knew this was coming.

[DKSuddeth]

iraqi protest

ABU GHRAIB, Iraq (Reuters) - Hundreds of Iraqis marched on Wednesday outside the walls of the military jail in Iraq where U.S. soldiers photographed themselves abusing Iraqi prisoners, and demanded the release of jailed relatives.
Protesters carrying Iraqi flags and placards reading in English "You have given a bad impression of America and Christians," gathered at the Abu Ghraib prison, infamous for torture under deposed Iraqi strongman Saddam Hussein.

Images released last week of U.S. troops abusing Iraqis in the jail have inflamed sentiment against the U.S.-led occupation of the country and left Washington scrambling to repair its image with Iraqis ahead of a formal handover of sovereignty.

Relatives of the nearly 4,000 Abu Ghraib prisoners who are among about 10,000 Iraqis held by occupying troops demanded they be set free immediately. Some said the images of soldiers forcing Iraqis to pose nude and simulate sex acts would draw retribution.

"They have taken five of my children. It's a crime," screamed one woman at a checkpoint outside the prison on the western outskirts of Baghdad, surrounded by blast barriers, razor wire and U.S. machine-gun posts atop the walls.

"These acts demand revenge and we hold you completely responsible," said a representative of the Association of Muslim Clerics, a Sunni Muslim group which has helped organize some of the protests which regularly demand the release of detainees.

The U.S. military, which has acknowledged at least two Iraqi detainees have been murdered by soldiers or contractors, has put a general who once ran its Guantanamo Bay prison camp in charge of reforming Iraq's military jails.

 

[insein]

yea i feared this as well. what with the round the clock coverage on Al jazeera and other Arab news networks over there, it probably has them worked into a frenzy.

 

[NewGuy]

Keep an eye in the rearview mirror for the EU.

 

[JIHADTHIS]

The fact that these pictures were taken (what genius had that great idea?):spank3: and then leaked out makes you wonder......

 

[DKSuddeth]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
The fact that these pictures were taken (what genius had that great idea?):spank3: and then leaked out makes you wonder......

makes me wonder what?

 

[JIHADTHIS]

Makes you wonder that in addition to being stupid enough to do the things depicted in the pics to POW's, that they actually documented it on film. What we were they thinking "gee my friends back home will get a kick out of this"

 

[nbdysfu]

The article claims:

"Images released last week of U.S. troops abusing Iraqis in the jail have inflamed sentiment against the U.S.-led occupation of the country and left Washington scrambling to repair its image with Iraqis ahead of a formal handover of sovereignty."

While the latter part of the argument is true, as Bush is planning on interviewing with Al-Arabiya, the former claim that Iraqi sentiment has been inflamed against the U.S. is hard to believe from the facts given in the article trying to prove what they are saying.



"Hundreds [the media rounds up] of Iraqis marched on Wednesday"
+
"Relatives of the nearly 4,000 [see] Abu Ghraib prisoners who are among about 10,000 Iraqis held by occupying troops demanded they be set free immediately."
=

For 4,000 prisoners at Abu Ghraib, a couple hundred or so marchers and a few relatives showed up. This does not equate to a representative sample of even a tenth of a percent of the Iraqi population. More like 0.001 percent of the population assuming an optimistic estimation of "hundreds."


And according to the next part the protests are nothing new, and nothing spontaneous:


""These acts demand revenge and we hold you completely responsible," said a representative of the Association of Muslim Clerics, a Sunni Muslim group which has helped organize some of the protests which regularly demand the release of detainees."

I think this is probably the most weakening statement in the article. As it states that these protests are routinely organized by the sunni Association of Muslim Clerics, which places doubt on wether the existence of the protest has anything to do with the recent release of the pictures, and further suggests that the protest is representative of the opinion of an organized lobbying group rather than Iraqis in general.


Call me doubting thomas. It just doesn't add up.

 

[Tippy Toes]

Originally posted by JIHADTHIS
Makes you wonder that in addition to being stupid enough to do the things depicted in the pics to POW's, that they actually documented it on film. What we were they thinking "gee my friends back home will get a kick out of this"

Yep, That's beyond stupid. Putting it on film has got to be way, way out there. I'm thinking mentally ill. Nobody ever wonders about obvious stuff like that. You could be mentally ill and be in the military, just like any other job.

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by Tippy Toes
Yep, That's beyond stupid. Putting it on film has got to be way, way out there. I'm thinking mentally ill. Nobody ever wonders about obvious stuff like that. You could be mentally ill and be in the military, just like any other job.

General George Casey was quoted in the Post today's as saying the actons of the guards and interrogators amounted to "a complete breakdown in discipline."

Regarding the photo's, Human Right's Watch, in a letter to Rice wrote: "The brazenness with which the US soldiers involved conducted themselves suggests they thought they had nothing to hide from their superiors."

I'm afraid that seems plausable to me.


As far as the mental fitness of the perpatrators goes, if any are found to be ill, then that should be a mitigating factor in their sentencing. But either way, the behavior is criminal, and should be treated as such.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by st8_o_mind
As far as the mental fitness of the perpatrators goes, if any are found to be ill, then that should be a mitigating factor in their sentencing. But either way, the behavior is criminal, and should be treated as such.

and they will. People act like this crime will go unpunished. Thats the difference between us and them. We punish our wrongdoers. We don't hold them up on a pedastal or just ignore them and hope they go away.

 

[st8_o_mind]

Originally posted by insein
and they will. People act like this crime will go unpunished. Thats the difference between us and them.

I think that might be a tough sell in Iraq. Many there will say that the abuse of prisoners has been going on for a long time and that the US is moving on this issue in response to the photo's, not to the crimes.


Perhaps we'll have to wait and see how the investigations play out.

But there are a couple of things I'm pretty sure of. One. This casts a shadow on the service of a heck of a lot of good soldiers that have served honorably.

Two. Rage over these revelations by the Iraqi's and others will get more American soldiers killed and wounded.

Three. The revelations undermine the mission of bringing about a stable democratic state in Iraq further delaying the day when US forces can come home. That's going to cost us in the blood of good American's that did not torture anyone, not to mention a lot of money out of the taxpayers pocket.

 

[insein]

Originally posted by st8_o_mind
I think that might be a tough sell in Iraq. Many there will say that the abuse of prisoners has been going on for a long time and that the US is moving on this issue in response to the photo's, not to the crimes.


Perhaps we'll have to wait and see how the investigations play out.

But there are a couple of things I'm pretty sure of. One. This casts a shadow on the service of a heck of a lot of good soldiers that have served honorably.

Two. Rage over these revelations by the Iraqi's and others will get more American soldiers killed and wounded.

Three. The revelations undermine the mission of bringing about a stable democratic state in Iraq further delaying the day when US forces can come home. That's going to cost us in the blood of good American's that did not torture anyone, not to mention a lot of money out of the taxpayers pocket.

I agree with all those points.