Killer sets trap, says its "stand your ground"

[Luddly Neddite]

Man Who Set A Trap To Kill 17-Year-Old Intruder Invokes Stand Your Ground-Like Defense | ThinkProgress

Seventeen-year-old Diren Dede lost his life Sunday, while in Missoula, Montana on a high school exchange program from Germany. He was shot dead at the home of Markus Kaarma, after Kaarma set a trap for intruders by intentionally leaving the garage open and placing a purse in clear view.

After motion sensors detected someone in the garage, Kaarma shot Dede. And while he has since been charged with first degree murder, he is already invoking a Stand Your Ground-like defense.

Kaarma is not the first to claim he was justified in killing someone after setting a trap. A Minnesota jury rejected Byron Smith’s argument that he was standing his ground when he made it look as though he wasn’t home, and waited in the basement with food and water until two teen intruders descended, and he shot them dead. Audio recorded by Smith depicted him toying with the victims after he shot them, according to the New York Daily News, saying “you’re dead.” He also likened them to “vermin.”

Like we didn't see this coming.

Its a shame that we value things more than we value human lives.

I don't want my belongings stolen but no way is my TV worth more than a human life.

 

[Katzndogz]

What a shame that these young people don't find staying alive worth more than stealing someone else's property.

 

[GHook93]

Man Who Set A Trap To Kill 17-Year-Old Intruder Invokes Stand Your Ground-Like Defense | ThinkProgress

Seventeen-year-old Diren Dede lost his life Sunday, while in Missoula, Montana on a high school exchange program from Germany. He was shot dead at the home of Markus Kaarma, after Kaarma set a trap for intruders by intentionally leaving the garage open and placing a purse in clear view.

After motion sensors detected someone in the garage, Kaarma shot Dede. And while he has since been charged with first degree murder, he is already invoking a Stand Your Ground-like defense.

Kaarma is not the first to claim he was justified in killing someone after setting a trap. A Minnesota jury rejected Byron Smith’s argument that he was standing his ground when he made it look as though he wasn’t home, and waited in the basement with food and water until two teen intruders descended, and he shot them dead. Audio recorded by Smith depicted him toying with the victims after he shot them, according to the New York Daily News, saying “you’re dead.” He also likened them to “vermin.”

Like we didn't see this coming.

Its a shame that we value things more than we value human lives.

I don't want my belongings stolen but no way is my TV worth more than a human life.

And guess what mental midget, stand your ground can't be used in this method. So go back to you coloring books!

Second, the the 1000th time, Zimmerman didn't use the stand your ground defense. He used the CLASSIC self-defense claim.

Third, AGAIN for the 1000th time. Stand your ground is a protection for innocent people in most HIGH crime areas. AKA Black inner city communities. Innocent blacks trying to protect their families benefit most from the logical stand your ground legislation!

 

[hjmick]

Lying in wait.


If people want to get away with it, they'll need to a better job of making it look like something else...

 

[eflatminor]

...he is already invoking a Stand Your Ground-like defense.

Soooo, NOT "stand your ground".

Got it.

 

[dr.d]

Sad...this is what "gun rule" leads to...and of course, all of these vics were unarmed...


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

 

[GHook93]

What the mental midget doesn't understand is that in order to use deadly force the age old requirement of being threatened with death or serious injury still applies. Even to stand your ground!

One of the exceptions in most states is the Castle rule, meaning you can use deadly force (in most states) if someone breaks into your home. However, in all cases you can't invite the person into your home. In this case, I guarantee setting a trap is going to be viewed as a type of twisted invitation and hence the castle rule will not apply!

 

[R.C. Christian]

He can't set booby traps. Doesn't count. He doesn't stand a chance but what is with German kids stealing shit?

 

[Yurt]

it is not stand your ground. the guy is a retard. so is luddly.

 

[theHawk]

The "kid" wasn't German, he is a second generation Turkish immigrant, which explains a lot.

He was probably the one that robbed the house before, which caused this guy to wait for him. You enter a garage in the middle of the night, you're just looking for trouble.

The "kid" was a thief, plain and simple. I'm certainly not going to shed any tears over a dead thief. I think Luddy's crocodile tears are enough.

 

[novasteve]

Why did the kid break into his house?

 

[PredFan]

Though I think that you shouldn't be allowed to set a trap for someone, I can't feel sorry for the perp.

 

[Avatar4321]

Lying in wait is not stand your ground. How do you know he was lying in wait? Was the other person armed at all? Why did he enter the garage? Just because you see something valuable lying there doesn't mean you go in and take it.

 

[MikeK]

Like we didn't see this coming.

Its a shame that we value things more than we value human lives.

I don't want my belongings stolen but no way is my TV worth more than a human life.

You're right about seeing it coming. Radical change in any long-held policy will always bring about some aberrant behaviors during the early stages of change. This particular incident has established that setting traps is not acceptable so it's very doubtful it will be happening again.

 

[Avatar4321]

The real question is why should we give up our right to defend ourselves because people murder others and falsely claim self defense?

 

[Defiant1]

So if you leave your garage door open, anyone now has a right to come in and steal whatever they can see.

And since you left the door open you can't defend yourself or your property.

What if it's half open?

 

[Vandalshandle]

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this guy's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

 

[eflatminor]

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this guy's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this thief's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

If...a big if...this guy "set a trap", that is indeed wrong, but let's not forget the motherfucker that was attempting take what didn't belong to him...m'kay?

 

[ogibillm]

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this guy's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this thief's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

If...a big if...this guy "set a trap", that is indeed wrong, but let's not forget the motherfucker that was attempting take what didn't belong to him...m'kay?

in the news stories you have no idea why the kid went into the garage. he may well have been intending to burglarize the place. he may not have.

the asshole that shot him didn't wait to see. he decided that he'd rather shoot an unarmed kid than lose... what exactly?

your material possessions are not worth the life of anyone.

 

[R.D.]

Something about this doesn't sound right

It was dark, so how did the purse being displayed even matter? And there was another kid who ran from the garage.

I'll wait for more details.