Justice for New Haven Firefighters

[Nik]

Just curious...how long did the blacks study?

Less than they should have.

Link?

 

[manifold]

Are you really this fucking stupid?

So you can't back up your claim with any evidence huh?

I guess maybe you shouldn't be demanding of others what you clearly cannot do yourself.

Its obvious moron. A higher percentage of Hispanics than whites speak spanish in the US. ?

Doesn't prove your claim.

And it's actually less obvious than concluding that the black firefighters didn't study enough for the exam. At least that is rooted in an actual test, with actual results.

 

[Nik]

Thankfully, 5 SC justices agree that this case of blatant racism wasn't just.

Blatant racism? Hardly.

So ... it's okay to discriminate against qualified personnel when they are white, but not unqualified personnel just because they are a "minority"?

Except that it was discrimination is speculation. Throwing out the test results of a discriminatory test isn't discrimination against the people who would have benefitted. Brown v. Board of Ed wasn't discrimination against whites.

 

[Nik]

So you can't back up your claim with any evidence huh?

I guess maybe you shouldn't be demanding of others what you clearly cannot do yourself.

Its obvious moron. A higher percentage of Hispanics than whites speak spanish in the US. ?

Doesn't prove your claim.

And it's actually less obvious than concluding that the black firefighters didn't study enough for the exam. At least that is rooted in an actual test, with actual results.

Sure. Because people do great on tests that they can't understand the language of....

 

[DiveCon]

Just curious...how long did the blacks study?

Less than they should have.

And your evidence?

they failed the tests

 

[Ravi]

The entire case seems to have been decided by SCOTUS based on sympathy for a dyslexic...kind of funny. Why would anyone want a dyslexic calling the shots in life or death matters?

And no, Willow, you flipping moron. None of the blacks or hispanics cried racism. Why don't you learn to read.

 

[manifold]

Just curious...how long did the blacks study?

Less than they should have.

Link?

I guess you're not familiar with the facts of this case. None of the black firefighters scored high enough to be promoted. You can start to educate yourself here:

Article - WSJ.com

 

[Nik]

Less than they should have.

Link?

I guess you're not familiar with the facts of this case. None of the black firefighters scored high enough to be promoted. You can start to educate yourself here:

Article - WSJ.com

Not what I asked for a link for. You claimed they studies less than they should have. I want a link to that.

 

[KittenKoder]

Blatant racism? Hardly.

So ... it's okay to discriminate against qualified personnel when they are white, but not unqualified personnel just because they are a "minority"?

Except that it was discrimination is speculation. Throwing out the test results of a discriminatory test isn't discrimination against the people who would have benefitted. Brown v. Board of Ed wasn't discrimination against whites.

Prove that a test can be discriminatory ... and test results themselves are not proof. Proof would be showing a question that is truly "racist" ... still waiting for that.

 

[Father Time]

Does anyone have any actual evidence that the tests were racist? More importantly does New Haven have any evidence?

Its called racially disparate results.

And how the hell is that evidence?

Oh and can you prove that those results can't happen in a small sample size on their own?

 

[manifold]

Its obvious moron. A higher percentage of Hispanics than whites speak spanish in the US. ?

Doesn't prove your claim.

And it's actually less obvious than concluding that the black firefighters didn't study enough for the exam. At least that is rooted in an actual test, with actual results.

Sure. Because people do great on tests that they can't understand the language of....

So you think the black firefighters don't understand English and the test should have adminstered in ebonics? That actually sounds rather racist dude, seriously.

 

[Navy1960]

"Fear of litigation alone cannot justify an employer's reliance on race to the detriment of individuals who passed the examinations and qualified for promotions," Justice Anthony Kennedy said in his opinion for the court. He was joined by Chief Justice John Roberts and Justices Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas.

When someone takes an exam be it for a promotion, or for hiring purposes, no matter what the reason. That person should be judged on the merits of the exam itself and not on the conditions that brought them to the exam in the first place nor the color of their skin. The SCOTUS today by overturning, what was a terrible decision to begin with, corrected an issue not only for the New Haven Firefighters , but what I am sure is an issue for many like them around the nation. The words, shall not discriminate based on race, creed, sex, national origin, or sexual orientation should mean exactly what it says and should not be one set of rules for one group and one set of rules for another.

 

[manifold]

Link?

I guess you're not familiar with the facts of this case. None of the black firefighters scored high enough to be promoted. You can start to educate yourself here:

Article - WSJ.com

Not what I asked for a link for. You claimed they studies less than they should have. I want a link to that.

They scored poorly. Conclusion: They didn't study enough.

You're welcome to disagree. It's not like you risk looking like a bigger retard or anything.

 

[Ravi]

I guess you're not familiar with the facts of this case. None of the black firefighters scored high enough to be promoted. You can start to educate yourself here:

Article - WSJ.com

Not what I asked for a link for. You claimed they studies less than they should have. I want a link to that.

They scored poorly. Conclusion: They didn't study enough.

You're welcome to disagree. It's not like you risk looking like a bigger retard or anything.

Not too long ago you were claiming blacks were stupider than whites because they scored badly on tests. Now it is merely their study habits?

 

[manifold]

Not too long ago you were claiming blacks were stupider than whites because they scored badly on tests. Now it is merely their study habits?

Link?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Amount of studying does NOT always equate to success. I guarantee you that.

is it so hard to accept that some people simply perform better than others?

or is it easier to cry racism when someone fails?

It is hard to accept that people perform better on certain tests because they are white, yes.

not so in this case. the same study material was available to all participants. the only difference is that some mastered the material and some didn't

 

[Soaring]

Affirmative Action (in my opinion) goes against the equal protection and privilege and immunities clause. However, I know why affirmative action was enacted and I 100% agree that, at the time, it was necessary.

I do NOT agree with you. In fact I strongly disagree with you, that there can be discrimination in the work place (whether it be hiring or firing!). In fact those comments you spewed are utterly ignorant and arrogant. As a fellow Jew I am embarrassed by it! As a Jew I am shocked you could take such a stance! Anti-semitism is ever prevalent! You don't think it can't be turned to where rednecks, White religious bigots, far lefist who call themselves "anti-zionist, Blacks, Latinos, Arabs or just good old fashion Jew-haters turn and say "oh I will never high a Jew under any circumstances," do you? It can I am so glad the the 14th amendment has the P & I and Equal Protection clauses to prevent this! Not hiring someone because of race, religion, color, nation origin, familial status, age, sex or sexual orientation is just as bad as firing them for it!

To give minorities special treatment for being minorities is quite disgusting. I have never, EVER agreed with affirmative action. Everyone talks about the starting point for black people being well behind that of white people... well there are pieces of white trash out there with absolutely no potential whatsoever and there are rich black people out there as well. If the black community would stop spending so much time saying "We're black - you have to give us special treatment because we're black" and start saying "We're black, we should be treated equally and we are going to work just as hard as white people and we're going to create our own opportunities just like white people do." They need to stop this whole "entitlement" attitude and start working on themselves and providing for themselves as a community. There's nothing wrong with having cultural pride, but I find the way that many, not all, but many people in the black community walk around and think the world owes them because of how their ancestors were treated is absolute shit.

If I run a private corporation and it's my business and I only want to hire white Jews, it's my perogative. The government should not tell me who I can and cannot hire. BUT - if I fire someone because of their race... then, well that's a different story.

I have to agree, and in some points disagree, with the both of you to some extent.

First David, it is wrong to give minorities special treatment simply because they are minorities. However, blacks especially, but others to varying degrees, are starting from deeper in the hole than whites and the reasoning behind Affirmative Action is justifiable although I think today is causes more problems than it solves.

I agree that a change in attitude might serve them better than the entitlement attitude many are using today. Better to take control of your own lives than let someone else spoon feed you if you ask me.

And GHook is right, discrimination can take place in the decisions to hire as well as the decision to fire and it is wrong in both cases. It would be wrong for me not to hire a black man who is qualified for the job simply because he is black or a woman or someone of Jewish decent, but that happens in today's society and it should be combated by the government wherever it is prevalent. Such ignorance must be fought against.

I'm against quotas both required and perceived, but, racist ignorance is inbred and extremely difficult to wipe out... much like a colony of cockroaches in a home; without constant treatment tha colony will not be defeated and keeps coming back, racism is no different.

Immie

Immie, maybe we should lay down the rules about what is discrimination in the workplace, and what is not discrimination. If I own my own shop, I can hire anybody I wish, and don't have to give a reason for not hiring any person to anyone, including any government official. Where the minorities are to be treated differently, is in the public sector of jobs. That includes the military, the government service, all schools, hospitals, teachers, firefighters, etc. Now, that to me is discriminatory toward white people, because it gives the minorities more leverage, and leverage that they no longer need because our society has changed so drastically since the 60's. Minorities have the exact same oppportunity to improve themselves as do whites. In fact in many cases they have more opportunities to improve themselves than whites. I think the SCOTUS made the right decision, and I hope from this decision that minorities will no longer have the leverage they have had in the past.

 

[WillowTree]

The entire case seems to have been decided by SCOTUS based on sympathy for a dyslexic...kind of funny. Why would anyone want a dyslexic calling the shots in life or death matters?

And no, Willow, you flipping moron. None of the blacks or hispanics cried racism. Why don't you learn to read.

they sure did ravibabid

 

[Nik]

So ... it's okay to discriminate against qualified personnel when they are white, but not unqualified personnel just because they are a "minority"?

Except that it was discrimination is speculation. Throwing out the test results of a discriminatory test isn't discrimination against the people who would have benefitted. Brown v. Board of Ed wasn't discrimination against whites.

Prove that a test can be discriminatory ... and test results themselves are not proof. Proof would be showing a question that is truly "racist" ... still waiting for that.

Again, tell me why Hispanics would do so much better than white Americans on a spanish language test....

And you are changing the goalposts, liar.

 

[Nik]

Does anyone have any actual evidence that the tests were racist? More importantly does New Haven have any evidence?

Its called racially disparate results.

And how the hell is that evidence?

Oh and can you prove that those results can't happen in a small sample size on their own?

Its EVIDENCE, not PROOF. Surely you understand the difference, yes?