Judge States Traditional Marriage Was Polygamy

[USNavyVet]

Traditions are also cultural norms and there is no evidence that polygamy was ever a norm. It was something the wealthy could afford to do. Reading about it in a history book doesn't make it traditional.

What about the Bible?


Have you never read the Holy Bible?



Yes -- reading about something that was widely practiced does make once a TRADITION.

Who says it was widely practiced? Only the wealthy had multiple wives.

 

[DaGoose]

People should be able to have as many wives (or husbands) as they want. As long as all parties agree, what is the problem?

The problem is Neo-Conservatives who believe that THEY should decide what is right and moral for everyone and want to control every aspect of people's private lives and decisions.

.

 

[Zombie_Pundit]

Fortunately no one is arguing that homosexual marriages are any kind of tradition.

They don't have to. Tradition by itself is not a relevant argument for or against anything.

Well yeah actually it is. It's sometimes called "precedent".

The relevant precedent is Baker v Nelson. The current reading among these federal justices is that U.S. v. Winsdor overturns Baker v Nelson. They may not be wrong.

If you want to impose some burden of proof on those who want to break with your punitively "traditional" definition of religion, that's fine. These cases are heading to SCOTUS much sooner than later. I'm sure a few justices there will exact such a burden.
Wisconsin latest state where judge strikes same-sex marriage ban - CNN.com

 

[peach174]

Christians were doing it wa-aaay before Muslims.


Know your history.

Jewish Christians were, but it finally became even with them, that marriage is between one man and one woman by the 3rd and 4th centuries.

Tertullian who lived at the turn of the 2nd and 3rd centuries, wrote that marriage is lawful, but polygamy is not:

"We do not indeed forbid the union of man and woman, blest by God as the seminary of the human race, and devised for the replenishment of the earth and the furnishing of the world and therefore permitted, yet singly. For Adam was the one husband of Eve, and Eve his one wife, one woman, one rib.

Tertullian was appointed and ratified for the Supreme Court when?

Almost no good Catholics care today what the good Holy Father had to say.

Now you bring in America?
Talk about deflecting.
hazlnut was talking about Christians before the Muslims.

 

[USNavyVet]

This is a secular nation based on human rights, not Christian theocratic authority.

Our official Motto is "In God We Trust".
We have never been a Secular Nation, we have always had God in our Government with opening prayer each day in the House, Senate and Supreme Court ever since we became the United States of America.

This Judge should not be ruling for Muslim theocratic polygamy.

Christians were doing it wa-aaay before Muslims.

Know your history.

What Christians were polygamists? Maybe the Mormons if they can be considered Christian. Anyone else?

 

[Papageorgio]

Good question. The answer seems to be that traditionalists(conservatives) like peeping into peoples' bedrooms.

I'm not sure what you answer has to do with anything. If this judge is claiming polygamy is traditional then why is it illegal? She should take the next step and legalize polygamy in the state of Wisconsin.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.

yes she should, what consenting adults do is really none of our business.

I totally agree and if you want a civil union with 100 women or your brother or mother or sister or father, it is all consenting adults. Marriage is a religious arrangement, civil unions are a government issue. If you want a marriage and not have the government involved, more power to you.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Native Americans came from Eastern Countries.
Polygamy was outlawed here in the States in 1878.
Most Countries have it outlawed;
The vast Majorities of Countries have it outlawed.
The Countries in Black still allow it. Most of them all Muslim.

Why is this Country embracing Muslim traditions instead of Christian traditions?
Why is this Nation wanting to go backwards to the 7th century Muslim traditions?

This is a secular nation based on human rights, not Christian theocratic authority.

Our official Motto is "In God We Trust".
We have never been a Secular Nation, we have always had God in our Government with opening prayer each day in the House, Senate and Supreme Court ever since we became the United States of America.

This Judge should not be ruling for Muslim theocratic polygamy.

Well at least one poster here is happy to believe that the US is a Christian theocracy. I suspect most so-called Conservative Christians either agree, or they simply wish we were a Christian theocracy,

as appalling an idea that should be to anyone with any appreciation for our Constitution.

 

[NYcarbineer]

She actually makes a good point.....

Federal Judge To Wisconsin: You Know 'Traditional' Marriage Was Polygamy, Right?

The federal judge who struck down Wisconsin's gay marriage ban thinks state officials have a thing or two to learn about the history of marriage as a social institution.

"As an initial matter, defendants and amici have overstated their argument. Throughout history, the most 'traditional' form of marriage has not been between one man and one woman, but between one man and multiple women, which presumably is not a tradition that defendants and amici would like to continue," Crabb wrote in her opinion.

This is one smart lady!!

Federal Judge To Wisconsin: You Know 'Traditional' Marriage Was Polygamy, Right?

.

She based her ruling on exactly the same arguments I have made for years, so yes, she is one smart lady.

lol

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Another worthless idiot. Polygamy was never the norm.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Fallacy: Appeal to Tradition



Also Known as: Appeal to the Old, Old Ways are Best, Fallacious Appeal to the Past, Appeal to Age

Description of Appeal to Tradition

Appeal to Tradition is a fallacy that occurs when it is assumed that something is better or correct simply because it is older, traditional, or "always has been done." This sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

1.X is old or traditional
2.Therefore X is correct or better.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because the age of something does not automatically make it correct or better than something newer. This is made quite obvious by the following example: The theory that witches and demons cause disease is far older than the theory that microrganisms cause diseases. Therefore, the theory about witches and demons must be true.

This sort of "reasoning" is appealing for a variety of reasons. First, people often prefer to stick with what is older or traditional. This is a fairly common psychological characteristic of people which may stem from the fact that people feel more comfortable about what has been around longer. Second, sticking with things that are older or traditional is often easier than testing new things. Hence, people often prefer older and traditional things out of laziness. Hence, Appeal to Tradition is a somewhat common fallacy.

Fallacy: Appeal to Tradition

 

[hazlnut]

Our official Motto is "In God We Trust".
We have never been a Secular Nation, we have always had God in our Government with opening prayer each day in the House, Senate and Supreme Court ever since we became the United States of America.

This Judge should not be ruling for Muslim theocratic polygamy.

Christians were doing it wa-aaay before Muslims.


Know your history.

Jewish Christians were, but it finally became even with them, that marriage is between one man and one woman by the 3rd and 4th centuries.

Tertullian who lived at the turn of the 2nd and 3rd centuries, wrote that marriage is lawful, but polygamy is not:

"We do not indeed forbid the union of man and woman, blest by God as the seminary of the human race, and devised for the replenishment of the earth and the furnishing of the world and therefore permitted, yet singly. For Adam was the one husband of Eve, and Eve his one wife, one woman, one rib.

As soon as you bring up Adam and Eve you loose al credibility -- they are made up characters in a story. A Hebrew fairy told around the camp fire in the desert -- oral tradition.

 

[hazlnut]

Another worthless idiot. Polygamy was never the norm.

Guess you've never read the bible or studied history.

Did you graduate high school?


Should we assume you're the worthless idiot?

 

[hazlnut]

Our official Motto is "In God We Trust".
We have never been a Secular Nation, we have always had God in our Government with opening prayer each day in the House, Senate and Supreme Court ever since we became the United States of America.

This Judge should not be ruling for Muslim theocratic polygamy.

Christians were doing it wa-aaay before Muslims.

Know your history.

What Christians were polygamists? Maybe the Mormons if they can be considered Christian. Anyone else?

Middle Ages:

In the medieval period, multiple wives were often obtained through kidnapping. It is with this in view that we must interpret the following laws: The Frankish Laws of 818-9 strictly forbade kidnapping of women.[33] The XXVII. law issued by King Stephen I of Hungary (1000–1030) declares that the kidnapper must return the woman to her parents even if he has had sexual intercourse with her, and must pay a penalty to the parents. According to the Hungarian law, the kidnapped girl was then free to marry whomever.[33]

The Roman councils of 1052 and 1063 suspended from communion those laymen who had a wife and a concubine at the same time.[34] Divorce was also forbidden, and remarriage after a divorce counted as polygamy. Nicholas the Great (858-67) forbade Lothair II of Lotharingia to divorce his barren wife Teutberga and marry his concubine Waldrada, with whom he had several children. After a council of the Lotharingian bishops, as well as the archbishop of Köln and Trier had annulled his marriage to Theutberga, the pope voided this decision, and made him take his wife back.[35][36]

In Scandinavia, the word for an official concubine was "frille". Norwegian Bishop Øystein Erlendsson (ca. 1120-1188) declared that concubines were not allowed to accept the sacraments unless they married, and men were forced to promise marriage to women they had lain with outside of wedlock. In 1280, the Norwegian king Eirik Magnusson (1280–99) declared that men were exempted from having to promise marriage to the frille, if they went to confession and did penance. The Church answered by making several declarations in the 14th century, urging men to marry their concubines. In 1305, King Håkon V (1299–1319) issued a law that declared marriage to be the only lawful way of cohabitation, and declared that only women in wedlock were allowed to dress as they pleased, while the dress of concubines was restricted.

Reformation period:

While monogamy was the norm among Christians,[38][39] in the 16th century there was a Christian re-examination of plural marriages. The founder of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther wrote: "I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter."[40]

 

[JakeStarkey]

Then this Judge should not be ruling for Muslim theocratic polygamy.

The judge is ruling for all of us, Peach. Tis what tis.

The social con far right outcasts no longer dictate marriage law.

No she isn't. she is ruling for a small minority that wants immorality.
This nation has been going down this road since the 1960's and we have continued to go downhill as a nation.
Children having sex at 11 and 12 years old. Children having children.
Mass Murder's has risen since the 1990's.
God taken out of our schools.
Government debt at 17 Trillion.
We have the most devise President we have ever had.

The standards people have when differentiating between right and wrong and good and bad. Values people have include things such as honesty, compassion, courage, integrity, fairness and respect.
We no longer have these.

Your vision of America is rejected by the majority that want marriage equality

Your vision of America is overwhelmingly rejected by the millenials.

None of the stuff above you mention has anything to do with marriage equality.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Traditions are also cultural norms and there is no evidence that polygamy was ever a norm. It was something the wealthy could afford to do. Reading about it in a history book doesn't make it traditional.

Once again you make an opinion statement and that it is factual evidence. You are wrong.

I'm still waiting for you to make a point.

When you actually make a point to which I can respond, I will.

Your opinion, son, is not evidence. Do you understand that?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Who says it was widely practiced? Only the wealthy had multiple wives.

You said it wasn't. That's only an opinion. No one has to refute it until you offer evidence for it. You have not done that.

When a debater calls for an opinion to be refuted by the opponent is an admission of loss.

 

[hazlnut]

Christians complain about the "cafeteria Christian" who pick and choose what they will follow and believe.

To those critical hollier than thou types I say: When was the last time you went to a stoning? How many slaves to you own?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jewish Christians were, but it finally became even with them, that marriage is between one man and one woman by the 3rd and 4th centuries.

Tertullian who lived at the turn of the 2nd and 3rd centuries, wrote that marriage is lawful, but polygamy is not:

"We do not indeed forbid the union of man and woman, blest by God as the seminary of the human race, and devised for the replenishment of the earth and the furnishing of the world and therefore permitted, yet singly. For Adam was the one husband of Eve, and Eve his one wife, one woman, one rib.

Tertullian was appointed and ratified for the Supreme Court when?

Almost no good Catholics care today what the good Holy Father had to say.

Now you bring in America?
Talk about deflecting.
hazlnut was talking about Christians before the Muslims.

Muslims, Tertullian, you, and everyone else has offered nothing to the point other than opinion.

Which is good, but not evidentiary.

SCOTUS is going to decide on Windsor. Sil and buds are terrified of the probable ruling.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Our official Motto is "In God We Trust".
We have never been a Secular Nation, we have always had God in our Government with opening prayer each day in the House, Senate and Supreme Court ever since we became the United States of America.

This Judge should not be ruling for Muslim theocratic polygamy.

Christians were doing it wa-aaay before Muslims.

Know your history.

What Christians were polygamists? Maybe the Mormons if they can be considered Christian. Anyone else?

You are illiterate on the subject.

https://www.google.com/#q=Christian+polygamy

Look it up. Study the history.

 

[Papageorgio]

The judge is ruling for all of us, Peach. Tis what tis.

The social con far right outcasts no longer dictate marriage law.

No she isn't. she is ruling for a small minority that wants immorality.
This nation has been going down this road since the 1960's and we have continued to go downhill as a nation.
Children having sex at 11 and 12 years old. Children having children.
Mass Murder's has risen since the 1990's.
God taken out of our schools.
Government debt at 17 Trillion.
We have the most devise President we have ever had.

The standards people have when differentiating between right and wrong and good and bad. Values people have include things such as honesty, compassion, courage, integrity, fairness and respect.
We no longer have these.

Your vision of America is rejected by the majority that want marriage equality

Your vision of America is overwhelmingly rejected by the millenials.

None of the stuff above you mention has anything to do with marriage equality.

The marriage equality has passed in only three states, not sure if the majority is for marriage equality.


Sent from my iPad using an Android.