Judge says he can order abortion for disabled Nevada woman

[Cecilie1200]

Terri Schiavo had a brain that had turned to mush. She was on life support, and that life support was her feeding tube. If her family wanted to pay millions to ensure she remained a vegetable for the rest of her life, good luck to them, but if the taxpayers are expected to foot the bill to keep someone like that alive, the taxpayers can, and should, fight to pull the plug.

When did you graduate from med school?

Have you not read the autopsy reports?

Yes. They made no mention of "mush", or Grandma's equally low-class and callous word, "jello". They said she was severely brain-damaged, which no one has ever disputed. I assume this bare, factual use of terminology is owing to the facts that the pathologist 1) graduated medical school, unlike you, and 2) isn't a disgusting, crass juvenile, unlike you.

Also back in the land of facts, Terry Schiavo's brain, as severely damaged as it was, was still capable of operating her basic body systems. Her heart continued to beat, her lungs continued to breathe, she continued to process the nutrition provided. The fact that it was provided through a tube, rather than by her grabbing a knife and fork, does not make her, as Grandma also charmingly put it, "a dead woman".

 

[Cecilie1200]

She has the mental age of a six year old. She thinks and acts like a six year old. Do you treat a six year old child like they are 34 years old?

Damn, you are an idiot.

The story says the parents claim she has the mental capacity of a 6 year old, there is significant difference between mental capacity and mental age. There are kids in college with the mental capacity of adults, but they still have the mental age of how old they are. If she had the mental age of a 6 year old she would be unable to remember anything from longer than 6 years ago.

She still shouldn't remain pregnant.
Its a wonder her parents didn't force her to confess to her sins of having premarital sex.

When did it become YOUR decision whether she "shouldn't" remain pregnant? For someone who professes a horror of pro-lifers "trying to control women's bodies", you sure are quick with the fucking pronouncements about what should be done with someone else's body when it suits you. What happened to "a private medical decision"?

Oh, wait, I know. That's all bullshit when the "private medical decision" involves religious people and might result in that nightmarish childbirth thing, right? Religious people shouldn't have any rights. That's only for people who are smart enough to understand the desirability of the all-holy abortion, as laid down by Noomi.

Why don't you just go whole hog and get a neon sign over your head that reads, "Hypocrite!"? It's about that obvious right now, anyway.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Mental disable women should be allowed to be ordered abortions from Judges. Period.

Why? Especially if they have family. Do you think "next of kin" counts for nothing?

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

Are you serious? The people whose lives are actually affected by a decision should have no part in the decision BECAUSE they're affected by it? Really?! THAT is the position you're going to take?

I can't help but wonder if you're just THAT fanatically determined that pregnancies should end in abortion, or you're just so utterly lacking in anyone who gives a tin shit if you live or die that you can't comprehend the monstrous inhumanity that you represent.

There are just no words to express my utter revulsion at the fact that you exist and are allowed to masquerade as a human being.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why? Especially if they have family. Do you think "next of kin" counts for nothing?

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

Strange, the law actually says that family has the right to make medical decisions for other family members when they are incapacitated. In fact, that is exactly that happened in the Terry Shicalvo case you like to pretend you are an authority on, the judge ruled that the husband, being the closest family member, had the right to make medical decisions.

You are contradicting yourself.

What's REALLY strange - other than the fact that Noomi Frankenstein here doesn't have a torch-bearing mob outside her house - is that if the law where she lived was changed to prohibit abortion, her love affair with the idea of complete strangers in robes making personal decisions about abortion would evaporate. THEN we'd be back to "keep your laws off my body!" Go check her out in the thread about the woman in Ireland who died because the doctors weren't clear on whether aborting her child was legal. She sure as shit doesn't think THAT decision should have been made according to the laws, or by anyone other than the woman.

I wonder what it's like to be a screaming hypocrite, but I shall never know, since I shall never be a leftist.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

They are also the people who know you best, and would know what you'd want best.

What about those parents who go against their childs' wishes to donate their organs? Even if you are on the donor list, the parents are free to override that decision.
Doesn't sound like the parents know you, or care for your wishes in this instance.

What about it? That argues for better communication between family members, or being smart enough to give medical power of attorney to someone trustworthy. It doesn't argue for making everyone wards of the state.

Doesn't sound like YOU have any human relationships.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Have you not read the autopsy reports?

I don't pretend to have graduated from med school, unlike you.

I do know that people that can breathe are not on life support.

She couldn't feed herself, could she? Remove the feeding tube, and what happens? Oh yeah, she died. So the feeding tube was a kind of life support.

Yeah, well, if I cut off your hands, you can't feed yourself and starve to death, too. Does that make your hands "life support"? Your knife and fork?

I realize you can't help being evil, but do you have to be stupid, too?

 

[Cecilie1200]

Why? Especially if they have family. Do you think "next of kin" counts for nothing?

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

They could be influenced by greed as well.


BTW in my experience family members are influenced by the best interests of the person who entrusted them to make the decision in the first place.

Depends on the individual people in question. That's probably why the blanket, "one size fits all" solutions simpleminded liberals love so much work so badly.

I can only assume Noomi Frankenstein thinks that judges are computers, rather than human beings themselves.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

So if you mother is dying and an operation can save her, and you are an adult and her closest relative, you should have no say, the doctors should get a court order for an operation?

You don't think I have a right to make decisions for my nearly 25 year old severely autistic adult son? You think a court should come in and decide whether or not the meds recommended by the psychiatrist are good for him? Or do you think the hospital should decide? Or his caregivers? Do you think I should have let them give my son seizure medication when his stupid caregiver decided he had a seizure and took him to the hospital? He's never had a seizure in his life. He was tested for that when he was a kid. What happened was a panic attack that the caregiver didn't recognize. You don't think I know what is best for my own son? That the courts should decide? BTW, I talked to the doctor and he agreed to wait and see if he had another seizure. He hasn't and it's been nearly a year. There WAS NO SEIZURE, but if you had your way, he'd be on seizure medication, because of course, the parents have no rights and shouldn't make decisions. They might let their religion get in their way. Yeah right. If my son was a girl and got pregnant, I'm not sure what I would do, but I sure as hell wouldn't want some court making that decision for my son (daughter).

Please Noomi, have your mother make a living will, right now, so that her life will not be in the hands of the courts. You don't think you can make a good decision on her medical needs, have her make them now and give medical power of attorney to someone she trusts who isn't you.

I should be more specific.

I think that sometimes, people can be irrational, and make choices based on their emotions, which is not good. In those cases, if a doctor noticed and didn't believe the family were making an informed decision, the choice could then be taken out of the hands of family.
If the family was deliberately going against the wishes of the ill person, then the courts should certainly take over.

From my "Evil Liberal-to-English" dictionary:

Irrational - not conforming to liberal morality
Based on their emotions - not endorsing abortion or euthanasia
Not good - the baby lived
Informed decision - agreeing with Noomi
The wishes of the ill person - whatever allows for court-ordered death, regardless of whether or not it can be proven

I hope this has helped.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So if you mother is dying and an operation can save her, and you are an adult and her closest relative, you should have no say, the doctors should get a court order for an operation?

You don't think I have a right to make decisions for my nearly 25 year old severely autistic adult son? You think a court should come in and decide whether or not the meds recommended by the psychiatrist are good for him? Or do you think the hospital should decide? Or his caregivers? Do you think I should have let them give my son seizure medication when his stupid caregiver decided he had a seizure and took him to the hospital? He's never had a seizure in his life. He was tested for that when he was a kid. What happened was a panic attack that the caregiver didn't recognize. You don't think I know what is best for my own son? That the courts should decide? BTW, I talked to the doctor and he agreed to wait and see if he had another seizure. He hasn't and it's been nearly a year. There WAS NO SEIZURE, but if you had your way, he'd be on seizure medication, because of course, the parents have no rights and shouldn't make decisions. They might let their religion get in their way. Yeah right. If my son was a girl and got pregnant, I'm not sure what I would do, but I sure as hell wouldn't want some court making that decision for my son (daughter).

Please Noomi, have your mother make a living will, right now, so that her life will not be in the hands of the courts. You don't think you can make a good decision on her medical needs, have her make them now and give medical power of attorney to someone she trusts who isn't you.

I should be more specific.

I think that sometimes, people can be irrational, and make choices based on their emotions, which is not good. In those cases, if a doctor noticed and didn't believe the family were making an informed decision, the choice could then be taken out of the hands of family.
If the family was deliberately going against the wishes of the ill person, then the courts should certainly take over.

An Advance Directive(Living Will) is very clear as to what should be carried out at the appropriate time. There is a copy of the AD with the hospital as well.

Don't be silly. The CORRECT method is to pass a bunch of laws restricting people's freedoms, make no effort to take personal responsibility for your own life and wishes, and then use the resulting inevitable legal mess and confusion to impose even more restrictions on people's freedoms.

The preparing of an Advance Directive would require people like Noomi to get off their dead, state-diapered asses and do something for themselves, and we can't have that.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I don't pretend to have graduated from med school, unlike you.

I do know that people that can breathe are not on life support.

She couldn't feed herself, could she? Remove the feeding tube, and what happens? Oh yeah, she died. So the feeding tube was a kind of life support.

Christopher Reeve couldn't feed himself either, what's your point?

Obviously, her point is that people like Christopher Reeve and Stephen Hawking are dead, and should have their feeding tubes removed so they can lie down and rot like proper corpses.

Of course, Christopher Reeve is dead now by EVERYONE's standards, but let's not confuse the issue.

 

[Cecilie1200]

So how is this woman going to feel when she gives birth, only to have her baby ripped away from her? What sort of parents are these that they would give away their grandchild? Have they even explained to her that she cannot keep her baby, that she is only keeping it 'safe' for a short time? Does this woman even understand?

How is this woman going to feel when she's dragged into a room, stuck in the stirrups, and her baby is ripped OUT of her? What sort of parent are YOU, that you're actually sitting there thinking, "Only monsters would give away their grandchild? GOOD people would KILL their grandchild instead?" NOW you've . . . what? Decided that anyone who puts their child up for adoption, instead of aborting him, is evil?

Tell me, oh moral guru, how YOU would go about explaining to her that she cannot keep her baby OR keep it safe, that Mom and Dad have decided to kill him instead?

I am starting to come top some extremely disturbing conclusions about Noomi. I truly think the woman might be psychotic.

I was going with "stupid as a stump, and frighteningly evil". She might also be mentally ill, for all I know. I wouldn't rule it out.

Every time I read her posts, I wonder if that's what it was like for John Wayne Gacy's or Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors when they talked to them, before the cops found the body parts.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Terri Schiavo had a brain that had turned to mush. She was on life support, and that life support was her feeding tube. If her family wanted to pay millions to ensure she remained a vegetable for the rest of her life, good luck to them, but if the taxpayers are expected to foot the bill to keep someone like that alive, the taxpayers can, and should, fight to pull the plug.

You will excuse me, I hope, if I stick to facts, rather than your so-charmingly juvenile and crass commentary. She was NOT on life support, because a feeding tube is not "life support", any more than dialysis is for someone in kidney failure. You may assume that my instruction to Grandma vis a vis smearing, smudging, and confusing reality in order to conform to her ignorance also applies to you.

And when I want to hear your dumb foreign ass commenting on what AMERICAN taxpayers do and don't pay for . . . well, I shall never want to do that, so never mind.

Then what would you call a feeding tube dumbfuck? Life assist?

Noomi's foreign ass is 1000% smarter than your American brain.

I call it "medical treatment", just like I do dialysis.

Even if Noomi was a regular human being with more than two living brain cells - which she manifestly is not - I still wouldn't give a fuck what she thinks about American taxpayers. The fact that she's the biggest poster child I've ever seen for humanitarian euthanasia just means I DOUBLY don't give a fuck.

And since I know you're too pig-stupid to figure this out without being told, I view you in exactly the same light that I do Noomi, with the exception that I'm still iffy on whether or not YOU have someone imprisoned in your basement, and I'm fairly sure Noomi Dahmer does.

 

[Cecilie1200]

You will excuse me, I hope, if I stick to facts, rather than your so-charmingly juvenile and crass commentary. She was NOT on life support, because a feeding tube is not "life support", any more than dialysis is for someone in kidney failure. You may assume that my instruction to Grandma vis a vis smearing, smudging, and confusing reality in order to conform to her ignorance also applies to you.

And when I want to hear your dumb foreign ass commenting on what AMERICAN taxpayers do and don't pay for . . . well, I shall never want to do that, so never mind.

Then what would you call a feeding tube dumbfuck? Life assist?

Noomi's foreign ass is 1000% smarter than your American brain.

I was in a hospital a few years ago when they installed a feeding tube in my roommate. I don't know all the reasons they elected to do this, I do know that he was able to walk and talk, and that he was even able to feed himself.

My father had one, too, about a year before he passed away. The muscles in his esophagus didn't work properly to allow him to swallow. Amazingly enough, we did NOT take this as a sign that he was dead and should be abandoned. And fortunately, Noomi Bundy wasn't making the laws in Arizona at that time, so no judge stepped in to take the decision away from us for fear that we loved him too much and were irrationally letting that influence us.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Then what would you call a feeding tube dumbfuck? Life assist?

Noomi's foreign ass is 1000% smarter than your American brain.

I was in a hospital a few years ago when they installed a feeding tube in my roommate. I don't know all the reasons they elected to do this, I do know that he was able to walk and talk, and that he was even able to feed himself.

My father had one, too, about a year before he passed away. The muscles in his esophagus didn't work properly to allow him to swallow. Amazingly enough, we did NOT take this as a sign that he was dead and should be abandoned. And fortunately, Noomi Bundy wasn't making the laws in Arizona at that time, so no judge stepped in to take the decision away from us for fear that we loved him too much and were irrationally letting that influence us.

Now that you mention it, it was something like that. I also remember his family coming to visit every day, even after they installed the tube. I wonder why they did that since he was on life support and couldn't be expected to live.

 

[freedombecki]

Why? Especially if they have family. Do you think "next of kin" counts for nothing?

I do not think family members should be making health care decisions for adults, or for those people who cannot make their own decisions. They can be influenced by religious beliefs, and grief.

They could be influenced by greed as well.


BTW in my experience family members are influenced by the best interests of the person who entrusted them to make the decision in the first place.

Somewhere earlier someone mentioned that her parents' religious faith is Catholic and that they oppose her getting an abortion. I know some Catholics who think abortion is the mortal sin of murder. In their mind, an abortion is not about greed, it is about God knowing that unborn child who is in the womb according to scripture and church canons based on scripture.

For that reason, I'm siding with the parents, even though the Judge may be technically correct, and the parents may have overlooked some paperwork about their guardianship, but I'm still with the parents who love their daughter very much and just want her soul safe by them doing the right thing in opposing what they may feel to be spiritually damaging things to their child.

For the record, I'm not Roman Catholic, and I'm not a fundamentalist or a fanatic.

Either government is for the people it governs or it isn't. A state that has turned over parental guardianship either accommodates family religious mores or it doesn't. Why should they allow some judge to make a name for himself out of ambition to be named to a higher court, for example, than to allow the family to make decisions in their daughter's future.

The abortion issue is such a hot potato, I would be inclined for a state to stay away from it and let the right people decide--her family they picked for her.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I was in a hospital a few years ago when they installed a feeding tube in my roommate. I don't know all the reasons they elected to do this, I do know that he was able to walk and talk, and that he was even able to feed himself.

My father had one, too, about a year before he passed away. The muscles in his esophagus didn't work properly to allow him to swallow. Amazingly enough, we did NOT take this as a sign that he was dead and should be abandoned. And fortunately, Noomi Bundy wasn't making the laws in Arizona at that time, so no judge stepped in to take the decision away from us for fear that we loved him too much and were irrationally letting that influence us.

Now that you mention it, it was something like that. I also remember his family coming to visit every day, even after they installed the tube. I wonder why they did that since he was on life support and couldn't be expected to live.

Well, you know, according to Noomi Gacy and the other leftist psychopaths on the board, he was essentially dead at the point that he needed a feeding tube, and people DO visit the graves of their loves ones, so it was probably something along those lines.

 

[JoeB131]

The state is currently her guardians, however I think precedent will prove him wrong if he chooses to rule in favor of an abortion.


Having read about the case, I doubt he will choose to abort.

If the state were her guardians there would be no need for a court order. The woman has adoptive parents who really are her guardians. The state went to court to get an order overruling the guardians.

Which should be absolutely frightening to everyone.

Meh, not really. This woman has no ability to care for a child or even ID the father. And her medical condition makes pregnancy a danger.

 

[Jarlaxle]

How is this woman going to feel when she's dragged into a room, stuck in the stirrups, and her baby is ripped OUT of her? What sort of parent are YOU, that you're actually sitting there thinking, "Only monsters would give away their grandchild? GOOD people would KILL their grandchild instead?" NOW you've . . . what? Decided that anyone who puts their child up for adoption, instead of aborting him, is evil?

Tell me, oh moral guru, how YOU would go about explaining to her that she cannot keep her baby OR keep it safe, that Mom and Dad have decided to kill him instead?

I am starting to come top some extremely disturbing conclusions about Noomi. I truly think the woman might be psychotic.

I was going with "stupid as a stump, and frighteningly evil". She might also be mentally ill, for all I know. I wouldn't rule it out.

Every time I read her posts, I wonder if that's what it was like for John Wayne Gacy's or Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors when they talked to them, before the cops found the body parts.

Actually, the thing I find the most frightening is that she is NOT stupid...the contrary, she seems quite intelligent.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I am starting to come top some extremely disturbing conclusions about Noomi. I truly think the woman might be psychotic.

I was going with "stupid as a stump, and frighteningly evil". She might also be mentally ill, for all I know. I wouldn't rule it out.

Every time I read her posts, I wonder if that's what it was like for John Wayne Gacy's or Jeffrey Dahmer's neighbors when they talked to them, before the cops found the body parts.

Actually, the thing I find the most frightening is that she is NOT stupid...the contrary, she seems quite intelligent.

No, she's stupid. It's not the same as ignorant or retarded. Ignorant is when you're uninformed, and retarded is when you don't have the capacity to learn. Stupid is when you COULD learn, don't bother, and are proud of how uninformed you are.

When you're as placidly, bovinely brainwashed into worshipping the state as Noomi is, you're stupid. There are times when she talks that I can almost hear her chewing her cud.

 

[Noomi]

When did you graduate from med school?

Have you not read the autopsy reports?

Yes. They made no mention of "mush", or Grandma's equally low-class and callous word, "jello". They said she was severely brain-damaged, which no one has ever disputed. I assume this bare, factual use of terminology is owing to the facts that the pathologist 1) graduated medical school, unlike you, and 2) isn't a disgusting, crass juvenile, unlike you.

Also back in the land of facts, Terry Schiavo's brain, as severely damaged as it was, was still capable of operating her basic body systems. Her heart continued to beat, her lungs continued to breathe, she continued to process the nutrition provided. The fact that it was provided through a tube, rather than by her grabbing a knife and fork, does not make her, as Grandma also charmingly put it, "a dead woman".

Schivio couldn't communicate, could she? She couldn't have a conversation, she couldn't feed herself, brush her hair, bathe herself, wipe her own ass or insert a tampon, could she? She was a vegetable, and if the taxpayers were paying for her to lie in a bed all day, then its a blessing they pulled the plug.