Judge declares smoking bans consitiutional

[Anguille]

You're talking about the two workers who actually don't smoke themselves, of course.

Who are you talking to, Babaloo??
Please read this thread:

Identifying the post to which one is replying? http://usmessageboard.com/showthread.php?t=52708

 

[Ravi]

No offense, Angie, but you are being a bit of a control freak. Reminds me of someone...

 

[Anguille]

No offense, Angie, but you are being a bit of a control freak. Reminds me of someone...

That's a low blow!!

 

[Anguille]

No offense, Angie, but you are being a bit of a control freak. Reminds me of someone...

Hey, when I called you Ravi Antoinnette, ya gotta admit , it was a pretty good one, huh?

 

[Ravi]

Not really because her quote was taken out of context.

 

[manifold]

Not really because her quote was taken out of context.

Hey!

Try all you want you ain't gonna unseat the analyst!!

 

[Shogun]

Thank you. Smokers have the choice not to smoke, it isn't going to kill them not to smoke. But few people have the choice not to work and if they don't work, they don't don't eat and if they don't eat, they die.

it wont kill you to get a job at mcdonalds either. OR choosing a smoke free bar. I don't care how you can easily minimize someone ELSES choices behaviour when you have the ability to make better personal choices yourself.


Also, I wonder who is forcing mani to bartend at the Manhole gaybar.. No one? Interesting how that works.

 

[Shogun]

Some workplaces are always going to be dangerous in ways that can't be entirely prevented You can't elliminate police or the military because of the chances of them getting shot.

Some jobs require certain risks in order to fulfill a higher need. So "reasonably possible" would have been a better way to put it, I agree.

You still ASSume that SHS is a significant health threat to employees when your "evidence" is still based on "projections and estimates".

Tell me, where are the piles of cancer ridden, half-dead bartenders with which you can make such an accusation outside of manipulated statistics?

 

[Anguille]

You still ASSume that SHS is a significant health threat to employees when your "evidence" is still based on "projections and estimates".

Tell me, where are the piles of cancer ridden, half-dead bartenders with which you can make such an accusation outside of manipulated statistics?

I don't assume nuthin' about SMS. As I said earlier in the thread, I developed asthma as a result of working in a smoking environment. In case you aren't aware, people die from asthma, fortunately I didn't but even with medication it still made me pretty sick. When the smoking ban went into effect, my asthma disappeared. This is all the evidence I personally need to prove to myself that smoking is a health hazard.

As for your pile of half dead cancer ridden bartenders, I may eventually end up in that pile after my many years in the business.

Are you saying that governments all over the world are banning cigarette smoking based on what you call "manipulated statistics" ? But that you, Shogun, and a handful of tobacco industry apologists, know the real truth about secondhand smoke?

Yeah right! Blow it out your bung hole, Shoog!

 

[Shogun]

Listen, I HAVE asthma. I HAVE albuterol inhalers. and, I smoke. You are being a bit of a drama queen about the risk involved. and NO, people DONT all of a sudden fall over from asthma because somone lights up a smoke in a bar. Your asthma gets triggered by MANY things and I just don't care to hear about what you wanna ban when you can always take your ass somewhere else. Not to mention, I can always leave a smoke filled area. I am no more forced to work there than you are forced to work at a beef slaughterhouse.



I guess flowers and their pollen are next, eh? Animals and their dander? Dust and integument detrius for christs sake? It's not as if ASTHMA is some giant fucking epidemic out leaving a trail of dead either. Your grasping at nothing.

Bars have been around forever. Again, WHERE ARE THE DEAD SHS BAR STAFF?


I'm saying that it's popular to hop on the pink lunger bandwagon without having to bother with comprehending your "evidence". Indeed, there probably ISNT a conflict of interest for organizations whose very relevance comes from your little quest either, eh? I mean, who wants to go the way of the Save the Whales campeign of the early 90s, eh?

 

[Anguille]

Listen, I HAVE asthma. I HAVE albuterol inhalers. and, I smoke. You are being a bit of a drama queen about the risk involved. and NO, people DONT all of a sudden fall over from asthma because somone lights up a smoke in a bar. Your asthma gets triggered by MANY things and I just don't care to hear about what you wanna ban when you can always take your ass somewhere else. Not to mention, I can always leave a smoke filled area. I am no more forced to work there than you are forced to work at a beef slaughterhouse.



I guess flowers and their pollen are next, eh? Animals and their dander? Dust and integument detrius for christs sake? It's not as if ASTHMA is some giant fucking epidemic out leaving a trail of dead either. Your grasping at nothing.

Bars have been around forever. Again, WHERE ARE THE DEAD SHS BAR STAFF?


I'm saying that it's popular to hop on the pink lunger bandwagon without having to bother with comprehending your "evidence". Indeed, there probably ISNT a conflict of interest for organizations whose very relevance comes from your little quest either, eh? I mean, who wants to go the way of the Save the Whales campeign of the early 90s, eh?

Dumbass, people DO fall over and die of an asthma attack. If you have asthma and you don't know that and on top of that, you smoke!!!!!!, then all I can say is it's your funeral.

But it's isn't going to be my funeral because a bunch of Tobacco Trooffers like you want to ....

oh, but why am I arguing with the likes of you again ...

 

[AllieBaba]

Dumbass, people DO fall over and die of an asthma attack. If you have asthma and you don't know that and on top of that, you smoke!!!!!!, then all I can say is it's your funeral.

But it's isn't going to be my funeral because a bunch of Tobacco Trooffers like you want to ....

oh, but why am I arguing with the likes of you again ...

Sure they do, but not because of somebody's ciggie in a bar.

A DA from my home town keeled over last year. He was jogging. Didn't smoke, had his inhaler with him, real health fanatic.

I have a friend who is asthmatic and smokes. Not good for her lungs, but she says she actually has attacks when she DOESN'T smoke at this point.

 

[Anguille]

Sure they do, but not because of somebody's ciggie in a bar.

A DA from my home town keeled over last year. He was jogging. Didn't smoke, had his inhaler with him, real health fanatic.

I have a friend who is asthmatic and smokes. Not good for her lungs, but she says she actually has attacks when she DOESN'T smoke at this point.

From the Detroit Free Press:

Asthma death tied to smoke
MSU professor documents risk in the workplace

By PEGGY WALSH-SARNECKI • FREE PRESS EDUCATION WRITER • February 9, 2008


A 19-year-old woman shows up for work at a smoke-filled Michigan bar, appearing both healthy and happy. She's worked there without incident for several months. Fifteen minutes later, she collapses and dies within minutes of that.

A mystery?

No. An autopsy showed the woman died of a severe asthma attack. Dr. Ken Rosenman, a professor of medicine and chief of the division of occupational and environmental medicine at Michigan State University's College of Medicine, said the death is directly linked to the secondhand smoke in her workplace.

He published his findings this month in the American Journal of Industrial Medicine, making it what is believed to be the first documented link of secondhand smoke to an asthma-related death in an adult, Rosenman said.

"This is a very dramatic case," he said. "The other associations have been with chronic exposure. This is the first time someone dropped dead right there."

He declined to identify the woman, the bar or the town because of a confidentiality agreement with the victim's family.

The report comes at a time when legislation to ban smoking in bars and restaurants has passed the Michigan House of Representative but appears stalled in the state Senate.

Asthma is a chronic disease that leaves sufferers with extremely sensitive air passages in their lungs that can be swollen or inflamed. The problem can be triggered by air-quality problems such as smoke.

Rosenman said he suspects this death may not be unique. But no one has been able to track asthma-related deaths and their links to secondhand smoke before now. MSU, however, has three grants from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that allows researchers to track work-related deaths, work-related asthma and asthma deaths, making it the only institution to find the links between these incidents.

State Sen. Ray Basham, D-Taylor, the sponsor of the smoking-ban bill in the Senate, said 32 states and Ontario have passed some version of no-smoking laws. Michigan's version bans smoking in bars and restaurants but leaves some exceptions for cigar shops, casinos and bingo halls.

"I have a granddaughter who has asthma. If you've ever seen an attack, it's not a pretty thing," he said. "We're losing 3,000 people a year in Michigan to secondhand smoke."

The Michigan Restaurant Association opposes the smoking bans. Owners should decide which places are smoking or nonsmoking, and patrons can choose whether to visit them, said Andy Deloney, its vice president of public affairs.

"If you want to talk about banning smoking because of this unfortunate incident, then let's ban smoking, period," Deloney said. "Don't say we're going to take away your individual choices in bars and restaurants but you can go into a tribal casino and smoke."

Contact PEGGY WALSH-SARNECKI at [email protected].

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080209/NEWS06/802090354

 

[Anguille]

I have a friend who is asthmatic and smokes. Not good for her lungs, but she says she actually has attacks when she DOESN'T smoke at this point.

Yeah right, I have a friend whose excuse is her doctor said quiting smoking might lead her to have a psychotic breakdown.

 

[Ravi]

Wow, that must have been some investigation. I wonder how they ruled out all these other triggers?

Animal dander
Dust mites
Cockroaches
Pollen
Mold
Air pollution
Cold air and weather changes
Strong odors
Scented products
Stress
Sulfites


Maybe we should ban wine in bars, as well. After all wine contains sulfites. Jesus, it sounds like all work places must exist in a sanitized vacuum.

 

[Ravi]

He declined to identify the woman, the bar or the town because of a confidentiality agreement with the victim's family.

 

[jillian]

He declined to identify the woman, the bar or the town because of a confidentiality agreement with the victim's family.

says it all, doesn't it?

 

[Shogun]

Dumbass, people DO fall over and die of an asthma attack. If you have asthma and you don't know that and on top of that, you smoke!!!!!!, then all I can say is it's your funeral.

But it's isn't going to be my funeral because a bunch of Tobacco Trooffers like you want to ....

oh, but why am I arguing with the likes of you again ...

it's EXACTLY my personal experience as an asthmatic smoker that allows me to call bullshit on your claim that SHS kill asthmatics. Again, don't give me this "people do" shit. People DO develop lung cancer after having NEVER been around SHS. Indeed, it won't be YOUR funeral because YOU should be making better choices about where you decide to drink, not because you have latched onto the "save the whales" crusade du jour.

You are argueing with the likes of me because no one on this forum is buying the standard operating bullshit from pink lungers who are willing to regurgitate bullshit while having absoluetly no idea what they are trying to sell as truth is, in fact, based on ESTIMATES AND PROJECTIONS.


so, where are all the dead asthmatics who fell over because they decided to drink at a smoke friendly bar? Please, feel free to pummel me about the head and neck with EVIDENCE of such.

 

[Ravi]

Jillian...yet the Michigan legislators seemed to fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

Mind-boggling.

 

[Anguille]

Wow, that must have been some investigation. I wonder how they ruled out all these other triggers?

Animal dander
Dust mites
Cockroaches
Pollen
Mold
Air pollution
Cold air and weather changes
Strong odors
Scented products
Stress
Sulfites


Maybe we should ban wine in bars, as well. After all wine contains sulfites. Jesus, it sounds like all work places must exist in a sanitized vacuum.

When someone drinks wine in a bar, they are not forcing that wine down someone else's throat. no such thing a exposure to second hand wine. Try to stay on topic here.

If you've ever seen a sibling repeatedly rushed to the hospital during as asthma attack as a result of exposure to cigarette smoke from another family member whom doctors have told not to smoke around the sibling, you know it's a hazard. And like as I said earlier, I didn't even have to be told by my doctor that secondhand smoke was causing my asthma. I dissappeared once smoking was bannned. It was the only thing that changed in my workplace. It was the cause.

If you think you know better than a medical doctor what caused her death and want to blame it on your list of allergens, do whatever you have to do to keep convincing yourself that your smoke harms no one.