JFK Another Angle

[KokomoJojo]

the thing that proves beyond a doubt Greer fired the fatal head shot that the Greer apologists cant get around and ignore and what cinched it for me that Greer fired the fatal head shot,is that two of the main doctors who examined him determined that the wound came from a HANDGUN fired at CLOSE RANGE,and there are a few supprssed witness testimonys that he had posted of a few saying they saw a secret service guy firing a gun.

"Handgun used"

2. Dr. Charles Wilbur: “Interpretation of the fatal head wound by several attending surgeons suggested a high velocity handgun bullet fired at close range,”

3. Iona Antonov, “On the Trail of the President’s Killers: part 2,” New Times, 1977, pp.26-30: New York Daily News quoted friends of John Rosselli to the effect that Oswald a decoy “while others ambushed” Kennedy from closer range.

5. Parkland Dr. McClelland's testimony as reproduced in Hearings volume 6, p.38: "Dr. McClelland judged that the wound in the President's skull could be expected'…from a very high velocity missile…with a heavy calibre bullet, such as a .45 pistol fired at close range…' This would particularly apply to the skull '…where there was a sudden change in density from the brain to the skull cavity, as it entered. As it left the body, it would still have a great deal of force behind it and would blow up a large segment of tissue as it exited.'"

6. A.J. Millican: &#8220;It sounded like a .45 automatic, or a high-powered rifle.&#8221; <19WCH486>

7. S.M. Holland: &#8220;It would be like you&#8217;re firing a .38 pistol right beside a shotgun, or a .45 right beside a shotgun.&#8221;

I looked at that clip again, frame by frame, and I cannot see anything that remotely resembles anything that could be thought to be the driver wasting kennedy.

Just before the shot, the guy beside greer puts his hands up to his face then back down, greers left hand either slides around the steering wheel to the right or he turned the wheel a 1/4 turn to the right, his left hand never left the wheel, his right hand is not visible, kennedy flies backward everyone else forward, apparently he hit the brakes, connallys wife puts her hand over him and drags him lower, greer and passenger duck forward and the car accelerates.

Did I leave anything pertinent out?

Otherwise you will need to post whatever you think you guys are seeing that makes you think greer shot him because I cant find any evidence of it.

well thats what doctors are used to seeing, pistol wounds.

He does not say it was a pistol he said "looks like".

If you had someone in the sewer that would explain the smell of powder in the street and moor thinking the shot came from the car since the car would have been almost between her and the shooter and the angle perfectly matches the direction of body movement.

 

[7forever]

"Handgun used"

2. Dr. Charles Wilbur: “Interpretation of the fatal head wound by several attending surgeons suggested a high velocity handgun bullet fired at close range,”

3. Iona Antonov, “On the Trail of the President’s Killers: part 2,” New Times, 1977, pp.26-30: New York Daily News quoted friends of John Rosselli to the effect that Oswald a decoy “while others ambushed” Kennedy from closer range.

5. Parkland Dr. McClelland's testimony as reproduced in Hearings volume 6, p.38: "Dr. McClelland judged that the wound in the President's skull could be expected'…from a very high velocity missile…with a heavy calibre bullet, such as a .45 pistol fired at close range…' This would particularly apply to the skull '…where there was a sudden change in density from the brain to the skull cavity, as it entered. As it left the body, it would still have a great deal of force behind it and would blow up a large segment of tissue as it exited.'"

6. A.J. Millican: “It sounded like a .45 automatic, or a high-powered rifle.” <19WCH486>

7. S.M. Holland: “It would be like you’re firing a .38 pistol right beside a shotgun, or a .45 right beside a shotgun.”

I looked at that clip again, frame by frame, and I cannot see anything that remotely resembles anything that could be thought to be the driver wasting kennedy.

Just before the shot, the guy beside greer puts his hands up to his face then back down, greers left hand either slides around the steering wheel to the right or he turned the wheel a 1/4 turn to the right, his left hand never left the wheel, his right hand is not visible, kennedy flies backward everyone else forward, apparently he hit the brakes, connallys wife puts her hand over him and drags him lower, greer and passenger duck forward and the car accelerates.

Did I leave anything pertinent out?

You have to be disinfo. Both of Greer's hands were off the wheel, during which he transferred the gun. You've been aware of these facts for years.

Zapruder Frames - Costella Combined Edit

Greer passes the gun starting at frame 242 with both his hands off the wheel at frame 241. The last frame you see the fitted gun is 278 and then the film pans upward with zero evidence his left hand ever returned to the wheel. We know it didn't because his left arm crosses his right shoulder in the nix and muchmore films.

Frame 241 shows both hands off the wheel just before he passes gun..

Greer passes gun and his left hand goes missing because they panned upward during the frames which Greer transferred the gun from the lower position to near his shoulder before he turned the second time to shoot jfk. You can see the grip, barrel, and muzzle briefly while it fits to his left hand.

 

[KokomoJojo]

I looked at that clip again, frame by frame, and I cannot see anything that remotely resembles anything that could be thought to be the driver wasting kennedy.

Just before the shot, the guy beside greer puts his hands up to his face then back down, greers left hand either slides around the steering wheel to the right or he turned the wheel a 1/4 turn to the right, his left hand never left the wheel, his right hand is not visible, kennedy flies backward everyone else forward, apparently he hit the brakes, connallys wife puts her hand over him and drags him lower, greer and passenger duck forward and the car accelerates.

Did I leave anything pertinent out?

You have to be disinfo. Both of Greer's hands were off the wheel, during which he transferred the gun. You've been aware of these facts for years.

Zapruder Frames - Costella Combined Edit

Greer passes the gun starting at frame 242 with both his hands off the wheel at frame 241. The last frame you see the fitted gun is 278 and then the film pans upward with zero evidence his left hand ever returned to the wheel. We know it didn't because his left arm crosses his right shoulder in the nix and muchmore films.

Frame 241 shows both hands off the wheel just before he passes gun..

Greer passes gun and his left hand goes missing because they panned upward during the frames which Greer transferred the gun from the lower position to near his shoulder before he turned the second time to shoot jfk. You can see the grip, barrel, and muzzle briefly while it fits to his left hand.

I dont know where you got that clip from but they did some piss poor cgi work if you failed to notice.

the one I posted claims to be the original version shown on tv and it does not have mysterious black shadows like yours does.

​

 

[LA RAM FAN]

"Handgun used"

2. Dr. Charles Wilbur: “Interpretation of the fatal head wound by several attending surgeons suggested a high velocity handgun bullet fired at close range,”

3. Iona Antonov, “On the Trail of the President’s Killers: part 2,” New Times, 1977, pp.26-30: New York Daily News quoted friends of John Rosselli to the effect that Oswald a decoy “while others ambushed” Kennedy from closer range.

5. Parkland Dr. McClelland's testimony as reproduced in Hearings volume 6, p.38: "Dr. McClelland judged that the wound in the President's skull could be expected'…from a very high velocity missile…with a heavy calibre bullet, such as a .45 pistol fired at close range…' This would particularly apply to the skull '…where there was a sudden change in density from the brain to the skull cavity, as it entered. As it left the body, it would still have a great deal of force behind it and would blow up a large segment of tissue as it exited.'"

6. A.J. Millican: “It sounded like a .45 automatic, or a high-powered rifle.” <19WCH486>

7. S.M. Holland: “It would be like you’re firing a .38 pistol right beside a shotgun, or a .45 right beside a shotgun.”

I looked at that clip again, frame by frame, and I cannot see anything that remotely resembles anything that could be thought to be the driver wasting kennedy.

Just before the shot, the guy beside greer puts his hands up to his face then back down, greers left hand either slides around the steering wheel to the right or he turned the wheel a 1/4 turn to the right, his left hand never left the wheel, his right hand is not visible, kennedy flies backward everyone else forward, apparently he hit the brakes, connallys wife puts her hand over him and drags him lower, greer and passenger duck forward and the car accelerates.

Did I leave anything pertinent out?

Otherwise you will need to post whatever you think you guys are seeing that makes you think greer shot him because I cant find any evidence of it.

well thats what doctors are used to seeing, pistol wounds.

He does not say it was a pistol he said "looks like".

If you had someone in the sewer that would explain the smell of powder in the street and moor thinking the shot came from the car since the car would have been almost between her and the shooter and the angle perfectly matches the direction of body movement.

stick to the 9/11 subject. I see you have done very little research into this at all because all serious researchers know for a fact that the zapruder film has been altered.proof of that is in the muchmoore and nix films you see Greer turning around raising his left arm pointing it at kennedy CLEARLY taking his hand off the wheel.

yeah he didnt waste him thats why he turns around and points his arm at him and raises it. you are also ignoring what he has posted that two of the main doctors that examined him said his head wound came from a HANDGUN fired at CLOSE RANGE. your doing what the lone nut theorists do that defend the lies of the warren commission that oswald was the lone asssassin,ignoring what the dallas doctors said,ignoring that testimony they gave and ignoring that he turned around and raised his arm and pointed it at jfk. which the zapruder film altered but the muchmoore and nix films show did happen.

 

[KokomoJojo]

I looked at that clip again, frame by frame, and I cannot see anything that remotely resembles anything that could be thought to be the driver wasting kennedy.

Just before the shot, the guy beside greer puts his hands up to his face then back down, greers left hand either slides around the steering wheel to the right or he turned the wheel a 1/4 turn to the right, his left hand never left the wheel, his right hand is not visible, kennedy flies backward everyone else forward, apparently he hit the brakes, connallys wife puts her hand over him and drags him lower, greer and passenger duck forward and the car accelerates.

Did I leave anything pertinent out?

Otherwise you will need to post whatever you think you guys are seeing that makes you think greer shot him because I cant find any evidence of it.

well thats what doctors are used to seeing, pistol wounds.

He does not say it was a pistol he said "looks like".

If you had someone in the sewer that would explain the smell of powder in the street and moor thinking the shot came from the car since the car would have been almost between her and the shooter and the angle perfectly matches the direction of body movement.

stick to the 9/11 subject. I see you have done very little research into this at all because all serious researchers know for a fact that the zapruder film has been altered.proof of that is in the muchmoore and nix films you see Greer turning around raising his left arm pointing it at kennedy CLEARLY taking his hand off the wheel.

yeah he didnt waste him thats why he turns around and points his arm at him and raises it. you are also ignoring what he has posted that two of the main doctors that examined him said his head wound came from a HANDGUN fired at CLOSE RANGE. your doing what the lone nut theorists do that defend the lies of the warren commission that oswald was the lone asssassin,ignoring what the dallas doctors said,ignoring that testimony they gave and ignoring that he turned around and raised his arm and pointed it at jfk. which the zapruder film altered but the muchmoore and nix films show did happen.

I dint say the zap film was not altered.

Can you tell the difference between a wound was made by a handgun or a rifle?

If so how?

All I see is the glare off the passengers head.

Where do you think you see a gun?

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I looked at that clip again, frame by frame, and I cannot see anything that remotely resembles anything that could be thought to be the driver wasting kennedy.

Just before the shot, the guy beside greer puts his hands up to his face then back down, greers left hand either slides around the steering wheel to the right or he turned the wheel a 1/4 turn to the right, his left hand never left the wheel, his right hand is not visible, kennedy flies backward everyone else forward, apparently he hit the brakes, connallys wife puts her hand over him and drags him lower, greer and passenger duck forward and the car accelerates.

Did I leave anything pertinent out?

Otherwise you will need to post whatever you think you guys are seeing that makes you think greer shot him because I cant find any evidence of it.

well thats what doctors are used to seeing, pistol wounds.

He does not say it was a pistol he said "looks like".

If you had someone in the sewer that would explain the smell of powder in the street and moor thinking the shot came from the car since the car would have been almost between her and the shooter and the angle perfectly matches the direction of body movement.

stick to the 9/11 subject. I see you have done very little research into this at all because all serious researchers know for a fact that the zapruder film has been altered.proof of that is in the muchmoore and nix films you see Greer turning around raising his left arm pointing it at kennedy CLEARLY taking his hand off the wheel.

yeah he didnt waste him thats why he turns around and points his arm at him and raises it. you are also ignoring what he has posted that two of the main doctors that examined him said his head wound came from a HANDGUN fired at CLOSE RANGE. your doing what the lone nut theorists do that defend the lies of the warren commission that oswald was the lone asssassin,ignoring what the dallas doctors said,ignoring that testimony they gave and ignoring that he turned around and raised his arm and pointed it at jfk. which the zapruder film altered but the muchmoore and nix films show did happen.

I dint say the zap film was not altered.

Can you tell the difference between a wound was made by a handgun or a rifle?

If so how?

All I see is the glare off the passengers head.

Where do you think you see a gun?

youir missing the point of WHY the zapruder film was altered,so they could eliminate the gun.

 

[KokomoJojo]

stick to the 9/11 subject. I see you have done very little research into this at all because all serious researchers know for a fact that the zapruder film has been altered.proof of that is in the muchmoore and nix films you see Greer turning around raising his left arm pointing it at kennedy CLEARLY taking his hand off the wheel.

yeah he didnt waste him thats why he turns around and points his arm at him and raises it. you are also ignoring what he has posted that two of the main doctors that examined him said his head wound came from a HANDGUN fired at CLOSE RANGE. your doing what the lone nut theorists do that defend the lies of the warren commission that oswald was the lone asssassin,ignoring what the dallas doctors said,ignoring that testimony they gave and ignoring that he turned around and raised his arm and pointed it at jfk. which the zapruder film altered but the muchmoore and nix films show did happen.

I dint say the zap film was not altered.

Can you tell the difference between a wound was made by a handgun or a rifle?

If so how?

All I see is the glare off the passengers head.

Where do you think you see a gun?

youir missing the point of WHY the zapruder film was altered,so they could eliminate the gun.

I cant draw that conclusion, the ballistics does not support it.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

I dint say the zap film was not altered.

Can you tell the difference between a wound was made by a handgun or a rifle?

If so how?

All I see is the glare off the passengers head.

Where do you think you see a gun?

youir missing the point of WHY the zapruder film was altered,so they could eliminate the gun.

I cant draw that conclusion, the ballistics does not support it.

except its not ME saying it,I didnt come up with that conclusion,PHOTOGRAPHY experts came up with the conclusion that the zapruder film was altered.you need to read the book THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX. again,your doing the same thing lone nut theorists do,ignore what the dallas doctors do therefore im wasting my time with you on this.you going to do what the trolls do who ignore facts that oswald was innocent and ignore the dallas doctors like they do,then agaim,stick to 9/11,a discussion your much better at.

read that book then get back to me,till then,this discussion between us is over.

 

[KokomoJojo]

youir missing the point of WHY the zapruder film was altered,so they could eliminate the gun.

I cant draw that conclusion, the ballistics does not support it.

except its not ME saying it,I didnt come up with that conclusion,PHOTOGRAPHY experts came up with the conclusion that the zapruder film was altered.you need to read the book THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX. again,your doing the same thing lone nut theorists do,ignore what the dallas doctors do therefore im wasting my time with you on this.you going to do what the trolls do who ignore facts that oswald was innocent and ignore the dallas doctors like they do,then agaim,stick to 9/11,a discussion your much better at.

read that book then get back to me,till then,this discussion between us is over.

I can see that it was altered but not as much as the one that 7 is using.

Its not hard to alter a film, pain in the ass in those days yes, hard not.

Hardly, I presented a different set of facts, and my set of facts the ballistics just happen to match.

You want to run with 7 on this fine, however then you implicate Jackie as an accessory to the murder of her own husband along with connally, his wife, the front seat passenger and anyone else who would have had seen or felt it. Gun powder is a chemical expansion of gases and even silenced you still get the smell and easily detectable air blast.

You cant settle for blobs in a video with complete disregard for the forensics.

 

[7forever]

I cant draw that conclusion, the ballistics does not support it.

except its not ME saying it,I didnt come up with that conclusion,PHOTOGRAPHY experts came up with the conclusion that the zapruder film was altered.you need to read the book THE GREAT ZAPRUDER FILM HOAX. again,your doing the same thing lone nut theorists do,ignore what the dallas doctors do therefore im wasting my time with you on this.you going to do what the trolls do who ignore facts that oswald was innocent and ignore the dallas doctors like they do,then agaim,stick to 9/11,a discussion your much better at.

read that book then get back to me,till then,this discussion between us is over.

I can see that it was altered but not as much as the one that 7 is using.

Its not hard to alter a film, pain in the ass in those days yes, hard not.

Hardly, I presented a different set of facts, and my set of facts the ballistics just happen to match.

You want to run with 7 on this fine, however then you implicate Jackie as an accessory to the murder of her own husband along with connally, his wife, the front seat passenger and anyone else who would have had seen or felt it. Gun powder is a chemical expansion of gases and even silenced you still get the smell and easily detectable air blast.

You cant settle for blobs in a video with complete disregard for the forensics.

Hill saw Greer's gun and Bertha smelled gunpowder on the Governor and President. No surprise there, since the gun was fired right over Connally's head.

insidethearrb

Here is some collaborating information (on the SS Agent Greer being the source of the final headshot with his nickle plated revolver)

Douglas P. Horne, Chief Analyst for Military Records, Assassination Records Review Board (Pub 2010) details in volume five of this incredibly detailed and well-documented five volume set, how a "prominent researcher" that he knows who requested confidentiality on his identity, describes video taping an interview (shortly before the witness died) with an unnamed black steward on Air Force One, who related an incident on the Air Force One flight back to Washington after the assassination, during which Secret Service Agent Clint Hill "was changing his shirt (which was covered with the President's blood) and in a moment of complete honesty, while being assisted by the steward with his change of wardrobe, confided to the steward that when he jumped onto the back of the limousine, 'the driver had his gun out and it was pointed right at my face'."

Horne continues, "As the interview was related to me, Clint Hill was quite shaken by what he saw, for the implications were obvious. Hill's descriptions of the sound of the head shot(s), in both his written statement and in his Warren Commission testimony, were consistently that it resembled the sound a revolver makes when it is fired into a hard object."

Horne continues, "The discharging of a firearm inside the limousine could also explain why the triage nurse at Parkland hospital, Bertha Lozano, smelled 'smoke' (i.e. gunpowder) when Kennedy and Connelly were rushed past her on gurneys to the trauma stations for treatment." "The videotaped interview of the steward also provides independent corroboration for Hugh Betzner's account in his Sheriff's Department affidavit of November 22, 1963, that he saw a nickel (plated) revolver in someone’s hand inside the limousine during the assassination, and is consistent with Jean Hill's account in her affidavit of November 22, 1963 that some men in plain clothes were 'shooting back' (at the assassins)." "

One other Chrenshaw quote from High Treason 2 (page 114) is worth of mention here:
'The Secret Service men were there when we started to work on Mr. Kennedy (at Parkland Hospital). Clint Hill had a gun out and cocked and we were afraid he was going to shoot one of us. And Doris Nelson went around saying, 'he's okay, he's okay, he's okay,' and got him finally out of the room. It was sheer bedlam.

This makes sense to me only when I consider the revelation made by Clint Hill to the Air Force One steward. Consider his state of mind in Trauma Room One, given what Hill confided to the steward. He had just seen (and heard) the driver of the President's limousine plug the President, the man they were all sworn to protect, with a coup de grace shot to the head, and from that moment onward (until the end of his career when he was granted early retirement in 1975), his world was turned upside down. He was surrounded by known traitors: William Greer, Roy Kellerman, Floyd Boring, Emory Roberts -- and doubtless others, unknown to him. He didn't know whom to trust, and besides being infused with anger and overcome by sorrow, he might well even have been afraid for his own life, for having heard Greer fire his revolver, and seen it in his hand immediately after the head explosion, he was clearly, 'the man who knew too much'.

Hill had enough intestinal fortitude to tell Arlen Specter about Floyd Boring's security stripping role under oath, and enough common sense to suddenly forget Boring's name when he was required to prepare a written statement about the matter later for Secret Service Chief James J. Rowley. The poor man suffered from deep depression and alcoholism for years, and his agony was still apparent, and right on the surface, in 1975 when he was interviewed for the television news magazine 60 Minutes by Mike Wallace. (During that interview, I believe Hill was as upset by what he could not talk about, as he was by what he did talk about. The 'survivor's guilt' that he exhibited during the poignant interview may really have related more to his failure to blow the whistle on the 'dirty' Secret Service agents involved in the assassination, than to his failure to get to the limousine in time to protect the President."

Horne's five volumes, large format paperback set is incredibly inclusive and well documented and is available on both amazon.com and amazon.ca. I strongly recommend it.

 

[KokomoJojo]

so how does a bullet fired from forward left make the head and body fly backward left?

 

[jon_berzerk]

they used to be large enough a person could easily fit in them

a shot from the gutter would not cause the blowby pattern in the motion photo

the blood spray clearly starts by moving from head towards front seat

then is caught by the wind

and blown back again

 

[KokomoJojo]

they used to be large enough a person could easily fit in them

a shot from the gutter would not cause the blowby pattern in the motion photo

the blood spray clearly starts by moving from head towards front seat

then is caught by the wind

and blown back again

well thats not exactly the way it works.





first kennedy was shot from the front be it the sewer (the ballistics match) or up past that sign on the hill (to close to argue)

The problem with all these so called investigations they always surround proving the government versions right or wrong rather then simply doing good forensic investigation work and coming up with correct answers to simple problems.

So they always are trying to pound round pegs into square holes, the result is you get shit for your tax dollars.

as you can see what you think would have happened to the brain matter is not correct and a frontal shot would definitely blow it to the front seat.

However I await anyone who can show a front left angle produces left back reaction, not only in the head but the whole body.

 

[7forever]

so how does a bullet fired from forward left make the head and body fly backward left?

He went straight back, bounced off the seat, then slumped to the left, the side he was leaning before the shot. The angle between Greer and jfk was nil.

 

[jon_berzerk]

they used to be large enough a person could easily fit in them

a shot from the gutter would not cause the blowby pattern in the motion photo

the blood spray clearly starts by moving from head towards front seat

then is caught by the wind

and blown back again

well thats not exactly the way it works.





first kennedy was shot from the front be it the sewer (the ballistics match) or up past that sign on the hill (to close to argue)

The problem with all these so called investigations they always surround proving the government versions right or wrong rather then simply doing good forensic investigation work and coming up with correct answers to simple problems.

So they always are trying to pound round pegs into square holes, the result is you get shit for your tax dollars.

as you can see what you think would have happened to the brain matter is not correct and a frontal shot would definitely blow it to the front seat.

However I await anyone who can show a front left angle produces left back reaction, not only in the head but the whole body.

well thats not exactly the way it works.

well that is exactly the way it worked

 

[jon_berzerk]

so how does a bullet fired from forward left make the head and body fly backward left?

He went straight back, bounced off the seat, then slumped to the left, the side he was leaning before the shot. The angle between Greer and jfk was nil.

He went straight back

actually forward then back

at the same time you can see Connallys

reaction to being hit by the same bullet

 

[7forever]

so how does a bullet fired from forward left make the head and body fly backward left?

He went straight back, bounced off the seat, then slumped to the left, the side he was leaning before the shot. The angle between Greer and jfk was nil.

He went straight back

actually forward then back

at the same time you can see Connallys

reaction to being hit by the same bullet

Notice that jfk's nose never moves but his head appears to move forward because of the rear starting to gape open.

 

[KokomoJojo]

so how does a bullet fired from forward left make the head and body fly backward left?

He went straight back, bounced off the seat, then slumped to the left, the side he was leaning before the shot. The angle between Greer and jfk was nil.

his position prior to being thrown to the left and back is irrelevant.

so you post one that he is thrown backward and to his left then you post another where he does not move at all.

thats a really quick way to get people to conclude that you have a few screws missing and to become the central focus of the argument.

 

[7forever]

so how does a bullet fired from forward left make the head and body fly backward left?

He went straight back, bounced off the seat, then slumped to the left, the side he was leaning before the shot. The angle between Greer and jfk was nil.

his position prior to being thrown to the left and back is irrelevant.

so you post one that he is thrown backward and to his left then you post another where he does not move at all.

thats a really quick way to get people to conclude that you have a few screws missing and to become the central focus of the argument.

He wasn't thrown to his left. He slumped in that direction naturally, after Greer shot him in the forehead. His torso was leaning left before the shot.

 

[rightwinger]

Damn

In super slow motion....it looks like Jackie did it