Jewish and Liberal...?

[Sallow]

Having Jewish people in my family has helped me understand some things.

- For the most part the Jewish religion is about scholarship. And blindly accepting the Torah has always been frowned upon.

-Jews are the first to admit they aren't perfect.

I don't advocate any religion ..but those are my observations.

 

[goldcatt]

I have no idea what Catholics think. I can't speak to their practice. I do know that in my protestant upbringing, heaven and hell are important concepts. From my limited reading in Judaism, the concept of an afterlife is never mentioned. It is not a thing I have ever seen them talk about, so I assume they don't bother with it.

Among my limited jewish acquaintance, admiration for Adam Smith goes is served along with Bacon Cheeseburgers.

My understanding of how things work in Israel is that the Haredi parties line up with the hard left in economics, and the hard right on military matters.

I think you will agree that the OP is just totally wrong. And that Jewish religious views of mutual obligation line them up better with the left and the protestant ethic of every man for himself makes them very uncomfortable.

Of course you don't. You're a moron, who loves the sound of his own voice. That's why you go on and on, demonstrating your ignorance. You don't even know about the beliefs of your fellow christians or even your own sect. Protestants do not believe in "every man for himself". That's rightwing ideology

IOW, both you and the OP are totally wrong.

You can speak for all Jews, all Catholics and all Protestants now too?

My particular sect is more community based, but many do in fact still teach self-reliance as a virtue and the infamous "Protestant work ethic" with all that entails. Including the idea of pulling oneself up by the bootstraps and the concept of shame in accepting charity. Much depends on the particular sect's view of theological doctrines related to works, predestination and sometimes original sin. And don't forget the sects that teach modern concepts like the prosperity doctrine.

Might want to switch to a finer brush next time.

 

[sangha]

Having Jewish people in my family has helped me understand some things.

- For the most part the Jewish religion is about scholarship. And blindly accepting the Torah has always been frowned upon.

-Jews are the first to admit they aren't perfect.

I don't advocate any religion ..but those are my observations.

The Jewish religion is not really "about" education, but it does strongly encourage it. In order to be considered a man, a male must take part in his bar mitzvah, a religious ceremony that includes having the newly adult male read from the Torah. If you can't read, you can't be a man according to the Jewish traditions. Such literacy has been a jewish tradition back to times when literacy was unusual.

This tendency was further reinforced when Jews were prohibited from certain industries by various nations throughout history.Many of these industries were "trade" industries involved in the production of goods, so Jews were forced to earn a living in fields where literacy and numeracy were more important, like keeping shop.

And then there's the more general tendency of religious communities (of all religions) giving great respect to religious scholars.

And as far as "blindly accepting" any religious doctrine goes, that becomes hard given that the Jews do not have a Pope, or any singular religious figure or institution with the authority to speak on behalf of all of Judaism

 

[sangha]

I have no idea what Catholics think. I can't speak to their practice. I do know that in my protestant upbringing, heaven and hell are important concepts. From my limited reading in Judaism, the concept of an afterlife is never mentioned. It is not a thing I have ever seen them talk about, so I assume they don't bother with it.

Among my limited jewish acquaintance, admiration for Adam Smith goes is served along with Bacon Cheeseburgers.

My understanding of how things work in Israel is that the Haredi parties line up with the hard left in economics, and the hard right on military matters.

I think you will agree that the OP is just totally wrong. And that Jewish religious views of mutual obligation line them up better with the left and the protestant ethic of every man for himself makes them very uncomfortable.

Of course you don't. You're a moron, who loves the sound of his own voice. That's why you go on and on, demonstrating your ignorance. You don't even know about the beliefs of your fellow christians or even your own sect. Protestants do not believe in "every man for himself". That's rightwing ideology

IOW, both you and the OP are totally wrong.

You can speak for all Jews, all Catholics and all Protestants now too?

My particular sect is more community based, but many do in fact still teach self-reliance as a virtue and the infamous "Protestant work ethic" with all that entails. Including the idea of pulling oneself up by the bootstraps and the concept of shame in accepting charity. Much depends on the particular sect's view of theological doctrines related to works, predestination and sometimes original sin. And don't forget the sects that teach modern concepts like the prosperity doctrine.

Might want to switch to a finer brush next time.

I can't speak for all Jews, etc... but I can post facts about their religion.

And I haven't denied the existence of a Protestant work ethic. I have merely pointed out that is not "Every man for himself". As even you acknowledge, there is a lot more to the PWE than "every man for himself"

It seems that with the exceptions where you misuderstood what I said, we are in agreement.

 

[goldcatt]

You can speak for all Jews, all Catholics and all Protestants now too?

My particular sect is more community based, but many do in fact still teach self-reliance as a virtue and the infamous "Protestant work ethic" with all that entails. Including the idea of pulling oneself up by the bootstraps and the concept of shame in accepting charity. Much depends on the particular sect's view of theological doctrines related to works, predestination and sometimes original sin. And don't forget the sects that teach modern concepts like the prosperity doctrine.

Might want to switch to a finer brush next time.

I can't speak for all Jews, etc... but I can post facts about their religion.

And I haven't denied the existence of a Protestant work ethic. I have merely pointed out that is not "Every man for himself". As even you acknowledge, there is a lot more to the PWE than "every man for himself"

It seems that with the exceptions where you misuderstood what I said, we are in agreement.

Only because of your previously and oft-noted literacy problem.

But whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm not in the mood to give remedial lessons today. Carry on!

 

[sangha]

You can speak for all Jews, all Catholics and all Protestants now too?

My particular sect is more community based, but many do in fact still teach self-reliance as a virtue and the infamous "Protestant work ethic" with all that entails. Including the idea of pulling oneself up by the bootstraps and the concept of shame in accepting charity. Much depends on the particular sect's view of theological doctrines related to works, predestination and sometimes original sin. And don't forget the sects that teach modern concepts like the prosperity doctrine.

Might want to switch to a finer brush next time.

I can't speak for all Jews, etc... but I can post facts about their religion.

And I haven't denied the existence of a Protestant work ethic. I have merely pointed out that is not "Every man for himself". As even you acknowledge, there is a lot more to the PWE than "every man for himself"

It seems that with the exceptions where you misuderstood what I said, we are in agreement.

Only because of your previously and oft-noted literacy problem.

But whatever helps you sleep at night. I'm not in the mood to give remedial lessons today. Carry on!

Translation: You can't find any error in anything I've said

 

[Baruch Menachem]

My basic point is that the original OP is seriously wrong. I have to admit my knowledge of the depths of the practice is limited, but there are very good reasons why Jews are usually more prone to liberal ideas from differing values.

 

[sangha]

My basic point is that the original OP is seriously wrong. I have to admit my knowledge of the depths of the practice is limited, but there are very good reasons why Jews are usually more prone to liberal ideas from differing values.

But Jews AREN'T more prone to liberal ideas. Jews in the US may be, but that is not true of all Jews. Try throwing a loud party on a Saturday in Jerusalem

Jews are the ultimate conservatives who have successfully conserved their cultures, traditions, and values over millenia

 

[judyd]

My basic point is that the original OP is seriously wrong. I have to admit my knowledge of the depths of the practice is limited, but there are very good reasons why Jews are usually more prone to liberal ideas from differing values.

But Jews AREN'T more prone to liberal ideas. Jews in the US may be, but that is not true of all Jews. Try throwing a loud party on a Saturday in Jerusalem

Jews are the ultimate conservatives who have successfully conserved their cultures, traditions, and values over millenia

You can party hard after sundown on a Saturday in Jerusalem.

 

[Baruch Menachem]

But Jews AREN'T more prone to liberal ideas. Jews in the US may be, but that is not true of all Jews. Try throwing a loud party on a Saturday in Jerusalem

Jews are the ultimate conservatives who have successfully conserved their cultures, traditions, and values over millenia

Man o man, you make life hard on folks trying to have a conversation, don't you.

 

[sangha]

My basic point is that the original OP is seriously wrong. I have to admit my knowledge of the depths of the practice is limited, but there are very good reasons why Jews are usually more prone to liberal ideas from differing values.

But Jews AREN'T more prone to liberal ideas. Jews in the US may be, but that is not true of all Jews. Try throwing a loud party on a Saturday in Jerusalem

Jews are the ultimate conservatives who have successfully conserved their cultures, traditions, and values over millenia

You can party hard after sundown on a Saturday in Jerusalem.

True. I meant during the day.

 

[judyd]

But Jews AREN'T more prone to liberal ideas. Jews in the US may be, but that is not true of all Jews. Try throwing a loud party on a Saturday in Jerusalem

Jews are the ultimate conservatives who have successfully conserved their cultures, traditions, and values over millenia

You can party hard after sundown on a Saturday in Jerusalem.

True. I meant during the day.

I don't know where you're located, but I spent a good many years in the DC area, and the Jews in the metro area seem to have embraced their faith more seriously, and are going back to the the basics of their beliefs. I have seen more and more of them following the practice of stopping work before sundown on Friday, and observing the Sabbath, and getting more involved in their Synagogues.

 

[sangha]

You can party hard after sundown on a Saturday in Jerusalem.

True. I meant during the day.

I don't know where you're located, but I spent a good many years in the DC area, and the Jews in the metro area seem to have embraced their faith more seriously, and are going back to the the basics of their beliefs. I have seen more and more of them following the practice of stopping work before sundown on Friday, and observing the Sabbath, and getting more involved in their Synagogues.

In the last two decades, many non-religious Jews have come to re-embrace their religious roots after having been brought up in secular homes, at least in the US. There was also an large immigration of secular Jews coming from the former USSR and many of them have also become more religious since coming to the US.

 

[SmarterThanHick]

Having Jewish people in my family has helped me understand some things.

- For the most part the Jewish religion is about scholarship. And blindly accepting the Torah has always been frowned upon.

-Jews are the first to admit they aren't perfect.

I don't advocate any religion ..but those are my observations.

I think it's hard to draw conclusions on causation from correlation. My guess would be that judaism encourages scholarship as you said, and that it is well known that higher education also correlates with liberalism. Jews make up 0.2% of the world and hold 20% of nobel prizes. It doesn't surprise me that liberalism surfaces there.

 

[Lumpy 1]

I've often wondered why Jewish People are liberal, for me it doesn't quite fit. Then I ran across this rather long article explaining it but now I'm not sure that it's a fair assessment.
Admittedly... I'm a complete novice on this subject but I'm interested in understanding the issue better.

So my question... is this article a fair assessment?..

(Go to the link, this is just part of it)

-----------------------------

Beyond simple persecution, the Diaspora Jews have long suffered from serious psychopathologies, and in particular a sort of assimilationist self-hatred. While the early Zionists were rebelling against the religious authorities in Eastern European communities, it became clear fairly quickly that Zionism was also a rebellion against the tendencies by many assimilationist Jews to advocate national self-destruction. The Jewish socialist and communist Left in Eastern Europe, but also many Jewish liberals elsewhere, promoted radical assimilationism, where Jews would cut themselves off altogether from their Jewish culture and roots and assimilate aggressively into the surrounding majority cultures of the Russians, Poles, Hungarians, etc.

Theodore Herzl came from an assimilated home. He was a strong advocate of such constructive assimilationism, before his internal struggle that later led him to advocate Jewish nationhood. Western Jewry was dominated by a strange sort of assimilationism that first emerged long before World War II, although it had precedents and included elements taken from German Jewish enlightenment and German Reform Judaism. The latter had long advocated the denationalization of Jewish identity. In a nutshell, the innovation of German (and later American) Reform Judaism was that the Jews should "define themselves away" as a national entity; in its place they would self-define as ethnic-national members of the majority nations in their countries of residence, but with their own religion.

Is Liberalism Judaism?

This must be an excerpt from Mien Kampf, The Lost Chapters.

Wow.. I can only apologize for posting it then. I am sorry.

I'm interested in a better understanding which obviously I have to have. What would you recommend I read..? I feel like shit..

 

[goldcatt]

I've often wondered why Jewish People are liberal, for me it doesn't quite fit. Then I ran across this rather long article explaining it but now I'm not sure that it's a fair assessment.
Admittedly... I'm a complete novice on this subject but I'm interested in understanding the issue better.

So my question... is this article a fair assessment?..

(Go to the link, this is just part of it)

-----------------------------

Beyond simple persecution, the Diaspora Jews have long suffered from serious psychopathologies, and in particular a sort of assimilationist self-hatred. While the early Zionists were rebelling against the religious authorities in Eastern European communities, it became clear fairly quickly that Zionism was also a rebellion against the tendencies by many assimilationist Jews to advocate national self-destruction. The Jewish socialist and communist Left in Eastern Europe, but also many Jewish liberals elsewhere, promoted radical assimilationism, where Jews would cut themselves off altogether from their Jewish culture and roots and assimilate aggressively into the surrounding majority cultures of the Russians, Poles, Hungarians, etc.

Theodore Herzl came from an assimilated home. He was a strong advocate of such constructive assimilationism, before his internal struggle that later led him to advocate Jewish nationhood. Western Jewry was dominated by a strange sort of assimilationism that first emerged long before World War II, although it had precedents and included elements taken from German Jewish enlightenment and German Reform Judaism. The latter had long advocated the denationalization of Jewish identity. In a nutshell, the innovation of German (and later American) Reform Judaism was that the Jews should "define themselves away" as a national entity; in its place they would self-define as ethnic-national members of the majority nations in their countries of residence, but with their own religion.

Is Liberalism Judaism?

This must be an excerpt from Mien Kampf, The Lost Chapters.

Wow.. I can only apologize for posting it then. I am sorry.

I'm interested in a better understanding which obviously I have to have. What would you recommend I read..? I feel like shit..

I can assure you that when you see terms like "psychopathologies" and "assimilated self-hatred" in terms of Judaism, you've found yourself an anti-Semitic site.

I'm not Jewish, so I'll leave it to the experts who walk it every day to answer your question if they're so inclined. But I'll guarantee the answer will have nothing to do with Jews being crazy and being ashamed of themselves and their identity.

 

[Lumpy 1]

This must be an excerpt from Mien Kampf, The Lost Chapters.

Wow.. I can only apologize for posting it then. I am sorry.

I'm interested in a better understanding which obviously I have to have. What would you recommend I read..? I feel like shit..

I can assure you that when you see terms like "psychopathologies" and "assimilated self-hatred" in terms of Judaism, you've found yourself an anti-Semitic site.

I'm not Jewish, so I'll leave it to the experts who walk it every day to answer your question if they're so inclined. But I'll guarantee the answer will have nothing to do with Jews being crazy and being ashamed of themselves and their identity.

I'm certainly not anti-Semitic and I'm also certainly quite an idiot on this issue...I obviously noticed those terms but I figured they were related to a rift within the Jewish community.. Again I apologize...

 

[goldcatt]

Wow.. I can only apologize for posting it then. I am sorry.

I'm interested in a better understanding which obviously I have to have. What would you recommend I read..? I feel like shit..

I can assure you that when you see terms like "psychopathologies" and "assimilated self-hatred" in terms of Judaism, you've found yourself an anti-Semitic site.

I'm not Jewish, so I'll leave it to the experts who walk it every day to answer your question if they're so inclined. But I'll guarantee the answer will have nothing to do with Jews being crazy and being ashamed of themselves and their identity.

I'm certainly not anti-Semitic and I'm also certainly quite an idiot on this issue...I obviously noticed those terms but I figured they were related to a rift within the Jewish community.. Again I apologize...

There are divisions in the Jewish community, it's a large and diverse group just like Christians or any other major religion with different sects as well as different secular ideas. But I only know enough to be dangerous in that regard, so I'll shut up now and try to avoid putting my foot in my mouth.

Hey, a lot of people are uneducated about other religions or groups even within their own religion. It happens. I'm a member of a distinct minority sect myself, I'm used to it. But the negative connotations of certain words just in the sentence or two I read are a big tipoff that you're not getting an unbiased view.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Well .. I feel like I'm just out there hanging.. it's really quite uncomfortable. In other words I don't blame you for avoiding putting your foot in your mouth...

 

[L.K.Eder]

This must be an excerpt from Mien Kampf, The Lost Chapters.

Wow.. I can only apologize for posting it then. I am sorry.

I'm interested in a better understanding which obviously I have to have. What would you recommend I read..? I feel like shit..

I can assure you that when you see terms like "psychopathologies" and "assimilated self-hatred" in terms of Judaism, you've found yourself an anti-Semitic site.

I'm not Jewish, so I'll leave it to the experts who walk it every day to answer your question if they're so inclined. But I'll guarantee the answer will have nothing to do with Jews being crazy and being ashamed of themselves and their identity.

the author is a jewish right wing ideologue who hates leftists.