Jewish and Liberal...?

[Lumpy 1]

I've often wondered why Jewish People are liberal, for me it doesn't quite fit. Then I ran across this rather long article explaining it but now I'm not sure that it's a fair assessment.
Admittedly... I'm a complete novice on this subject but I'm interested in understanding the issue better.

So my question... is this article a fair assessment?..

(Go to the link, this is just part of it)

-----------------------------

Beyond simple persecution, the Diaspora Jews have long suffered from serious psychopathologies, and in particular a sort of assimilationist self-hatred. While the early Zionists were rebelling against the religious authorities in Eastern European communities, it became clear fairly quickly that Zionism was also a rebellion against the tendencies by many assimilationist Jews to advocate national self-destruction. The Jewish socialist and communist Left in Eastern Europe, but also many Jewish liberals elsewhere, promoted radical assimilationism, where Jews would cut themselves off altogether from their Jewish culture and roots and assimilate aggressively into the surrounding majority cultures of the Russians, Poles, Hungarians, etc.

Theodore Herzl came from an assimilated home. He was a strong advocate of such constructive assimilationism, before his internal struggle that later led him to advocate Jewish nationhood. Western Jewry was dominated by a strange sort of assimilationism that first emerged long before World War II, although it had precedents and included elements taken from German Jewish enlightenment and German Reform Judaism. The latter had long advocated the denationalization of Jewish identity. In a nutshell, the innovation of German (and later American) Reform Judaism was that the Jews should "define themselves away" as a national entity; in its place they would self-define as ethnic-national members of the majority nations in their countries of residence, but with their own religion.

Is Liberalism Judaism?

 

[California Girl]

Maybe because Jews, like every other 'group', are individuals?

 

[Lumpy 1]

Maybe because Jews, like every other 'group', are individuals?

I can understand what your saying but is this a fair assessment?

I'm trying to develop a base of understanding.

I'd rather not be shanghaied down the wrong path..

 

[Intense]

Just because one suffers from a persecution complex, doesn't mean that one isn't being persecuted. We are all human beings first and foremost, sometimes people need to be reminded or taught that. Running from Who and what you are is no solution, it's a symptom. Liberalism has become a disease, loss of Identity, loss of Free Will, Loss of Property, loss of Value and Ideal. Individual Perspective is the best we each have to offer the whole, it is a Treasure lost, when we are conditioned and controlled, sometimes, certain types of compromises are just not worth it. Blaming God, for our own mistakes, rather than adjusting course, compounds the difficulties ahead.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Well .. goodnight or good morning, I'm off to bed. I've been up all night watching movies including one on the Holocaust.

Catch you later..I'm tired..

 

[judyd]

Before the Civil Rights Amendment, the Jews received the same treatment as the blacks in the US and worked hard to get the Amendment passed. I remember when they were banned from country clubs, public swimming pools, certain neighborhoods, etc. So it is very easy to understand why they felt more inclined to side with the liberals who were sympathetic to their plight.

 

[Intense]

Before the Civil Rights Amendment, the Jews received the same treatment as the blacks in the US and worked hard to get the Amendment passed. I remember when they were banned from country clubs, public swimming pools, certain neighborhoods, etc. So it is very easy to understand why they felt more inclined to side with the liberals who were sympathetic to their plight.

Prejudice works both ways. It is a Human condition. We all have to work on it at one level or another. Liberalism is very intolerant to outside ideas. It places conformity much higher than it should and is very harsh on criticism. Not all criticism is harmful.

 

[judyd]

Before the Civil Rights Amendment, the Jews received the same treatment as the blacks in the US and worked hard to get the Amendment passed. I remember when they were banned from country clubs, public swimming pools, certain neighborhoods, etc. So it is very easy to understand why they felt more inclined to side with the liberals who were sympathetic to their plight.

Prejudice works both ways. It is a Human condition. We all have to work on it at one level or another. Liberalism is very intolerant to outside ideas. It places conformity much higher than it should and is very harsh on criticism. Not all criticism is harmful.

Criticism? They suffered through more than that. They came over here to escape the hitler regime, and then they were treated like crap. Those that went to South America did not seem to be exposed to the prejudice that they received here. It was something that I didn't understand at all as a child--well actually I don't understand it now.

The US is all about helping others gain their freedom, but "don't come here". After the fall of Vietnam I was living in Pennsylvania and saw the Vietnamese refugees being treated the same way. I imagine they probably vote with the liberals too.

We should either live up to our reputation as a country of refuge or just stop the sham.

 

[Intense]

Before the Civil Rights Amendment, the Jews received the same treatment as the blacks in the US and worked hard to get the Amendment passed. I remember when they were banned from country clubs, public swimming pools, certain neighborhoods, etc. So it is very easy to understand why they felt more inclined to side with the liberals who were sympathetic to their plight.

Prejudice works both ways. It is a Human condition. We all have to work on it at one level or another. Liberalism is very intolerant to outside ideas. It places conformity much higher than it should and is very harsh on criticism. Not all criticism is harmful.

Criticism? They suffered through more than that. They came over here to escape the hitler regime, and then they were treated like crap. Those that went to South America did not seem to be exposed to the prejudice that they received here. It was something that I didn't understand at all as a child--well actually I don't understand it now.

The US is all about helping others gain their freedom, but "don't come here". After the fall of Vietnam I was living in Pennsylvania and saw the Vietnamese refugees being treated the same way. I imagine they probably vote with the liberals too.

We should either live up to our reputation as a country of refuge or just stop the sham.

Life is Pain Judyd. We all Suffer. There is no excuse for treating others poorly. We are all Human Beings first. Learn to be impartial, it grows on you. You choose to either feed Justice or Injustice. It is not about Politics, but Individual Responsibility and decency.

 

[judyd]

Prejudice works both ways. It is a Human condition. We all have to work on it at one level or another. Liberalism is very intolerant to outside ideas. It places conformity much higher than it should and is very harsh on criticism. Not all criticism is harmful.

Criticism? They suffered through more than that. They came over here to escape the hitler regime, and then they were treated like crap. Those that went to South America did not seem to be exposed to the prejudice that they received here. It was something that I didn't understand at all as a child--well actually I don't understand it now.

The US is all about helping others gain their freedom, but "don't come here". After the fall of Vietnam I was living in Pennsylvania and saw the Vietnamese refugees being treated the same way. I imagine they probably vote with the liberals too.

We should either live up to our reputation as a country of refuge or just stop the sham.

Life is Pain Judyd. We all Suffer. There is no excuse for treating others poorly. We are all Human Beings first. Learn to be impartial, it grows on you. You choose to either feed Justice or Injustice. It is not about Politics, but Individual Responsibility and decency.

I never had to deal with being banned from certain places, but I can imagine it's quite hurtful. My uncle had a Jewish business partner, and he had to change the location of his daughter's wedding at his country club, because the club told him that he couldn't invite any blacks or Jews. They were banned from living in nicer neighborhoods too, and couldn't go to local swimming pools or amusement parks.

So with your dismissive "we all suffer", you're implying that you have experienced similar episodes in your life?

Yes, we are all human beings, but there is a significant number of assholes in the US who don't get it, and spend their lives trying to make others like Asians, Hispanics, Muslims, and anyone else who isn't white anglo-saxon, miserable. What's up with that?

 

[Intense]

Criticism? They suffered through more than that. They came over here to escape the hitler regime, and then they were treated like crap. Those that went to South America did not seem to be exposed to the prejudice that they received here. It was something that I didn't understand at all as a child--well actually I don't understand it now.

The US is all about helping others gain their freedom, but "don't come here". After the fall of Vietnam I was living in Pennsylvania and saw the Vietnamese refugees being treated the same way. I imagine they probably vote with the liberals too.

We should either live up to our reputation as a country of refuge or just stop the sham.

Life is Pain Judyd. We all Suffer. There is no excuse for treating others poorly. We are all Human Beings first. Learn to be impartial, it grows on you. You choose to either feed Justice or Injustice. It is not about Politics, but Individual Responsibility and decency.

I never had to deal with being banned from certain places, but I can imagine it's quite hurtful. My uncle had a Jewish business partner, and he had to change the location of his daughter's wedding at his country club, because the club told him that he couldn't invite any blacks or Jews. They were banned from living in nicer neighborhoods too, and couldn't go to local swimming pools or amusement parks.

So with your dismissive "we all suffer", you're implying that you have experienced similar episodes in your life?

Yes, we are all human beings, but there is a significant number of assholes in the US who don't get it, and spend their lives trying to make others like Asians, Hispanics, Muslims, and anyone else who isn't white anglo-saxon, miserable. What's up with that?

We are all of one Race, We are all related. There are people of all Ethnic Groups that do that, people of all political persuasions, it is a Human Condition. The Bullshit is in thinking it is anything other than that. The path to squashing that particular injustice is reaching out, building bridges, not throwing stones, calling names, Stereo-Typing, and condemning. Act through Conscience, not pack mentality. There is no substitute for impartiality. Truth and Justice are about making the right choices for the right reason, based on circumstance. The Ref keeps the playing field clear of obstruction, and encourages fair play, not picking winners and losers, and influencing out cone. It is the same with life.

 

[Retread Ol' 37]

I've often wondered why Jewish People are liberal, for me it doesn't quite fit. Then I ran across this rather long article explaining it but now I'm not sure that it's a fair assessment.
Admittedly... I'm a complete novice on this subject but I'm interested in understanding the issue better.

So my question... is this article a fair assessment?..

(Go to the link, this is just part of it)

-----------------------------

Beyond simple persecution, the Diaspora Jews have long suffered from serious psychopathologies, and in particular a sort of assimilationist self-hatred. While the early Zionists were rebelling against the religious authorities in Eastern European communities, it became clear fairly quickly that Zionism was also a rebellion against the tendencies by many assimilationist Jews to advocate national self-destruction. The Jewish socialist and communist Left in Eastern Europe, but also many Jewish liberals elsewhere, promoted radical assimilationism, where Jews would cut themselves off altogether from their Jewish culture and roots and assimilate aggressively into the surrounding majority cultures of the Russians, Poles, Hungarians, etc.

Theodore Herzl came from an assimilated home. He was a strong advocate of such constructive assimilationism, before his internal struggle that later led him to advocate Jewish nationhood. Western Jewry was dominated by a strange sort of assimilationism that first emerged long before World War II, although it had precedents and included elements taken from German Jewish enlightenment and German Reform Judaism. The latter had long advocated the denationalization of Jewish identity. In a nutshell, the innovation of German (and later American) Reform Judaism was that the Jews should "define themselves away" as a national entity; in its place they would self-define as ethnic-national members of the majority nations in their countries of residence, but with their own religion.

Is Liberalism Judaism?

This must be an excerpt from Mien Kampf, The Lost Chapters.

 

[goldcatt]

I've often wondered why Jewish People are liberal, for me it doesn't quite fit. Then I ran across this rather long article explaining it but now I'm not sure that it's a fair assessment.
Admittedly... I'm a complete novice on this subject but I'm interested in understanding the issue better.

So my question... is this article a fair assessment?..

(Go to the link, this is just part of it)

-----------------------------

Beyond simple persecution, the Diaspora Jews have long suffered from serious psychopathologies, and in particular a sort of assimilationist self-hatred. While the early Zionists were rebelling against the religious authorities in Eastern European communities, it became clear fairly quickly that Zionism was also a rebellion against the tendencies by many assimilationist Jews to advocate national self-destruction. The Jewish socialist and communist Left in Eastern Europe, but also many Jewish liberals elsewhere, promoted radical assimilationism, where Jews would cut themselves off altogether from their Jewish culture and roots and assimilate aggressively into the surrounding majority cultures of the Russians, Poles, Hungarians, etc.

Theodore Herzl came from an assimilated home. He was a strong advocate of such constructive assimilationism, before his internal struggle that later led him to advocate Jewish nationhood. Western Jewry was dominated by a strange sort of assimilationism that first emerged long before World War II, although it had precedents and included elements taken from German Jewish enlightenment and German Reform Judaism. The latter had long advocated the denationalization of Jewish identity. In a nutshell, the innovation of German (and later American) Reform Judaism was that the Jews should "define themselves away" as a national entity; in its place they would self-define as ethnic-national members of the majority nations in their countries of residence, but with their own religion.

Is Liberalism Judaism?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Nah, I don't think it works.

Rather than base relations directly with the diety to get into the reward section or avoid the penalty box, which is the Christian goal, the Jewish attitude is more community based than individual based. Since they don't do an afterlife, how they fit in the community and what they do for the community is how they judge adherence to the faith.

Also they are more into community regulation more intensely than protestent christianity. In christianity, your morals are pretty much between you and Gd. In judaism, it is more between you and those around you.

In Jewish circles, the more religious are more lefty, the less religious are more economically conservative. (in American terms)

And it is not a bit of 'self loathing.' It is part and parcel of religious expression for a long time. It is how the community survives, but taking care of each other.

 

[Intense]

Nah, I don't think it works.

Rather than base relations directly with the diety to get into the reward section or avoid the penalty box, which is the Christian goal, the Jewish attitude is more community based than individual based. Since they don't do an afterlife, how they fit in the community and what they do for the community is how they judge adherence to the faith.

Also they are more into community regulation more intensely than protestent christianity. In christianity, your morals are pretty much between you and Gd. In judaism, it is more between you and those around you.

In Jewish circles, the more religious are more lefty, the less religious are more economically conservative. (in American terms)

And it is not a bit of 'self loathing.' It is part and parcel of religious expression for a long time. It is how the community survives, but taking care of each other.

Actually it is about Individual Conscience. There is no bypassing it.

1 Kings, Chapter #8.

8:27 But will God indeed dwell on the earth? behold, the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house that I have builded?

8:28 Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day:

8:29 That thine eyes may be open toward this house night and day, even toward the place of which thou hast said, My name shall be there: that thou mayest hearken unto the prayer which thy servant shall make toward this place.

8:30 And hearken thou to the supplication of thy servant, and of thy people Israel, when they shall pray toward this place: and hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place: and when thou hearest, forgive.

8:31 If any man trespass against his neighbor, and an oath be laid upon him to cause him to swear, and the oath come before thine altar in this house:

8:32 Then hear thou in heaven, and do, and judge thy servants, condemning the wicked, to bring his way upon his head; and justifying the righteous, to give him according to his righteousness.

8:33 When thy people Israel be smitten down before the enemy, because they have sinned against thee, and shall turn again to thee, and confess thy name, and pray, and make supplication unto thee in this house:

8:34 Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy people Israel, and bring them again unto the land which thou gavest unto their fathers.

8:35 When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou afflictest them:

8:36 Then hear thou in heaven, and forgive the sin of thy servants, and of thy people Israel, that thou teach them the good way wherein they should walk, and give rain upon thy land, which thou hast given to thy people for an inheritance.

8:37 If there be in the land famine, if there be pestilence, blasting, mildew, locust, or if there be caterpillar; if their enemy besiege them in the land of their cities; whatsoever plague, whatsoever sickness there be;

8:38 What prayer and supplication soever be made by any man, or by all thy people Israel, which shall know every man the plague of his own heart, and spread forth his hands toward this house:

8:39 Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men

8:40 That they may fear thee all the days that they live in the land which thou gavest unto our fathers.

8:41 Moreover concerning a stranger, that is not of thy people Israel, but cometh out of a far country for thy name's sake;

8:42 (For they shall hear of thy great name, and of thy strong hand, and of thy stretched out arm when he shall come and pray toward this house;

8:43 Hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and do according to all that the stranger calleth to thee for: that all people of the earth may know thy name, to fear thee, as do thy people Israel; and that they may know that this house, which I have builded, is called by thy name.

8:44 If thy people go out to battle against their enemy, whithersoever thou shalt send them, and shall pray unto the LORD toward the city which thou hast chosen, and toward the house that I have built for thy name:

8:45 Then hear thou in heaven their prayer and their supplication, and maintain their cause.

8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

8:47 Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness;

8:48 And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name:

8:49 Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause,

8:50 And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them:

The Holy Bible Kings&Chapter=8



Here is a Link to Ezekiel on Salvation.

The Holy Bible

 

[sangha]

Nah, I don't think it works.

Rather than base relations directly with the diety to get into the reward section or avoid the penalty box, which is the Christian goal, the Jewish attitude is more community based than individual based. Since they don't do an afterlife, how they fit in the community and what they do for the community is how they judge adherence to the faith.

Also they are more into community regulation more intensely than protestent christianity. In christianity, your morals are pretty much between you and Gd. In judaism, it is more between you and those around you.

In Jewish circles, the more religious are more lefty, the less religious are more economically conservative. (in American terms)

And it is not a bit of 'self loathing.' It is part and parcel of religious expression for a long time. It is how the community survives, but taking care of each other.

You're wrong on almost every point

1) Catholics, who make up a large share of the worlds christians, believe that they require the clergy in order to have a relation with God and that individuals are incapable of having direct relation with Him.

2) Some Protestant sects do not believe in personal god, and therefore do not believe in having a relationship with this personal god

3) Judaism is all about individual behavior and belief

4) Jews do believe in an afterlife

5) Jews beleive they are judged by God, and by God alone (not the community) and that the judgement is not based on how they fit in the community (which is just absurd), but how close to God they are

6) Both Jews and Christians get their moral code from the same source: The Bible. The only difference is that Jews are more likely to actually respect and observe that moral code. Christians rarely do

7) In Jewish circles, the Orthodox Jews tend to be hard-right in all matters both political and economic

How did you get to be so stupid?

 

[Baruch Menachem]

Not being in the faith, I can't speak to individual tenants, and I may have been totally talking through my Kippah, but from what I can see, the attitude is that you owe obligations to the community at large in, not just to the diety. It is your obligation to repair the way things are, to succor those in need, to provide mutual support.

I do think the idea of self loathing is total and absolute garbage. It is more of a secular thing, it is not exclusively jewish but a general problem with folks who are totally against the restrictions of religion. Jews do seem to be overly afflicted with the attitude of "if a little is good, too much is better" Self loathing atheists are the norm, apostate jews make you wonder. Not that apostate catholics are much better.

 

[sangha]

Not being in the faith, I can't speak to individual tenants, and I may have been totally talking through my Kippah, but from what I can see, the attitude is that you owe obligations to the community at large in, not just to the diety. It is your obligation to repair the way things are, to succor those in need, to provide mutual support.

I do think the idea of self loathing is total and absolute garbage. It is more of a secular thing, it is not exclusively jewish but a general problem with folks who are totally against the restrictions of religion. Jews do seem to be overly afflicted with the attitude of "if a little is good, too much is better" Self loathing atheists are the norm, apostate jews make you wonder. Not that apostate catholics are much better.

Occams' Razor suggests that you're just full of shit. You love the sound of your own voice,

No Jew is required to do anything for a community that kills Jews. The Jewish Bible is full of tales of Jews killing entire populations in various communities. In wingnut world, that's "community values"

 

[Baruch Menachem]

I have no idea what Catholics think. I can't speak to their practice. I do know that in my protestant upbringing, heaven and hell are important concepts. From my limited reading in Judaism, the concept of an afterlife is never mentioned. It is not a thing I have ever seen them talk about, so I assume they don't bother with it.

Among my limited jewish acquaintance, admiration for Adam Smith goes is served along with Bacon Cheeseburgers.

My understanding of how things work in Israel is that the Haredi parties line up with the hard left in economics, and the hard right on military matters.

I think you will agree that the OP is just totally wrong. And that Jewish religious views of mutual obligation line them up better with the left and the protestant ethic of every man for himself makes them very uncomfortable.

 

[sangha]

I have no idea what Catholics think. I can't speak to their practice. I do know that in my protestant upbringing, heaven and hell are important concepts. From my limited reading in Judaism, the concept of an afterlife is never mentioned. It is not a thing I have ever seen them talk about, so I assume they don't bother with it.

Among my limited jewish acquaintance, admiration for Adam Smith goes is served along with Bacon Cheeseburgers.

My understanding of how things work in Israel is that the Haredi parties line up with the hard left in economics, and the hard right on military matters.

I think you will agree that the OP is just totally wrong. And that Jewish religious views of mutual obligation line them up better with the left and the protestant ethic of every man for himself makes them very uncomfortable.

Of course you don't. You're a moron, who loves the sound of his own voice. That's why you go on and on, demonstrating your ignorance. You don't even know about the beliefs of your fellow christians or even your own sect. Protestants do not believe in "every man for himself". That's rightwing ideology

IOW, both you and the OP are totally wrong.