Jesus was right, of course.

[K9Buck]

The Biblical definition of sin as everyone is born with, is not affected by the church politicizing it and making whitch trials out of it. Modern criminal law is politicized too and therefore made quite arbitrary.

Being born with sin is a ridiculous concept. It is not even rational. That is a major reason that I reject christianity.

Christianity, like a scientific subject, tries to keep true to reality. Even if it bites. The sin at birth is one of those things. You may not like it, but there is no point to fool yourself that it is something else. Same as science.

Well, if that works for you, fine, but I could only follow a religious philosophy that made sense, and "born with sin", does not. Frankly, it sounds kind of like a heavy metal rock band name.

A baby has not sinned. They have been born into a world of sin. They are born with the capacity to sin and, inevitably, will. If you disagree, then give me an example of an adult who has never sinned, aside from Jesus Christ and his mother Mary.

Mary was also a sinner. Don't know where you got that Mary is sinless BS. It's not in the Bible.

Where does it say otherwise?

 

[RWNJ]

Being born with sin is a ridiculous concept. It is not even rational. That is a major reason that I reject christianity.

Christianity, like a scientific subject, tries to keep true to reality. Even if it bites. The sin at birth is one of those things. You may not like it, but there is no point to fool yourself that it is something else. Same as science.

Well, if that works for you, fine, but I could only follow a religious philosophy that made sense, and "born with sin", does not. Frankly, it sounds kind of like a heavy metal rock band name.

A baby has not sinned. They have been born into a world of sin. They are born with the capacity to sin and, inevitably, will. If you disagree, then give me an example of an adult who has never sinned, aside from Jesus Christ and his mother Mary.

Mary was also a sinner. Don't know where you got that Mary is sinless BS. It's not in the Bible.

Where does it say otherwise?

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That includes Mary.

 

[K9Buck]

Christianity, like a scientific subject, tries to keep true to reality. Even if it bites. The sin at birth is one of those things. You may not like it, but there is no point to fool yourself that it is something else. Same as science.

Well, if that works for you, fine, but I could only follow a religious philosophy that made sense, and "born with sin", does not. Frankly, it sounds kind of like a heavy metal rock band name.

A baby has not sinned. They have been born into a world of sin. They are born with the capacity to sin and, inevitably, will. If you disagree, then give me an example of an adult who has never sinned, aside from Jesus Christ and his mother Mary.

Mary was also a sinner. Don't know where you got that Mary is sinless BS. It's not in the Bible.

Where does it say otherwise?

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That includes Mary.

Well "All" conclude Jesus.

So you believe that God would conceive Jesus in the womb of a sinful woman? Not a chance in Hell. Mary was pure, never sinned.

We can agree to disagree.

 

[RWNJ]

Well, if that works for you, fine, but I could only follow a religious philosophy that made sense, and "born with sin", does not. Frankly, it sounds kind of like a heavy metal rock band name.

A baby has not sinned. They have been born into a world of sin. They are born with the capacity to sin and, inevitably, will. If you disagree, then give me an example of an adult who has never sinned, aside from Jesus Christ and his mother Mary.

Mary was also a sinner. Don't know where you got that Mary is sinless BS. It's not in the Bible.

Where does it say otherwise?

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That includes Mary.

Well "All" conclude Jesus.

So you believe that God would conceive Jesus in the womb of a sinful woman? Not a chance in Hell. Mary was pure, never sinned.

We can agree to disagree.

I believe Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary was sinless.

OK! So, why couldn't Mary have been sinless? Let's look at two places in the book of Luke.

First, (Lk 2:22-24) states that after the birth of Jesus, Mary undertook purification rituals to make herself clean. She did this in accordance with Old Testament law (Lev 12:2-8). The law stated that purification after birth took 40 days after having a boy (80 days for a girl). At the end of the 40 days (or 80), (Lev 12:6-7) said that a woman must do this: "And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, FOR A SIN OFFERING, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: (7) Who shall offer it before the Lord, AND MAKE ATONEMENT FOR HER; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female" (caps emphasis mine).

Mary performed this ritual, with her sacrifice being "A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons" (Lk 2:24)(God allowed this for those who were poor: Lev 12:8). If Mary was born without sin, why did she undergo this purification ritual to be made clean, and for her atonement?

Secondly, (Lk 1:46-47) says, "And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, (47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOUR" (caps emphasis mine). Why did Mary need a Saviour if she was sinless?

In addition, the Bible emphasizes the sinlessness of Jesus in a number of places (2 Cor 5:21)(1 Pet 2:22)(1 Jn 3:5)(Heb 4:15)(1 Pet 1:19)(Jn 8:46). It is important to understand that in order to spend eternity with God in Heaven one day, God demands that we must be perfect and sinless just as He is (Jas 1:13)(Hab 1:13)(Ps 18:30). However, we will never attain perfection, nor be sinless. BUT, Jesus did this while on Earth! He lived the "righteous" and sinless life that we could never live. When we accept Jesus' payment for our sins, surrender our lives to Him, and place our trust in Him; His blood, shed on the cross, covers our sins (Col 1:14,20)(Eph 1:7)(Heb 10:16-19). The righteousness and sinlessness of Jesus' perfect life on Earth is "imputed" to us (counted or credited to our account)(2 Cor 5:19,21)(Rom 4:7-8,24-25)(1 Pet 3:18).

The Bible makes it plain over and over that apart from Jesus, ALL men (and women; which would include Mary) who have lived on this planet are sinners (Rom 3:10,23)(Eccl 7:20)(1 Jn 1:8,10)(Prov 20:9). Only God is sinless.

Was Mary (the mother of Jesus) sinless?


Case closed.

 

[K9Buck]

A baby has not sinned. They have been born into a world of sin. They are born with the capacity to sin and, inevitably, will. If you disagree, then give me an example of an adult who has never sinned, aside from Jesus Christ and his mother Mary.

Mary was also a sinner. Don't know where you got that Mary is sinless BS. It's not in the Bible.

Where does it say otherwise?

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That includes Mary.

Well "All" conclude Jesus.

So you believe that God would conceive Jesus in the womb of a sinful woman? Not a chance in Hell. Mary was pure, never sinned.

We can agree to disagree.

I believe Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary was sinless.

OK! So, why couldn't Mary have been sinless? Let's look at two places in the book of Luke.

First, (Lk 2:22-24) states that after the birth of Jesus, Mary undertook purification rituals to make herself clean. She did this in accordance with Old Testament law (Lev 12:2-8). The law stated that purification after birth took 40 days after having a boy (80 days for a girl). At the end of the 40 days (or 80), (Lev 12:6-7) said that a woman must do this: "And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, FOR A SIN OFFERING, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: (7) Who shall offer it before the Lord, AND MAKE ATONEMENT FOR HER; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female" (caps emphasis mine).

Mary performed this ritual, with her sacrifice being "A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons" (Lk 2:24)(God allowed this for those who were poor: Lev 12:8). If Mary was born without sin, why did she undergo this purification ritual to be made clean, and for her atonement?

Secondly, (Lk 1:46-47) says, "And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, (47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOUR" (caps emphasis mine). Why did Mary need a Saviour if she was sinless?

In addition, the Bible emphasizes the sinlessness of Jesus in a number of places (2 Cor 5:21)(1 Pet 2:22)(1 Jn 3:5)(Heb 4:15)(1 Pet 1:19)(Jn 8:46). It is important to understand that in order to spend eternity with God in Heaven one day, God demands that we must be perfect and sinless just as He is (Jas 1:13)(Hab 1:13)(Ps 18:30). However, we will never attain perfection, nor be sinless. BUT, Jesus did this while on Earth! He lived the "righteous" and sinless life that we could never live. When we accept Jesus' payment for our sins, surrender our lives to Him, and place our trust in Him; His blood, shed on the cross, covers our sins (Col 1:14,20)(Eph 1:7)(Heb 10:16-19). The righteousness and sinlessness of Jesus' perfect life on Earth is "imputed" to us (counted or credited to our account)(2 Cor 5:19,21)(Rom 4:7-8,24-25)(1 Pet 3:18).

The Bible makes it plain over and over that apart from Jesus, ALL men (and women; which would include Mary) who have lived on this planet are sinners (Rom 3:10,23)(Eccl 7:20)(1 Jn 1:8,10)(Prov 20:9). Only God is sinless.

Was Mary (the mother of Jesus) sinless?


Case closed.

Like I said, we can agree to disagree. I don't know for a FACT that she was sinless and you don't know for a FACT what she was a sinner. To believe you one has to believe that God conceived Jesus in a sinful womb, which makes no sense at all. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[RWNJ]

Mary was also a sinner. Don't know where you got that Mary is sinless BS. It's not in the Bible.

Where does it say otherwise?

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That includes Mary.

Well "All" conclude Jesus.

So you believe that God would conceive Jesus in the womb of a sinful woman? Not a chance in Hell. Mary was pure, never sinned.

We can agree to disagree.

I believe Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary was sinless.

OK! So, why couldn't Mary have been sinless? Let's look at two places in the book of Luke.

First, (Lk 2:22-24) states that after the birth of Jesus, Mary undertook purification rituals to make herself clean. She did this in accordance with Old Testament law (Lev 12:2-8). The law stated that purification after birth took 40 days after having a boy (80 days for a girl). At the end of the 40 days (or 80), (Lev 12:6-7) said that a woman must do this: "And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, FOR A SIN OFFERING, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: (7) Who shall offer it before the Lord, AND MAKE ATONEMENT FOR HER; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female" (caps emphasis mine).

Mary performed this ritual, with her sacrifice being "A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons" (Lk 2:24)(God allowed this for those who were poor: Lev 12:8). If Mary was born without sin, why did she undergo this purification ritual to be made clean, and for her atonement?

Secondly, (Lk 1:46-47) says, "And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, (47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOUR" (caps emphasis mine). Why did Mary need a Saviour if she was sinless?

In addition, the Bible emphasizes the sinlessness of Jesus in a number of places (2 Cor 5:21)(1 Pet 2:22)(1 Jn 3:5)(Heb 4:15)(1 Pet 1:19)(Jn 8:46). It is important to understand that in order to spend eternity with God in Heaven one day, God demands that we must be perfect and sinless just as He is (Jas 1:13)(Hab 1:13)(Ps 18:30). However, we will never attain perfection, nor be sinless. BUT, Jesus did this while on Earth! He lived the "righteous" and sinless life that we could never live. When we accept Jesus' payment for our sins, surrender our lives to Him, and place our trust in Him; His blood, shed on the cross, covers our sins (Col 1:14,20)(Eph 1:7)(Heb 10:16-19). The righteousness and sinlessness of Jesus' perfect life on Earth is "imputed" to us (counted or credited to our account)(2 Cor 5:19,21)(Rom 4:7-8,24-25)(1 Pet 3:18).

The Bible makes it plain over and over that apart from Jesus, ALL men (and women; which would include Mary) who have lived on this planet are sinners (Rom 3:10,23)(Eccl 7:20)(1 Jn 1:8,10)(Prov 20:9). Only God is sinless.

Was Mary (the mother of Jesus) sinless?


Case closed.

Like I said, we can agree to disagree. I don't know for a FACT that she was sinless and you don't know for a FACT what she was a sinner. To believe you one has to believe that God conceived Jesus in a sinful womb, which makes no sense at all. Thanks for the feedback.

Then why did Mary proclaim that Jesus was her savior? It's right there in Scripture. Mary was a sinner. You're ignorance is appalling. All have sinned. And for mary to be born sinless, her mother, and her mothers' mother...ect would all have to be born sinless, all the way back to Eve. Are you saying that they were all sinless? The truth is that the Bible never said Mary was sinless. You can believe whatever you want. I'll believe Gods word.

 

[anotherlife]

"original sin" is a "doctrine of demons" that was created and taught by men who are now deemed "saints" by Roman and the "Orthodox" "churches".
Men generally looked up to and respected by most all Trinitarians (Trinitarianism a major, possibly THE major, "doctine of demons")


We are born ignorant, neither good nor bad .... but we are born into a toxic environment due to Satan's influence on the world.

So ... all end up "sinning" .... however, all get opportunity to be saved/forgiven.

How can you doubt the Trinity? In Genesis, God said "Let US make man in OUR own image" Who do you think He was talking to? The Bible also states that all things were created by Him (Jesus) and for Him. And without Him was not anything made that was made. In Revelation, Jesus is declared to be King of kings and Lord of lords. There are many verses that declare that Jesus and God are one and the same. To say that you do not believe in the Trinity is to declare that you do not believe Gods word.

This is interesting from the point of view of the Quran, where the Holy Trinity is considered blasphemy. Usually religions converge, or at least admit agnosticism. But the Quran openly fights against the Trinity. So it looks like that the God of the Quran is not a real God.

The Holy Trinity also proves that Jesus is a supreme being, and prohibits lying. On the other hand, the Quran (as well as the Tora/Talmud) openly encourage lying on a religious basis which they call Teqiyya.

A supreme being needs no lie as he cannot lose. But Satan does, which puts the Quran, the Talmud, and the Atheists in the same category.

I'm glad that someone brought up the Trinity. That is another concept of Christianity that is utterly ridiculous.

The Jews were the first to declare that god is one. Christianity is an offshoot of judaism. But right away, they had a problem. If Jesus is the son of god, that makes him a god too. That makes two gods. Also, god the creator was not the same as god the father, so now we have three gods! Holy Multitheism, Batman, Christianity is reverting back to the days of the Romans who had all kinds of gods, like apollo, and mercury, zeus, etc.

Christian scholars thought this over for a couple of hundred years, and then decided, that the three gods are actually one god! Now, anyone who understands anything will likely say, "Uh......, excuse me, but you are just passing the issue by with semantics". But, in the end, the scholar's won (partly by wiping out the Christians who rejected the concept of the trinity). So, now, according to Christianity, three is actually one!

Nonsense.

9 Faith Groups that Deny the Trinity Doctrine

No, because even in the original ancient Hebrew text of the Torah, the single unitary God is always referenced in the plural. So some root aspects of the Holly trinity are present from the beginning. Even Buddhism acknowledges it in a way, through the doctrine of multiple aspects of God = multiple gods. It is only the Quran, the Talmud, the atheists, and modern authorities of the Torah, that oppose the holly Trinity.

 

[K9Buck]

Where does it say otherwise?

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That includes Mary.

Well "All" conclude Jesus.

So you believe that God would conceive Jesus in the womb of a sinful woman? Not a chance in Hell. Mary was pure, never sinned.

We can agree to disagree.

I believe Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary was sinless.

OK! So, why couldn't Mary have been sinless? Let's look at two places in the book of Luke.

First, (Lk 2:22-24) states that after the birth of Jesus, Mary undertook purification rituals to make herself clean. She did this in accordance with Old Testament law (Lev 12:2-8). The law stated that purification after birth took 40 days after having a boy (80 days for a girl). At the end of the 40 days (or 80), (Lev 12:6-7) said that a woman must do this: "And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, FOR A SIN OFFERING, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: (7) Who shall offer it before the Lord, AND MAKE ATONEMENT FOR HER; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female" (caps emphasis mine).

Mary performed this ritual, with her sacrifice being "A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons" (Lk 2:24)(God allowed this for those who were poor: Lev 12:8). If Mary was born without sin, why did she undergo this purification ritual to be made clean, and for her atonement?

Secondly, (Lk 1:46-47) says, "And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, (47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOUR" (caps emphasis mine). Why did Mary need a Saviour if she was sinless?

In addition, the Bible emphasizes the sinlessness of Jesus in a number of places (2 Cor 5:21)(1 Pet 2:22)(1 Jn 3:5)(Heb 4:15)(1 Pet 1:19)(Jn 8:46). It is important to understand that in order to spend eternity with God in Heaven one day, God demands that we must be perfect and sinless just as He is (Jas 1:13)(Hab 1:13)(Ps 18:30). However, we will never attain perfection, nor be sinless. BUT, Jesus did this while on Earth! He lived the "righteous" and sinless life that we could never live. When we accept Jesus' payment for our sins, surrender our lives to Him, and place our trust in Him; His blood, shed on the cross, covers our sins (Col 1:14,20)(Eph 1:7)(Heb 10:16-19). The righteousness and sinlessness of Jesus' perfect life on Earth is "imputed" to us (counted or credited to our account)(2 Cor 5:19,21)(Rom 4:7-8,24-25)(1 Pet 3:18).

The Bible makes it plain over and over that apart from Jesus, ALL men (and women; which would include Mary) who have lived on this planet are sinners (Rom 3:10,23)(Eccl 7:20)(1 Jn 1:8,10)(Prov 20:9). Only God is sinless.

Was Mary (the mother of Jesus) sinless?


Case closed.

Like I said, we can agree to disagree. I don't know for a FACT that she was sinless and you don't know for a FACT what she was a sinner. To believe you one has to believe that God conceived Jesus in a sinful womb, which makes no sense at all. Thanks for the feedback.

Then why did Mary proclaim that Jesus was her savior? It's right there in Scripture. Mary was a sinner. You're ignorance is appalling. All have sinned. And for mary to be born sinless, her mother, and her mothers' mother...ect would all have to be born sinless, all the way back to Eve. Are you saying that they were all sinless? The truth is that the Bible never said Mary was sinless. You can believe whatever you want. I'll believe Gods word.

Do you always act like a k*nt when someone has a different belief? By the way, dumbass, it's "your ignorance", not "you're ignorance", dumbass.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Fortunately for all of us, Canon Law was abandoned after the Middle Ages, or the church would still be turning witches over to the state to burn for heresy. mankind realized hundreds of years ago that the church's definition of "sin" was arbitrary, and lacked even common sense.

The Biblical definition of sin as everyone is born with, is not affected by the church politicizing it and making whitch trials out of it. Modern criminal law is politicized too and therefore made quite arbitrary.

Being born with sin is a ridiculous concept. It is not even rational. That is a major reason that I reject christianity.

Christianity, like a scientific subject, tries to keep true to reality. Even if it bites. The sin at birth is one of those things. You may not like it, but there is no point to fool yourself that it is something else. Same as science.

Well, if that works for you, fine, but I could only follow a religious philosophy that made sense, and "born with sin", does not. Frankly, it sounds kind of like a heavy metal rock band name.

A baby has not sinned. They have been born into a world of sin. They are born with the capacity to sin and, inevitably, will. If you disagree, then give me an example of an adult who has never sinned, aside from Jesus Christ and his mother Mary.

Do I sense that you are walking it back? A child dies at age one. That child has never sinned. In fact, he was as sin free as Jesus was at that age. Yes, or no?

 

[K9Buck]

The Biblical definition of sin as everyone is born with, is not affected by the church politicizing it and making whitch trials out of it. Modern criminal law is politicized too and therefore made quite arbitrary.

Being born with sin is a ridiculous concept. It is not even rational. That is a major reason that I reject christianity.

Christianity, like a scientific subject, tries to keep true to reality. Even if it bites. The sin at birth is one of those things. You may not like it, but there is no point to fool yourself that it is something else. Same as science.

Well, if that works for you, fine, but I could only follow a religious philosophy that made sense, and "born with sin", does not. Frankly, it sounds kind of like a heavy metal rock band name.

A baby has not sinned. They have been born into a world of sin. They are born with the capacity to sin and, inevitably, will. If you disagree, then give me an example of an adult who has never sinned, aside from Jesus Christ and his mother Mary.

Do I sense that you are walking it back? A child dies at age one. That child has never sinned. In fact, he was as sin free as Jesus was at that age. Yes, or no?

Yes.

I think I was trying to clarify my belief or interpretation of the concept that we are born sinful. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[Vandalshandle]

"original sin" is a "doctrine of demons" that was created and taught by men who are now deemed "saints" by Roman and the "Orthodox" "churches".
Men generally looked up to and respected by most all Trinitarians (Trinitarianism a major, possibly THE major, "doctine of demons")


We are born ignorant, neither good nor bad .... but we are born into a toxic environment due to Satan's influence on the world.

So ... all end up "sinning" .... however, all get opportunity to be saved/forgiven.

How can you doubt the Trinity? In Genesis, God said "Let US make man in OUR own image" Who do you think He was talking to? The Bible also states that all things were created by Him (Jesus) and for Him. And without Him was not anything made that was made. In Revelation, Jesus is declared to be King of kings and Lord of lords. There are many verses that declare that Jesus and God are one and the same. To say that you do not believe in the Trinity is to declare that you do not believe Gods word.

This is interesting from the point of view of the Quran, where the Holy Trinity is considered blasphemy. Usually religions converge, or at least admit agnosticism. But the Quran openly fights against the Trinity. So it looks like that the God of the Quran is not a real God.

The Holy Trinity also proves that Jesus is a supreme being, and prohibits lying. On the other hand, the Quran (as well as the Tora/Talmud) openly encourage lying on a religious basis which they call Teqiyya.

A supreme being needs no lie as he cannot lose. But Satan does, which puts the Quran, the Talmud, and the Atheists in the same category.

I'm glad that someone brought up the Trinity. That is another concept of Christianity that is utterly ridiculous.

The Jews were the first to declare that god is one. Christianity is an offshoot of judaism. But right away, they had a problem. If Jesus is the son of god, that makes him a god too. That makes two gods. Also, god the creator was not the same as god the father, so now we have three gods! Holy Multitheism, Batman, Christianity is reverting back to the days of the Romans who had all kinds of gods, like apollo, and mercury, zeus, etc.

Christian scholars thought this over for a couple of hundred years, and then decided, that the three gods are actually one god! Now, anyone who understands anything will likely say, "Uh......, excuse me, but you are just passing the issue by with semantics". But, in the end, the scholar's won (partly by wiping out the Christians who rejected the concept of the trinity). So, now, according to Christianity, three is actually one!

Nonsense.

9 Faith Groups that Deny the Trinity Doctrine

No, because even in the original ancient Hebrew text of the Torah, the single unitary God is always referenced in the plural. So some root aspects of the Holly trinity are present from the beginning. Even Buddhism acknowledges it in a way, through the doctrine of multiple aspects of God = multiple gods. It is only the Quran, the Talmud, the atheists, and modern authorities of the Torah, that oppose the holly Trinity.

Well, not that I care one way or the other, but either there is one god, or three gods, not both.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Being born with sin is a ridiculous concept. It is not even rational. That is a major reason that I reject christianity.

Christianity, like a scientific subject, tries to keep true to reality. Even if it bites. The sin at birth is one of those things. You may not like it, but there is no point to fool yourself that it is something else. Same as science.

Well, if that works for you, fine, but I could only follow a religious philosophy that made sense, and "born with sin", does not. Frankly, it sounds kind of like a heavy metal rock band name.

A baby has not sinned. They have been born into a world of sin. They are born with the capacity to sin and, inevitably, will. If you disagree, then give me an example of an adult who has never sinned, aside from Jesus Christ and his mother Mary.

Do I sense that you are walking it back? A child dies at age one. That child has never sinned. In fact, he was as sin free as Jesus was at that age. Yes, or no?

Yes.

I think I was trying to clarify my belief or interpretation of the concept that we are born sinful. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Congratulations! You have just overcome a major obstacle of mine against Christianity!

Now, about this Garden of Eden, and virgin birth BS.........

 

[Taz]

Jesus said "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

There is no shortage of soulless atheists here and elsewhere that hate Jesus and those that believe in him. Another prophecy fulfilled.

Nobody hates Jesus, some, like myself, just don't believe in the magical Jesus because, well, all you have is a book written by fairly ignorant people, so no actual proof of the Magic Jesus.

 

[K9Buck]

Jesus said "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

There is no shortage of soulless atheists here and elsewhere that hate Jesus and those that believe in him. Another prophecy fulfilled.

Nobody hates Jesus, some, like myself, just don't believe in the magical Jesus because, well, all you have is a book written by fairly ignorant people, so no actual proof of the Magic Jesus.

I'm not buying the atheist theory that the universe created itself and that life evolved from a rock. LOL. You probably shouldn't be calling anyone else "ignorant".

 

[Conservative65]

Jesus said "You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved."

There is no shortage of soulless atheists here and elsewhere that hate Jesus and those that believe in him. Another prophecy fulfilled.

Another nonsensical thread.

If one is an atheist, why would they "hate Jesus"?

Another idiot like you not understanding something. Stupid NL.

 

[RWNJ]

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. That includes Mary.

Well "All" conclude Jesus.

So you believe that God would conceive Jesus in the womb of a sinful woman? Not a chance in Hell. Mary was pure, never sinned.

We can agree to disagree.

I believe Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary was sinless.

OK! So, why couldn't Mary have been sinless? Let's look at two places in the book of Luke.

First, (Lk 2:22-24) states that after the birth of Jesus, Mary undertook purification rituals to make herself clean. She did this in accordance with Old Testament law (Lev 12:2-8). The law stated that purification after birth took 40 days after having a boy (80 days for a girl). At the end of the 40 days (or 80), (Lev 12:6-7) said that a woman must do this: "And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, FOR A SIN OFFERING, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: (7) Who shall offer it before the Lord, AND MAKE ATONEMENT FOR HER; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female" (caps emphasis mine).

Mary performed this ritual, with her sacrifice being "A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons" (Lk 2:24)(God allowed this for those who were poor: Lev 12:8). If Mary was born without sin, why did she undergo this purification ritual to be made clean, and for her atonement?

Secondly, (Lk 1:46-47) says, "And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, (47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOUR" (caps emphasis mine). Why did Mary need a Saviour if she was sinless?

In addition, the Bible emphasizes the sinlessness of Jesus in a number of places (2 Cor 5:21)(1 Pet 2:22)(1 Jn 3:5)(Heb 4:15)(1 Pet 1:19)(Jn 8:46). It is important to understand that in order to spend eternity with God in Heaven one day, God demands that we must be perfect and sinless just as He is (Jas 1:13)(Hab 1:13)(Ps 18:30). However, we will never attain perfection, nor be sinless. BUT, Jesus did this while on Earth! He lived the "righteous" and sinless life that we could never live. When we accept Jesus' payment for our sins, surrender our lives to Him, and place our trust in Him; His blood, shed on the cross, covers our sins (Col 1:14,20)(Eph 1:7)(Heb 10:16-19). The righteousness and sinlessness of Jesus' perfect life on Earth is "imputed" to us (counted or credited to our account)(2 Cor 5:19,21)(Rom 4:7-8,24-25)(1 Pet 3:18).

The Bible makes it plain over and over that apart from Jesus, ALL men (and women; which would include Mary) who have lived on this planet are sinners (Rom 3:10,23)(Eccl 7:20)(1 Jn 1:8,10)(Prov 20:9). Only God is sinless.

Was Mary (the mother of Jesus) sinless?


Case closed.

Like I said, we can agree to disagree. I don't know for a FACT that she was sinless and you don't know for a FACT what she was a sinner. To believe you one has to believe that God conceived Jesus in a sinful womb, which makes no sense at all. Thanks for the feedback.

Then why did Mary proclaim that Jesus was her savior? It's right there in Scripture. Mary was a sinner. You're ignorance is appalling. All have sinned. And for mary to be born sinless, her mother, and her mothers' mother...ect would all have to be born sinless, all the way back to Eve. Are you saying that they were all sinless? The truth is that the Bible never said Mary was sinless. You can believe whatever you want. I'll believe Gods word.

Do you always act like a k*nt when someone has a different belief? By the way, dumbass, it's "your ignorance", not "you're ignorance", dumbass.

How is quoting Scripture acting like a k*nt? What is a k*nt anyway? And I'm really sorry that you feel being a Grammar Nazi helps your case at all. I guess you never made a typo before.

 

[K9Buck]

Well "All" conclude Jesus.

So you believe that God would conceive Jesus in the womb of a sinful woman? Not a chance in Hell. Mary was pure, never sinned.

We can agree to disagree.

I believe Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary was sinless.

OK! So, why couldn't Mary have been sinless? Let's look at two places in the book of Luke.

First, (Lk 2:22-24) states that after the birth of Jesus, Mary undertook purification rituals to make herself clean. She did this in accordance with Old Testament law (Lev 12:2-8). The law stated that purification after birth took 40 days after having a boy (80 days for a girl). At the end of the 40 days (or 80), (Lev 12:6-7) said that a woman must do this: "And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, FOR A SIN OFFERING, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: (7) Who shall offer it before the Lord, AND MAKE ATONEMENT FOR HER; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female" (caps emphasis mine).

Mary performed this ritual, with her sacrifice being "A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons" (Lk 2:24)(God allowed this for those who were poor: Lev 12:8). If Mary was born without sin, why did she undergo this purification ritual to be made clean, and for her atonement?

Secondly, (Lk 1:46-47) says, "And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, (47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOUR" (caps emphasis mine). Why did Mary need a Saviour if she was sinless?

In addition, the Bible emphasizes the sinlessness of Jesus in a number of places (2 Cor 5:21)(1 Pet 2:22)(1 Jn 3:5)(Heb 4:15)(1 Pet 1:19)(Jn 8:46). It is important to understand that in order to spend eternity with God in Heaven one day, God demands that we must be perfect and sinless just as He is (Jas 1:13)(Hab 1:13)(Ps 18:30). However, we will never attain perfection, nor be sinless. BUT, Jesus did this while on Earth! He lived the "righteous" and sinless life that we could never live. When we accept Jesus' payment for our sins, surrender our lives to Him, and place our trust in Him; His blood, shed on the cross, covers our sins (Col 1:14,20)(Eph 1:7)(Heb 10:16-19). The righteousness and sinlessness of Jesus' perfect life on Earth is "imputed" to us (counted or credited to our account)(2 Cor 5:19,21)(Rom 4:7-8,24-25)(1 Pet 3:18).

The Bible makes it plain over and over that apart from Jesus, ALL men (and women; which would include Mary) who have lived on this planet are sinners (Rom 3:10,23)(Eccl 7:20)(1 Jn 1:8,10)(Prov 20:9). Only God is sinless.

Was Mary (the mother of Jesus) sinless?


Case closed.

Like I said, we can agree to disagree. I don't know for a FACT that she was sinless and you don't know for a FACT what she was a sinner. To believe you one has to believe that God conceived Jesus in a sinful womb, which makes no sense at all. Thanks for the feedback.

Then why did Mary proclaim that Jesus was her savior? It's right there in Scripture. Mary was a sinner. You're ignorance is appalling. All have sinned. And for mary to be born sinless, her mother, and her mothers' mother...ect would all have to be born sinless, all the way back to Eve. Are you saying that they were all sinless? The truth is that the Bible never said Mary was sinless. You can believe whatever you want. I'll believe Gods word.

Do you always act like a k*nt when someone has a different belief? By the way, dumbass, it's "your ignorance", not "you're ignorance", dumbass.

How is quoting Scripture acting like a k*nt? What is a k*nt anyway? And I'm really sorry that you feel being a Grammar Nazi helps your case at all. I guess you never made a typo before.

You were being an asshole simply because I believe Mary was without sin. If you're going to call someone "ignorant", you should probably make sure your spelling is correct.

 

[RWNJ]

I believe Scripture. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Mary was sinless.

OK! So, why couldn't Mary have been sinless? Let's look at two places in the book of Luke.

First, (Lk 2:22-24) states that after the birth of Jesus, Mary undertook purification rituals to make herself clean. She did this in accordance with Old Testament law (Lev 12:2-8). The law stated that purification after birth took 40 days after having a boy (80 days for a girl). At the end of the 40 days (or 80), (Lev 12:6-7) said that a woman must do this: "And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, FOR A SIN OFFERING, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: (7) Who shall offer it before the Lord, AND MAKE ATONEMENT FOR HER; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This is the law for her that hath born a male or a female" (caps emphasis mine).

Mary performed this ritual, with her sacrifice being "A pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons" (Lk 2:24)(God allowed this for those who were poor: Lev 12:8). If Mary was born without sin, why did she undergo this purification ritual to be made clean, and for her atonement?

Secondly, (Lk 1:46-47) says, "And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, (47) And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my SAVIOUR" (caps emphasis mine). Why did Mary need a Saviour if she was sinless?

In addition, the Bible emphasizes the sinlessness of Jesus in a number of places (2 Cor 5:21)(1 Pet 2:22)(1 Jn 3:5)(Heb 4:15)(1 Pet 1:19)(Jn 8:46). It is important to understand that in order to spend eternity with God in Heaven one day, God demands that we must be perfect and sinless just as He is (Jas 1:13)(Hab 1:13)(Ps 18:30). However, we will never attain perfection, nor be sinless. BUT, Jesus did this while on Earth! He lived the "righteous" and sinless life that we could never live. When we accept Jesus' payment for our sins, surrender our lives to Him, and place our trust in Him; His blood, shed on the cross, covers our sins (Col 1:14,20)(Eph 1:7)(Heb 10:16-19). The righteousness and sinlessness of Jesus' perfect life on Earth is "imputed" to us (counted or credited to our account)(2 Cor 5:19,21)(Rom 4:7-8,24-25)(1 Pet 3:18).

The Bible makes it plain over and over that apart from Jesus, ALL men (and women; which would include Mary) who have lived on this planet are sinners (Rom 3:10,23)(Eccl 7:20)(1 Jn 1:8,10)(Prov 20:9). Only God is sinless.

Was Mary (the mother of Jesus) sinless?


Case closed.

Like I said, we can agree to disagree. I don't know for a FACT that she was sinless and you don't know for a FACT what she was a sinner. To believe you one has to believe that God conceived Jesus in a sinful womb, which makes no sense at all. Thanks for the feedback.

Then why did Mary proclaim that Jesus was her savior? It's right there in Scripture. Mary was a sinner. You're ignorance is appalling. All have sinned. And for mary to be born sinless, her mother, and her mothers' mother...ect would all have to be born sinless, all the way back to Eve. Are you saying that they were all sinless? The truth is that the Bible never said Mary was sinless. You can believe whatever you want. I'll believe Gods word.

Do you always act like a k*nt when someone has a different belief? By the way, dumbass, it's "your ignorance", not "you're ignorance", dumbass.

How is quoting Scripture acting like a k*nt? What is a k*nt anyway? And I'm really sorry that you feel being a Grammar Nazi helps your case at all. I guess you never made a typo before.

You were being an asshole simply because I believe Mary was without sin. If you're going to call someone "ignorant", you should probably make sure your spelling is correct.

I did not call you ignorant. I said your ignorance is appalling. That is not rude, or an insult. It simply means you are misinformed. Perhaps you can show me the Scripture that says Mary was sinless. That would be a start.

 

[K9Buck]

Like I said, we can agree to disagree. I don't know for a FACT that she was sinless and you don't know for a FACT what she was a sinner. To believe you one has to believe that God conceived Jesus in a sinful womb, which makes no sense at all. Thanks for the feedback.

Then why did Mary proclaim that Jesus was her savior? It's right there in Scripture. Mary was a sinner. You're ignorance is appalling. All have sinned. And for mary to be born sinless, her mother, and her mothers' mother...ect would all have to be born sinless, all the way back to Eve. Are you saying that they were all sinless? The truth is that the Bible never said Mary was sinless. You can believe whatever you want. I'll believe Gods word.

Do you always act like a k*nt when someone has a different belief? By the way, dumbass, it's "your ignorance", not "you're ignorance", dumbass.

How is quoting Scripture acting like a k*nt? What is a k*nt anyway? And I'm really sorry that you feel being a Grammar Nazi helps your case at all. I guess you never made a typo before.

You were being an asshole simply because I believe Mary was without sin. If you're going to call someone "ignorant", you should probably make sure your spelling is correct.

I did not call you ignorant. I said your ignorance is appalling. That is not rude, or an insult. It simply means you are misinformed. Perhaps you can show me the Scripture that says Mary was sinless. That would be a start.

No thanks. I'm indifferent as to what you believe.

 

[RWNJ]

Then why did Mary proclaim that Jesus was her savior? It's right there in Scripture. Mary was a sinner. You're ignorance is appalling. All have sinned. And for mary to be born sinless, her mother, and her mothers' mother...ect would all have to be born sinless, all the way back to Eve. Are you saying that they were all sinless? The truth is that the Bible never said Mary was sinless. You can believe whatever you want. I'll believe Gods word.

Do you always act like a k*nt when someone has a different belief? By the way, dumbass, it's "your ignorance", not "you're ignorance", dumbass.

How is quoting Scripture acting like a k*nt? What is a k*nt anyway? And I'm really sorry that you feel being a Grammar Nazi helps your case at all. I guess you never made a typo before.

You were being an asshole simply because I believe Mary was without sin. If you're going to call someone "ignorant", you should probably make sure your spelling is correct.

I did not call you ignorant. I said your ignorance is appalling. That is not rude, or an insult. It simply means you are misinformed. Perhaps you can show me the Scripture that says Mary was sinless. That would be a start.

No thanks. I'm indifferent as to what you believe.

What's that supposed to mean? Are you saying you don't believe Scripture?