James Harrison returns sons' "participation" trophies

[Ravi]

Best quote I've heard, from our kid's grandpa.

"Kids need to compete and recognize winner, place and show...and scream at the rest to get their shit together. Those others will excel somewhere else...or be left totally behind....at the mercy of the Libtards.

Show = participate. Clue the old man in.

Show = third. Get a clue. Oh I forgot, you got trophies for showing up and never reached the big time AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Aside from the Super Bowl.

 

[Papageorgio]

You're obviously sitting on some kinda answer, so spill?

If it wasn't W, Bush, or Reagan, it HAS to be Nixon

It was sometime in the 70's. Won't you agree?

By the way....stop whining. I'm not talking politics here. You fucking professional victim.

No..I was a kid in the 70's...We NEVER received participation trophies.

Prolly because you never participated.

Sure I did, I played little league baseball many summers. I also was in a marching band, school newspaper, yearbook, FFA and on and on. I don't need a trophy to remind me I participated.

Now, with you and your memory and mental issues, I'm sure you need them.

Amazing how stung you are over my comment to someone else. Need recognition, much?

My apologies, I made a similar comment earlier. I can't see who wrote what in my I pad application. My comments about your memory still stands.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Best quote I've heard, from our kid's grandpa.

"Kids need to compete and recognize winner, place and show...and scream at the rest to get their shit together. Those others will excel somewhere else...or be left totally behind....at the mercy of the Libtards.

Show = participate. Clue the old man in.

Show = third. Get a clue. Oh I forgot, you got trophies for showing up and never reached the big time AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Aside from the Super Bowl.

What the hell does the Super Bowl have to do with it? You either win or lose.

 

[Ravi]

It was sometime in the 70's. Won't you agree?

By the way....stop whining. I'm not talking politics here. You fucking professional victim.

No..I was a kid in the 70's...We NEVER received participation trophies.

Prolly because you never participated.

Sure I did, I played little league baseball many summers. I also was in a marching band, school newspaper, yearbook, FFA and on and on. I don't need a trophy to remind me I participated.

Now, with you and your memory and mental issues, I'm sure you need them.

Amazing how stung you are over my comment to someone else. Need recognition, much?

My apologies, I made a similar comment earlier. I can't see who wrote what in my I pad application. My comments about your memory still stands.

Sounds like you are the one with memory and mental issues. You might want to get that checked.

 

[Ravi]

Best quote I've heard, from our kid's grandpa.

"Kids need to compete and recognize winner, place and show...and scream at the rest to get their shit together. Those others will excel somewhere else...or be left totally behind....at the mercy of the Libtards.

Show = participate. Clue the old man in.

Show = third. Get a clue. Oh I forgot, you got trophies for showing up and never reached the big time AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Aside from the Super Bowl.

What the hell does the Super Bowl have to do with it? You either win or lose.

Losers get rings.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

It's just different parenting styles. I'm not condemning anyone and I don't think you are either. But some of us want our kids to learn correct values. What I told my kids is this: "Do you know what reward I get each day for just showing up for work? I don't get fired." They've also seen my trophies and ribbons for first place in many competitions. Anything other than first place I threw away decades ago. This is what I want them to learn, that striving for best is better and when it's achieved, then you bring home a trophy.

I understand that and perhaps competitive people have competitive children. However many people aren't that competitive, they don't want their kids to be ruled the whole time by looking over their shoulder with envy, they're fine earning not so much money and doing their job and going home.

The issue here, I'd say, is about society in general. Participation trophies. I don't have a problem with them, I don't like them. We had some competition for kids and one kid, about six years old, was ecstatic with his medal. The other kids knew they'd lost. This kid didn't care and it made his day to go home with one.

So the giving of participation rewards isn't so bad, even if I don't understand it. What I find strange is that kids didn't win, and then the parent went and did something so negative that it makes no sense. The kids went to a competition, they did what they did and they got what they got for that. To then say "oh, sorry kids, you did this and received what you deserved to received but now I'm taking it away" is just weird.

I'd bet the father is UBER competitive and pushing his kids so much that he's causing all sorts of issues. Maybe I'm wrong. But I doubt it.

I know that taking the trophy away after the fact is what you're hung up on. Honestly what I would do would depend on which child I was dealing with. My 12 year old son would understand and agrees with me that trophies are for winners. My 7 year old I wouldn't dream of depriving of a trophy. He's high functioning autistic and I'm sure you already got an image in your head of how that would go down! My 3 year old daughter and 18 month son are too young to worry about just yet, but I'm starting to teach my girl to strive for more than just acceptable.

So that's one out of four who would understand. Maybe this dad has me beat with 2 sons who understand the lesson. Maybe like me, he knows best what his kids can handle. What do you think?

 

[Papageorgio]

You're obviously sitting on some kinda answer, so spill?

If it wasn't W, Bush, or Reagan, it HAS to be Nixon

It was sometime in the 70's. Won't you agree?

By the way....stop whining. I'm not talking politics here. You fucking professional victim.

No..I was a kid in the 70's...We NEVER received participation trophies.

Sure we did. Every player got some kind of memento to remember the team by. Maybe they didn't like you enough to give you one.

Not any of the groups I was with gave out silly things like that. Of course I wasn't in the Special Olympics like you were, I do know they gave them to you and the other kids.

Look at you making fun of special needs kids.

Nothing wrong with special needs children. They are just like everyone else. Are you ashamed at those that play in the Special Olympics?

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Best quote I've heard, from our kid's grandpa.

"Kids need to compete and recognize winner, place and show...and scream at the rest to get their shit together. Those others will excel somewhere else...or be left totally behind....at the mercy of the Libtards.

Show = participate. Clue the old man in.

Show = third. Get a clue. Oh I forgot, you got trophies for showing up and never reached the big time AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Aside from the Super Bowl.

What the hell does the Super Bowl have to do with it? You either win or lose.

Losers get rings.

They shouldn't get shit, they are being rewarded for failing

 

[Papageorgio]

No..I was a kid in the 70's...We NEVER received participation trophies.

Prolly because you never participated.

Sure I did, I played little league baseball many summers. I also was in a marching band, school newspaper, yearbook, FFA and on and on. I don't need a trophy to remind me I participated.

Now, with you and your memory and mental issues, I'm sure you need them.

Amazing how stung you are over my comment to someone else. Need recognition, much?

My apologies, I made a similar comment earlier. I can't see who wrote what in my I pad application. My comments about your memory still stands.

Sounds like you are the one with memory and mental issues. You might want to get that checked.

Thank you for your faux concerns over health.

 

[LoneLaugher]

There is a kid on a team who never got a hit and never made a catch. He's only put in games for one at bat and two defensive innings in every game....as required by the rules. His team, however came in first place in the league.

Should he get a trophy?

That team moved on to the district tournament and lost four games by scores of 15-0, 12-0, 9-0 and 18-0 and was the first team eliminated. They were horrendously bad. Should they be forced to return their trophies that they got for winning their league?

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

Nonsense. Kids aren't idiots. They understand the difference between participation and achievement.

You don't reward mediocrity with trophies. You're simply teaching a child just showing up is good enough and it's not

Again, you don't think kids recognize the difference between acknowledging participation and rewarding achievement? This is just silly guys. There's nothing at all wrong with giving kids a memento to remember their experiences, and they know such a "trophy" isn't a reward.

I really think a lot of you are missing the point with the "participation trophies". I know there are some dweebs out there opposed to any kind of competition, but it's fine and valid to recognize good faith participation, even if the participants didn't excel. It's a silly thing to get upset about in any case.

So give a kid a participation banner or memento but don't give a kid who just showed up the same awards as the kids who practiced hard, competed and won. You are just teaching that hard work, dedication and excelling means nothing because the under achievers are rewarded the same way. Those same under achievers will grow up expecting to be rewarded the same as the producers in school, careers and in life.

Our girls are in gymnastics and each of those kids know they will only receive medals or trophies if they finish 3rd or better, they practice hard and are dedicated because they want to reach that podium, if everybody gets to go to podium it takes away from what the real achievers accomplished. I don' want that for our children, I want them to realize that the hard work and dedication reaps rewards and they are not going to get a "good feeling" type award because they showed up. It defeats the spirit of the competition

Let's start all over.
I understand that you are doing what is best for your girls grow up as a good person and successful.
But my argument with you is totally different. I keep giving you an example but we are not connecting.
I never mentioned about 2nd or 3rd place getting a trophy. I never mentioned giving a trophy for kids just for the heck of showing up.
I'm talking about giving trophy that won the championship first place. Can you please tell me where is the disconnection here?

My understanding is the father in the article had his sons return the trophies because they were participation trophies. Everyone got one or that's what it implies. I don't have an issue with all team members that participate on a team and that team winning a championship receiving awards, that is a team effort. When I was in HS our football team won state two of the four years I was a student, the better athletes had letter man jackets but all the team members were given a patch signifying they were on a championship team, the ones with jackets put them on the jackets and I suppose the ones that didn't displayed them like an award.. Gymnastics is different, it's more of an individual sport (although they do compete as a team in certain meets) that is where I disagree with everyone competing receiving an award. I've watched these kids practice and I've seen the agony and tears as they strive to be the best and I also see some of them staring off into space, laughing and just basically showing up, it's not fair to the ones giving 100% for the ones giving 50% to get the same awards. Plus I see the pride on their faces when they go to podium, they know they have done it, all that work and practice paid off. That's their moment to shine and be that brightest burning flame, if everyone gets an award it tarnishes that.

One of the problems is they mass produce these plastic pieces of shit in China and sell them cheap.

I'm thinking of the trophy like described in "Where The Red Fern Grows". It was plated in gold with custom inscription work, fashioned by a true craftsman for a very special competition that happened once a year. The competitors would practice all year and would have to be certified with a number of skins before being allowed to participate in the Ozark coon hunt that drew competitors from states all around. Only one of them would walk away with that trophy.

It's my belief that we are being deprived of passion, fiercely striving to be the best and get the prize. Instead, we give kids a plastic POS and tell them how PROUD we are of them. I think that's why so many Americans peak at the age of 8.

 

[charwin95]

Nonsense. Kids aren't idiots. They understand the difference between participation and achievement.

You don't reward mediocrity with trophies. You're simply teaching a child just showing up is good enough and it's not

Again, you don't think kids recognize the difference between acknowledging participation and rewarding achievement? This is just silly guys. There's nothing at all wrong with giving kids a memento to remember their experiences, and they know such a "trophy" isn't a reward.

I really think a lot of you are missing the point with the "participation trophies". I know there are some dweebs out there opposed to any kind of competition, but it's fine and valid to recognize good faith participation, even if the participants didn't excel. It's a silly thing to get upset about in any case.

So give a kid a participation banner or memento but don't give a kid who just showed up the same awards as the kids who practiced hard, competed and won. You are just teaching that hard work, dedication and excelling means nothing because the under achievers are rewarded the same way. Those same under achievers will grow up expecting to be rewarded the same as the producers in school, careers and in life.

Our girls are in gymnastics and each of those kids know they will only receive medals or trophies if they finish 3rd or better, they practice hard and are dedicated because they want to reach that podium, if everybody gets to go to podium it takes away from what the real achievers accomplished. I don' want that for our children, I want them to realize that the hard work and dedication reaps rewards and they are not going to get a "good feeling" type award because they showed up. It defeats the spirit of the competition

Let's start all over.
I understand that you are doing what is best for your girls grow up as a good person and successful.
But my argument with you is totally different. I keep giving you an example but we are not connecting.
I never mentioned about 2nd or 3rd place getting a trophy. I never mentioned giving a trophy for kids just for the heck of showing up.
I'm talking about giving trophy that won the championship first place. Can you please tell me where is the disconnection here?

My understanding is the father in the article had his sons return the trophies because they were participation trophies. Everyone got one or that's what it implies. I don't have an issue with all team members that participate on a team and that team winning a championship receiving awards, that is a team effort. When I was in HS our football team won state two of the four years I was a student, the better athletes had letter man jackets but all the team members were given a patch signifying they were on a championship team, the ones with jackets put them on the jackets and I suppose the ones that didn't displayed them like an award.. Gymnastics is different, it's more of an individual sport (although they do compete as a team in certain meets) that is where I disagree with everyone competing receiving an award. I've watched these kids practice and I've seen the agony and tears as they strive to be the best and I also see some of them staring off into space, laughing and just basically showing up, it's not fair to the ones giving 100% for the ones giving 50% to get the same awards. Plus I see the pride on their faces when they go to podium, they know they have done it, all that work and practice paid off. That's their moment to shine and be that brightest burning flame, if everyone gets an award it tarnishes that.

We are still not communicating. Your understanding? I never mentioned Harrison to you and that truck driver non of that in my post. You gave me this long explanation that has nothing to do what I'm asking you. My argument with you was. Why you disagree giving trophy to a championship team, number one? You did not understand and you refused to understand but you attacked me with the help of that truck driver.
BTW I have 4 grownup kids. All working in my company.

 

[frigidweirdo]

It's just different parenting styles. I'm not condemning anyone and I don't think you are either. But some of us want our kids to learn correct values. What I told my kids is this: "Do you know what reward I get each day for just showing up for work? I don't get fired." They've also seen my trophies and ribbons for first place in many competitions. Anything other than first place I threw away decades ago. This is what I want them to learn, that striving for best is better and when it's achieved, then you bring home a trophy.

I understand that and perhaps competitive people have competitive children. However many people aren't that competitive, they don't want their kids to be ruled the whole time by looking over their shoulder with envy, they're fine earning not so much money and doing their job and going home.

The issue here, I'd say, is about society in general. Participation trophies. I don't have a problem with them, I don't like them. We had some competition for kids and one kid, about six years old, was ecstatic with his medal. The other kids knew they'd lost. This kid didn't care and it made his day to go home with one.

So the giving of participation rewards isn't so bad, even if I don't understand it. What I find strange is that kids didn't win, and then the parent went and did something so negative that it makes no sense. The kids went to a competition, they did what they did and they got what they got for that. To then say "oh, sorry kids, you did this and received what you deserved to received but now I'm taking it away" is just weird.

I'd bet the father is UBER competitive and pushing his kids so much that he's causing all sorts of issues. Maybe I'm wrong. But I doubt it.

I know that taking the trophy away after the fact is what you're hung up on. Honestly what I would do would depend on which child I was dealing with. My 12 year old son would understand and agrees with me that trophies are for winners. My 7 year old I wouldn't dream of depriving of a trophy. He's high functioning autistic and I'm sure you already got an image in your head of how that would go down! My 3 year old daughter and 18 month son are too young to worry about just yet, but I'm starting to teach my girl to strive for more than just acceptable.

So that's one out of four who would understand. Maybe this dad has me beat with 2 sons who understand the lesson. Maybe like me, he knows best what his kids can handle. What do you think?

I agree it can depend on the kid. Some kids are very competitive. However if a kid is so competitive they'll see the participation trophy for what it is. Does it need to be taken away? Not really.

My problem is taking a positive and turning into a negative needlessly. Children should be able to make up their own minds about what things are. Do they need to be pushed to be competitive? Usually not. Usually the competitive nature of the sport, the actual winning or losing should be doing that for them in the first place.

 

[frigidweirdo]

One of the problems is they mass produce these plastic pieces of shit in China and sell them cheap.

I'm thinking of the trophy like described in "Where The Red Fern Grows". It was plated in gold with custom inscription work, fashioned by a true craftsman for a very special competition that happened once a year. The competitors would practice all year and would have to be certified with a number of skins before being allowed to participate in the Ozark coon hunt that drew competitors from states all around. Only one of them would walk away with that trophy.

It's my belief that we are being deprived of passion, fiercely striving to be the best and get the prize. Instead, we give kids a plastic POS and tell them how PROUD we are of them. I think that's why so many Americans peak at the age of 8.

The problem is you're dealing with many types of brains.

I know kids who give up at the slightest sign of difficulty and others who will fight long after there's no point. And everything in between. One size doesn't fit all.

What motivates a child to do better? It's not always losing. Some kids lose and say "what's the point? I'm never going to win anyway" You just failed with motivation. Participation trophies can help some kids. It can hinder other kids.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Participation trophies ruin the competitive spirit.

Dude, lets get real here. If receiving a $5 trophy makes your kid lose his competitive spirit - he never had a fucking shot to begin with. Fuck's sakes, if he sucks at whatever sport he plays - its NOT because he's getting schwag for participating. That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Its because he doesn't practice hard enough or is out of shape or is just plain clumsy or maybe he doesn't even really want to play and is just doing it because you'll be an asshole to him if he doesn't.

Returning a participation trophy because you didn't earn it is like returning a free pen you got for opening a bank account because you didn't pay for it. In other words - no one gives a shit.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

One of the problems is they mass produce these plastic pieces of shit in China and sell them cheap.

I'm thinking of the trophy like described in "Where The Red Fern Grows". It was plated in gold with custom inscription work, fashioned by a true craftsman for a very special competition that happened once a year. The competitors would practice all year and would have to be certified with a number of skins before being allowed to participate in the Ozark coon hunt that drew competitors from states all around. Only one of them would walk away with that trophy.

It's my belief that we are being deprived of passion, fiercely striving to be the best and get the prize. Instead, we give kids a plastic POS and tell them how PROUD we are of them. I think that's why so many Americans peak at the age of 8.

The problem is you're dealing with many types of brains.

I know kids who give up at the slightest sign of difficulty and others who will fight long after there's no point. And everything in between. One size doesn't fit all.

What motivates a child to do better? It's not always losing. Some kids lose and say "what's the point? I'm never going to win anyway" You just failed with motivation. Participation trophies can help some kids. It can hinder other kids.

All the more reason to let the parent make this decision based on their knowledge of their own kids. I know my 4 half-breeds very well, what they're capable of and what they need. My wife and I can even take our autistic son out to dinner because we know how to put him in control of his experience and avoid triggers that would cause an outburst. That kind of familiarity does not come easy. It's why I'm reticent to judge this father. I assume he knows his boys well enough to do this.

And I disagree that having meaningless trophies is "positive" and taking them away is "negative". Perhaps you might consider how some might see the exact opposite.

 

[frigidweirdo]

All the more reason to let the parent make this decision based on their knowledge of their own kids. I know my 4 half-breeds very well, what they're capable of and what they need. My wife and I can even take our autistic son out to dinner because we know how to put him in control of his experience and avoid triggers that would cause an outburst. That kind of familiarity does not come easy. It's why I'm reticent to judge this father. I assume he knows his boys well enough to do this.

And I disagree that having meaningless trophies is "positive" and taking them away is "negative". Perhaps you might consider how some might see the exact opposite.

Sure, it does need to be done at an individual level.

However, people say we shouldn't judge others or criticize them. I disagree. We do this in order to think about the best way forward if we have to make such decisions in the future. Many parents don't think and just do based upon their own way. Which is often done to be the opposite of their father or mother who oppressed them. So they then go oppress their kids with their "magic formula" which won't work.

An example can be seen with royals. Often Kings would be the opposite of their father. George VI of England had a stammer because he was so nervous because he father, George V was so overbearing. Probably because his father, Edward VII was such a mild mannered guy.

Parents often think they know best, but haven't done much thinking to get to this point.

You sound like you've thought about this. But many don't.

 

[Mac1958]

Excellent. Good for him. HBO's Real Sports did a segment on this. That's a lousy thing to do to a kid, all in the name of phony "self esteem". .

You're not helping a child by doing this, in fact it's the complete opposite. They learn to be complacent and have no competitive drive and later in life they will suffer for it

We pump our kids full of phony "self esteem" and the results are predictable: Confident Idiots American Students Growing More Confident Less Capable - The College Fix
.

I despise this notion of self esteem....It has helped create a couple generations of self absorbed self involved narcissistic little brats who feel entitled to anything because they want it. Their parents have sheltered them from any notion of disappointment. Told them how great they are. The term "helicopter parents" applies to a T...

Exactly right.
.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Excellent. Good for him. HBO's Real Sports did a segment on this. That's a lousy thing to do to a kid, all in the name of phony "self esteem". .

You're not helping a child by doing this, in fact it's the complete opposite. They learn to be complacent and have no competitive drive and later in life they will suffer for it

We pump our kids full of phony "self esteem" and the results are predictable: Confident Idiots American Students Growing More Confident Less Capable - The College Fix
.

I despise this notion of self esteem....It has helped create a couple generations of self absorbed self involved narcissistic little brats who feel entitled to anything because they want it. Their parents have sheltered them from any notion of disappointment. Told them how great they are. The term "helicopter parents" applies to a T...

Exactly right.
.

Nope. Not even close to being right.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

You don't reward mediocrity with trophies. You're simply teaching a child just showing up is good enough and it's not

Again, you don't think kids recognize the difference between acknowledging participation and rewarding achievement? This is just silly guys. There's nothing at all wrong with giving kids a memento to remember their experiences, and they know such a "trophy" isn't a reward.

I really think a lot of you are missing the point with the "participation trophies". I know there are some dweebs out there opposed to any kind of competition, but it's fine and valid to recognize good faith participation, even if the participants didn't excel. It's a silly thing to get upset about in any case.

So give a kid a participation banner or memento but don't give a kid who just showed up the same awards as the kids who practiced hard, competed and won. You are just teaching that hard work, dedication and excelling means nothing because the under achievers are rewarded the same way. Those same under achievers will grow up expecting to be rewarded the same as the producers in school, careers and in life.

Our girls are in gymnastics and each of those kids know they will only receive medals or trophies if they finish 3rd or better, they practice hard and are dedicated because they want to reach that podium, if everybody gets to go to podium it takes away from what the real achievers accomplished. I don' want that for our children, I want them to realize that the hard work and dedication reaps rewards and they are not going to get a "good feeling" type award because they showed up. It defeats the spirit of the competition

Let's start all over.
I understand that you are doing what is best for your girls grow up as a good person and successful.
But my argument with you is totally different. I keep giving you an example but we are not connecting.
I never mentioned about 2nd or 3rd place getting a trophy. I never mentioned giving a trophy for kids just for the heck of showing up.
I'm talking about giving trophy that won the championship first place. Can you please tell me where is the disconnection here?

My understanding is the father in the article had his sons return the trophies because they were participation trophies. Everyone got one or that's what it implies. I don't have an issue with all team members that participate on a team and that team winning a championship receiving awards, that is a team effort. When I was in HS our football team won state two of the four years I was a student, the better athletes had letter man jackets but all the team members were given a patch signifying they were on a championship team, the ones with jackets put them on the jackets and I suppose the ones that didn't displayed them like an award.. Gymnastics is different, it's more of an individual sport (although they do compete as a team in certain meets) that is where I disagree with everyone competing receiving an award. I've watched these kids practice and I've seen the agony and tears as they strive to be the best and I also see some of them staring off into space, laughing and just basically showing up, it's not fair to the ones giving 100% for the ones giving 50% to get the same awards. Plus I see the pride on their faces when they go to podium, they know they have done it, all that work and practice paid off. That's their moment to shine and be that brightest burning flame, if everyone gets an award it tarnishes that.

We are still not communicating. Your understanding? I never mentioned Harrison to you and that truck driver non of that in my post. You gave me this long explanation that has nothing to do what I'm asking you. My argument with you was. Why you disagree giving trophy to a championship team, number one? You did not understand and you refused to understand but you attacked me with the help of that truck driver.
BTW I have 4 grownup kids. All working in my company.

Who is Harrison and I said I had no problem with a championship team getting a trophy, in fact I was explicit about it. You're confused and obviously are addressing me regarding someone else's comment. I never mentioned a truck driver or a Harrison. I hope you run a company better than you respond on forums, you're way out in left field