Its July 4th.....Have you thanked a Liberal today???

[LordBrownTrout]

Another noob running around trying to claim the FF were on "their side." Luckily the FF gave us a constitution to run the country by and regardless if it's Republicans or Democrats that are in power, neither represent nor uphold the constitution unless it just happens to agree with their position that day.

The FF set out to create a free society with some of the smallest Government in the history of mankind... If that is the definition of Liberalism then what the fuck happened?

BTW, congrats RW on another Troll thread. Troll thread as in its only purpose is to factually distort some of the most basic reality of our countries history in order to stir up shit. Tell us all again how we need to trash our constitution and update to a new one by going backwards in time to already failed structures… Yes, the FF would have loved the “Liberals” of 2011…

Lol~

The founding fathers did not advocate small government. They did not advocate big government either. What they advocated was "right sized government" that would be determined by suceeding generations.

They were indeed, wise men

I'm neck deep into dung at this point into the thread. That was Hamilton who was your big government lover.

 

[kaz]

How dare you call our founding fathers idiots for advocating a government that evolves with a nation that evolves

Especially on the 4th of July

Actually, she's calling you an idiot for sitting here hours on end trying to convince people that the founders were big government, tax and spend liberals.

Our founding fathers were for establishing a framework so that succeeding generations could establish the level of government and services that were needed.

I happened to visit the Jefferson Memorial last weekend. As you climb the steps and face Jefferson, here is what is etched in marble behind him

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

You should read Jefferson's quotes on the size of government, you won't like him so much after that.

 

[California Girl]

How dare you call our founding fathers idiots for advocating a government that evolves with a nation that evolves

Especially on the 4th of July

Actually, she's calling you an idiot for sitting here hours on end trying to convince people that the founders were big government, tax and spend liberals.

Our founding fathers were for establishing a framework so that succeeding generations could establish the level of government and services that were needed.

I happened to visit the Jefferson Memorial last weekend. As you climb the steps and face Jefferson, here is what is etched in marble behind him

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

The same guy, Thomas Jefferson, referred to the Constitution as "...not to find out new principles, or new arguments, never before thought of, not merely to say things which had never been said before, but to place before mankind the common sense of the subject."

All you demonstrate, with each of your posts, is that you know jack shit about the Founders or our Constitution. Hence, perhaps, you aren't just trying to insult conservatives.... maybe you really are that stupid as to believe what you say. Now, I feel even more embarrassed for you. As BA said "I pity the fool".

 

[LordBrownTrout]

All of us are neck deep in RW's revisionist sewer pile.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually, she's calling you an idiot for sitting here hours on end trying to convince people that the founders were big government, tax and spend liberals.

Our founding fathers were for establishing a framework so that succeeding generations could establish the level of government and services that were needed.

I happened to visit the Jefferson Memorial last weekend. As you climb the steps and face Jefferson, here is what is etched in marble behind him

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

I do not like the type of dicatorship you're impling

Jefferson is a dictator now?

 

[kaz]

Our founding fathers were for establishing a framework so that succeeding generations could establish the level of government and services that were needed.

I happened to visit the Jefferson Memorial last weekend. As you climb the steps and face Jefferson, here is what is etched in marble behind him

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

I do not like the type of dicatorship you're impling

Jefferson is a dictator now?

You have it backwards. In saying you are actually not like Jefferson, we are saying that "Jefferson" was not a dictator, and he didn't want to be...

 

[Moonglow]

George Washington taxed the whiskkey makers and The Whiskey Rebellion occurred, he killed people to implement taxation. Washington also gave 40k to the French to help with the rebellion in Haiti. We were broke as an infant nation and george borrowed monies to give away. The very things you claim would not happen by the FF were established by the FF.
George Washington was not the first president of the US either.

 

[Moonglow]

Actually, she's calling you an idiot for sitting here hours on end trying to convince people that the founders were big government, tax and spend liberals.

Our founding fathers were for establishing a framework so that succeeding generations could establish the level of government and services that were needed.

I happened to visit the Jefferson Memorial last weekend. As you climb the steps and face Jefferson, here is what is etched in marble behind him

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

You should read Jefferson's quotes on the size of government, you won't like him so much after that.

Yet Jefferson enlarged the govt. of the USA. and when in the Virginia legislature rote soem of the harshest slave refugee retreival laws.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

George Washington taxed the whiskkey makers and The Whiskey Rebellion occurred, he killed people to implement taxation. Washington also gave 40k to the French to help with the rebellion in Haiti. We were broke as an infant nation and george borrowed monies to give away. The very things you claim would not happen by the FF were established by the FF.
George Washington was not the first president of the US either.

Please, do tell, who was the first prez?

 

[kaz]

Our founding fathers were for establishing a framework so that succeeding generations could establish the level of government and services that were needed.

I happened to visit the Jefferson Memorial last weekend. As you climb the steps and face Jefferson, here is what is etched in marble behind him

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

You should read Jefferson's quotes on the size of government, you won't like him so much after that.

Yet Jefferson enlarged the govt. of the USA.

Be more specific, what did he enlarge?

 

[The T]

Actually, she's calling you an idiot for sitting here hours on end trying to convince people that the founders were big government, tax and spend liberals.

Our founding fathers were for establishing a framework so that succeeding generations could establish the level of government and services that were needed.

I happened to visit the Jefferson Memorial last weekend. As you climb the steps and face Jefferson, here is what is etched in marble behind him

I am not an advocate for frequent changes in laws and constitutions. But laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind. As that becomes more developed, more enlightened, as new discoveries are made, new truths discovered and manners and opinions change, with the change of circumstances, institutions must advance also to keep pace with the times. We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.

The same guy, Thomas Jefferson, referred to the Constitution as "...not to find out new principles, or new arguments, never before thought of, not merely to say things which had never been said before, but to place before mankind the common sense of the subject."


All you demonstrate, with each of your posts, is that you know jack shit about the Founders or our Constitution. Hence, perhaps, you aren't just trying to insult conservatives.... maybe you really are that stupid as to believe what you say. Now, I feel even more embarrassed for you. As BA said "I pity the fool".

Sergant Boscoe Albert Baracus at your service!​

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

modern liberals would have been hanged by the neck until dead in the 18th century.

By the British, indeed.

Otherwise, do conservatives ever support their positions with case law or other documented fact or it is always merely subjective, immaterial opinion?

 

[midcan5]

Ah yes, if it weren't for liberals and progressives we'd all still be living in caves howling at the moon and blaming the stars for all that is wrong with the cave's heat and the rain seeping in. Let's give the conservatives a break today, and not remind them they haven't done anything ever, and let them too enjoy the freedoms liberalism has brought them. Conservatives please enjoy our freedoms today for if you didn't have it you'd be whining about it but doing nothing.

 

[kaz]

modern liberals would have been hanged by the neck until dead in the 18th century.

By the British, indeed.

Otherwise, do conservatives ever support their positions with case law or other documented fact or it is always merely subjective, immaterial opinion?

Not a single liberal program can be justified with empirical data. Liberalism is a religion. When you say "facts" you are referring to religious facts in the same way Christians believe Jesus is a fact. Fact means faith, not empirical testing.

My favorite term in your quote though was "case law." Sure, liberal lawyers and an oppressive legal system which is at complete odds with all sense of intellectual honesty or human decency will explain "facts" to us. That's just funny.

 

[The T]

What are we to expect anyway from all of this? Hell, 1/4 of the population doesn't know whom we fought to gain independence. So this thread isn't surprising coming from one whom gains their sustinence from Government.

 

[rightwinger]

Actually, she's calling you an idiot for sitting here hours on end trying to convince people that the founders were big government, tax and spend liberals.

They were the most extreme liberals for their time and place.

As usual, it was the liberals of the day who had to stand up to the status quo and move the nation in a new direction. Our founding fathers would not recognize todays society and all its complexities. They would not try to force their 18th century solutions on 21st century Americans....we have Conservatives to do that for us

Wait... what?

Let’s break down what you just said...

The FF would not force their solutions on this country....

Then you say the Republicans would try and force their "solutions" on this country, implying their solutions are 18th century "solutions," or basically "upholding the constitution?"

However next you leave me wondering.....

So you claim the FF would be wise and good to not to force their "solutions" on our country today yet you more than most support Liberals today forcing their "solutions" onto this country... Then you put this in a thread about how the FF were liberals that are in line with liberalism of 2011????

So wart’s more important to you RW... Upholding the constitution or forcing your ideology on the masses regardless if these "solutions" pass the test of the constitution, meaning you’re ok with trampling on the people freedoms if you agree with the “solution.”

Our founding fathers recognized that ideologies would change, that there was no one solution to each problem, that the needs of the country would change and that government itself would have to change

To manage that government, they established a President, Congress and courts that would be answerable to the people

 

[kaz]

Our founding fathers recognized that ideologies would change, that there was no one solution to each problem, that the needs of the country would change and that government itself would have to change

Yes, and they gave it a process to accomplish that. 2/3, 2/3 and 3/4. They did not give us 5/9.

To manage that government, they established a President, Congress and courts that would be answerable to the people

And then the Democrats came along, and made the people answerable to government.

 

[rightwinger]

Our founding fathers recognized that ideologies would change, that there was no one solution to each problem, that the needs of the country would change and that government itself would have to change

Yes, and they gave it a process to accomplish that. 2/3, 2/3 and 3/4. They did not give us 5/9.

To manage that government, they established a President, Congress and courts that would be answerable to the people

And then the Democrats came along, and made the people answerable to government.

Have you missed the last four elections?

And you still think government is not answerable to the people?

 

[The T]

Our founding fathers recognized that ideologies would change, that there was no one solution to each problem, that the needs of the country would change and that government itself would have to change

Yes, and they gave it a process to accomplish that. 2/3, 2/3 and 3/4. They did not give us 5/9.

To manage that government, they established a President, Congress and courts that would be answerable to the people

And then the Democrats came along, and made the people answerable to government.

Instead of the intent of making Government afraid of the governed.

 

[The T]

Our founding fathers recognized that ideologies would change, that there was no one solution to each problem, that the needs of the country would change and that government itself would have to change

Yes, and they gave it a process to accomplish that. 2/3, 2/3 and 3/4. They did not give us 5/9.

To manage that government, they established a President, Congress and courts that would be answerable to the people

And then the Democrats came along, and made the people answerable to government.

Have you missed the last four elections?

And you still think government is not answerable to the people?

As to getting into office? Correct. What they do afterward? Not so much as they ensconce themselves for their personal gain and become professional politicians to our detriment.