It's a Public School-Sponsored Baptism Party!

[AllieBaba]

Good point

But I would disagree with renting school buses out to groups. It can cause real problems for the school district. I don't know how many (or if any for that matter) do this - but it's a very bad idea imho. I know schools are looking for money wherever they can - but this is potentially a very big problem.

I'm a history buff, reenacting and living history. With many large events school busses are use to transport troops and spectators to and from camping/barracks and "battle" areas. At the WWII Battle of the Bulge and Nordwind they transport not only Bris and GIs but Wermacht and Waffen SS troops. Would you consider this a "very big problem"?

yes, because if they rent to you guys - what is their justification for NOT renting to a bunch of guys who want to go to a NAMBLA rally? And just how good does it look to have X County Schools plastered on the side of a bus that is pulling into a NAMBLA rally?

Gosh, I can't think of why there might be an objection to renting a bus to carry children to the boy/love association sex fest, and renting a bus to carry children to a church.

After all, they're the same thing. Nambla fights for the right to screw little boys without their parents' consent...churches try to bring children to God and teach them morality.

They are EXACLTY the same thing.

Except of course NAMBLA participation isn't protected by our constitution.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Also keep in mind that children were taught to read using Christian primers and reciting bibilcal passages, when we were closer to what this country was supposed to be and what our forefathers determined it should be.

You mean when whites and blacks went to seperate schools? Drank from seperate water fountains? When black students were not allowed to attend state universities? When women weren't allowed to vote?

You and I obviously have very different visions of what the United States of America is "supposed to be" and I for one am darn glad we are moving away from your vision and closer to mine.

 

[AllieBaba]

A glitch in the system and a sign of the times, which we managed to fix. Despite the fact it was an accepted practice world wide, and still accepted in the Muslim world.

Fact is, there weren't many slaves when the country was created. That came later, with the advent of the French populating sugar plantations with slaves sold to them by Africans. When the south was populated with Democrats was when it became widespread.

You guys were all for subjugating and continuing a tradition which was already being fought against by abolitionists (Republicans) who saw it for the atrocity it was. Just as you're all for creating a class of citizens who are denied the right to practice their own religion and using the schools to do it. Or subjugating the poor by keeping them poor, encouraging them to have sex, and imploring them to abort themselves out of existence.

 

[AllieBaba]

The funny thing is, now, just like during the civil rights movement, it's still the Dems who are screeching the loudest about either maintaining the non-constitutional implementation of "separation of church and state" in the schools, by insisting it means the exact opposite of what it actually does mean, so you can deny children the right to practice their religion or even be exposed to it. In other words, keeping them ignorant and indoctrinated in your own weird religion...the religion which decrees that children with disabilities are better off dead and should be aborted or allowed to die, the religion which thinks that no politician who professes to be a Christian should be allowed to speak publicly of his religion or hold office, the religion which insists that our children be taught theories with no basis in fact...while denying them access to their own faith.

Which is, of course, exactly what "separation of church and state" is supposed to prevent.

 

[Ringel05]

Good point

But I would disagree with renting school buses out to groups. It can cause real problems for the school district. I don't know how many (or if any for that matter) do this - but it's a very bad idea imho. I know schools are looking for money wherever they can - but this is potentially a very big problem.

I'm a history buff, reenacting and living history. With many large events school busses are use to transport troops and spectators to and from camping/barracks and "battle" areas. At the WWII Battle of the Bulge and Nordwind they transport not only Bris and GIs but Wermacht and Waffen SS troops. Would you consider this a "very big problem"?

yes, because if they rent to you guys - what is their justification for NOT renting to a bunch of guys who want to go to a NAMBLA rally? And just how good does it look to have X County Schools plastered on the side of a bus that is pulling into a NAMBLA rally?

I may be wrong but I think it is up to the descretion of each specific school district whether busses will be "available" for every "event".

 

[nodoginnafight]

You guys were all for subjugating and continuing a tradition which was already being fought against by abolitionists (Republicans) who saw it for the atrocity it was. Just as you're all for creating a class of citizens who are denied the right to practice their own religion and using the schools to do it. Or subjugating the poor by keeping them poor, encouraging them to have sex, and imploring them to abort themselves out of existence.

To whom are reffering when you say "you guys?"

The United States of America is much closer today of that vision of equality and freedom for all than it ever has been. And that includes the freedom to practice WHATEVER religion you choose - we do not have a state religion - the United States is not a Christian country. It is a country that respects all faiths and the rejection of faith as well.

And a school doesn't "deny" a child access to his faith. Children and their parents have plenty of time to do that outside of school. There is no place for religious activities in public schools - or else they must make arrangements for ALL faiths to be accomodated.

 

[nodoginnafight]

I may be wrong but I think it is up to the descretion of each specific school district whether busses will be "available" for every "event".

And if that is their policy - therein lies the potential problem. Are they going to allow equal access for muslims who want to attend a muslim event? If they allow Christians to use buses to attend Christian events and deny any other faith - they are practicing religious discrimination and that's why it can be a big problem. When you start renting your buses out to the public - you can't discriminate against people who may want to rent them for more controversial activities just because the school superintendent doesn't agree with them.

 

[Shogun]

This is the real meaning of the First Amendment Clause of our United States Constitution, which reads:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;…”

Father of the United States Constitution, James Madison had this clause put into the Constitution, in order that the government would never again force citizens to attend a state-controlled church, such as the Anglican Church in Virginia had been. This is the true meaning of the phrase:

“Separation of the Church from interference by the State”

By design it's to keep the government from dictating a specific religion, it's not meant to keep religion out of the government. If that were the case then explain why the preambles of all 50 state constitutions references God as well as the Declaration of Independence (which contains four references to God). Also explain why almost every historical monument is engraved with scripture from Washington's monument ["Holiness to the Lord" (Exodus 28), "Search the Scriptures" (John 5:39), "The memory of the just is blessed" (Proverbs 10:7) -- and such invocations as, "May Heaven to this Union continue its Benefice."] to Moses and the Ten Commandments on the Supreme Court building.

Then explain "In God We Trust" which is printed on all U.S. currency and mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance. Our rights come from God, not from the government!

our currency only started doing that in the 1930's. i find taking students to any religious activity objectionable.

So? What difference does it make when it was placed on there, the fact is it's on there. This is the only thing you could argue out of the host of examples I've given? Fact is the Pledge of Allegiance didn't have God in it until 1954, but what does that prove? If anything it reinforces my argument.

I love it when constitutional originalists hop between feet.


No, it really doesn't reinforce your argument. In fact, it's a giant crack in your logic.

 

[Shogun]

I may be wrong but I think it is up to the descretion of each specific school district whether busses will be "available" for every "event".

And if that is their policy - therein lies the potential problem. Are they going to allow equal access for muslims who want to attend a muslim event? If they allow Christians to use buses to attend Christian events and deny any other faith - they are practicing religious discrimination and that's why it can be a big problem. When you start renting your buses out to the public - you can't discriminate against people who may want to rent them for more controversial activities just because the school superintendent doesn't agree with them.

Indeed. AGAIN, I can't wait to hear Baba post her gnahing and spitting the day she finds that her child came home from a mosque and brags about praying toward mecca without parental consent....

anyone wanna venture a guess as to how different her reaction will be?

 

[nodoginnafight]

Indeed. AGAIN, I can't wait to hear Baba post her gnahing and spitting the day she finds that her child came home from a mosque and brags about praying toward mecca without parental consent....

anyone wanna venture a guess as to how different her reaction will be?

never underestimate the myopia of the zealot

 

[Ringel05]

I may be wrong but I think it is up to the descretion of each specific school district whether busses will be "available" for every "event".

And if that is their policy - therein lies the potential problem. Are they going to allow equal access for muslims who want to attend a muslim event? If they allow Christians to use buses to attend Christian events and deny any other faith - they are practicing religious discrimination and that's why it can be a big problem. When you start renting your buses out to the public - you can't discriminate against people who may want to rent them for more controversial activities just because the school superintendent doesn't agree with them.

That was just my back door, side step equal access musings. When was the last time you actually looked in a school bus that was on the road after hours or on a weekend? When was the last time you followed one to it's destination to find out where it was going and what was going on? 99.9% of the people probably don't and the 0.1% that do probably need to be investigated for potential pedophilia.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Indeed. AGAIN, I can't wait to hear Baba post her gnahing and spitting the day she finds that her child came home from a mosque and brags about praying toward mecca without parental consent....

anyone wanna venture a guess as to how different her reaction will be?

never underestimate the myopia of the zealot

Don't worry Nodog, we will never underestimate YOU!

 

[nodoginnafight]

I may be wrong but I think it is up to the descretion of each specific school district whether busses will be "available" for every "event".

And if that is their policy - therein lies the potential problem. Are they going to allow equal access for muslims who want to attend a muslim event? If they allow Christians to use buses to attend Christian events and deny any other faith - they are practicing religious discrimination and that's why it can be a big problem. When you start renting your buses out to the public - you can't discriminate against people who may want to rent them for more controversial activities just because the school superintendent doesn't agree with them.

That was just my back door, side step equal access musings. When was the last time you actually looked in a school bus that was on the road after hours or on a weekend? When was the last time you followed one to it's destination to find out where it was going and what was going on? 99.9% of the people probably don't and the 0.1% that do probably need to be investigated for potential pedophilia.

I understand - as my worst-case-scenario Nambla thing was just musing as well. My point being that it's a tricky and potentially problematic line to walk. There are the TV cameras .... there are the loonies .... and here comes the "X County Schools" bus.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

[/B]

our currency only started doing that in the 1930's. i find taking students to any religious activity objectionable.

So? What difference does it make when it was placed on there, the fact is it's on there. This is the only thing you could argue out of the host of examples I've given? Fact is the Pledge of Allegiance didn't have God in it until 1954, but what does that prove? If anything it reinforces my argument.

I love it when constitutional originalists hop between feet.


No, it really doesn't reinforce your argument. In fact, it's a giant crack in your logic.

Then you're more of an idiot than I gave you credit for.

Explain how adding "In God We Trust " on currency in the 1950's lessens my point about separation of church and state.

 

[bodecea]

So? What difference does it make when it was placed on there, the fact is it's on there. This is the only thing you could argue out of the host of examples I've given? Fact is the Pledge of Allegiance didn't have God in it until 1954, but what does that prove? If anything it reinforces my argument.

I love it when constitutional originalists hop between feet.


No, it really doesn't reinforce your argument. In fact, it's a giant crack in your logic.

Then you're more of an idiot than I gave you credit for.

Explain how adding "In God We Trust " on currency in the 1950's lessens my point about separation of church and state.

NOthing, besides the fact that it was not around when the Constitution was written. In fact for about 80% of the existance of our country, it was not around. But, I can see why, for most Americans, the word God and money would be a match made in heaven.

 

[Wicked Jester]

i wonder if jent will have a bunch of posts about the indoctrination of students or is christian indoctrination alright?

religious lessons should be given by parents, schools should have nothing to do with it...if you want your kids indoctrinated send them to private schools where it is all above board.

Actually, my kids attend private school because they teach them the basics. They don't shove political or religious rhetoric down their throats. We pulled our kids out of public school because, here in so-cal, the schools are filled with loony liberal teachers who do shove their loony liberal agendas down the throats of our children. There is one loony liberal teacher running around with false teeth right now after I discovered he had been shoving that Barack Obama "change" BS down the throats of my 7 year old twin daughters. I confronted him, he got pissed and pushed me, I summarily knocked his freakin' teeth out. Self defense laws are a wonderful thing!
I'm conservative republican and Lutheran. My wife is conservative dem and catholic. We expose them to both political parties and religions. When the time is right, our kids WILL decide what is best for them. What they decide is perfectly fine by us.
Shoving politics and religion down a kids throat, when they aren't yet old enough to understand that picking their noses in public just isn't cool, is just plain wrong!

 

[Shogun]

So? What difference does it make when it was placed on there, the fact is it's on there. This is the only thing you could argue out of the host of examples I've given? Fact is the Pledge of Allegiance didn't have God in it until 1954, but what does that prove? If anything it reinforces my argument.

I love it when constitutional originalists hop between feet.


No, it really doesn't reinforce your argument. In fact, it's a giant crack in your logic.

Then you're more of an idiot than I gave you credit for.

Explain how adding "In God We Trust " on currency in the 1950's lessens my point about separation of church and state.

It's simple, really. NONE of the founding fathers added anything of the sort to ANYTHING we see it on today. Not money. Not the pledge. Not the Anthem. nothing. Instead, such was added almost 150 AFTER the founding fathers signed that little document that you'd otherwise be crying about originalism with. your "point" is laughable at best. Thomas Jefferson was not about to put a nod to god on ANYTHING. Hell, the fucking bible didn't go unscathed from his deep rooted humanism. Yet, apparently, the FFs would have supported some bullshit that happened to get passed 150 years later? bitch, please. If a liberal did the same thing today you'd be crying about original intent.

 

[Ringel05]

And if that is their policy - therein lies the potential problem. Are they going to allow equal access for muslims who want to attend a muslim event? If they allow Christians to use buses to attend Christian events and deny any other faith - they are practicing religious discrimination and that's why it can be a big problem. When you start renting your buses out to the public - you can't discriminate against people who may want to rent them for more controversial activities just because the school superintendent doesn't agree with them.

That was just my back door, side step equal access musings. When was the last time you actually looked in a school bus that was on the road after hours or on a weekend? When was the last time you followed one to it's destination to find out where it was going and what was going on? 99.9% of the people probably don't and the 0.1% that do probably need to be investigated for potential pedophilia.

I understand - as my worst-case-scenario Nambla thing was just musing as well. My point being that it's a tricky and potentially problematic line to walk. There are the TV cameras .... there are the loonies .... and here comes the "X County Schools" bus.

I know what you mean, some of the Waffen SS guys we have to deal with, it makes one wonder: A. do they even consider the potential ramifications of some of their antics or B. are they truely "believers" (if you get my drift) and don't care. A couple of years ago some GIs and some guys from the 10th SS wanted to recreate the Malmady Massacre. The kicker is we had two actual survivors from the Malmady Massacre visiting that day! The idiots were dissuaded, strongly!

 

[manifold]

School busses can be "rented" for non-school activities by just about anyone or group. So again, not knowing the specifics it could have been perfectly legal. To the best of my knowledge none of us here were the proverbial fly on the wall so passing judgement without having all the facts is nothing more than surrendering reason and logic to emotive deduction.

Good point

But I would disagree with renting school buses out to groups. It can cause real problems for the school district. I don't know how many (or if any for that matter) do this - but it's a very bad idea imho. I know schools are looking for money wherever they can - but this is potentially a very big problem.

psst: Most school bus companies are private and the "public" schools are not the only customers that contract their services.

 

[manifold]

The fact that a school bus was used proves nothing. However, if it turns out that the rental itself was on the taxpayer's dime, then it's a clear violation of the establishment clause (as it's been interpretted).