It matters not who got our economy to this point

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So many of you on the left dont realize there is a difference between playing the blame game for political points and understanding mistakes?

got it

 

[The T]

I think I do but why don't you enlighten me?

I ask this of many people on this site and rarely get a response: What's your situation?

I think most conservatives see themselves as these independent, self sufficient entities that will somehow overcome whatever adversity comes their way. In my hometown, there are entire communities that were once filled with these types on conservatives that are now half foreclosed.

Our own Tea Party senator (Mike Lee) shorted his bank out of $400,000 because his paltry congressional salary of $174k (which he asked for) was supposedly insufficient to cover the mortgage. Is that the kind of fiscal conservative you'd prefer?

If true I would be voting him out not labeling an entire group because of HIS actions.

I can only hope but he has 4 more years in office and even then, heaven forbit Utahans should vote for anyone but the fucking republican.

Partisan over Country much?

 

[Care4all]

So many of you on the left dont realize there is a difference between playing the blame game for political points and understanding mistakes?

got it

and those on the right wing have the same problem, no???

you think it is only the left, while obama is blamed for everything by the right wing?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

So many of you on the left dont realize there is a difference between playing the blame game for political points and understanding mistakes?

got it

and those on the right wing have the same problem, no???

you think it is only the left, while obama is blamed for everything by the right wing?

No, I agree that many on the right love to play the game too.

 

[Si modo]

So many of you on the left dont realize there is a difference between playing the blame game for political points and understanding mistakes?

got it

and those on the right wing have the same problem, no???

you think it is only the left, while obama is blamed for everything by the right wing?

Of course he is blamed - he is the POTUS, with 3.5 years in office, no less.

And, he says almost everyday he cannot do his job.

 

[Care4all]

So many of you on the left dont realize there is a difference between playing the blame game for political points and understanding mistakes?

got it

and those on the right wing have the same problem, no???

you think it is only the left, while obama is blamed for everything by the right wing?

Of course he is blamed - he is the POTUS, with 3.5 years in office, no less.

And, he says almost everyday he cannot do his job.

yep 3.5 years, but honestly, you know Obama was blamed by the right for everything, from the moment he took office.

I can show you thread upon thread upon thread upon thread on this forum where Obama was blamed for all of our country's ill's by the right wing from day one of his election let alone day one of when he got in to office...

 

[thereisnospoon]

Tax cuts and financial deregulation are the major reasons we're in the mess we're in. You can thank the obstructionist House for continued Bush policies there.

Funny because before Pelosi took over the economy was fine, but talk about Obstuctionists. Yeah raise the taxes man, what should they be at? Lets raise the min wage to $100 too, I'm sure you're for that as well, are you not?

I don't really know you but the odds are high that I pay more taxes than you (I pay about twice the effective rate that Mitt Romney pays). The elites in this country are getting away with murder compared to more prosperous decades. If I had to share the pain, I'd do it but they'd better start by taxing the people who benefit more from this country than I do.

Oh please stop the whining

 

[thereisnospoon]

USC is right; it is all a game; "game" may be too strong a word--it is all theater because the stakes are for real.

If Romney does win; the debt ceiling will be raised without so much as a peep from the House. If Obama wins, expect WW III. If the parties and roles were reversed the same damn thing would happen. Harry Reid is basically vetoing bills from the House at this point. Why? Because he can. Mitch McConnell would be doing the same thing.


Until we fix the Constitution to have rules in it for Congress, nothing is going to change because politics is often the determining factor in what Congress wants to do.

Voting 3rd party (regardless of party) in november would send the message. Both parties are out to lunch fiscally.

Unfortunately the American electorate which is mostly uninformed will not vote 3rd party.
I will explain. Too many people vote as thouhg they are trying to pick the winner of a horse race.
I cannot say how many times I have heard people say "I won't vote third party because I don't want to waste my vote"....Or, " I voted for the winner".
That is nonsense. People who think this way should not be permitted to decide the leader of the Free World.
I think that in order to become eligible to vote each of us should be required a to pass a simple civics test. 5 questions, that's all. Stuff everyone should know. Stuff people who take their citizenship test could rattle off without blinking.

I disagree with any test. That is a bridge too far for me to cross. Although I agree with your sentiment.

What are your reasons for disagreement?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Tax cuts and financial deregulation are the major reasons we're in the mess we're in. You can thank the obstructionist House for continued Bush policies there.

Funny because before Pelosi took over the economy was fine, but talk about Obstuctionists. Yeah raise the taxes man, what should they be at? Lets raise the min wage to $100 too, I'm sure you're for that as well, are you not?

Dear idiot,

it was NOT fine you con idiots had already fucked things up and continued to after Pelosi came into the majority

You are a confirmed non-thinker.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Well the odds are certain that you are.

I'm not the one in denial.

I know it's hard to believe that someone like me, a highly paid professional, would give you the time of day but that's just the way I am. I like to think that even the most blind can eventually be brought to the light. I've been wrong about that in the past yet I still remain hopefu.

When a lib senses a position of weakness in their argument, they always boast of their accomplishments. Usually, total bullshit.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I'm not the one in denial.

I know it's hard to believe that someone like me, a highly paid professional, would give you the time of day but that's just the way I am. I like to think that even the most blind can eventually be brought to the light. I've been wrong about that in the past yet I still remain hopefu.

You've been here for what? A few days? And you want to pretend you know me or anyone else on here for that matter? You've probably read maybe a dozen of my posts and you think you've got it all figured out?

Pompous is an understatement.

Just a minute MISTER...HE'S a highly paid professional....

 

[thereisnospoon]

Compromise has become a word the right cannot even say unless deriding someone for compromising.

What has the left ever compromised on?

Stimulus, healthcare bill, DADT, Bush tax cuts

bullcrap....The GOP was shut out of all bill writing meetings for Obamacare. That after the White House and the Congressional leadership tried to goad the GOP into going along. A political move that failed. The idea was if the ACA turned into the nightmare that it is, the White House and Congress could blame the GOP. The GOP told the Dems, "you're on your own".
The stimulus was rammed down the GOP's throats.
The White House wanted the tax cut gone. The GOP reminded Obama that they would plaster him with the largest tax increase in the history of the nation.
You are well known for making shit up as you go.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I'm not the one in denial.

I know it's hard to believe that someone like me, a highly paid professional, would give you the time of day but that's just the way I am. I like to think that even the most blind can eventually be brought to the light. I've been wrong about that in the past yet I still remain hopefu.

When a lib senses a position of weakness in their argument, they always boast of their accomplishments. Usually, total bullshit.

True or not he gets one vote just like me. Not to mention one chance to leave a first impression.

 

[thereisnospoon]

In other words, you aren't a fiscal conservative. You're a liberal. You can't be both.

I pay my bills, I've never declared bankruptcy, I outright own my house and cars, I've worked very hard not to overextend myself and I waited until I was established for the big ticket items (wife, kids, house, etc.) Yet, I can see the need for a social contract/safety net because there are a whole lot of people who aren't in that situation.

All of which has nothing to do with your views on government spending. When a liberal says he's a "fiscal conservative," all it means is that he's eager to raise my taxes to pay for his social spending.

Upper middle class suburban white liberals who have feelings of guilt over their success were a very important voting bloc for Obama in 2008. Job losses, falling home values and Obama's failed promises of "hope and change" will make these people think twice about punching Obama's ticket again.

 

[The T]

I know it's hard to believe that someone like me, a highly paid professional, would give you the time of day but that's just the way I am. I like to think that even the most blind can eventually be brought to the light. I've been wrong about that in the past yet I still remain hopefu.

You've been here for what? A few days? And you want to pretend you know me or anyone else on here for that matter? You've probably read maybe a dozen of my posts and you think you've got it all figured out?

Pompous is an understatement.

Just a minute MISTER...HE'S a highly paid professional....

Like that idiot independent 'Blogger' that was here last week and got his ass handed to him and hasn't returned since?

 

[Nosmo King]

But it does matter in that many who contributed to the problem on both sides are still trying to do the same things that got us into this mess.
And many are running for election or reelection.

No one yet has produced any viable options/plans for fixing the mess.

It will only continue and grow worse by following the current path.

I have seen some ideas from both sides that might have helped. Sadly election season is not known for reason and comprimise.

When then is the time for reason and compromise? If it's right now, please tell the House Republicans!

And we should know exactly which policies were responsible for the financial sector collapse. Prior to this catastrophe, few if any banks actually failed. But since de-regulation and the repeal of Glass-Steagall, hundreds of banks have failed? Are there lessons to be learned, or should we blindly go forth de-regulating some more?

And if indeed de-regulation is the solution, can we learn anything from the effects it has had on other sectors of the economy? We de-regulated savings and loans back in the late 1980s and then they promptly began to fail. We de-regulated the airlines. Maybe we should ask some former employees of Pan Am and Eastern how that worked out.

If we go all ostrich and ignore the sources of our problems, how can we ever find workable solutions?

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

But it does matter in that many who contributed to the problem on both sides are still trying to do the same things that got us into this mess.
And many are running for election or reelection.

No one yet has produced any viable options/plans for fixing the mess.

It will only continue and grow worse by following the current path.

I have seen some ideas from both sides that might have helped. Sadly election season is not known for reason and comprimise.

When then is the time for reason and compromise? If it's right now, please tell the House Republicans!

And we should know exactly which policies were responsible for the financial sector collapse. Prior to this catastrophe, few if any banks actually failed. But since de-regulation and the repeal of Glass-Steagall, hundreds of banks have failed? Are there lessons to be learned, or should we blindly go forth de-regulating some more?

And if indeed de-regulation is the solution, can we learn anything from the effects it has had on other sectors of the economy? We de-regulated savings and loans back in the late 1980s and then they promptly began to fail. We de-regulated the airlines. Maybe we should ask some former employees of Pan Am and Eastern how that worked out.

If we go all ostrich and ignore the sources of our problems, how can we ever find workable solutions?

Ask Clinton, he knew how to get shit done. Thus far Obama has told the GOP to take a seat in the back of the bus and be quite because "he won"

Does that sound like the voice of someone seeking comprimise?

Ask Reid why he wont bring 30 some house bills to the floor and find comprimise in them then return them to the house......LIKE HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO.

There is plenty of blame to go around and I assure you its doesnt all lie at the doorstep to the house.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This seems so non-sequitur that I hardly know how to respond.

It sounds like you can't even see the possibility that you might need assistance at some point.

Whether I may need assistance at some point isn't the issue. If I do, I don't necessarily have to get it from government. Before welfare existed, we had private charity in this country. Welfare is theft.

BTW, I doubt you understand the meaning of the term "non sequitur."

I think I do but why don't you enlighten me?

I ask this of many people on this site and rarely get a response: What's your situation?

I think most conservatives see themselves as these independent, self sufficient entities that will somehow overcome whatever adversity comes their way. In my hometown, there are entire communities that were once filled with these types on conservatives that are now half foreclosed.

Our own Tea Party senator (Mike Lee) shorted his bank out of $400,000 because his paltry congressional salary of $174k (which he asked for) was supposedly insufficient to cover the mortgage. Is that the kind of fiscal conservative you'd prefer?

Most foreclosed middle and upper middle class people got into trouble when they bought too much house, went into revolving debt to pay for things they should not have bought but did so because they had to maintain an image or they "just wanted it"...
I have seen it far too often. Ridiculous spending habits. Buying cars when the one they had ran perfectly. Running up credit cards buying toys. Taking out loans for boats or RV's...
Example. I have a friend who is a real estate appraiser. Most of the assignments are foreclosures. It was common to see a boat and an Rv parked in the yard of a home that was about to be foreclosed. I have been in large homes for work purposes where some of the rooms had no furniture in them. Homes with $50k in upgrades.
These people spent unwisely and got burned.
My empathy goes out to people who through... no fault of their own ( illness, loss of income or tragedy)...IMO those are ther ONLY people who deserve loan modifications and other help to keep their homes.
If someone was greedy or overspent, screw 'em. They should have thought about that before they whipped out the plastic.
I have spent over half my life living beneath my means just to have something put away for a rainy day. I never spend without looking at the potential consequences. If that means I cannot buy something, so be it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

fiscal conservative (at least with my own finances)

In other words, you aren't a fiscal conservative. You're a liberal. You can't be both.

Sure you can. Don't be stupid.

 

[The T]

I have seen some ideas from both sides that might have helped. Sadly election season is not known for reason and comprimise.

When then is the time for reason and compromise? If it's right now, please tell the House Republicans!

And we should know exactly which policies were responsible for the financial sector collapse. Prior to this catastrophe, few if any banks actually failed. But since de-regulation and the repeal of Glass-Steagall, hundreds of banks have failed? Are there lessons to be learned, or should we blindly go forth de-regulating some more?

And if indeed de-regulation is the solution, can we learn anything from the effects it has had on other sectors of the economy? We de-regulated savings and loans back in the late 1980s and then they promptly began to fail. We de-regulated the airlines. Maybe we should ask some former employees of Pan Am and Eastern how that worked out.

If we go all ostrich and ignore the sources of our problems, how can we ever find workable solutions?

Ask Clinton, he knew how to get shit done. Thus far Obama has told the GOP to take a seat in the back of the bus and be quite because "he won"

Does that sound like the voice of someone seeking comprimise?

Ask Reid why he wont bring 30 some house bills to the floor and find comprimise in them then return them to the house......LIKE HE IS SUPPOSED TO DO.

There is plenty of blame to go around and I assure you its doesnt all lie at the doorstep to the house.

Obama Tells Republicans to 'Sit in Back'

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i0bDbYUUhY"]Obama to McCain: "The Election Is Over" - YouTube[/ame]