It matters not who got our economy to this point

[Toddsterpatriot]

some things, like facts, deserve repeating around here

In 2005, while the Democrats were still in the minority, Frank contributed to a bipartisan effort to put his objectives -- tighter regulation of Fannie and Freddie

So once he was in the majority, and head of his committee, he must have been successful in regulating Fannie and Freddie much more tightly.

You have a link to that legislation?

moron, but that time things were in motion...and we all know how supply side economics and free market reforms worked out for the people versus the banks and financial system

Yeah, things are always in motion.
So he fought for reform and then, when he was in the majority, head of the committee, he did nothing? LOL!
Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

In 2005, while the Democrats were still in the minority, Frank contributed to a bipartisan effort to put his objectives -- tighter regulation of Fannie and Freddie

So once he was in the majority, and head of his committee, he must have been successful in regulating Fannie and Freddie much more tightly.

You have a link to that legislation?

moron, but that time things were in motion...and we all know how supply side economics and free market reforms worked out for the people versus the banks and financial system

Yeah, things are always in motion.
So he fought for reform and then, when he was in the majority, head of the committee, he did nothing? LOL!
Thanks for the laugh.

hit and run dooshbag posts? fuck off. Frank's record speaks for itself. The proof of how he was against right wing monetary craziness is why the right demonized him so badly.

Known by his enemies

like his colleague said, Frank is more of an institutionalist than partisan. We need more people like Frank in politics, not less.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

moron, but that time things were in motion...and we all know how supply side economics and free market reforms worked out for the people versus the banks and financial system

Yeah, things are always in motion.
So he fought for reform and then, when he was in the majority, head of the committee, he did nothing? LOL!
Thanks for the laugh.

hit and run dooshbag posts? fuck off. Frank's record speaks for itself. The proof of how he was against right wing monetary craziness is why the right demonized him so badly.

Known by his enemies

like his colleague said, Frank is more of an institutionalist than partisan. We need more people like Frank in politics, not less.

Hit and run?
I guess it beats the lies you've been posting.
Let me know if you ever find any real proof Frank tried to rein in Fannie and Freddie, instead of pushing them to expand their mortgage holdings.
Holdings that have cost the taxpayer several hundred billion dollars, so far.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Rep. Frank: I do think I do not want the same kind of focus on safety and soundness that we have in OCC [Office of the Comptroller of the Currency] and OTS [Office of Thrift Supervision]. I want to roll the dice a little bit more in this situation towards subsidized housing. . . .

 

[rdean]

It matters not who got our economy to this point

One of the dumbest statements I ever read on this board. If someone "ruins" something, you automatically turn around and expect them to "fix it"? Or you are afraid they will "ruin" more?

 

[Peach]

moron, but that time things were in motion...and we all know how supply side economics and free market reforms worked out for the people versus the banks and financial system

Yeah, things are always in motion.
So he fought for reform and then, when he was in the majority, head of the committee, he did nothing? LOL!
Thanks for the laugh.

hit and run dooshbag posts? fuck off. Frank's record speaks for itself. The proof of how he was against right wing monetary craziness is why the right demonized him so badly.

Known by his enemies

like his colleague said, Frank is more of an institutionalist than partisan. We need more people like Frank in politics, not less.

True, both brilliant, and compassionate.

 

[thereisnospoon]

yes exactly, the entire Federal government was organized to subvert the free market by getting people into homes the free market said they could not afford.

Who could deny it with a straight face??

Not sure I understand what that means.

Simple. The US Government has been undermining VALUE, for generations. When immigration pushed real estate to its top end, the whole Fannie and Freddie and financial hedge was doomed to fail, sooner or later.

When energy was deregulated, and states got their own contracts, a lot of money was wasted, on middlemen, and inflation was pushed, around the world, on the strength of the US economy. But the US economy cannot manufacture, without government contracts, to which all processes have become addicted.

There is no free market. That has been a myth, for a long time. We do not enjoy freedom, and we pay for drug and other wars, designed to consume petroleum products and raise the CO2 concentration.

The government-affected markets all have a huge carbon footprint, warming is accelerating, and value is always questionable, so some collapse can occur, at any moment.

As a rule, I do not discuss conspiracy theories nor do I acknowledge conspiracy theorists.
Sorry. It's got to be this way.
We're through, yes? Good.
Theorize away.

 

[Billo_Really]

Lots of polls and blame to go around. Enough to keep partisans on both sides pointing fingers for years.
What SHOULD matter at this point is why we are doing so poorly in our recovery. Blaming Bush is pointless to our recovery. The historians can decide who and what it will be viewed like later. In the meantime lets focus on the here and now and decide which path we need to take to expidite our recovery.

All the posts about BOOOOOOOOOSH are just pointless. For example I believe Frank, dems and many spinless pubs are to blame but starting such threads serves no purpose as its water under the bridge now and blame cant fix shit. Congress and Obama can however.

You cannot solve a problem (any problem) without breaking it down to its root causes. If you don't know how the problem got created, then you can't really know what solutions will work.

I always hated algebra word problems, but the one thing it did teach you, was how to determine the relevant facts associated with the problem; what information was missing to the problem; and coming up with a formula to fix the problem.

So you really do need to know the history of the problem in order to solve it. And Bush did provide his own contributions to our economic collapse. I have no sympathy for those bothered by people still blaming Bush, they never blamed him for anything anyway, so they can go fuck themselves!

The reality is, both sides have blood on their hands, which actually started with Reagan and his tax cuts for the rich. It was followed by that piece of shit Phil Gramm (Gramm-Bliley Bill) who was instrumental in repealing Glass-Steigall, then slick Willie signed his bill into law, then Bush goes and starts two unecessary wars, while at the same time cutting taxes (further reducing government revenue), just when it was ramping up the spending.

But the single biggest reason for the economic downturn, was the de-regulation of the financial industry. Because that allowed the return of something that had been illegal for over half-a-century ...............derrivitives! Which is nothing more than casino capitolism. Just before the bottom dropped out of the economy, the derrivitive bubble had grown to over 180 times the collective GNP of all the nations in the world. And when that bubble burst and financial companies had to come up with the cash to cover those defaults, it affected the entire planet.

To fix this economy, we have to bring back Glass-Steigall and cut that obscene defense budget in half!

 

[thereisnospoon]

Lots of polls and blame to go around. Enough to keep partisans on both sides pointing fingers for years.
What SHOULD matter at this point is why we are doing so poorly in our recovery. Blaming Bush is pointless to our recovery. The historians can decide who and what it will be viewed like later. In the meantime lets focus on the here and now and decide which path we need to take to expidite our recovery.

All the posts about BOOOOOOOOOSH are just pointless. For example I believe Frank, dems and many spinless pubs are to blame but starting such threads serves no purpose as its water under the bridge now and blame cant fix shit. Congress and Obama can however.

You cannot solve a problem (any problem) without breaking it down to its root causes. If you don't know how the problem got created, then you can't really know what solutions will work.

I always hated algebra word problems, but the one thing it did teach you, was how to determine the relevant facts associated with the problem; what information was missing to the problem; and coming up with a formula to fix the problem.

So you really do need to know the history of the problem in order to solve it. And Bush did provide his own contributions to our economic collapse. I have no sympathy for those bothered by people still blaming Bush, they never blamed him for anything anyway, so they can go fuck themselves!

The reality is, both sides have blood on their hands, which actually started with Reagan and his tax cuts for the rich. It was followed by that piece of shit Phil Gramm (Gramm-Bliley Bill) who was instrumental in repealing Glass-Steigall, then slick Willie signed his bill into law, then Bush goes and starts two unecessary wars, while at the same time cutting taxes (further reducing government revenue), just when it was ramping up the spending.

But the single biggest reason for the economic downturn, was the de-regulation of the financial industry. Because that allowed the return of something that had been illegal for over half-a-century ...............derrivitives! Which is nothing more than casino capitolism. Just before the bottom dropped out of the economy, the derrivitive bubble had grown to over 180 times the collective GNP of all the nations in the world. And when that bubble burst and financial companies had to come up with the cash to cover those defaults, it affected the entire planet.

To fix this economy, we have to bring back Glass-Steigall and cut that obscene defense budget in half!

I lamented the day banks were permitted to do business across state lines.
This permitted the larger banks to begin swallowing up small banks. Fast forward to today, we have these huge companies that spend 90% of their revenue doing things OTHER than banking.
Back in the 80's, many large firms that had but one function( GM made cars, American Airlines flew passenger jets and cargo jets, Exxon marketed petroleum products, Nabisco made snacks)....Each of the above mention firms got into industries that ended up costing them large sums of net worth. Banks got into the sub prime lending business which needed an outlet for 'cover'. At the end of the day there is the one focal point. That is the federal government. Government made the rules. It was the enabler or facilitator.
So if blaming the banking industry is anyone's thing, they can have at it. However, it is disingenuous to ignore or excuse the role of government and by extension particular politicians that made it all possible.

 

[Billo_Really]

I lamented the day banks were permitted to do business across state lines.
This permitted the larger banks to begin swallowing up small banks. Fast forward to today, we have these huge companies that spend 90% of their revenue doing things OTHER than banking.
Back in the 80's, many large firms that had but one function( GM made cars, American Airlines flew passenger jets and cargo jets, Exxon marketed petroleum products, Nabisco made snacks)....Each of the above mention firms got into industries that ended up costing them large sums of net worth. Banks got into the sub prime lending business which needed an outlet for 'cover'. At the end of the day there is the one focal point. That is the federal government. Government made the rules. It was the enabler or facilitator.
So if blaming the banking industry is anyone's thing, they can have at it. However, it is disingenuous to ignore or excuse the role of government and by extension particular politicians that made it all possible.

Politicians that take their marching orders from the very businesses we are blaming.

There are 39,000 lobbiests in Washington and their not there because they have no influence.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Lots of polls and blame to go around. Enough to keep partisans on both sides pointing fingers for years.
What SHOULD matter at this point is why we are doing so poorly in our recovery. Blaming Bush is pointless to our recovery. The historians can decide who and what it will be viewed like later. In the meantime lets focus on the here and now and decide which path we need to take to expidite our recovery.

All the posts about BOOOOOOOOOSH are just pointless. For example I believe Frank, dems and many spinless pubs are to blame but starting such threads serves no purpose as its water under the bridge now and blame cant fix shit. Congress and Obama can however.

You cannot solve a problem (any problem) without breaking it down to its root causes. If you don't know how the problem got created, then you can't really know what solutions will work.

I always hated algebra word problems, but the one thing it did teach you, was how to determine the relevant facts associated with the problem; what information was missing to the problem; and coming up with a formula to fix the problem.

So you really do need to know the history of the problem in order to solve it. And Bush did provide his own contributions to our economic collapse. I have no sympathy for those bothered by people still blaming Bush, they never blamed him for anything anyway, so they can go fuck themselves!

The reality is, both sides have blood on their hands, which actually started with Reagan and his tax cuts for the rich. It was followed by that piece of shit Phil Gramm (Gramm-Bliley Bill) who was instrumental in repealing Glass-Steigall, then slick Willie signed his bill into law, then Bush goes and starts two unecessary wars, while at the same time cutting taxes (further reducing government revenue), just when it was ramping up the spending.

But the single biggest reason for the economic downturn, was the de-regulation of the financial industry. Because that allowed the return of something that had been illegal for over half-a-century ...............derrivitives! Which is nothing more than casino capitolism. Just before the bottom dropped out of the economy, the derrivitive bubble had grown to over 180 times the collective GNP of all the nations in the world. And when that bubble burst and financial companies had to come up with the cash to cover those defaults, it affected the entire planet.

To fix this economy, we have to bring back Glass-Steigall and cut that obscene defense budget in half!

But the single biggest reason for the economic downturn, was the de-regulation of the financial industry. Because that allowed the return of something that had been illegal for over half-a-century ...............derrivitives!

Derivatives weren't illegal, they've been trading on Chicago exchanges since about 1848.

 

[thereisnospoon]

I lamented the day banks were permitted to do business across state lines.
This permitted the larger banks to begin swallowing up small banks. Fast forward to today, we have these huge companies that spend 90% of their revenue doing things OTHER than banking.
Back in the 80's, many large firms that had but one function( GM made cars, American Airlines flew passenger jets and cargo jets, Exxon marketed petroleum products, Nabisco made snacks)....Each of the above mention firms got into industries that ended up costing them large sums of net worth. Banks got into the sub prime lending business which needed an outlet for 'cover'. At the end of the day there is the one focal point. That is the federal government. Government made the rules. It was the enabler or facilitator.
So if blaming the banking industry is anyone's thing, they can have at it. However, it is disingenuous to ignore or excuse the role of government and by extension particular politicians that made it all possible.

Politicians that take their marching orders from the very businesses we are blaming.

There are 39,000 lobbiests in Washington and their not there because they have no influence.

Lobbying...One of my least favorite activities on Capitol Hill but unfortunately a necessary evil.
Now, I do think and if I were running the show up there under the Dome, I would do one thing....That would be to ban all former members of Congress from lobbying or becoming employed for any company that lobbies in Washington.
On a radio talk show earlier this week a person who was well versed in the US Constitution was asked about the term limit for President. Which is I believe the 22nd Amendment...Yes that is correct....That conversation went on to term limits for House members and Senators. To which the guest said if that were the case then the most powerful people on Capitol Hill would then be the Staffers. He said these people work for successive Sens and House Members.
I disagree with this. Trust me, If I am a newly elected Senator or House Member, my first order of business to interview and scrutinize every staff member assigned to me. I would get rid of 50% of them just because I think we could do with about a 50% reduction in federal employment....I would want my own people helping me out and doing things the way I want them done..So there goes the point of no term limits due to lifetime career government workers.
In any event the status qup cannot continue. It is time to get government back to the business of working for US instead of working for their own reelection.

 

[bobgnote]

The implosion is already scheduled. Defense is going to get cut.

No value will issue, until all kinds of things happen, starting with legalization of drugs, to back up the inflated prison industry, and to clear the way, for legal hemp, profitable or not. Oil and marijuana both need to take a hit, for the sake of VALUE.

So many DDDs think an economy can run, on inflated prices, for dirty deeds, instead of VALUE. But like global warming, running an economy, without VALUE will take its toll, on transactions, eventually.

 

[thereisnospoon]

The implosion is already scheduled. Defense is going to get cut.

No value will issue, until all kinds of things happen, starting with legalization of drugs, to back up the inflated prison industry, and to clear the way, for legal hemp, profitable or not. Oil and marijuana both need to take a hit, for the sake of VALUE.

So many DDDs think an economy can run, on inflated prices, for dirty deeds, instead of VALUE. But like global warming, running an economy, without VALUE will take its toll, on transactions, eventually.

Thorazine anyone?

 

[Billo_Really]

Derivatives weren't illegal, they've been trading on Chicago exchanges since about 1848.

Wrong! They were illegal for almost 50 years.

Derivatives were illegal in the United States between 1936 and 1983.
In 1933, an attempt was made to corner the wheat futures market using options, and the resulting outcry led to a 1936 federal law banning such options on farm commodity markets. This ban was repealed by the Futures Trading Act of 1982, signed by President Reagan in January 1983.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Derivatives weren't illegal, they've been trading on Chicago exchanges since about 1848.

Wrong! They were illegal for almost 50 years.

Derivatives were illegal in the United States between 1936 and 1983.
In 1933, an attempt was made to corner the wheat futures market using options, and the resulting outcry led to a 1936 federal law banning such options on farm commodity markets. This ban was repealed by the Futures Trading Act of 1982, signed by President Reagan in January 1983.

Wrong. Futures contracts traded during that period. Stock options started trading in 1973, during the period you imagine derivatives were illegal. Try again?

Start with the definition of derivative. Let me know if you're still confused.

 

[bobgnote]

The implosion is already scheduled. Defense is going to get cut.

No value will issue, until all kinds of things happen, starting with legalization of drugs, to back up the inflated prison industry, and to clear the way, for legal hemp, profitable or not. Oil and marijuana both need to take a hit, for the sake of VALUE.

So many DDDs think an economy can run, on inflated prices, for dirty deeds, instead of VALUE. But like global warming, running an economy, without VALUE will take its toll, on transactions, eventually.

Thorazine anyone?

Eat SHIT, thereisnobrain. Since you have no brain, eating shit is good for you.

Take two turds, in the morning, two in the evening. Since you have no brain, you don't need value, which shit has, when it's in the ground. If you were only crazy, meds might be on your menu. But you have NO BRAIN. So eat shit; it'll have to do.

 

[bobgnote]

Re the Commodities Exchange Act of 1922 and 1936 provisions, none of this will load, from any several sites on Sunday, for some irritating reason, so I will venture, former law as restrictive provisions likely referred to OTC or over the counter exchanges.

A number of bloggers think the derivative bubble has gotten too big, into the trillions, since 1983. An adjustment might mean another round, of collapse or bailouts.