Israel's 'victories' in Gaza come at a steep price !

[DavidS]

Frist you say there is no Palestine, then you say it was created in 1917.

Then you say before 1917 that arabs lived there. Then you say no one lived there.

You are very confused.

You're the one who's confused. Palestine never existed as its own independent country with its own ethnicity. I have said this from the get go. None of the Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza today had ancestors who lived in Palestine hundreds of years ago. Palestinians are Arabs. There is no such thing as an ethnic Palestinian. These poor people my ass, their leaders hold food, medicine and aid from them for days and when they're near death they shove cameras in their faces and yell at the world what horrible things Israel is doing, when in reality, Hamas is responsible for this.

People like you buy into it hook line and sinker. If you were back in Germany during World War 2, you'd be marching right behind hitler yelling to kill the Jews.

 

[Truthmatters]

You're the one who's confused. Palestine never existed as its own independent country with its own ethnicity. I have said this from the get go. None of the Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza today had ancestors who lived in Palestine hundreds of years ago. Palestinians are Arabs. There is no such thing as an ethnic Palestinian. These poor people my ass, their leaders hold food, medicine and aid from them for days and when they're near death they shove cameras in their faces and yell at the world what horrible things Israel is doing, when in reality, Hamas is responsible for this.

People like you buy into it hook line and sinker. If you were back in Germany during World War 2, you'd be marching right behind hitler yelling to kill the Jews.

You are so emotionally invested in this you cant disern the truth.

I dont hate Israel or the Palis. I dont hate you or the jews. I dont agree with your asessment of the situation. Because I dont you call me a nazi?

This will only lose you more support in the end.

The world is not going to fall for that type of tactics.

 

[DavidS]

You are so emotionally invested in this you cant disern the truth.

I dont hate Israel or the Palis. I dont hate you or the jews. I dont agree with your asessment of the situation. Because I dont you call me a nazi?

This will only lose you more support in the end.

The world is not going to fall for that type of tactics.

The difficulty debating with you, Truth, is that your intelligence and ability to understand what people are saying is quite low.

I made a comparison to the level of which you're willing to buy into false propoganda. Hitler used false propogdanda during World War 2 to make everyone believe that the Jews were responsible for the world's problems, when in fact, they weren't. The Germans were responsible for their problems and used the Jews as a scapegoat.

You're buying the same kind of propoganda. It's our fault, the Arabs say, that these Arabs living in Gaza and the West Bank are so poor. You buy into that as well. In 50 years from now, when Islam is defeated, the world will owe Israel a great debt of grattitude until the next group of people using the Jews as a scapegoat for their problems comes around and another batch of idiots, like yourself, will buy into what they have to say.

Same story, different century.

 

[toomuchtime_]

to get rights of democracy,build a country,and alot of other rights, get food ,gaz and fuel for one.
its the only way to defend yourself against an ocuppation as "Israel". Do you know about Cuba,Lybia,Algeria and other struggles ?!

Well, if all you want is democracy, food, gas, etc. Israel has been trying to get the Palestinians to accept a state in the West Bank and Gaza for nearly a generation in exchange for peace, and the Arabs have refused. True, you would not get Jerusalem or the right of return or about 6% of the West Bank, but Israel has proposed giving a new Palestinian state some pre 1967 Israeli land in compensation, but you would be free to define for yourselves whatever rights you wanted and to build an economy that will provide you with food, gas and more, hopefully. So it's clear that peace with Israel will get you all the things you say you want and violence will prevent you from getting any of it.

As for the struggles you list, none of them parallel the situation between Israel and the Palestinians. Cuba was a revolution or civil war within a country, but since Israeli Arabs are not in rebellion, there is no civil war or revolution in Israel, and since the Israelis are not a foreign colonial power establishing outposts and colonies but nationals of an Israeli state that exists nowhere else, there is no parallel with Libya or Algeria.

So if all you honestly want is a Palestinian state in which you are able to define your own political rights and determine your own economic destiny, then all you have to do to get that is make peace with Israel, but if what you really want is to remove the Jewish state of Israel and you mean to do by these kinds of violent gestures, then you, not Israel, have condemned the Palestinian people to generations of pointless misery.

 

[José]

Truthmatters,

Read the following message for another example of José mercilessly imploding a post.

 

[José]

Originally posted by DavidS
There is no such thing as an ethnic Palestinian.

There is no such thing as an ethnic American either.

Americans come in a variety of colors: whites, blacks, yellow and yes, EVEN JEWS.

Now I'll be waiting for you to say that since there is no such thing as an ethnic american...

THE AMERICAN NATIONAL IDENTITY IS NOT REAL EITHER!!!

 

[FistyTheBadger]

You are so emotionally invested in this you cant disern the truth.

I dont hate Israel or the Palis. I dont hate you or the jews. I dont agree with your asessment of the situation. Because I dont you call me a nazi?

This will only lose you more support in the end.

The world is not going to fall for that type of tactics.

The world is not going to "fall for" any tactic that comes from a Jew. The world hates the Jeww, not the behavior.

 

[FistyTheBadger]

There is no such thing as an ethnic American either.

Americans come in a variety of colors: whites, blacks, yellow and yes, EVEN JEWS.

Now I'll be waiting for you to say that since there is no such thing as an ethnic american...

THE AMERICAN NATIONAL IDENTITY IS NOT REAL EITHER!!!

That is highly unfortunate and highly irrelevant.

 

[DiveCon]

There is no such thing as an ethnic American either.

Americans come in a variety of colors: whites, blacks, yellow and yes, EVEN JEWS.

Now I'll be waiting for you to say that since there is no such thing as an ethnic american...

THE AMERICAN NATIONAL IDENTITY IS NOT REAL EITHER!!!

question, who said there was?

 

[José]

Originally posted by DiveCon
question, who said there was?

Diver buddy,

This is what happens when you don't have time to read the entire thread, you are too lazy to do it or simply are not paying much attention to it : )

DavidS said: there is no ethnic palestinians, just Arabs who moved to Palestine, therefore the palestinian national identity is not real.

Then I replied: there is no ethnic american either, just whites, blacks, latinos and asians who moved to North America, so following your own logic, the american national identity is not real either.

 

[DavidS]

Diver buddy,

This is what happens when you don't have time to read the entire thread, you are too lazy to do it or simply are not paying much attention to it : )

DavidS said: there is no ethnic palestinians, just Arabs who moved to Palestine, therefore the palestinian national identity is not real.

Then I replied: there is no ethnic american either, just whites, blacks, latinos and asians who moved to North America, so following your own logic, the american national identity is not real either.

Yes, and? What's your point? There is no such thing as an ethnic American. We won this land in war. The Jews won Israel in war. What's the difference? Why do you call them to give up their land and not call for American to give up its land?

 

[DiveCon]

Diver buddy,

This is what happens when you don't have time to read the entire thread, you are too lazy to do it or simply are not paying much attention to it : )

DavidS said: there is no ethnic palestinians, just Arabs who moved to Palestine, therefore the palestinian national identity is not real.

Then I replied: there is no ethnic american either, just whites, blacks, latinos and asians who moved to North America, so following your own logic, the american national identity is not real either.

so, you did what i thought you did

pulled it out of your ass

btw, asshole, i HAVE read the whole thread
your post made ZERO sense in context with the thread since NO ONE ever made the claim of there BEING an American ethnicity

 

[Palestinian]

Well, if all you want is democracy, food, gas, etc. Israel has been trying to get the Palestinians to accept a state in the West Bank and Gaza for nearly a generation in exchange for peace, and the Arabs have refused. True, you would not get Jerusalem or the right of return or about 6% of the West Bank, but Israel has proposed giving a new Palestinian state some pre 1967 Israeli land in compensation, but you would be free to define for yourselves whatever rights you wanted and to build an economy that will provide you with food, gas and more, hopefully. So it's clear that peace with Israel will get you all the things you say you want and violence will prevent you from getting any of it.

As for the struggles you list, none of them parallel the situation between Israel and the Palestinians. Cuba was a revolution or civil war within a country, but since Israeli Arabs are not in rebellion, there is no civil war or revolution in Israel, and since the Israelis are not a foreign colonial power establishing outposts and colonies but nationals of an Israeli state that exists nowhere else, there is no parallel with Libya or Algeria.

So if all you honestly want is a Palestinian state in which you are able to define your own political rights and determine your own economic destiny, then all you have to do to get that is make peace with Israel, but if what you really want is to remove the Jewish state of Israel and you mean to do by these kinds of violent gestures, then you, not Israel, have condemned the Palestinian people to generations of pointless misery.

we've been there before. with Yaser Arafat , and Mahmoud Abbas .
and what did we get, Sharon stepped with his soldiers in Al-aqsa to infuriate muslims. Intefada occured. and alot of Palestinians got killed cruelly. he knew their limits and broke them.

at the same time that "Israel" was building powefull army. Palestinians were banned of having riffles.
how come a country in the world have no way to defend itself !!!
and till this day they occupy west bank,and now exterminating Gaza.
to other struggles i mentioned, none was the same, but it is similer. they all asked for rights and how did the got them ?!

should Palestinians shut up and give Gaza and west bank up too?! I dont think so. they know their lessons. giving up in 1948 was a verry bad idea ...

 

[DiveCon]

we've been there before. with Yaser Arafat , and Mahmoud Abbas .
and what did we get, Sharon stepped with his soldiers in Al-aqsa to infuriate muslims. Intefada occured. and alot of Palestinians got killed cruelly. he knew their limits and broke them.

at the same time that "Israel" was building powefull army. Palestinians were banned of having riffles.
how come a country in the world have no way to defend itself !!!
and till this day they occupy west bank,and now exterminating Gaza.
to other struggles i mentioned, none was the same, but it is similer. they all asked for rights and how did the got them ?!

should Palestinians shut up and give Gaza and west bank up too?! I dont think so. they know their lessons. giving up in 1948 was a verry bad idea ...

what a moronic post
the arabs didnt "give up" in 1948
they LOST

 

[toomuchtime_]

we've been there before. with Yaser Arafat , and Mahmoud Abbas .
and what did we get, Sharon stepped with his soldiers in Al-aqsa to infuriate muslims. Intefada occured. and alot of Palestinians got killed cruelly. he knew their limits and broke them.

at the same time that "Israel" was building powefull army. Palestinians were banned of having riffles.
how come a country in the world have no way to defend itself !!!
and till this day they occupy west bank,and now exterminating Gaza.
to other struggles i mentioned, none was the same, but it is similer. they all asked for rights and how did the got them ?!

should Palestinians shut up and give Gaza and west bank up too?! I dont think so. they know their lessons. giving up in 1948 was a verry bad idea ...

That's a remarkable statement. Are you really saying that the Palestinians rejected a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza because they were angry about Sharon walking through the al Aksa compound? Sharon's walk had nothing to do with the Palestinians. He was campaigning for upcoming Israeli elections, and he was making the point that he opposed Barak's offer to share control of Jerusalem with a new Palestinian state. But because the Palestinians reacted to Sharon's stroll through the compound with violence, Sharon won the election and because the violence continued the West Bank was reoccupied in an effort to stop the militants before they could reach Israel, and because the attacks still continued the West Bank fence was constructed, and that finally stopped the attacks, but has left the West Bank suffering under a very tight occupation. Had the Palestinians not reacted with the second intifada, there might be a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza today instead of a tight occupation in the West Bank and war in Gaza. How can you blame Israel for your present situation when you had the power to shape your own destiny back in 2000 by making peace with Israel and threw it away by reacting foolishly to Sharon's walk through the al Aksa compound?

The Palestinians don't have a state of their own because they turned down, albeit under pressure from the Arab nations, the UN's offer of an Arab state next to Jewish state, because accepting that offer would have required them to recognize and respect the legitimacy of the Jewish state, and then reacted to Sharon's walk with the second intifada while an offer of a Palestinian state was sitting on the table.

But all is not lost. Israel has offered Abbas essentially the same deal as the Palestinians rejected in 2000 if they can first unite under a single government that can and will prevent militant attacks against Israel even if Israel and the Palestinian state should disagree on some things in the future. So the only thing keeping the Palestinians from having a state of their own is Hamas in Gaza.

 

[José]

Originally posted by toomuchtime
The Palestinians don't have a state of their own because they turned down, albeit under pressure from the Arab nations.

Holy ignorance!!

Arafat turned down a palestinian state, under pressure from palestinian refugee camps!!!!

Everytime palestinian refugees feel their rights may be compromised through negotiations, spontaneous, grassroots movements are created in all palestinian refugee camps demanding that their rights are respected.

Palestinian leaders can "compromise" the right of return in English talking to western leaders/press all they want but the moment they do it in Arabic in front of their people they will be totally delegitimised.

Arafat himself came close to admitting it to the western press, no less:

ARAFAT: Would you betray your people?

ARAFAT: In your duty, in your position, are you ready to betray your people?

ARAFAT: ... do you accept to betray your people?

Interview with Christiane Amanpour, CNN, 2000

 

[DiveCon]

Holy ignorance!!

Arafat turned down a palestinian state, under pressure from palestinian refugee camps!!!!

Everytime palestinian refugees feel their rights may be compromised through negotiations, spontaneous, grassroots movements are created in all palestinian refugee camps demanding that their rights are respected.

Palestinian leaders can "compromise" the right of return in English talking to western leaders/press all they want but the moment they do it in Arabic in front of their people they will be totally delegitimised.

Arafat himself came close to admitting it to the western press, no less:

ARAFAT: Would you betray your people?

ARAFAT: In your duty, in your position, are you ready to betray your people?

ARAFAT: ... do you accept to betray your people?

Interview with Christiane Amanpour, CNN, 2000

so, in your mind, Israel should cease to exist so these fuckoffs can have ALL of what was renamed Palestine from Israel

 

[jillian]

so, in your mind, Israel should cease to exist so these fuckoffs can have ALL of what was renamed Palestine from Israel

so long as there are dead and subjugated jews he'll be happy.
but he's lying anyway. Arafat walked away from the peace deal because he said if he agreed to peace he'd "be drinking tea with Rabin".

He was a coward.... unlike Sadat and Rabin (and believe me, I hated some of the things Rabin was willing to agree to)

 

[DiveCon]

so long as there are dead and subjugated jews he'll be happy.
but he's lying anyway. Arafat walked away from the peace deal because he said if he agreed to peace he'd "be drinking tea with Rabin".

He was a coward.... unlike Sadat and Rabin (and believe me, I hated some of the things Rabin was willing to agree to)

i dont really care who gets gaza, they can make a new "philistia" if they want, couldnt give a rats ass

but the west bank IS Israel, and yet the Israelis are willing to give it up for peace
but somehow the Israelis are the bad guys for wanting a peaceful existence

 

[Truthmatters]

US Interests and Israel/Palestine