Israel's 'victories' in Gaza come at a steep price !

Palestinian

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Dec 30, 2008
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Cambridge, Mass. - I hear the voices of my friends in Gaza as clearly as if we were still on the phone; their agony echoes inside me. They weep and moan over the death of their children, some, little girls like mine, taken, their bodies burned and destroyed so senselessly.

One Palestinian friend asked me, "Why did Israel attack when the children were leaving school and the women were in the markets?" There are reports that some parents cannot find their dead children and are desperately roaming overflowing hospitals.

As Jews celebrated the last night of Hanukkah, the Jewish festival of lights commemorating our resurgence as a people, I asked myself: How am I to celebrate my Jewishness while Palestinians are being killed?

The religious scholar Marc Ellis challenges us further by asking whether the Jewish covenant with God is present or absent in the face of Jewish oppression of Palestinians? Is the Jewish ethical tradition still available to us? Is the promise of holiness – so central to our existence – now beyond our ability to reclaim?

The lucky ones in Gaza are locked in their homes living lives that have long been suspended – hungry, thirsty, and without light but their children are alive.

Since Nov. 4, when Israel effectively broke the truce with Hamas by attacking Gaza on a scale then unprecedented – a fact now buried with Gaza's dead – the violence has escalated as Hamas responded by sending hundreds of rockets into Israel to kill Israeli civilians. It is reported that Israel's strategy is to hit Hamas military targets, but explain that difference to my Palestinian friends who must bury their children.

On Nov. 5, Israel sealed all crossing points into Gaza, vastly reducing and at times denying food supplies, medicines, fuel, cooking gas, and parts for water and sanitation systems. A colleague of mine in Jerusalem said, "this siege is in a league of its own. The Israelis have not done something like this before."

During November, an average of 4.6 trucks of food per day entered Gaza from Israel compared with an average of 123 trucks per day in October. Spare parts for the repair and maintenance of water-related equipment have been denied entry for over a year. The World Health Organization just reported that half of Gaza's ambulances are now out of order.
According to the Associated Press, the three-day death toll rose to at least 370 by Tuesday morning, with some 1,400 wounded. The UN said at least 62 of the dead were civilians. A Palestinian health official said that at least 22 children under age 16 were killed and more than 235 children have been wounded.

In nearly 25 years of involvement with Gaza and Palestinians, I have not had to confront the horrific image of burned children – until today.
Yet for Palestinians it is more than an image, it is a reality, and because of that I fear something profound has changed that will not easily be undone. For how, in the context of Gaza today, does one speak of reconciliation as a path to liberation, of sympathy as a source of understanding? Where does one find or even begin to create a common field of human undertaking (to borrow from the late, acclaimed Palestinian scholar, Edward Said) so essential to coexistence?

It is one thing to take an individual's land, his home, his livelihood, to denigrate his claims, or ignore his emotions. It is another to destroy his child. What happens to a society where renewal is denied and all possibility has ended?

And what will happen to Jews as a people whether we live in Israel or not? Why have we been unable to accept the fundamental humanity of Palestinians and include them within our moral boundaries? Rather, we reject any human connection with the people we are oppressing. Ultimately, our goal is to tribalize pain, narrowing the scope of human suffering to ourselves alone.

Our rejection of "the other" will undo us. We must incorporate Palestinians and other Arab peoples into the Jewish understanding of history, because they are a part of that history. We must question our own narrative and the one we have given others, rather than continue to cherish beliefs and sentiments that betray the Jewish ethical tradition.
Jewish intellectuals oppose racism, repression, and injustice almost everywhere in the world and yet it is still unacceptable – indeed, for some, it's an act of heresy – to oppose it when Israel is the oppressor. This double standard must end.

Israel's victories are pyrrhic and reveal the limits of Israeli power and our own limitations as a people: our inability to live a life without barriers. Are these the boundaries of our rebirth after the Holocaust?

As Jews in a post-Holocaust world empowered by a Jewish state, how do we as a people emerge from atrocity and abjection, empowered and also humane? How do we move beyond fear to envision something different, even if uncertain?

The answers will determine who we are and what, in the end, we become.

BY Sara Roy.
 
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Considering jews have been hounded and killed since the dawn of history I hardly think they much care about world 'opinion' at this point on anything they do.
 
In the long term it simply doesn't matter whether jews care about world opinion or not.

A completely dysfunctional supremacist state that drives the arab youth to turn thousands of westerners into worm food on a beautiful september morning will innevitably have an appointment with the dustbin of History just like South Africa under apartheid.
 
Considering jews have been hounded and killed since the dawn of history I hardly think they much care about world 'opinion' at this point on anything they do.

7 words that we've said to Arabs for over a hundred years now.

LEAVE US THE FUCK ALONE OR ELSE

They don't seem to get the "or else" part.

Where are all of those land mines and IED's and waves of suicide bombers Hamas promised? This ground invasion is kind of boring.
 
José;975610 said:
In the long term it simply doesn't matter whether jews care about world opinion or not.

A completely dysfunctional supremacist state that drives the arab youth to turn thousands of westerners into worm food on a beautiful september morning will innevitably have an appointment with the dustbin of History just like South Africa under apartheid.

This is where you are wrong. Jews do not cause Arabs to act like animals. The Arabs are just using us as their scapegoat. An excuse to kill, because they really have none other than they are animals.
 
Originally posted by David
This is where you are wrong. Jews do not cause Arabs to act like animals. The Arabs are just using us as their scapegoat. An excuse to kill, because they really have none other than they are animals.

David,

Why should the palestinian people pay the price for a crime against humanity they didn't commit?

Your people, the victims of one of the most ferocious ethnic supremacist state in the history of mankind should be the last people in the world to impose an ethnic supremacist state on others.
 
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Whatever the price, you fuckers must be destroyed. It has been made abundantly clear that your existence is malicious.
 
Cambridge, Mass. - I hear the voices of my friends in Gaza as clearly as if we were still on the phone; their agony echoes inside me. They weep and moan over the death of their children, some, little girls like mine, taken, their bodies burned and destroyed so senselessly.

One Palestinian friend asked me, "Why did Israel attack when the children were leaving school and the women were in the markets?" There are reports that some parents cannot find their dead children and are desperately roaming overflowing hospitals.

As Jews celebrated the last night of Hanukkah, the Jewish festival of lights commemorating our resurgence as a people, I asked myself: How am I to celebrate my Jewishness while Palestinians are being killed?

The religious scholar Marc Ellis challenges us further by asking whether the Jewish covenant with God is present or absent in the face of Jewish oppression of Palestinians? Is the Jewish ethical tradition still available to us? Is the promise of holiness – so central to our existence – now beyond our ability to reclaim?

The lucky ones in Gaza are locked in their homes living lives that have long been suspended – hungry, thirsty, and without light but their children are alive.

Since Nov. 4, when Israel effectively broke the truce with Hamas by attacking Gaza on a scale then unprecedented – a fact now buried with Gaza's dead – the violence has escalated as Hamas responded by sending hundreds of rockets into Israel to kill Israeli civilians. It is reported that Israel's strategy is to hit Hamas military targets, but explain that difference to my Palestinian friends who must bury their children.

On Nov. 5, Israel sealed all crossing points into Gaza, vastly reducing and at times denying food supplies, medicines, fuel, cooking gas, and parts for water and sanitation systems. A colleague of mine in Jerusalem said, "this siege is in a league of its own. The Israelis have not done something like this before."

During November, an average of 4.6 trucks of food per day entered Gaza from Israel compared with an average of 123 trucks per day in October. Spare parts for the repair and maintenance of water-related equipment have been denied entry for over a year. The World Health Organization just reported that half of Gaza's ambulances are now out of order.
According to the Associated Press, the three-day death toll rose to at least 370 by Tuesday morning, with some 1,400 wounded. The UN said at least 62 of the dead were civilians. A Palestinian health official said that at least 22 children under age 16 were killed and more than 235 children have been wounded.

In nearly 25 years of involvement with Gaza and Palestinians, I have not had to confront the horrific image of burned children – until today.
Yet for Palestinians it is more than an image, it is a reality, and because of that I fear something profound has changed that will not easily be undone. For how, in the context of Gaza today, does one speak of reconciliation as a path to liberation, of sympathy as a source of understanding? Where does one find or even begin to create a common field of human undertaking (to borrow from the late, acclaimed Palestinian scholar, Edward Said) so essential to coexistence?

It is one thing to take an individual's land, his home, his livelihood, to denigrate his claims, or ignore his emotions. It is another to destroy his child. What happens to a society where renewal is denied and all possibility has ended?

And what will happen to Jews as a people whether we live in Israel or not? Why have we been unable to accept the fundamental humanity of Palestinians and include them within our moral boundaries? Rather, we reject any human connection with the people we are oppressing. Ultimately, our goal is to tribalize pain, narrowing the scope of human suffering to ourselves alone.

Our rejection of "the other" will undo us. We must incorporate Palestinians and other Arab peoples into the Jewish understanding of history, because they are a part of that history. We must question our own narrative and the one we have given others, rather than continue to cherish beliefs and sentiments that betray the Jewish ethical tradition.
Jewish intellectuals oppose racism, repression, and injustice almost everywhere in the world and yet it is still unacceptable – indeed, for some, it's an act of heresy – to oppose it when Israel is the oppressor. This double standard must end.

Israel's victories are pyrrhic and reveal the limits of Israeli power and our own limitations as a people: our inability to live a life without barriers. Are these the boundaries of our rebirth after the Holocaust?

As Jews in a post-Holocaust world empowered by a Jewish state, how do we as a people emerge from atrocity and abjection, empowered and also humane? How do we move beyond fear to envision something different, even if uncertain?

The answers will determine who we are and what, in the end, we become.

BY Sara Roy.
then maybe you assholes should have thought about this before you started lobbing the rockets
 
As Jews in a post-Holocaust world empowered by a Jewish state, how do we as a people emerge from atrocity and abjection, empowered and also humane? How do we move beyond fear to envision something different, even if uncertain?

Well, it would helped a LOT if a Palestinian had founded four great banks that had so much money that they afford to could LOAN Britian enough money to fight World War I like the Rothchilds did.

Then the Palestinians could have easily prevented Balfour from promising Palestine to the European Zionists as compensation for their assistance.
 
Well, it would helped a LOT if a Palestinian had founded four great banks that had so much money that they afford to could LOAN Britian enough money to fight World War I like the Rothchilds did.

Then the Palestinians could have easily prevented Balfour from promising Palestine to the European Zionists as compensation for their assistance.

which doesn't explain why the pals were tossed from Jordan, does it?

perhaps it could have helped if the pals actually built stuff and got educated and ran a government that didn't rape its people and put them in harms way or that would agree to peace... or...

well, you get the picture.
 
José;975625 said:
Why should the palestinian people pay the price for a crime against humanity they didn't commit?

Oh you mean suicide bombings? Wait, they did those. You mean lobbing rockets into Israeli civilian towns and villages? Oh wait, they did those as well. You mean going into schools and shooting children intentionally? Yeah, wait, they did those too.

So, what crime did these people not commit?

Your people, the victims of one of the most ferocious ethnic supremacist state in the history of mankind should be the last people in the world to impose an ethnic supremacist state on others.

Actually, Israel has more ethnicities and religions in it than any other Middle East nation. There are about 10-11 different ethnicities that live in Israel and Arabs are a huge part of them. Compared to Iran, where most of the population is... Iran, compared to Jordan where most of the population is Arab, compared to Saudi Arabia, where most of the population is Arab... wait, I'm getting at something here. Could it be that Israel isn't that supermacist state you talk of and every single other Arab country is?

How many languages are the official language of Israel? Two. Hebrew and Arabic. How many languages are the official language of all of the other Arab countries? One. Arabic.

Israel won the West Bank and Gaza strip in the 1967 war from Egypt and Jordan. At that point, Israel could have kicked every single Arab out of the lands and taken the land for ourselves. But we decided not to, in fact we begged them to stay and create communities.. but they didn't. They created terrorism.

When Christian churches are damaged in storms or in fires, the Jews welcome the Christians to use their Synogogue for their Sunday services. If the same happens to a Synogogue, the Christians welcome to the Jews for Shabbat services on Friday night and Saturday. When was the last time a Jew or a Christian was welcomed to use a mosque for a Jewish or Christian service because our house of worship was damaged?

You're on the wrong side, Jose.
 
Every suicide bombing came AFTER jews decided to carve out a nation from Pali land. Had you kept your jewish ass in your actual home nations then you would not have to make excuses for yourself every time the indigenous population decides that they don't like being herded like kosher cattle for your jewish benefit.


SHOCKER, I know.
 
Every suicide bombing came AFTER jews decided to carve out a nation from Pali land.

Actually, when the "Jews carved out a nation from Pal land" it wasn't Pali land. It was Ottoman Empire land. The Ottoman Empire collapsed and there was no government in the area known as Palestine. The League of Nations came in and carved up the Ottoman Empire into several Arab states (Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc.). They then gave one, small area to the Jews. Both the Arabs and the Jews joined together in their uprising against the Ottomans during world war 1 and both were rewarded, the Arabs moreso.

There was a very small population in the area known as Palestine of Arab Muslims and Jewish farmers. Less than 100,000 people lived there and the land was barren and had no real villages, no town centers, no anything that would constitute any form of meaningful civilization. This is not my opinion, this is a fact.

Your continued refusal to accept written history that is well documented by every party is quite frustrating.
 
Actually, when the "Jews carved out a nation from Pal land" it wasn't Pali land. It was Ottoman Empire land. The Ottoman Empire collapsed and there was no government in the area known as Palestine. The League of Nations came in and carved up the Ottoman Empire into several Arab states (Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, etc.). They then gave one, small area to the Jews. Both the Arabs and the Jews joined together in their uprising against the Ottomans during world war 1 and both were rewarded, the Arabs moreso.

There was a very small population in the area known as Palestine of Arab Muslims and Jewish farmers. Less than 100,000 people lived there and the land was barren and had no real villages, no town centers, no anything that would constitute any form of meaningful civilization. This is not my opinion, this is a fact.

Your continued refusal to accept written history that is well documented by every party is quite frustrating.

go ahead and hide behind nomenclautre if you want to.. LORD FUCKING KNOWS how every native population in the northern American continent gave a fuck about how their land was carved up and rationalized by a steadily encroaching population of white people.

:thup:

if you don't accept them because of YOUR standards makes no difference to those who were living there and know better than your zionist knee jerk reaction when it comes to being chased off land for the sake of a jewish nation. written history, indeed.. unfortunately for you, we don't all take our history lessons from the jewish virtual library.
 
go ahead and hide behind nomenclautre if you want to.. LORD FUCKING KNOWS how every native population in the northern American continent gave a fuck about how their land was carved up and rationalized by a steadily encroaching population of white people.

:thup:

if you don't accept them because of YOUR standards makes no difference to those who were living there and know better than your zionist knee jerk reaction when it comes to being chased off land for the sake of a jewish nation. written history, indeed.. unfortunately for you, we don't all take our history lessons from the jewish virtual library.

This has nothing to do with North America or Native Indian tribes. This was Ottoman land. Ottomans lost World War 1, the allies carved up the Ottoman land and gave a tiny piece to the Jews. It hadn't been Arab land since the Crusades of the early 1000s when the Crusadors punished the Arabs for protecting the Jews against the evil Christians. When the land was under Arab control during the reign of the Islamic Empire, the Jews had, what we call, our golden age and the Arabs and Jews were as close or even closer than the Israelis and the US today, or even the US and England. The Jews viewed the Arab Muslims as their protectors and guardians in faith and for hundreds of years, Arabs and Jews fought side by side and died for one another to protect one another. That all came to an end when the Crusadors lost the land.

After the Crusadors, the Malmuks ruled over Israel and after them the Ottomans did. The land has not been under Arab control since the 1000s. This is, once again, not opinion, not trying to kick Arabs out of their land, this is fact. It was not their land. While there were several thousand Arab Muslims there when the land was given to the Jews, the Jews welcomed the Arabs there and wanted them to stay there. Many decided to and they are productive members of Israeli society today. Others decided to leave - their decesion, not ours.
 
It has EVERYTHING to do with understanding how native populations respond to being socially dominated by people who can rationalize away their humanity.



But, why the hell am I even discussing this with mr "bomb all those muslims to death" anyway? You wouldn't give a damn about oxygen unless you could market it with a star of david on the bottle.
 
oh, and since you identify with israel more than the US feel free to take your ass there permanently instead of doing what comes natural to you and hide behind the American pantleg, you giant pussy.
 
Well, it would helped a LOT if a Palestinian had founded four great banks that had so much money that they afford to could LOAN Britian enough money to fight World War I like the Rothchilds did.

Then the Palestinians could have easily prevented Balfour from promising Palestine to the European Zionists as compensation for their assistance.

It would have helped if the Arabs living there had had any record of accomplishment in any area of life, but they didn't. While the Jews that the British knew had managed, despite living in a culture that despised them, that passed discriminatory laws against them and had expelled them from every country in Europe at one time or another, to rise to the top in nearly every field of endeavor, in the arts and sciences, in business and finance and even in the governments that despised them and had passed all those discriminatory laws against them, the Arabs the British knew were a backward people with an alien culture.

So naturally the British, who expected to have a strong sphere of influence and brisk commercial relations in the area for many years to come, would prefer to have a modern, prosperous Jewish state with European values and no prospects of having allies in the area other than Britain as its ally and base of operations to an Arab state still stuck in the 12th century and more likely to form strong alliances with other Arab states than with Britain.

However, whatever the reason Israel was created, the fact is that the Arab people in the area were not harmed in any way by the creation of the tiny state of Israel, but by the fallout from the Arab attacks against the state of Israel, just as the Palestinians today are not harmed in any way by the existence of the state of Israel but by the fallout from their attacks on Israel.
 
It has EVERYTHING to do with understanding how native populations respond to being socially dominated by people who can rationalize away their humanity.

But, why the hell am I even discussing this with mr "bomb all those muslims to death" anyway? You wouldn't give a damn about oxygen unless you could market it with a star of david on the bottle.

I would surely understand your anger had the League of Nations gone into Mecca and said Mecca is for the Buddhists or something. Arabia belongs to the Arabs, there is no doubt about that.

But these arabs that are on Israeli land are about as native to Israel as Sarkozy is native to Japan. Just because they live there, doesn't mean they're native to the land. Hell, I lived in florida for 11 years. There's no way I'm even close to being as dumb as those people are (excluding Silence). The blood, the genes, the DNA of these so-called Palestinians is no different than the blood from those of Abd Al Aziz Al Saud. They are Arabs. Arabs come from... you guessed it, Arabia. Persians come from... Persia or recently named Iran. Chinese people come from.. come on, Shogun, I know you can get this this. China!

Now, whether or not a people wishes to expand beyond its original borders is completely up to the people and the people who live beyond the borders. The Arabs are quite successful at expanding beyond their borders. They cannot, will not, never had and never will have Israel. That's just as simple of an explanation as I can give as rain is wet.
 
I would surely understand your anger had the League of Nations gone into Mecca and said Mecca is for the Buddhists or something. Arabia belongs to the Arabs, there is no doubt about that.

But these arabs that are on Israeli land are about as native to Israel as Sarkozy is native to Japan. Just because they live there, doesn't mean they're native to the land. Hell, I lived in florida for 11 years. There's no way I'm even close to being as dumb as those people are (excluding Silence). The blood, the genes, the DNA of these so-called Palestinians is no different than the blood from those of Abd Al Aziz Al Saud. They are Arabs. Arabs come from... you guessed it, Arabia. Persians come from... Persia or recently named Iran. Chinese people come from.. come on, Shogun, I know you can get this this. China!

Now, whether or not a people wishes to expand beyond its original borders is completely up to the people and the people who live beyond the borders. The Arabs are quite successful at expanding beyond their borders. They cannot, will not, never had and never will have Israel. That's just as simple of an explanation as I can give as rain is wet.

don't sell yourself short. you're extremely dumb.

you could give a box of rocks a run for its money.
 

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