Israel & iran

[JStone]

Quote: Originally Posted by loinboy
It was what happened after they immigrated, which started the violence. 80 years prior to that, there was no significant violence between the two groups.

You're allowed to be uneducated.

Jews are the only indigenous people of Israel dating back 3000 years and verified by the archaeological record.

Tashbih Sayyed, Muslim Pakistani Scholar, Journalist, Author and Former Editor in Chief of Our Times, Pakistan Today, and The Muslim World Today

Blinded by their anti-Semitism, Arabs ignore the fact that neither are they an indigenous group nor is the Jewish nationhood a new phenomenon in Palestine; the Jewish nation was born during 40 years of wandering in the Sinai more than five thousand years ago and has remained connected with Palestine ever since. “Even after the destruction of the last Jewish commonwealth in the first century, the Jewish people maintained their own autonomous political and legal institutions: the Davidic dynasty was preserved in Baghdad until the thirteenth century through the rule of the Exilarch (Resh Galuta), while the return to Zion was incorporated into the most widely practiced Jewish traditions, including the end of the Yom Kippur service and the Passover Seder, as well as in everyday prayers. Thus, Jewish historic rights were kept alive in Jewish historical consciousness.

It is a matter of record that the Arabs owe their presence in Palestine to the Ottomans who settled Muslim populations as a buffer against Bedouin attacks and Ibrahim Pasha, the Egyptian ruler who brought Egyptian colonists with his army in the 1830s. And during all those times when Arabs lived under the Ottoman rule, they never showed any desire for national independence.

Jerusalem has always remained a Jewish majority – a symbol of Jewish yearning to be an independent nation as they thrived in communities in many of Palestine’s towns. “By 1864, a clear-cut Jewish majority emerged in Jerusalem - more than half a century before the arrival of the British Empire and the League of Nations Mandate. During the years that the Jewish presence in Eretz Israel was restored, a huge Arab population influx transpired as Arab immigrants sought to take advantage of higher wages and economic opportunities that resulted from Jewish settlement in the land. President Roosevelt concluded in 1939 that "Arab immigration into Palestine since 1921 has vastly exceeded the total Jewish immigration during the whole period."

The present Arab declaration challenging the Jewish character of Israel cannot be ignored because it is not just an expression of dissatisfaction by a minority about their socio-economic situation but a reminder that Islamist radicalism and fundamentalism has now decided to challenge openly the legitimacy of the Jewish state.
Global Politician - Israel?s Arab Citizens And The Jewish State

PBS: Civilization and the Jews

The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it’s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it’s own right; it asserted it’s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
PBS - Heritage

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.

Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah

The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.

PBS Nova ...

In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele. Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.

The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago

Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Billo_Really]

There is no such thing as a Jew only rode or Jew only settlement, there is however a distinction between citizen and not citizen like in any other country.
Like in any other country, citizens enjoying more rights then non-citizens.
An Arab citizen could drive on any road and live in any settlement he wishes.
Race is not the factor here, citizenship is.

If there is no "jew only" roads, then what is the "separation wall" separating?

If arabs have the same rights as jews in Israel, then why were 6 of them dragged off a bus and arrested for wanting to go to a "jew only" settlement?

On November 15th, Palestinian activists boarded segregated Israeli settler public transport headed to occupied East Jerusalem in an historic act of civil disobedience inspired by the Freedom Riders of the U.S. Civil Rights Movement.

The six Freedom Riders -- Fadi Quran, Nadeem Al-Sharbate, Badee Dwak, Huwaida Arraf, Basel Al-Araj and Mazin Qumsiyeh -- chose to board a bus that serves Jewish-only settlements in the West Bank on it's way to Occupied East Jerusalem, wearing kuffiyehs (Palestinian scarfs) and t-shirts reading 'Justice', 'Freedom', and 'We Shall Overcome'.

While Israelis are allowed to come and go as they wish in the Occupied Territory—even to settle in it in contradiction to international law— Palestinians' movement in their own land is severely restricted, even criminalized. This kind of racism and segregation is as abhorrent today as it was 50 years ago in the Jim Crow South.

Live anywhere, my ass!

 

[Hossfly]

At least I know what international law allows a country to legally attack another.

what's all that talk about legality?
Was that US attack on Iraq legal? Or Afghanistan? Was it in accordance with international law?

I am sorry to say but that international law is a joke. No one pays attention to it, and when it's broken nothing gets done about it.

That's a pretty un-American thing to say, since our country is based on the rule of law. Part of what it means to be an American, is respect for the law. That's what made us different. Now, for you to advocate lawlessness, goes against our American heritage. If you're right, that's like saying it was okay for Hitler to invade Poland.

Our invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were the most illegal thing a country can do. I'll spell it out for you...

These wars, are wars of choice.
We "chose" to go to war, we did not "have" to go to war.
Wars of choice, are wars of aggression.
And wars of aggression, are crimes against humanity.
And this particular crime, is the highest crime of all, because it contains the collective evil of all the rest.

The US is a law abiding country and follow the rules of international law even if, as Wolverine says, it's a joke. And the US is also the strictest follower of the Accords of the Geneva Conventions. Your lawyering seems to be of the shithouse lawer veriety, as we used to say in the army.

 

[Billo_Really]

You're allowed to be uneducated.

Jews are the only indigenous people of Israel dating back 3000 years and verified by the archaeological record.

Repeating is not proving.

If I'm so un-educated, why do you always have to use the words of others to make a claim?

 

[Hossfly]

You are gravely mistaken.
Israel only prevents the smuggling of weapons inside the Gaza Strip all other provisions are allowed in.
So your statements about collectively punishing Gaza is totally wrong( unless it counts as punishing when you're not providing them with weapons ).

Why can't Gaza have weapons? Are you saying they have no right to defend themselves from aggression? When they are invaded by a foreign army, they're not allowed to shoot back?

While you're thinking about that, here's what Physician's for Human Rights have to say about the condition in Gaza (caused by the blockade)...

Currently 61% of the population in the Gaza Strip, or 973,600 people, suffer from a lack of food security, defined by the United Nations World Food Programme (WFP) as “the absence of access to sufficient, safe and nutritious food to meet their dietary needs and food preferences for an active and healthy life.” Among this population, 94% of the households report a decline in the quality of food purchased over the past year, while 59% report a decline in the amount of food consumed. Dependence on humanitarian aid from the international organizations is also constantly on the rise; Currently, 71 percent of Gaza households rely in some capacity on international humanitarian aid.

The report attributes high rates of food insecurity to an increase in unemployment and poverty rates, which have gone up by more than 40% in the past three years, as a result of the precarious situation facing Gaza's economy, which is paralyzed by Israeli controls.

This whole "how can you blame Israel" crap really gets old. Israel is doing some very bad things and nobody seems to have the balls to admit it.

The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.

 

[JStone]

You're allowed to be uneducated.

Jews are the only indigenous people of Israel dating back 3000 years and verified by the archaeological record.

Repeating is not proving.

If I'm so un-educated, why do you always have to use the words of others to make a claim?

In adidtion to being embarrassingly uneducated, you're mentally ill as reflected in your attempt to post a source in another thread who is a 9/11 truther and a friend of David Duke.

 

[Billo_Really]

The US is a law abiding country and follow the rules of international law even if, as Wolverine says, it's a joke. And the US is also the strictest follower of the Accords of the Geneva Conventions. Your lawyering seems to be of the shithouse lawer veriety, as we used to say in the army.

That's what we thought and would all like to think. But that's not the reality of what has happened in the last 10 years. We attacked a country that had not attacked us and tried to re-define Geneva Convention terms that have been around since the Magna Carta, just so we wouldn't be prosecuted for torturing people.

And in light of the fact of our practice of renditions and indefinate detentions, your "strictest follower" comment falls a little short.

 

[JStone]

There is no such thing as a Jew only rode or Jew only settlement, there is however a distinction between citizen and not citizen like in any other country.
Like in any other country, citizens enjoying more rights then non-citizens.
An Arab citizen could drive on any road and live in any settlement he wishes.
Race is not the factor here, citizenship is.

If there is no "jew only" roads, then what is the "separation wall" separating?

If arabs have the same rights as jews in Israel, then why were 6 of them dragged off a bus and arrested for wanting to go to a "jew only" settlement?

On November 15th, Palestinian activists boarded segregated Israeli settler public transport headed to occupied East Jerusalem in an historic act of civil disobedience inspired by the Freedom Riders of the U.S. Civil Rights Movement.

The six Freedom Riders -- Fadi Quran, Nadeem Al-Sharbate, Badee Dwak, Huwaida Arraf, Basel Al-Araj and Mazin Qumsiyeh -- chose to board a bus that serves Jewish-only settlements in the West Bank on it's way to Occupied East Jerusalem, wearing kuffiyehs (Palestinian scarfs) and t-shirts reading 'Justice', 'Freedom', and 'We Shall Overcome'.

While Israelis are allowed to come and go as they wish in the Occupied Territory—even to settle in it in contradiction to international law— Palestinians' movement in their own land is severely restricted, even criminalized. This kind of racism and segregation is as abhorrent today as it was 50 years ago in the Jim Crow South.

Live anywhere, my ass!

Your pointy little head is up your ass.

Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank...

The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish people to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory [Palestine]. The Jewish right of settlement in Palestine west of the Jordan river, that is, in Israel, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a recognized peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter, "the Palestine article," which provides that "nothing in the Charter shall be construed ... to alter in any manner the rights whatsoever of any states or any peoples or the terms of existing international instruments...."

The mandate implicitly denies Arab claims to national political rights in the area in favor of the Jews; the mandated territory was in effect reserved to the Jewish people for their self-determination and political development, in acknowledgment of the historic connection of the Jewish people to the land. Lord Curzon, who was then the British Foreign Minister, made this reading of the mandate explicit. There remains simply the theory that the Arab inhabitants of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip have an inherent 'natural law' claim to the area. Neither customary international law nor the United Nations Charter acknowledges that every group of people claiming to be a nation has the right to a state of its own."
Resolved: are the settlements legal? Israeli West Bank policies

 

[Billo_Really]

In adidtion to being embarrassingly uneducated, you're mentally ill as reflected in your attempt to post a source in another thread who is a 9/11 truther and a friend of David Duke.

And you're pretty retarded for saying that a particular website proves Einsteiin didn't call Begin a terrorist and zionists a bunch of fascists.

 

[Billo_Really]

Your pointy little head is up your ass.

Eugene Rostow, Legal Scholar, former Dean of the Yale Law School, Under Secretary of State in the Johnson administration, US State Dept Legal Advisor, Drafter of UN Res. 242 pertaining to Israeli land in the West Bank...

Your response has nothing to do with what I was talking about. God, are you clueless!

 

[Billo_Really]

The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.

Whether you like it or not, they're the democratically elected government of Gaza. And that's what governments do, buy guns and ammo to protect their citizens. Which, BTW, is none of Israel's god-damn business!

 

[JStone]

The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.

Whether you like it or not, they're the democratically elected government of Gaza. And that's what governments do, buy guns and ammo to protect their citizens. Which, BTW, is none of Israel's god-damn business!

Hamas which controls gaza is designated as a terrorist faction by the US, EU, Canada and Australia.

Now, you know, dummy

 

[docmauser1]

If there is no "jew only" roads, then what is the "separation wall" separating?

If arabs have the same rights as jews in Israel,

What did palistanians forget in Israel (excluding their dreams of plundering the latter, of course), if they've got their very own palistan with their very own Abu Mazen? It's called one palistan too many, of course.

then why were 6 of them dragged off a bus and arrested for wanting to go to a "jew only" settlement?

We don't hear about jews "wanting to go" to a palistanian-only settlement, do we? So, what's the fuss?

 

[Hossfly]

The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.

Whether you like it or not, they're the democratically elected government of Gaza. And that's what governments do, buy guns and ammo to protect their citizens. Which, BTW, is none of Israel's god-damn business!

North Korea has often been referred to as "a nation of criminals." So should the Hamas (terrorist organization) controlled Gaza be referred to as "a nation of thieves."

 

[JStone]

The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.

Whether you like it or not, they're the democratically elected government of Gaza. And that's what governments do, buy guns and ammo to protect their citizens. Which, BTW, is none of Israel's god-damn business!

North Korea has often been referred to as "a nation of criminals." So should the Hamas (terrorist organization) controlled Gaza be referred to as "a nation of thieves."

The nazis were "democratically" elected. Democracy is far more than elections.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.

Whether you like it or not, they're the democratically elected government of Gaza. And that's what governments do, buy guns and ammo to protect their citizens. Which, BTW, is none of Israel's god-damn business!

You are mistaken. Their term in office expired in 2009, and since then they have refused to allow new elections. Hamas now holds power in Gaza at the point of a gun and is in no sense the legitimate government of the Palestinian Arabs who live there.

 

[Hossfly]

Whether you like it or not, they're the democratically elected government of Gaza. And that's what governments do, buy guns and ammo to protect their citizens. Which, BTW, is none of Israel's god-damn business!

North Korea has often been referred to as "a nation of criminals." So should the Hamas (terrorist organization) controlled Gaza be referred to as "a nation of thieves."

The nazis were "democratically" elected. Democracy is far more than elections.

You could also say Obama was "democratically elected."

 

[P F Tinmore]

The needy people would have food, medical care and sustenance if the criminally insane Hamas didn't spend all the aid money for arms and ammo.

Whether you like it or not, they're the democratically elected government of Gaza. And that's what governments do, buy guns and ammo to protect their citizens. Which, BTW, is none of Israel's god-damn business!

You are mistaken. Their term in office expired in 2009, and since then they have refused to allow new elections. Hamas now holds power in Gaza at the point of a gun and is in no sense the legitimate government of the Palestinian Arabs who live there.

That is not true. The president has a specified term of four years. Abbas's term in office expired January 9, 2009. However, there are no time limits on the prime minister or cabinet ministers. They stay in office until replaced.

 

[JStone]

Whether you like it or not, they're the democratically elected government of Gaza. And that's what governments do, buy guns and ammo to protect their citizens. Which, BTW, is none of Israel's god-damn business!

You are mistaken. Their term in office expired in 2009, and since then they have refused to allow new elections. Hamas now holds power in Gaza at the point of a gun and is in no sense the legitimate government of the Palestinian Arabs who live there.

That is not true. The president has a specified term of four years. Abbas's term in office expired January 9, 2009. However, there are no time limits on the prime minister or cabinet ministers. They stay in office until replaced.

These little fuckers still can't get their shit together after all these years? The Jews created one of the most advanced countries in the world.

Are Arabs inferior?

 

[Billo_Really]

You are mistaken. Their term in office expired in 2009, and since then they have refused to allow new elections. Hamas now holds power in Gaza at the point of a gun and is in no sense the legitimate government of the Palestinian Arabs who live there.

Hmmmm.............that's a little strange. If you're right, that would mean their term in office only lasted 1 year, since they were elected in 2008. Doesn't really matter. The election was democratic and sanctioned by international observers. It was right after that, Israel started the economic blockade of Gaza. Because they didn't like the results of an election that was none of their god-damn business. That's how fucked the Israeli's are!