Israel attacks Gaza strip after Hamas armed wing parade

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Ah, yes --- here we are again, raise objections about matters of fact.

The UN has no authority over land.

(COMMENT)

There is no record of any Arab Palestinian sovereignty (supreme power or authority) in the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine.

Quite right. I don't think that is what I said. When you twist the words around, you get a false answer.

Article 75
The United Nations shall establish under its authority an international trusteeship system for the administration and supervision of such territories as may be placed thereunder by subsequent individual agreements. These territories are hereinafter referred to as trust territories.

Article 77
1. The trusteeship system shall apply to such territories in the following categories as may be placed thereunder by means of trusteeship agreements:

a. territories now held under mandate;
b. territories which may be detached from enemy states as a result of the Second World War; and
c. territories voluntarily placed under the system by states responsible for their administration.
​

Yes it does. Just because illegal external interference prevents them from exercising that right does not negate that right.

(COMMENT)

It is often important to remember that the phrase "Palestinian land laws" refers to "ownership of land" under the Palestinian Authority (PA)(a real estate matter).

The Palestinian Land Laws[1] are Palestinian Authority (PA) laws that prohibit Palestinians from selling Palestinian territory lands to Jews.[2][3][4][5] These land laws were originally enacted during the Jordanian occupation of the West Bank (1948–1967),[3] and are deemed by the Palestinian Authority as being necessary to prevent further expansion of Israeli settlements in the Palestinian territories and to "halt the spread of moral, political and security corruption".
SOURCE: definition - palestinian land laws

Most Respectfully,
R

These land laws were originally enacted during the Jordanian occupation of the West Bank (1948–1967)​

Don't you consistently say that was sovereign Jordanian territory? I have always said it was occupied Palestinian territory. That is why it is still occupied Palestinian territory.

Some say that the West Bank is not occupied. (Common Israeli narrative.)

Some say that the territory outside the resolution 181 border is occupied. (Common during the time of Israel's statehood bid.)

Some say that all of Palestine is occupied. (Common Palestinian narrative.)

Is there any way to resolve this confusion?

Yes look at the facts based on international laws and historical documentation. When you do this you find that no nation of palestine has ever existed and the arab muslims have no legal or moral right to the land destined as the Jewish national home.

You wouldn't have links to that?

Of course not.

Yes and unlike you I have posted them proving that in 1923 the legal sovereign land owners of the mandate of palestine granted 78% to the arab muslims called trans Jordan and 22% to the Jews called the Jewish national home. When trans Jordan was created the arab muslims demanded an amendment to the international laws giving them the land to the effect than no Jews would be allowed to live in Trans Jordan unless sanctioned by the rulers, and conversely that no arab muslims would be allowed to live in the Jewish national home unless allowed by the rulers. The links are the mandate of palestine and the minutes of the LoN annual meetings. Now be a good boy and read them to see just how brainless you are presenting yourself.



BY THE WAY WE ARE ALL STILL WAITING FOR YOUR LINKS TO THE NATION OF PALESTINE ExISTING SOMETIME IN 1923 ?

You have been reading those document through Israeli colored glasses.

They don't say what you think.

 

[Phoenall]

How is their "parade" relevant to the air-force's response to Gaza's crimes yesterday?

Gaza Crimes? Targeting a water tower is collective punishment, A War crime

Not if it was used for terrorism, then according to INTERNATIONAL LAW it becomes a military target. Put a spotter on the top and you have just made it a valid target. Put a hamas terrorist at the top of a minaret to act as a range finder and the mosque becomes a military target. Fire a rocket fro the grounds of a mosque or water tower and it is a valid target.

There's always a good rationale for war and killing.

So says the pom pom waving cheerleader for islamonazi terrorism and violence


Stop attackiing Israel and they will stop responding in kind, is that too simple for you to understand ?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Ah, yes --- here we are again, raise objections about matters of fact.

(COMMENT)

There is no record of any Arab Palestinian sovereignty (supreme power or authority) in the territory formerly under the Mandate of Palestine.

Quite right. I don't think that is what I said. When you twist the words around, you get a false answer.

​

(COMMENT)

It is often important to remember that the phrase "Palestinian land laws" refers to "ownership of land" under the Palestinian Authority (PA)(a real estate matter).

Most Respectfully,
R

These land laws were originally enacted during the Jordanian occupation of the West Bank (1948–1967)​

Don't you consistently say that was sovereign Jordanian territory? I have always said it was occupied Palestinian territory. That is why it is still occupied Palestinian territory.

Some say that the West Bank is not occupied. (Common Israeli narrative.)

Some say that the territory outside the resolution 181 border is occupied. (Common during the time of Israel's statehood bid.)

Some say that all of Palestine is occupied. (Common Palestinian narrative.)

Is there any way to resolve this confusion?

Yes look at the facts based on international laws and historical documentation. When you do this you find that no nation of palestine has ever existed and the arab muslims have no legal or moral right to the land destined as the Jewish national home.

You wouldn't have links to that?

Of course not.

Yes and unlike you I have posted them proving that in 1923 the legal sovereign land owners of the mandate of palestine granted 78% to the arab muslims called trans Jordan and 22% to the Jews called the Jewish national home. When trans Jordan was created the arab muslims demanded an amendment to the international laws giving them the land to the effect than no Jews would be allowed to live in Trans Jordan unless sanctioned by the rulers, and conversely that no arab muslims would be allowed to live in the Jewish national home unless allowed by the rulers. The links are the mandate of palestine and the minutes of the LoN annual meetings. Now be a good boy and read them to see just how brainless you are presenting yourself.



BY THE WAY WE ARE ALL STILL WAITING FOR YOUR LINKS TO THE NATION OF PALESTINE ExISTING SOMETIME IN 1923 ?

You have been reading those document through Israeli colored glasses.

They don't say what you think.

Your reply when you are being shown as a halfwit and are proven wrong yet again.


Then what do they say and produce the links from an unbiased source like the UN archives or Yale to prove your claims.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

And this very point to the contrary is a big source of contention concerning the "right of self-determination;" with its origins dating back to The Peace of Westphalia 1648.

In the mix of how "Self-Determination" relates to "Sovereignty," we have to understand what we are talking about in theory and in time.

Encyclopedia Princetoniensis, [/I]Princeston University]
Introduction / Definition:
Self-determination has two aspects, internal and external. Internal self-determination is the right of the people of a state to govern themselves without outside interference. External self-determination is the right of peoples to determine their own political status and to be free of alien domination, including formation of their own independent state. However, independence is not the only possible outcome of an exercise of self-determination.

In international law, the right of self-determination that became recognized in the 1960s was interpreted as the right of all colonial territories to become independent or to adopt any other status they freely chose.
SOURCE: Princeton Encyclopedia of Self-Determination

We have to understand that: In international law, the right of self-determination that became recognized in the 1960s.

The nature of the conflict is bound in two conceptual theories, one expanding the other:

• ARTICLE 3 Montevideo Convention 1933

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law. International Conference of American States in Montevideo,
​

• Article 1 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

i) All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of the right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. General Assembly resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966
​

•∆• In 1967, when Israel re-entered the West Bank in pursuit of Jordanian Armed Force, the West Bank was Sovereign Jordanian Territory.

The link you posted said that the West Bank was occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967. The world rejected that annexation. Again you base your conclusion on false premise.

(COMMENT)

Is it possible for the international community to deny the People of Palestine the "right to self-determination?" If the concept that the "Jericho Conference" led by Sheikh Muhammad Ali Ja'abari, and held with Pro-Jordanian personalities which called for the annexation of the West Bank, to Jordan, is invalid because the International Community said so, then is the "right to self-determination" discretionary and in the hands of external powers? In a CONFIDENTIAL cable (declassified) the Department of State made note of the "Jericho Conference," (Page 1645-1646 Foreign relations of the United States) and the reported (among other things) that:

JERICHO CONFERENCE
AN ARAB PALESTINIAN DECISION

1. Palestine Arabs desire unity between Transjordan and Arab Palestine and therefore make known their wish that Arab Palestine be annexed immediately to Transjordan. They also recognize Abdullah as their King and request him proclaim himself King of new territory.
2. Palestine Arabs express gratitude to Arab states for their efforts in behalf of liberation of Palestine (The delegates indicated the object of this was hint to Arab states that their job was done).
3. Expression of thanks to Arab states for their generous assistance and support to Palestine Arab refugees.
4. Resolve that purport of first resolution be conveyed to King at once.
​

Of course, nothing happens in the international political arena that does not have its challengers. This is no exception. The Arab League (less Jordan) condemned the Jericho Conference, and the Syrian press considered its resolution a violation of self-determination. The Syrian media concluded that it "self-determination excluded the possibility of an annexation. The resolutions of the "Jericho Conference" was reaffirmed by the Jordanian Parliament when:

In April Jordan held an election for a new parliament to represent both banks of the Jordan. It met on the 24th to hear a speech from Abdullah and pass a resolution affirming support for ‘complete unity between the two sides of the Jordan and their union into one state’ and formally incorporating the West Bank into the Hashemite Kingdom of the Jordan. History Today

The only way that the "right of self-determination" can be overturned under the 20th Century political concept, is IF the "right of self-determination" IS NOT an "inherent" (as a permanent and inseparable element, individual political characteristic and quality) right.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

And this very point to the contrary is a big source of contention concerning the "right of self-determination;" with its origins dating back to The Peace of Westphalia 1648.

In the mix of how "Self-Determination" relates to "Sovereignty," we have to understand what we are talking about in theory and in time.

Encyclopedia Princetoniensis, [/I]Princeston University]
Introduction / Definition:
Self-determination has two aspects, internal and external. Internal self-determination is the right of the people of a state to govern themselves without outside interference. External self-determination is the right of peoples to determine their own political status and to be free of alien domination, including formation of their own independent state. However, independence is not the only possible outcome of an exercise of self-determination.

In international law, the right of self-determination that became recognized in the 1960s was interpreted as the right of all colonial territories to become independent or to adopt any other status they freely chose.
SOURCE: Princeton Encyclopedia of Self-Determination

We have to understand that: In international law, the right of self-determination that became recognized in the 1960s.

The nature of the conflict is bound in two conceptual theories, one expanding the other:

• ARTICLE 3 Montevideo Convention 1933

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law. International Conference of American States in Montevideo,
​

• Article 1 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

i) All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of the right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. General Assembly resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966
​

•∆• In 1967, when Israel re-entered the West Bank in pursuit of Jordanian Armed Force, the West Bank was Sovereign Jordanian Territory.

The link you posted said that the West Bank was occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967. The world rejected that annexation. Again you base your conclusion on false premise.

(COMMENT)

Is it possible for the international community to deny the People of Palestine the "right to self-determination?" If the concept that the "Jericho Conference" led by Sheikh Muhammad Ali Ja'abari, and held with Pro-Jordanian personalities which called for the annexation of the West Bank, to Jordan, is invalid because the International Community said so, then is the "right to self-determination" discretionary and in the hands of external powers? In a CONFIDENTIAL cable (declassified) the Department of State made note of the "Jericho Conference," (Page 1645-1646 Foreign relations of the United States) and the reported (among other things) that:

JERICHO CONFERENCE
AN ARAB PALESTINIAN DECISION

1. Palestine Arabs desire unity between Transjordan and Arab Palestine and therefore make known their wish that Arab Palestine be annexed immediately to Transjordan. They also recognize Abdullah as their King and request him proclaim himself King of new territory.
2. Palestine Arabs express gratitude to Arab states for their efforts in behalf of liberation of Palestine (The delegates indicated the object of this was hint to Arab states that their job was done).
3. Expression of thanks to Arab states for their generous assistance and support to Palestine Arab refugees.
4. Resolve that purport of first resolution be conveyed to King at once.
​

Of course, nothing happens in the international political arena that does not have its challengers. This is no exception. The Arab League (less Jordan) condemned the Jericho Conference, and the Syrian press considered its resolution a violation of self-determination. The Syrian media concluded that it "self-determination excluded the possibility of an annexation. The resolutions of the "Jericho Conference" was reaffirmed by the Jordanian Parliament when:

In April Jordan held an election for a new parliament to represent both banks of the Jordan. It met on the 24th to hear a speech from Abdullah and pass a resolution affirming support for ‘complete unity between the two sides of the Jordan and their union into one state’ and formally incorporating the West Bank into the Hashemite Kingdom of the Jordan. History Today

The only way that the "right of self-determination" can be overturned under the 20th Century political concept, is IF the "right of self-determination" IS NOT an "inherent" (as a permanent and inseparable element, individual political characteristic and quality) right.

Most Respectfully,
R

• ARTICLE 3 Montevideo Convention 1933

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.​

Indeed.

CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948
FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY​

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

• #5) While this is a theme "all of Palestine is occupied" (meaning the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine - West of the Jordan River), this is based more on folklore and wild interpretations of decisions made more than half a century ago. This is a second tier (imaginary) reality (fooling yourself), on which the HoAP Jihad is based. But the actual reality is that the GOI and its sovereignty which is marked by an enforced physical barrier (non-Imaginary non-Fictional).

The enforcement of psychical barriers could also define an occupying power.

BTW, Mandates were administrators. They did not have any land or borders of their own.

(COMMENT)

Our friend "Hollie" is absolutely correct.

When you arrive at PHYSICAL boundary in which sovereignty changes, that is the most "direct evidence" that is possible.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

• #5) While this is a theme "all of Palestine is occupied" (meaning the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine - West of the Jordan River), this is based more on folklore and wild interpretations of decisions made more than half a century ago. This is a second tier (imaginary) reality (fooling yourself), on which the HoAP Jihad is based. But the actual reality is that the GOI and its sovereignty which is marked by an enforced physical barrier (non-Imaginary non-Fictional).

The enforcement of psychical barriers could also define an occupying power.

BTW, Mandates were administrators. They did not have any land or borders of their own.

(COMMENT)

Our friend "Hollie" is absolutely correct.

When you arrive at PHYSICAL boundary in which sovereignty changes, that is the most "direct evidence" that is possible.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, it could be either way.

Do you have any proof that either is correct?

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

And this very point to the contrary is a big source of contention concerning the "right of self-determination;" with its origins dating back to The Peace of Westphalia 1648.

In the mix of how "Self-Determination" relates to "Sovereignty," we have to understand what we are talking about in theory and in time.

Encyclopedia Princetoniensis, [/I]Princeston University]
Introduction / Definition:
Self-determination has two aspects, internal and external. Internal self-determination is the right of the people of a state to govern themselves without outside interference. External self-determination is the right of peoples to determine their own political status and to be free of alien domination, including formation of their own independent state. However, independence is not the only possible outcome of an exercise of self-determination.

In international law, the right of self-determination that became recognized in the 1960s was interpreted as the right of all colonial territories to become independent or to adopt any other status they freely chose.
SOURCE: Princeton Encyclopedia of Self-Determination

We have to understand that: In international law, the right of self-determination that became recognized in the 1960s.

The nature of the conflict is bound in two conceptual theories, one expanding the other:

• ARTICLE 3 Montevideo Convention 1933

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.

The exercise of these rights has no other limitation than the exercise of the rights of other states according to international law. International Conference of American States in Montevideo,
​

• Article 1 International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights

i) All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of the right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. General Assembly resolution 2200A (XXI) of 16 December 1966
​

•∆• In 1967, when Israel re-entered the West Bank in pursuit of Jordanian Armed Force, the West Bank was Sovereign Jordanian Territory.

The link you posted said that the West Bank was occupied by Jordan from 1948 to 1967. The world rejected that annexation. Again you base your conclusion on false premise.

(COMMENT)

Is it possible for the international community to deny the People of Palestine the "right to self-determination?" If the concept that the "Jericho Conference" led by Sheikh Muhammad Ali Ja'abari, and held with Pro-Jordanian personalities which called for the annexation of the West Bank, to Jordan, is invalid because the International Community said so, then is the "right to self-determination" discretionary and in the hands of external powers? In a CONFIDENTIAL cable (declassified) the Department of State made note of the "Jericho Conference," (Page 1645-1646 Foreign relations of the United States) and the reported (among other things) that:

JERICHO CONFERENCE
AN ARAB PALESTINIAN DECISION

1. Palestine Arabs desire unity between Transjordan and Arab Palestine and therefore make known their wish that Arab Palestine be annexed immediately to Transjordan. They also recognize Abdullah as their King and request him proclaim himself King of new territory.
2. Palestine Arabs express gratitude to Arab states for their efforts in behalf of liberation of Palestine (The delegates indicated the object of this was hint to Arab states that their job was done).
3. Expression of thanks to Arab states for their generous assistance and support to Palestine Arab refugees.
4. Resolve that purport of first resolution be conveyed to King at once.
​

Of course, nothing happens in the international political arena that does not have its challengers. This is no exception. The Arab League (less Jordan) condemned the Jericho Conference, and the Syrian press considered its resolution a violation of self-determination. The Syrian media concluded that it "self-determination excluded the possibility of an annexation. The resolutions of the "Jericho Conference" was reaffirmed by the Jordanian Parliament when:

In April Jordan held an election for a new parliament to represent both banks of the Jordan. It met on the 24th to hear a speech from Abdullah and pass a resolution affirming support for ‘complete unity between the two sides of the Jordan and their union into one state’ and formally incorporating the West Bank into the Hashemite Kingdom of the Jordan. History Today

The only way that the "right of self-determination" can be overturned under the 20th Century political concept, is IF the "right of self-determination" IS NOT an "inherent" (as a permanent and inseparable element, individual political characteristic and quality) right.

Most Respectfully,
R

• ARTICLE 3 Montevideo Convention 1933

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.​

Indeed.

CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948
FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY​

And because the arab muslims refused to have anything to do with the LOn mandate of palestine this was void and ignored. Why do you never post the reply setting out the reasons for refusing the demands of the arab muslims that did not even squat in the mandate of palestine.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

• #5) While this is a theme "all of Palestine is occupied" (meaning the territory formerly under the Mandate for Palestine - West of the Jordan River), this is based more on folklore and wild interpretations of decisions made more than half a century ago. This is a second tier (imaginary) reality (fooling yourself), on which the HoAP Jihad is based. But the actual reality is that the GOI and its sovereignty which is marked by an enforced physical barrier (non-Imaginary non-Fictional).

The enforcement of psychical barriers could also define an occupying power.

BTW, Mandates were administrators. They did not have any land or borders of their own.

(COMMENT)

Our friend "Hollie" is absolutely correct.

When you arrive at PHYSICAL boundary in which sovereignty changes, that is the most "direct evidence" that is possible.

Most Respectfully,
R

Indeed, it could be either way.

Do you have any proof that either is correct?

More to the point do you have any proof it doesnt, and links from an unbiased source please

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Funny you should mention that.

• ARTICLE 3 Montevideo Convention 1933

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.[​

​

Indeed.

CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948
FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY​

(COMMENT)

I tend to think that the "All Palestine Government" had not demonstrative following and was not supported by the leading Arab States. I think that King Abdullah states it best.

​

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Funny you should mention that.

• ARTICLE 3 Montevideo Convention 1933

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.[​

​

Indeed.

CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948
FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY​

(COMMENT)

I tend to think that the "All Palestine Government" had not demonstrative following and was not supported by the leading Arab States. I think that King Abdullah states it best.

​

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine was recognized by five other states. But, as Montevideo said, recognition is not necessary.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, now you're close.

Palestine was recognized by five other states. But, as Montevideo said, recognition is not necessary.

(COMMENT)

The community will allow the entity to exist in name, but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored, and many time denied an opportunity to participate on the Question of Palestine.

Eventually, the Egyptian Government dissolved the All-Palestine Government (APG). It never was able to get off the ground.

I noticed that the APG sent several times complained that they were not invited to key meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, now you're close.

Palestine was recognized by five other states. But, as Montevideo said, recognition is not necessary.

(COMMENT)

The community will allow the entity to exist in name, but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored, and many time denied an opportunity to participate on the Question of Palestine.

Eventually, the Egyptian Government dissolved the All-Palestine Government (APG). It never was able to get off the ground.

I noticed that the APG sent several times complained that they were not invited to key meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored,​

Probably because they were occupied. A country does not cease to exist just because it is occupied.

 

[docmauser1]

How is their "parade" relevant to the air-force's response to Gaza's crimes yesterday?

What crimes, the make believe ones. Every new defense minister needs to struck his stuff, and well its the 2 year anniversary, we can't let those who live in Gaza think Israel has turned soft.

Firing rockets across the border is a war crime and it is time the UN took action.

Well israel should stop firing rockets across the border then

Well, arab propagandists should stop smoking hashish.

 

[Slyhunter]

They should fight it out like men. Whoever is left alive gets the land.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Funny you should mention that.

• ARTICLE 3 Montevideo Convention 1933

The political existence of the state is independent of recognition by the other states. Even before recognition the state has the right to defend its integrity and independence, to provide for its conservation and prosperity, and consequently to organize itself as it sees fit, to legislate upon its interests, administer its services, and to define the jurisdiction and competence of its courts.[​

​

Indeed.

CABLEGRAM DATED 28 SEPTEMBER 1948
FROM THE PREMIER AND
ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT
TO THE SECRETARY-GENERAL CONCERNING
CONSTITUTION OF ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT

I HAVE THE HONOR TO INFORM YOUR EXCELLENCY THAT IN VIRTUE OF THE NATURAL RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE FOR SELF-DETERMINATION WHICH PRINCIPLE IS SUPPORTED BY THE CHARTERS OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, THE UNITED NATIONS AND OTHERS AND IN VIEW OF THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE OVER PALESTINE WHICH HAD PREVENTED THE ARABS FROM EXERCISING THEIR INDEPENDENCE, THE ARABS OF PALESTINE WHO ARE THE OWNERS OF THE COUNTRY AND ITS INDIGENOUS INHABITANTS AND WHO CONSTITUTE THE GREAT MAJORITY OF ITS LEGAL POPULATION HAVE SOLEMNLY RESOLVED TO DECLARE PALESTINE IN ITS ENTIRETY AND WITHIN ITS BOUNDARIES AS ESTABLISHED BEFORE THE TERMINATION OF THE BRITISH MANDATE AN INDEPENDENT STATE AND CONSTITUTED A GOVERNMENT UNDER THE NAME OF THE ALL-PALESTINE GOVERNMENT DERIVING ITS AUTHORITY FROM A REPRESENTATIVE COUNCIL BASED ON DEMOCRATIC PRINCIPLES AND AIMING TO SAFEGUARD THE RIGHTS OF MINORITIES AND FOREIGNERS PROTECT THE HOLY PLACES AND GUARANTEE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP TO ALL COMMUNITIES

AHMED HILMI PASHA
PREMIER AND ACTING FOREIGN SECRETARY​

(COMMENT)

I tend to think that the "All Palestine Government" had not demonstrative following and was not supported by the leading Arab States. I think that King Abdullah states it best.

​

Most Respectfully,
R

Palestine was recognized by five other states. But, as Montevideo said, recognition is not necessary.

So making Israel the valid nation and the aran muslim one false and illegal. Read your own criteria again and see that Israel came first giving them the greater claim

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, now you're close.

Palestine was recognized by five other states. But, as Montevideo said, recognition is not necessary.

(COMMENT)

The community will allow the entity to exist in name, but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored, and many time denied an opportunity to participate on the Question of Palestine.

Eventually, the Egyptian Government dissolved the All-Palestine Government (APG). It never was able to get off the ground.

I noticed that the APG sent several times complained that they were not invited to key meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored,​

Probably because they were occupied. A country does not cease to exist just because it is occupied.

But it wasnt a country as the land was already claimed by another nation under existing international laws. The APG tried to ignore those laws because they worked for the Jews and failed. Could I claim your property was mine in the same way the APG did with Israel ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, now you're close.

Palestine was recognized by five other states. But, as Montevideo said, recognition is not necessary.

(COMMENT)

The community will allow the entity to exist in name, but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored, and many time denied an opportunity to participate on the Question of Palestine.

Eventually, the Egyptian Government dissolved the All-Palestine Government (APG). It never was able to get off the ground.

I noticed that the APG sent several times complained that they were not invited to key meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored,​

Probably because they were occupied. A country does not cease to exist just because it is occupied.

But it wasnt a country as the land was already claimed by another nation under existing international laws. The APG tried to ignore those laws because they worked for the Jews and failed. Could I claim your property was mine in the same way the APG did with Israel ?

The Palestinians claimed independence in Palestine.

Foreigners claimed Israel's independence in Palestine. The land was not up for grabs. Even Rocco said that the land was not up for grabs. And, even the UN said that the land was Palestine in 1949 after the Palestinian's declaration.

 

[Phoenall]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, now you're close.

Palestine was recognized by five other states. But, as Montevideo said, recognition is not necessary.

(COMMENT)

The community will allow the entity to exist in name, but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored, and many time denied an opportunity to participate on the Question of Palestine.

Eventually, the Egyptian Government dissolved the All-Palestine Government (APG). It never was able to get off the ground.

I noticed that the APG sent several times complained that they were not invited to key meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored,​

Probably because they were occupied. A country does not cease to exist just because it is occupied.

But it wasnt a country as the land was already claimed by another nation under existing international laws. The APG tried to ignore those laws because they worked for the Jews and failed. Could I claim your property was mine in the same way the APG did with Israel ?

The Palestinians claimed independence in Palestine.

Foreigners claimed Israel's independence in Palestine. The land was not up for grabs. Even Rocco said that the land was not up for grabs. And, even the UN said that the land was Palestine in 1949 after the Palestinian's declaration.

The APG were foreingers from the arab league and had refused the UN resolution.The Jews had accepted UN resolution 181 and had already declared independence 6 month prior to the arab league attempt at stealing Jewish land. The land was not up for grabs as it had already been grabbed by the Jews under existing International laws. The used the term as the LoN used it, a truncated version of the MANDATE OF PALESTINE as you have been shown thousands of times in the past. Why is it when you dont like the truth you try to ignore it exists and keep asking for the same links to prove you wrong.




Again could I claim your property as mine in the same way the APG tried to claim Israel in 1948 ? And the Un followed tradition in 1945 to the present day by calling it palestine as a short version of MANDATE OF PALESTINE as detailed in UN resolutions.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, now you're close.

Palestine was recognized by five other states. But, as Montevideo said, recognition is not necessary.

(COMMENT)

The community will allow the entity to exist in name, but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored, and many time denied an opportunity to participate on the Question of Palestine.

Eventually, the Egyptian Government dissolved the All-Palestine Government (APG). It never was able to get off the ground.

I noticed that the APG sent several times complained that they were not invited to key meetings.

Most Respectfully,
R

but you will notice that the All-Palestine Government was ignored,​

Probably because they were occupied. A country does not cease to exist just because it is occupied.

But it wasnt a country as the land was already claimed by another nation under existing international laws. The APG tried to ignore those laws because they worked for the Jews and failed. Could I claim your property was mine in the same way the APG did with Israel ?

The Palestinians claimed independence in Palestine.

Foreigners claimed Israel's independence in Palestine. The land was not up for grabs. Even Rocco said that the land was not up for grabs. And, even the UN said that the land was Palestine in 1949 after the Palestinian's declaration.

The APG were foreingers from the arab league and had refused the UN resolution.The Jews had accepted UN resolution 181 and had already declared independence 6 month prior to the arab league attempt at stealing Jewish land. The land was not up for grabs as it had already been grabbed by the Jews under existing International laws. The used the term as the LoN used it, a truncated version of the MANDATE OF PALESTINE as you have been shown thousands of times in the past. Why is it when you dont like the truth you try to ignore it exists and keep asking for the same links to prove you wrong.




Again could I claim your property as mine in the same way the APG tried to claim Israel in 1948 ? And the Un followed tradition in 1945 to the present day by calling it palestine as a short version of MANDATE OF PALESTINE as detailed in UN resolutions.

The land was not up for grabs as it had already been grabbed by the Jews under existing International laws.