CDZ ISIS to torture US troops for information

[Indofred]

If ISIS capture an American soldier, would it be acceptable for them to use torture to gain information?

It is not "acceptable" for ISIS to capture an American soldier in the first place. We are (or should be) at war with them.

America has started many wars that were little or nothing to do with it, but always moans when its troops are captured, injured or killed.
You can't swim without getting wet.
If you war against ISIS, you expect casualties, and perhaps attacks against your home country.
However, this is really a thread about torture, so better to stay on topic.

 

[Indofred]

New stuff.
Bush was aware, therefore directly responsible, so should be arrested immediately and face a war crimes trial.
BBC News - President George W Bush knew everything about CIA interrogation

In the interview on Thursday, Mr Cheney said the report was "deeply flawed" and a "terrible piece of work", although he admitted he had not read the whole document.

President Bush "knew everything he needed to know, and wanted to know" about CIA interrogation, he said. "He knew the techniques... there was no effort on my part to keep it from him.

"He was fully informed."

What country did he commit a crime against?

People, not a country.

 

[Indofred]

If ISIS capture an American soldier, would it be acceptable for them to use torture to gain information?

Is ISIS bound by the Geneva convention.

The question you ask may be the most naive I've ever read, so here's one back atcha.

Do you think ISIS cares what we think?

Is the US of A bound by the Geneva convention? It would seem, not.

Reciprocity...

Quid pro quo...

It's a bitch...

Given America used torture before ISIS existed, perhaps you may have started the ball rolling.
Just a thought.

Hardly.

ISIS is merely the latest itch or rash that the disease known as 'Militant Islam' has erupted, like an angry boil.

Muslims have been employing the torture and beheading tactics currently used by ISIS, since the early days of its 'parent' cancer, Islam.

More than a thousand years before the settlement (much less independence) of America.

Not even a 'nice try', this time.

A boil is essentially an infection, and something must start that infection.
Since there was no major conflict between Islam and the west before America started to interfere in the middle east, one assumes America is the infection.

Apart from the Barbary pirates, clearly a criminal state sponsored group, not terrorists, can you name a single political attack on America or Americans that wasn't a direct result of American interference in any given country?

Propaganda tells us how the US is the guardian of this, that and the other, totally ignoring that country's atrocious record in every aspect of bad behaviour, including use of torture.
The US executed Japanese soldiers for doing the same as you've just admitted to doing.
Perhaps you can explain why Japanese soldiers were executed for the crime of torture by water boarding, but torture by water boarding is acceptable in the war against terror.
Then we can move on to making prisoners stand up on broken legs, and why that's acceptable.
Given the commander in chief of the time was aware of the CIA's activities, and did nothing to stop it, perhaps someone could explain why Bush shouldn't be arrested.

 

[Kondor3]

...A boil is essentially an infection, and something must start that infection...

Indeed. It was Muhammed (Peanut butter and jelly Be Upon Him).

...Since there was no major conflict between Islam and the west before America started to interfere in the middle east, one assumes America is the infection...

Or, alternatively, America started interfering in the Middle East in the 1950s, to prevent Islamists from getting the upper hand, and, prior to that time, Islam was as weak as a kitten, under the Imperial heel of the European colonial powers (the UK, France, et al), so... being weak as a kitten... and under the heel of others... there was little trouble back then.

...Apart from the Barbary pirates, clearly a criminal state sponsored group, not terrorists, can you name a single political attack on America or Americans that wasn't a direct result of American interference in any given country?...

There has never been a (primarily) political attack upon America in the past, so, of course, I have nothing to compare it with.

...Propaganda tells us how the US is the guardian of this, that and the other, totally ignoring that country's atrocious record in every aspect of bad behaviour, including use of torture...

It's not propaganda. The US has, indeed, stood guard against a number of threats to The West and its (and our) interests, in the 1945-1991 timeframe and beyond.

And you're right... we've become hard-asses and rather arbitrary... an occupational hazard when you're pulling guard duty 24 x 7 x 365 on half the world for a half-century or more without a helluva lot of help from the rest of that half of the world. Still, it bought Europe, Japan, etc., the time to rebuild, and to grow strong again.

As to using 'torture' - that's a relatively new one for us, on a large or broad scale - and I make no excuses for it - but I understand how it happened - Institutional Paranoia brought about by the death of 3,000 of our countrymen and destruction and mayhem loosed upon New York City and Washington DC.

We'd rather abuse a few hundred Muslims on the chance of obtaining useful intelligence data than to sit still waiting for another 9-11.

It didn't work out that way - and it was wrong - but I understand how it happened.

The US is also one of the few countries that will 'fess-up to such wrongdoing and publicize its findings and work to fix the faults and ensure it doesn't happen again.

...The US executed Japanese soldiers for doing the same as you've just admitted to doing...

Yep. I guess so. The difference? They lost. We won.

And we were looking for any excuse to hang the bastards anyway.

Torture was just the most convenient excuse for hanging them at the time.

If it wasn't Torture, it would probably have been Jaywalking.

...Perhaps you can explain why Japanese soldiers were executed for the crime of torture by water boarding, but torture by water boarding is acceptable in the war against terror...

I can't. I won't even begin to try. Our people did a wrong thing. The two examples of torture have too many differences between them, to do the comparison justice.

...Then we can move on to making prisoners stand up on broken legs, and why that's acceptable...

Torture is torture. The rest is just a matter of degree and flavor and variations on the theme. It was wrong.

...Given the commander in chief of the time was aware of the CIA's activities, and did nothing to stop it, perhaps someone could explain why Bush shouldn't be arrested.

Arrested by whom?

On what charge(s)?

To be tried by whom?

 

[Pop23]

New stuff.
Bush was aware, therefore directly responsible, so should be arrested immediately and face a war crimes trial.
BBC News - President George W Bush knew everything about CIA interrogation

In the interview on Thursday, Mr Cheney said the report was "deeply flawed" and a "terrible piece of work", although he admitted he had not read the whole document.

President Bush "knew everything he needed to know, and wanted to know" about CIA interrogation, he said. "He knew the techniques... there was no effort on my part to keep it from him.

"He was fully informed."

What country did he commit a crime against?

People, not a country.

Did the "people" sign onto the Geneva convention?

 

[ScienceRocks]

They can torture anytime they wish, but we can't do simple harmless forms to save our own ass.

Doesn't seem fair.

 

[Darkwind]

“The point being, you can't claim one side is evil, thus torture is acceptable, whilst claiming you're the good guys, so torture against your people is not acceptable.”

Then your point is moot unless you can cite an objective, documented, and official American source declaring torture to be a sanctioned component of US interrogation policy, and that torture is currently being conducted by American intelligence officials, or those contracted to do so.

You are wrong, as per your M.O.

The point is, regardless whether or not we interrogate prisoners (There has been no torture on our part), the good folk of ISIS will torture our people. They won't snivel about it. There will be no navel gazing or introspection on morality. Nothing we do or don't do will alter who and what they are.

Therefore, we should not give what they think, and what they may or may not do, any weight at all in our own actions.

 

[boedicca]

I doubt that ISIS will issue their own torture report in the future.

 

[Zoom-boing]

ISIS would torture whether they wanted to gain information or not. ISIS doesn't give a shit about what we want. ISIS needs to be wiped off the face of the earth.

 

[Spare_change]

I have no problem torturing the enemy isis terrorists for information , not for fun . I also say that the USA should take no prisoners of isis terrorists , no med aid for them either .

but yeah [as answer to the question] ,it is unacceptable to torture USA soldiers . Course for isis there are no rules even if they had signed some silly Geneva convention .

And, as usual, you're in favor of throwing out the Constitution AND the Geneva Convention.

How did radical RWs get to be so damn dumb and so utterly un-American?

If either the Constitution or the Geneva Convention were even remotely applicable, I'd be concerned.

They're not, so I ain't.

 

[Spare_change]

If ISIS capture an American soldier, would it be acceptable for them to use torture to gain information?

It is not "acceptable" for ISIS to capture an American soldier in the first place. We are (or should be) at war with them.

America has started many wars that were little or nothing to do with it, but always moans when its troops are captured, injured or killed.
You can't swim without getting wet.
If you war against ISIS, you expect casualties, and perhaps attacks against your home country.
However, this is really a thread about torture, so better to stay on topic.

Cheap rhetoric ... with no basis in fact.

Disregarded.

 

[Indofred]

Cheap rhetoric ... with no basis in fact.

Disregarded.

The lady in the picture was a Taliban prisoner.
The rest is historical fact, even though you don't like it.

 

[Indofred]

New stuff.
Bush was aware, therefore directly responsible, so should be arrested immediately and face a war crimes trial.
BBC News - President George W Bush knew everything about CIA interrogation

In the interview on Thursday, Mr Cheney said the report was "deeply flawed" and a "terrible piece of work", although he admitted he had not read the whole document.

President Bush "knew everything he needed to know, and wanted to know" about CIA interrogation, he said. "He knew the techniques... there was no effort on my part to keep it from him.

"He was fully informed."

What country did he commit a crime against?

People, not a country.

Did the "people" sign onto the Geneva convention?

Did your government break it?

 

[Indofred]

Indeed. It was Muhammed (Peanut butter and jelly Be Upon Him).

In the clean debate zone, I refrain from suggesting I'd like to shit on the stars and stripes.
Would you be good enough to refrain from similar insults, please?

 

[Spare_change]

Is ISIS bound by the Geneva convention.

The question you ask may be the most naive I've ever read, so here's one back atcha.

Do you think ISIS cares what we think?

Is the US of A bound by the Geneva convention? It would seem, not.

Reciprocity...

Quid pro quo...

It's a bitch...

Given America used torture before ISIS existed, perhaps you may have started the ball rolling.
Just a thought.

Hardly.

ISIS is merely the latest itch or rash that the disease known as 'Militant Islam' has erupted, like an angry boil.

Muslims have been employing the torture and beheading tactics currently used by ISIS, since the early days of its 'parent' cancer, Islam.

More than a thousand years before the settlement (much less independence) of America.

Not even a 'nice try', this time.

A boil is essentially an infection, and something must start that infection.
Since there was no major conflict between Islam and the west before America started to interfere in the middle east, one assumes America is the infection.

Apart from the Barbary pirates, clearly a criminal state sponsored group, not terrorists, can you name a single political attack on America or Americans that wasn't a direct result of American interference in any given country?

Propaganda tells us how the US is the guardian of this, that and the other, totally ignoring that country's atrocious record in every aspect of bad behaviour, including use of torture.
The US executed Japanese soldiers for doing the same as you've just admitted to doing.
Perhaps you can explain why Japanese soldiers were executed for the crime of torture by water boarding, but torture by water boarding is acceptable in the war against terror.
Then we can move on to making prisoners stand up on broken legs, and why that's acceptable.
Given the commander in chief of the time was aware of the CIA's activities, and did nothing to stop it, perhaps someone could explain why Bush shouldn't be arrested.

Nice opinion piece ... if you like lies and misrepresentations.

" ... no major conflict between Islam and the west... " You conveniently forget:

1979
Nov. 4, Tehran, Iran: Iranian radical students seized the U.S. embassy, taking 66 hostages. 14 were later released. The remaining 52 were freed after 444 days on the day of President Reagan's inauguration.
1982–1991
Lebanon: Thirty US and other Western hostages kidnapped in Lebanon by Hezbollah. Some were killed, some died in captivity, and some were eventually released. Terry Anderson was held for 2,454 days.
1983
April 18, Beirut, Lebanon: U.S. embassy destroyed in suicide car-bomb attack; 63 dead, including 17 Americans. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Oct. 23, Beirut, Lebanon: Shiite suicide bombers exploded truck near U.S. military barracks at Beirut airport, killing 241 marines. Minutes later a second bomb killed 58 French paratroopers in their barracks in West Beirut.
Dec. 12, Kuwait City, Kuwait: Shiite truck bombers attacked the U.S. embassy and other targets, killing 5 and injuring 80.
1984
Sept. 20, east Beirut, Lebanon: truck bomb exploded outside the U.S. embassy annex, killing 24, including 2 U.S. military.
Dec. 3, Beirut, Lebanon: Kuwait Airways Flight 221, from Kuwait to Pakistan, hijacked and diverted to Tehran. 2 Americans killed.
1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.
1986
April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9.
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.
1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.
1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.
1995
April 19, Oklahoma City: car bomb exploded outside federal office building, collapsing wall and floors. 168 people were killed, including 19 children and 1 person who died in rescue effort. Over 220 buildings sustained damage. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols later convicted in the antigovernment plot to avenge the Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, Tex., exactly 2 years earlier. (See Miscellaneous Disasters.)
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.
1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.
1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.
2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.
2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.)
Read more: Terrorist Attacks in the U.S. or Against Americans | Infoplease.com Terrorist Attacks in the U.S. or Against Americans Infoplease.com

"The US executed Japanese soldiers for doing the same as you've just admitted to doing" - Again, you fail to note that the soldiers were executed because of war crimes, up to and including cannibalism. To try to equate cannibalism to waterboarding is, simply, intellectually dishonest and morally reprehensible. However, you might want to make note of the fact that the Japanese executed their own soldiers post-war because of torture. Waterboarding wasn't, and shouldn't be considered 'torture' .... and does not fit the definition of torture detailed in the Geneva Convention.

As for claims of 'torture', I'm sure that most AF pilots, who have gone thru escape and evasion courses, will tell you that these acts are so horrendous, so bestial, so bad, that we use them on our own people as training!!! Frankly, the report issued was a political hit piece by Democrats.

 

[Kondor3]

Indeed. It was Muhammed (Peanut butter and jelly Be Upon Him).

In the clean debate zone, I refrain from suggesting I'd like to shit on the stars and stripes.
Would you be good enough to refrain from similar insults, please?

I didn't suggest that I'd like to shit on Muhammed... just poking fun at the mindless rote mantra you folks are so heavily vested in.

 

[The Irish Ram]

If you had a choice fred, would you rather have a bad day at the hands of the Americans or your head sawed off with a paring knife by Muslims? Here is an idea, stop declaring war on the United States. We tend to respond to that shit.

 

[Pop23]

New stuff.
Bush was aware, therefore directly responsible, so should be arrested immediately and face a war crimes trial.
BBC News - President George W Bush knew everything about CIA interrogation

In the interview on Thursday, Mr Cheney said the report was "deeply flawed" and a "terrible piece of work", although he admitted he had not read the whole document.

President Bush "knew everything he needed to know, and wanted to know" about CIA interrogation, he said. "He knew the techniques... there was no effort on my part to keep it from him.

"He was fully informed."

What country did he commit a crime against?

People, not a country.

Did the "people" sign onto the Geneva convention?

Did your government break it?

An agreement involves two parties.

But you knew that, right?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, ISIS will torture our troops.

What is new about this?

 

[Staidhup]

Oh! a thread concerning the treatment of US servicemen at the hands of Isis. Judging upon past conduct ,Isis will just execute them.