Zone1 Is Your Body a Temple or a Graveyard?

[surada]

That was excellent.

He touches on a very important point, and one that is rarely brought up in these types of discussions.

What I'm talking about is our (as Christians) witness to the world and unbelievers.

Here's what people like Woodnutz, Surada, Sue, and others are missing. The world is watching us (Christians.) There are many people in this world who deeply care about animals and I know for a fact that MANY secular vegans or vegetarians (tragically) have the wrong idea about our God and are turned off to Christianity... NOT based on the actual truth, but on what they see from professed Christians, I'm talking about Christians' callous disregard for animals, and how Christians are often the ones fighting the hardest to maintain the violent status quo of this fallen world, when it comes to flesh eating.

So here's the important part that is getting missed. Christians turning people away from God because of callousness and utter disregard for God's beloved animals is something the scriptures specifically warned against, because it impedes and misleads people.

Paul talked about food being less important than love, and our witness to an unbelieving world.

"Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died."
(Romans 14:15)

Also: "If food makes my brother stumble, I will never again eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble." (1 Corinthians 8:13)

It doesn't matter if that is in regard to eating food that was sacrificed to idols, or showing a total disregard for God's precious animals, this principle is the same: when we callously put our own desires above our witness to others, we are no longer walking in love... and in many cases, causing others to be turned off to Christianity, which is the exact opposite of what we're supposed to be doing.

The GOOD news is that the new documentary, Christspiracy, is actually bringing many non-Christians TO God, because it uncovers some amazing important truths that people with an agenda have tried to suppress for 2000 years, and it shows Jesus as He actually is - MERCIFUL, compassionate, and someone who cares about not just humans but animals as well, and showed selfless love for them too (people need to watch that film, I don't want to give it away.) Which goes along with the CCC motto that the Gospel is actually good news for ALL creation, not just humans. That is why ALL of creation is "groaning" and waiting for this wicked age to be over.

Here's a short clip from a Friday Night Live talk that I think is also worth watching:

Jews couldn't slaughter animals except in the temple. They cooked and ate their sacrifices.

 

[braalian]

Trying to convert people to a vegan lifestyle is just a waste of time

 

[surada]

Trying to convert people to a vegan lifestyle is just a waste of time

Using Christianity to do it is pretty low.

 

[buttercup]

Americans aren't the only Christians in the world... The world is watching Trump and he's not a Christian.

Where did I ever say or even imply otherwise? Of course there are Christians all over the world.

And what does Trump have to do with the price of rice in China?

 

[buttercup]

Jews couldn't slaughter animals except in the temple. They cooked and ate their sacrifices.

Again, we were talking about an entirely different topic in the post you replied to. You seem to be fixated on Jewish people and animal slaughter.

You really should see the film Christspiracy, when it comes out online. Some top scholars are interviewed, and it is truly interesting and eye-opening.

 

[buttercup]

Using Christianity to do it is pretty low.

Yeah, encouraging mercy and kindness is such an evil, low thing to do! How DARE people advocate for animals and be a voice for the voiceless! How dare they expose the profit-driven horror show that goes on the animal industries. How dare they!!!!!!1

 

[kathydunn]

What saves us?

The work of Jesus on the cross, dying and rising again - the first fruits of our own resurrection, when we are baptized into Christ.

 

[SweetSue92]

The work of Jesus on the cross, dying and rising again - the first fruits of our own resurrection, when we are baptized into Christ.

Because if you CONFESS with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved--Romans 10:9-10

Believing and confessing, confessing and believing. That's it. Not eating vegetables or meat; not even baptism.

 

[SweetSue92]

Yeah, encouraging mercy and kindness is such an evil, low thing to do! How DARE people advocate for animals and be a voice for the voiceless! How dare they expose the profit-driven horror show that goes on the animal industries. How dare they!!!!!!1

You realize it's not beholden on Christians to care about animals the way you do. Right?

It's nice that you do, and you have some valid points. But you have no right to impart on other Christians that we are somehow lesser or uncaring because we don't.

Or as Augustine said:

In essentials, unity.

In non-essentials, liberty.

In all things, charity.

Eating meat would fall under LIBERTY. It's not a deal-breaker.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Because if you CONFESS with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved--Romans 10:9-10

Believing and confessing, confessing and believing. That's it. Not eating vegetables or meat; not even baptism.

Your responses in these threads is EXACTLY the response of a pro abortion "Christian."

Is a serial killer who continues to murder, "saved" as long as he acknowledges Christ? How about a serial rapist?
"The demons also believe and tremble." Are they "saved "? You need to rethink your arguments. They are lacking.

 

[SweetSue92]

Your responses in these threads is EXACTLY the response of a pro abortion "Christian."

Is a serial killer who continues to murder, "saved" as long as he acknowledges Christ? How about a serial rapist?
"The demons also believe and tremble." Are they "saved "? You need to rethink your arguments. They are lacking.

1. Animals and human beings are not the same. They are not.

2. The thief on the cross was told he would be "with Christ in paradise" when he confessed and believed. That's all it took. Now, if he came down from the cross and murdered and thieved, we would have reason to seriously question that faith. But from what we have, he was with Christ in paradise.

Some of you NEED to get yourselves under the authority of a church. You think you can go rogue on your own and it shows.

 

[buttercup]

You realize it's not beholden on Christians to care about animals the way you do. Right?

It's nice that you do, and you have some valid points. But you have no right to impart on other Christians that we are somehow lesser or uncaring because we don't.

Or as Augustine said:

In essentials, unity.

In non-essentials, liberty.

In all things, charity.

Eating meat would fall under LIBERTY. It's not a deal-breaker.

You keep arguing strawmen. I never claimed it was deal-breaker. Or even thought that. In fact, I'm pretty sure you and I just went over this in an earlier post, yesterday.

I do want to respond to something you said, though. I was about to do that now, but on second thought... I don't want to be up late posting here tonight, so I'll get back to it maybe tomorrow.

 

[kathydunn]

Don't throw the baby out with the wash water.

Regarding lactose intolerance, white Europeans don't suffer from it, mainly because they (we) are the descendants of Israel, who God blessed with lands "flowing with milk and honey". Other lands and peoples are not so blessed. In fact, their lactose intolerance prevents them from sharing in this blessing.

Regarding the garden of Eden. It was only a remnant of the originally created earth. Outside were "thorns and thistles", that Adam would have to fight in order to bring in a crop, by "the sweat of his brow". Eve would labor in childbirth ("go on her belly") and "eat dirt" as cursed by God.

Regarding the proper raising of farm animals, many 4Her's raise their animals as both pets and ag projects, knowing their fate beforehand. Most are sold so those kids won't see the death of their loved animals but accept that that is their purpose. It is notable that many first time 4Her's are heartbroken knowing this, but most get over it and go on to raise more. Of course, some are so affected that they leave the program.

That is called teaching our children cognitive dissonance, or as the bible calls it, double mindedness.

 

[SweetSue92]

Because if you CONFESS with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and BELIEVE in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved--Romans 10:9-10

Believing and confessing, confessing and believing. That's it. Not eating vegetables or meat; not even baptism.

How do you claim to be Christian and downvote SCRIPTURE?

 

[SweetSue92]

You keep arguing strawmen. I never claimed it was deal-breaker. Or even thought that. In fact, I'm pretty sure you and I just went over this in an earlier post, yesterday.

I do want to respond to something you said, though. I was about to do that now, but on second thought... I don't want to be up late posting here tonight, so I'll get back to it maybe tomorrow.

Among the brethren, as soon as you start shaming and blaming, it's a sin. To be frank about it.

For example, if a woman says, "I don't cut my hair or wear pants because the Bible says XYZ and it helps me remember XYZ", fine. I disagree with her, but I recognize her liberty to do these things and will not argue.

When she says "Christians shouldn't" or "What would Jesus say" or even IMPLIES such, she has trodden on MY liberty.

If you say "I view animals as God's creation and it hurts my conscience to eat them", by all means. Don't eat them. But honestly, in my study of Scripture, that's about as much as you can say on that issue. There is no standing to call into question the conscience of other Christians--and that is all over this thread.

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

Most are sold so those kids won't see the death of their loved animals but accept that that is their purpose. It is notable that many first time 4Her's are heartbroken knowing this, but most get over it

"Except you become as this little child, you shall in no way enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

The NATURAL state of the human is to feel compassion and mercy for all living beings. Interesting that you believe, while claiming to be Christian, that they must lose that compassion for others, while your Lord says otherwise

 

[CarlinAnnArbor]

How do you claim to be Christian and downvote SCRIPTURE?

Jesus down voted Satan's misapplication of Scripture

“If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written: “’He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’”

 

[Woodznutz]

That is called teaching our children cognitive dissonance, or as the bible calls it, double mindedness.

Sympathetic or callous responses can't really be taught, they come from within each individual.

 

[Woodznutz]

"Except you become as this little child, you shall I'm no way enter the Kingdom of Heaven"

The NATURAL state of the human is to feel compassion and mercy for all living beings. Interesting that you believe, while claiming to be Christian, that they must lose that compassion for others, while your Lord says otherwise

4Her's aren't "little children". They are mature enough to understand what animal agriculture is all about. They are compassionate toward their animals but realistic as well.

Regarding Christian compassion, when those feelings aren't there Christian duty takes over, so in any case the job of helping others gets done.
Agape: Assent of will, judgment, propriety, duty.

 

[surada]

Yeah, encouraging mercy and kindness is such an evil, low thing to do! How DARE people advocate for animals and be a voice for the voiceless! How dare they expose the profit-driven horror show that goes on the animal industries. How dare they!!!!!!1

You're a vegan and that's fine, but it has nothing to do with scripture.