is the wikileaks founder a traitor or hero?

[SFC Ollie]

Sorry, but even with the voluminous reporting and Internet noise, I see very little (if any) demoralization of the troops. It just doesn't happen. Even when the Iraq war was at its bloodiest, when anyone started mouthing off about the behavior of our soldiers and Marines, they were quickly tamped down by people of both political persuasion (at least on the three sites I posted on at the time). The only exception was the immoral activities of those involved in the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

It isn't situations like this that affect the morale of troops. It's grey suited polticians and Generals playing politics by fucking around with ROEs, where the right to self defence suddenly becomes 'courageous restraint'!

Couldn't have said it better.

 

[Colin]

Sorry, but even with the voluminous reporting and Internet noise, I see very little (if any) demoralization of the troops. It just doesn't happen. Even when the Iraq war was at its bloodiest, when anyone started mouthing off about the behavior of our soldiers and Marines, they were quickly tamped down by people of both political persuasion (at least on the three sites I posted on at the time). The only exception was the immoral activities of those involved in the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

It isn't situations like this that affect the morale of troops. It's grey suited polticians and Generals playing politics by fucking around with ROEs, where the right to self defence suddenly becomes 'courageous restraint'!

Couldn't have said it better.

It's crazy, Ollie! Self-protection has always been built into ROEs, and any combat vet knows the decision to return fire has to be made instantly based on the threat and training. Delay can not only be the difference between life or death, but it is yet another element that will only embolden the enemy. There's talk of striking a medal for courageous restraint...no doubt to be awarded posthumously! Fucking idiots!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

he released tons of classified info (traitor) while on the other hand he exposed war crimes and other criminal acts that had been covered up (hero)

so which is it?

Ohh really? Care to provide for us a single instance of a War crime he posted? How about other criminal activity?

 

[clevergirl]

Question:

When I first heard about these leaks I was disgusted and angry. I thought it to be another bout of a media runamok! Now after reading numerous commentary discussing some of the leaked information, I am reading that our government has knowingly been giving money to Pakistan; knowing that the money is being filtered to AQ and the Taliban? That we are also providing arms that are likewise being given over to the very people killing our soldiers.

Does this not make disclosure important to create pressure? Don't we need to end the politician's double dealing foreign policy that is getting our people killed?

Because if this is going to be the standards of practice bring them home immediately!

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Question:

When I first heard about these leaks I was disgusted and angry. I thought it to be another bout of a media runamok! Now after reading numerous commentary discussing some of the leaked information, I am reading that our government has knowingly been giving money to Pakistan; knowing that the money is being filtered to AQ and the Taliban? That we are also providing arms that are likewise being given over to the very people killing our soldiers.

Does this not make disclosure important to create pressure? Don't we need to end the politician's double dealing foreign policy that is getting our people killed?

Because if this is going to be the standards of practice bring them home immediately!

And yet, NO war crimes. Got any to share with us?

 

[SFC Ollie]

Question:

When I first heard about these leaks I was disgusted and angry. I thought it to be another bout of a media runamok! Now after reading numerous commentary discussing some of the leaked information, I am reading that our government has knowingly been giving money to Pakistan; knowing that the money is being filtered to AQ and the Taliban? That we are also providing arms that are likewise being given over to the very people killing our soldiers.

Does this not make disclosure important to create pressure? Don't we need to end the politician's double dealing foreign policy that is getting our people killed?

Because if this is going to be the standards of practice bring them home immediately!

It is obvious that our Government has been attempting to buy Pakistani support. But it doesn't matter what these papers show, they were classified, and as such some son of a bitch needs shot.

 

[MaggieMae]

I can't believe you just opened with the word "admirable" and closed with mention of "government transparency".
We got +/-300 pillow biters in DC that can't be bothered to read a 1,500 page healthcare bill, before voting on it, but it's fucking "Admirable" to give the entire planet >90k pages of Classified documents?


With the slightest amount of logical elimination, any Haji with a computer can calculate where we've been, to what result, and where we're likely to go next.

And, as to why **we weren't told about a lot if civilian causalities?**:
Because we already have enough computer-desk-generals surfing yahoo, google, wiki, and snopes trying to find any-fucking-thing they can to discredit this operation and thus demoralizing my troops.

Sorry, but even with the voluminous reporting and Internet noise, I see very little (if any) demoralization of the troops. It just doesn't happen. Even when the Iraq war was at its bloodiest, when anyone started mouthing off about the behavior of our soldiers and Marines, they were quickly tamped down by people of both political persuasion (at least on the three sites I posted on at the time). The only exception was the immoral activities of those involved in the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

Thanks for a civil reply to my over-the-top post, Maggie.
I was tired and irritable, and this leak really gets under my skin.

As to the highlighted section, I should ask if we should add a, "that is reported" qualifier to that statement.
Being in the comfort of our homes, we can't accurately testify to our troops morale can we?

I have very little doubt that some of the troops wonder what they're fighting for, but I was speaking about the public's demoralization of the troops. We'll always have war protestors, but in general, I don't think the majority of Americans looked upon the soldiers and Marines as evil participants. As in any war, they follow orders. In my opinion, with regard to BOTH wars in that region, those guys and gals and their families are the only ones making a real sacrifice.

 

[MaggieMae]

Sorry, but even with the voluminous reporting and Internet noise, I see very little (if any) demoralization of the troops. It just doesn't happen. Even when the Iraq war was at its bloodiest, when anyone started mouthing off about the behavior of our soldiers and Marines, they were quickly tamped down by people of both political persuasion (at least on the three sites I posted on at the time). The only exception was the immoral activities of those involved in the torture of prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

It isn't situations like this that affect the morale of troops. It's grey suited polticians and Generals playing politics by fucking around with ROEs, where the right to self defence suddenly becomes 'courageous restraint'!

That's true. If this isn't a "real" war, then the rules of engagement wouldn't apply. But since they're getting shot at, it is indeed "war" even by any other name.

 

[MaggieMae]

Question:

When I first heard about these leaks I was disgusted and angry. I thought it to be another bout of a media runamok! Now after reading numerous commentary discussing some of the leaked information, I am reading that our government has knowingly been giving money to Pakistan; knowing that the money is being filtered to AQ and the Taliban? That we are also providing arms that are likewise being given over to the very people killing our soldiers.

Does this not make disclosure important to create pressure? Don't we need to end the politician's double dealing foreign policy that is getting our people killed?

Because if this is going to be the standards of practice bring them home immediately!

That's the part that ironically no one should be surprised about. This article appeared in Newsweek in October of 2007, basically saying the same thing: That Pakistan allows Taliban militants to roam free and harbor al-Qaeda and bin Laden, and yet we continue to send them $3 billion a year in military aid.

Pakistan: The Most Dangerous? - Newsweek

 

[P F Tinmore]

WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange: "Transparent Government Tends to Produce Just Government"