Is the universe an intelligence creating machine?

[ding]

Catholic thought teaches that the mystery of man only makes sense in the light of Christ.

Wouldn't that be true of any christian faith?

Probably. But I’m not willing to assume or speak for them.

When we ignore liars, victimizers, bullies, cheaters and deceivers: Who else than Christ should be in the center of anyone who calls himselve on the own free will "Christian"? And why not to speak for others? Not to try to speak for others - for example for Jews - was one of the worst mistakes of Catholics under Hitler. Sometimes "tolerance" is perhaps only cowardice. And yes - you are right, when you like to criticize me now, that I used "to speak for them" in another context. But this was the first context I imagined when I read "I'm not willing ... to speak for them". This was under Hitler - and is still today - one of the worst sentences in all tyrannies.

I think you took what I wrote out of context.

That's what I said. Nice that you suddenly know what a context is. By the way: You are a pantheist arguing against the word "pantheism" and I have with pantheisms nothing to do at all - even when I say god is always here direct in the middle of our eyes. And it is also not pantheism to say god created Jesus. And when you say Jesus was not begotten - how was mother Mary able to get pregnant? And with all the exceptions, which you make for Jesus - how was he able to be a human being at all with your constraints?

And by the way: Do you believe in god or is god only a tool in your propagandistic toolbox?

Brother, I don’t say those things, the catechism says those things.

Of course I believe in God. I’m starting to wonder if you do.

 

[ding]

That’s mighty Christian of you, brother.

See it however you want.

View attachment 288294

Maybe if you realize that you need a source, i.e. Jesus, then you may be saved.

I don't think you even go to church nor were baptized. Catholics have a lot of rituals and more sins and different sins (original, mortal, venial), so it is the more difficult religion to follow. Jesus said there false teachers placed in the church by Satan (Catholics really focus on Satan (!)), so one can get misled. We see that all over the place on USMB.

You posted a science thread in the R&E forum. So you are looking for something.

It’s not a science thread. Intelligence created the universe to create intelligence.

Believe whatever you want about me and Catholics.

 

[toobfreak]

Wouldn't that be true of any christian faith?

Probably. But I’m not willing to assume or speak for them.

When we ignore liars, victimizers, bullies, cheaters and deceivers: Who else than Christ should be in the center of anyone who calls himselve on the own free will "Christian"? And why not to speak for others? Not to try to speak for others - for example for Jews - was one of the worst mistakes of Catholics under Hitler. Sometimes "tolerance" is perhaps only cowardice. And yes - you are right, when you like to criticize me now, that I used "to speak for them" in another context. But this was the first context I imagined when I read "I'm not willing ... to speak for them". This was under Hitler - and is still today - one of the worst sentences in all tyrannies.

I think you took what I wrote out of context.

That's what I said. Nice that you suddenly know what a context is. By the way: You are a pantheist arguing against the word "pantheism" and I have with pantheisms nothing to do at all - even when I say god is always here direct in the middle of our eyes. And it is also not pantheism to say god created Jesus. And when you say Jesus was not begotten - how was mother Mary able to get pregnant? And with all the exceptions, which you make for Jesus - how was he able to be a human being at all with your constraints?

And by the way: Do you believe in god or is god only a tool in your propagandistic toolbox?

Brother, I don’t say those things, the catechism says those things.

Of course I believe in God. I’m starting to wonder if you do.

The truly funny thing is that when you really get down to it, EVERYONE believes in God, after all God is what created the universe and everything has a cause! What people cannot agree on is what God is! Some see him as a bearded, vengeful old man, some see him as a very complex Sublime Being, yet others see him as nothing more than an object, a force or some event.

 

[ding]

Probably. But I’m not willing to assume or speak for them.

When we ignore liars, victimizers, bullies, cheaters and deceivers: Who else than Christ should be in the center of anyone who calls himselve on the own free will "Christian"? And why not to speak for others? Not to try to speak for others - for example for Jews - was one of the worst mistakes of Catholics under Hitler. Sometimes "tolerance" is perhaps only cowardice. And yes - you are right, when you like to criticize me now, that I used "to speak for them" in another context. But this was the first context I imagined when I read "I'm not willing ... to speak for them". This was under Hitler - and is still today - one of the worst sentences in all tyrannies.

I think you took what I wrote out of context.

That's what I said. Nice that you suddenly know what a context is. By the way: You are a pantheist arguing against the word "pantheism" and I have with pantheisms nothing to do at all - even when I say god is always here direct in the middle of our eyes. And it is also not pantheism to say god created Jesus. And when you say Jesus was not begotten - how was mother Mary able to get pregnant? And with all the exceptions, which you make for Jesus - how was he able to be a human being at all with your constraints?

And by the way: Do you believe in god or is god only a tool in your propagandistic toolbox?

Brother, I don’t say those things, the catechism says those things.

Of course I believe in God. I’m starting to wonder if you do.

The truly funny thing is that when you really get down to it, EVERYONE believes in God, after all God is what created the universe and everything has a cause! What people cannot agree on is what God is! Some see him as a bearded, vengeful old man, some see him as a very complex Sublime Being, yet others see him as nothing more than an object, a force or some event.

Given the militancy of some, it doesn’t feel as if everyone believes in God.

 

[zaangalewa]

Wouldn't that be true of any christian faith?

Probably. But I’m not willing to assume or speak for them.

When we ignore liars, victimizers, bullies, cheaters and deceivers: Who else than Christ should be in the center of anyone who calls himselve on the own free will "Christian"? And why not to speak for others? Not to try to speak for others - for example for Jews - was one of the worst mistakes of Catholics under Hitler. Sometimes "tolerance" is perhaps only cowardice. And yes - you are right, when you like to criticize me now, that I used "to speak for them" in another context. But this was the first context I imagined when I read "I'm not willing ... to speak for them". This was under Hitler - and is still today - one of the worst sentences in all tyrannies.

I think you took what I wrote out of context.

That's what I said. Nice that you suddenly know what a context is. By the way: You are a pantheist arguing against the word "pantheism" and I have with pantheisms nothing to do at all - even when I say god is always here direct in the middle of our eyes. And it is also not pantheism to say god created Jesus. And when you say Jesus was not begotten - how was mother Mary able to get pregnant? And with all the exceptions, which you make for Jesus - how was he able to be a human being at all with your constraints?

And by the way: Do you believe in god or is god only a tool in your propagandistic toolbox?

Brother,

I never heard any Catholic say to another Catholic "brother" - except when someone speaks with a monk. Muslims are doing so sometimes - and some protestants are doing so too sometimes. I still have not the feeling you have really something to do with Catholics, "Mr. Ding".

I don’t say those things, the catechism says those things.

No book says anything. Ask someone what he read, when he read a book, which he loves. You will be astonishend, when you read the book on your own. To read witout spirit and love and to read with spirit and love makes often a difference like day and night.

Of course I believe in God.

Of course you believe in god? ... Of course? ... Strange. ...

I’m starting to wonder if you do.

Ignoras. Numquam ignorabas et numquam ignorabis.
You do not know. You never knew and you never will know.

You could try to think about what I and others said to you - but you don't do it.

 

[james bond]

Intelligence created the universe to create intelligence.

Assertion.

Believe whatever you want about me and Catholics.

You're not very open about your Catholicism. If I meet somebody from St. Anthony's Catholic church, then I ask them if they were baptized there as chit chat. You do not talk about your Catholicism. I may talk about 70 AD in a religious forum such as this and most people would know what I was referring to. Rarely, would we have to compare each other's catechisms. Instead, we may discuss what each believes. Yours isn't Catholic dogma. Even zaangalewa doesn't believe you are Catholic and he's Catholic. I'm Protestant and don't believe you. I saw vasuderatorrent's post to you about making up your own stuff and that he could not discuss the Bible with you. I feel the same way. Thus, you WILL be misled. You already are. Anyway, it's food for thought. The Bible says to try twice to convince those who are non-believers or have lost their way. Otherwise, let it go.

 

[zaangalewa]

Do you believe that given enough time and the right conditions that intelligence will eventually arise?

What if the Universe itself is self aware?

I remember it was Einstein who said once: "The universe recognizes itselve in us human beings."

 

[james bond]

I finished reading a young Truman Capote's short stories book. One of the stories had something like every person has to find their way to heaven as the last line. I don't think that's true. After they die, then they do (they have to find the righteous side of Hades), but in life they have to discover how to get to heaven.

 

[ding]

Probably. But I’m not willing to assume or speak for them.

When we ignore liars, victimizers, bullies, cheaters and deceivers: Who else than Christ should be in the center of anyone who calls himselve on the own free will "Christian"? And why not to speak for others? Not to try to speak for others - for example for Jews - was one of the worst mistakes of Catholics under Hitler. Sometimes "tolerance" is perhaps only cowardice. And yes - you are right, when you like to criticize me now, that I used "to speak for them" in another context. But this was the first context I imagined when I read "I'm not willing ... to speak for them". This was under Hitler - and is still today - one of the worst sentences in all tyrannies.

I think you took what I wrote out of context.

That's what I said. Nice that you suddenly know what a context is. By the way: You are a pantheist arguing against the word "pantheism" and I have with pantheisms nothing to do at all - even when I say god is always here direct in the middle of our eyes. And it is also not pantheism to say god created Jesus. And when you say Jesus was not begotten - how was mother Mary able to get pregnant? And with all the exceptions, which you make for Jesus - how was he able to be a human being at all with your constraints?

And by the way: Do you believe in god or is god only a tool in your propagandistic toolbox?

Brother,

I never heard any Catholic say to another Catholic "brother" - except when someone speaks with a monk. Muslims are doing so sometimes - and some protestants are doing so too sometimes. I still have not the feeling you have really something to do with Catholics, "Mr. Ding".

I don’t say those things, the catechism says those things.

No book says anything. Ask someone what he read, when he read a book, which he loves. You will be astonishend, when you read the book on your own. To read witout spirit and love and to read with spirit and love makes often a difference like day and night.

Of course I believe in God.

Of course you believe in god? ... Of course? ... Strange. ...

I’m starting to wonder if you do.

Ignoras. Numquam ignorabas et numquam ignorabis.
You do not know. You never knew and you never will know.

You could try to think about what I and others said to you - but you don't do it.

Well, brother you just did hear one Catholic call another Catholic brother. Although given your rejection of Catholic thought maybe you only heard a Catholic refer to an apostate as brother.

I’ve read the catechism and the good book. I don’t see any inconsistencies at all. And I have read them with spirit. Nitpicking expressions like you are doing is a sign of a lack of argument. The reality is you are literally arguing against the catechism, not me.

You should be careful how you judge others, brother. As you will be judged that same way.

 

[ding]

Intelligence created the universe to create intelligence.

Assertion.

Believe whatever you want about me and Catholics.

You're not very open about your Catholicism. If I meet somebody from St. Anthony's Catholic church, then I ask them if they were baptized there as chit chat. You do not talk about your Catholicism. I may talk about 70 AD in a religious forum such as this and most people would know what I was referring to. Rarely, would we have to compare each other's catechisms. Instead, we may discuss what each believes. Yours isn't Catholic dogma. Even zaangalewa doesn't believe you are Catholic and he's Catholic. I'm Protestant and don't believe you. I saw vasuderatorrent's post to you about making up your own stuff and that he could not discuss the Bible with you. I feel the same way. Thus, you WILL be misled. You already are. Anyway, it's food for thought. The Bible says to try twice to convince those who are non-believers or have lost their way. Otherwise, let it go.

So you don’t believe God created the universe?

 

[ding]

Intelligence created the universe to create intelligence.

Assertion.

Believe whatever you want about me and Catholics.

You're not very open about your Catholicism. If I meet somebody from St. Anthony's Catholic church, then I ask them if they were baptized there as chit chat. You do not talk about your Catholicism. I may talk about 70 AD in a religious forum such as this and most people would know what I was referring to. Rarely, would we have to compare each other's catechisms. Instead, we may discuss what each believes. Yours isn't Catholic dogma. Even zaangalewa doesn't believe you are Catholic and he's Catholic. I'm Protestant and don't believe you. I saw vasuderatorrent's post to you about making up your own stuff and that he could not discuss the Bible with you. I feel the same way. Thus, you WILL be misled. You already are. Anyway, it's food for thought. The Bible says to try twice to convince those who are non-believers or have lost their way. Otherwise, let it go.

I’m not answering your questions because the answers to those questions have absolutely nothing to do with this thread or Catholic thought on the origin questions.

I have provided the catechism which shows that Catholics believe that God created the universe from nothing and that man evolved from that creation. Catholics love science. You? Not so much.

I believe you serve your dogma of creationism. I don’t believe you behave as an example of a shining light. I see little difference between your behaviors and the behaviors of the atheists you argue with.

 

[ding]

At this point I’m starting to miss Taz.

 

[ding]

And it is also not pantheism to say god created Jesus

I’ll let the catechism answer what pantheism is so that you can insult the catechism instead of me in your next disrespectful post.

285 Since the beginning the Christian faith has been challenged by responses to the question of origins that differ from its own. Ancient religions and cultures produced many myths concerning origins. Some philosophers have said that everything is God, that the world is God, or that the development of the world is the development of God (Pantheism).

And when you say Jesus was not begotten - how was mother Mary able to get pregnant?

I didn’t say he was not begotten. I said he wasn’t made or created. He is eternally begotten.

Again, I will let the catechism answer your question. So that you may insult the catechism with your next disrespectful post.

242 Following this apostolic tradition, the Church confessed at the first ecumenical council at Nicaea (325) that the Son is "consubstantial" with the Father, that is, one only God with him.66 The second ecumenical council, held at Constantinople in 381, kept this expression in its formulation of the Nicene Creed and confessed "the only-begotten Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father".67

Catechism of the Catholic Church - "Conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary"

 

[james bond]

So you don’t believe God created the universe?

You're taking things out of context cause you got butt whipped by me.

man evolved from that creation.

Nowhere does it say that. Man was created by God.

I’m not answering your questions because the answers to those questions have absolutely nothing to do with this thread or Catholic thought on the origin questions.

You're not answering my questions because it's too hard for you. It shows that you are wrong, but you can not, will not, admit it.

 

[james bond]

At this point I’m starting to miss Taz.

Did Taz die?

 

[ding]

So you don’t believe God created the universe?

You're taking things out of context cause you got butt whipped by me.

man evolved from that creation.

Nowhere does it say that. Man was created by God.

I’m not answering your questions because the answers to those questions have absolutely nothing to do with this thread or Catholic thought on the origin questions.

You're not answering my questions because it's too hard for you. It shows that you are wrong, but you can not, will not, admit it.

I’m not taking anything out of context. I am asking you if you believe God created the universe. Do you?

Are you arguing that the Catholic Church does not accept evolution?

No. I told you why I’m not answering your questions. I’m not going to argue with you about it.

 

[ding]

At this point I’m starting to miss Taz.

Did Taz die?

Just banned.

 

[zaangalewa]

When we ignore liars, victimizers, bullies, cheaters and deceivers: Who else than Christ should be in the center of anyone who calls himselve on the own free will "Christian"? And why not to speak for others? Not to try to speak for others - for example for Jews - was one of the worst mistakes of Catholics under Hitler. Sometimes "tolerance" is perhaps only cowardice. And yes - you are right, when you like to criticize me now, that I used "to speak for them" in another context. But this was the first context I imagined when I read "I'm not willing ... to speak for them". This was under Hitler - and is still today - one of the worst sentences in all tyrannies.

I think you took what I wrote out of context.

That's what I said. Nice that you suddenly know what a context is. By the way: You are a pantheist arguing against the word "pantheism" and I have with pantheisms nothing to do at all - even when I say god is always here direct in the middle of our eyes. And it is also not pantheism to say god created Jesus. And when you say Jesus was not begotten - how was mother Mary able to get pregnant? And with all the exceptions, which you make for Jesus - how was he able to be a human being at all with your constraints?

And by the way: Do you believe in god or is god only a tool in your propagandistic toolbox?

Brother,

I never heard any Catholic say to another Catholic "brother" - except when someone speaks with a monk. Muslims are doing so sometimes - and some protestants are doing so too sometimes. I still have not the feeling you have really something to do with Catholics, "Mr. Ding".

I don’t say those things, the catechism says those things.

No book says anything. Ask someone what he read, when he read a book, which he loves. You will be astonishend, when you read the book on your own. To read witout spirit and love and to read with spirit and love makes often a difference like day and night.

Of course I believe in God.

Of course you believe in god? ... Of course? ... Strange. ...

I’m starting to wonder if you do.

Ignoras. Numquam ignorabas et numquam ignorabis.
You do not know. You never knew and you never will know.

You could try to think about what I and others said to you - but you don't do it.

Well, brother

Hi, idiot.

you just did hear one Catholic call another Catholic brother.

Either you are not a Catholic or you are an Extraterrerstian or both. If you are a Catholic the you are the strangest Catholic I ever spoke with in my life. I told you yet that Catholics call not each other brother. We call monks "brother", nuns "sister", and in the english language priests "father". You ignore this very simple fact, which everyone knows in the western world, by using the expression "brother" like a provocation.

Although given your rejection of Catholic thought maybe you only heard a Catholic refer to an apostate as brother.

?

I’ve read the catechism and the good book.

The what?

I don’t see any inconsistencies at all.

What you see or think or not see and not think you do not say. Your legitimation of thoughts is a "copy and paste"-orgy. By the way: We made schools, when we found out it's more easy not to transport a college of teachers and tons of books with busses and lorries to every pupil.

And I have read them with spirit. Nitpicking

Nitpicking? One moment please: I told you what's the real problem - it destroyes hope to take the humanity of Jesus and make it to a play of your wrong thoughts and ideas. One of the best sentences in this context I read on a protesters placard not far from here. Someone wrote on it: "Mach's wie Gott: werde menschlich" = "Make it like god: become human".

expressions like you are doing is a sign of a lack of argument.

I gave you for every of my thoughts a simple concrete reason, why I think so.

The reality is you are literally arguing against the catechism, not me.

No. I just simple did not throw the catechism nor the bible into the dirt of a nonsense-discussion. Everyone, who reads, reads always only what he understands. For to learn someone needs a teacher. I am not a teacher. I am only one of much more than a billion Catholics.

You should be careful how you judge others, brother. As you will be judged that same way.

Okay. Then I say again what I tried to say to you: "The sentence, which you had used to show to others that they are wrong, - "The painter is not the painting" - is wrong on itselve in context Jesus Christ. Think about."

 

[zaangalewa]

And it is also not pantheism to say god created Jesus

I’ll let the catechism answer what pantheism is so that you can insult the catechism instead of me in your next disrespectful post.

285 Since the beginning the Christian faith has been challenged by responses to the question of origins that differ from its own. Ancient religions and cultures produced many myths concerning origins. Some philosophers have said that everything is God, that the world is God, or that the development of the world is the development of God (Pantheism).

And when you say Jesus was not begotten - how was mother Mary able to get pregnant?

I didn’t say he was not begotten. I said he wasn’t made or created. He is eternally begotten.

Again, I will let the catechism answer your question. So that you may insult the catechism with your next disrespectful post.

242 Following this apostolic tradition, the Church confessed at the first ecumenical council at Nicaea (325) that the Son is "consubstantial" with the Father, that is, one only God with him.66 The second ecumenical council, held at Constantinople in 381, kept this expression in its formulation of the Nicene Creed and confessed "the only-begotten Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, light from light, true God from true God, begotten not made, consubstantial with the Father".67

Catechism of the Catholic Church - "Conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary"

I said nothing about pantheism here. You speak continiously about pantheism. No idea why. Oh by the way: Is the Jesus over Rio de Janeiro a symbol for that Jesus walks on a Feigenbaum-diagram?

 

[james bond]

At this point I’m starting to miss Taz.

Did Taz die?

Just banned.

I meant USMB death as in .

I wish I was there to see it . Mwahahahahaha.