Is the rightwing still in denial over ObamaCare?

[Billy000]

Here are some facts to consider:

1) There has not been a great cost to jobs
2) Employers aren't dumping healthcare plans en masse.
3) Because millions more now have health insurance, insurance companies and providers largely support the law.
4) If it passes the next Supreme Court ruling, it will become a pillar in the healthcare industry.
5) repubs still have jack shit to replace it with.

 

[MisterBeale]

So you feel it needs to be replaced? That must mean you are being disingenuous with items 1-4?

My my how you seek to lie.

 

[Billy000]

So you feel it needs to be replaced? That must mean you are being disingenuous with items 1-4?

My my how you seek to lie.

No it doesn't. Hell I would replace it with single payer but that's never going to happen. Repubs would replace it with something far worse.

 

[1stRambo]

Here are some facts to consider:

1) There has not been a great cost to jobs
2) Employers aren't dumping healthcare plans en masse.
3) Because millions more now have health insurance, insurance companies and providers largely support the law.
4) If it passes the next Supreme Court ruling, it will become a pillar in the healthcare industry.
5) repubs still have jack shit to replace it with.

Yo, I don`t think it will pass the smell test! If they are going bby the Constitution? Then it will fail!!!

"GTP"

 

[konradv]

View attachment 38409

Can't the government protect us from financial ruin brought on by illness?

 

[emilynghiem]

Here are some facts to consider:

1) There has not been a great cost to jobs
2) Employers aren't dumping healthcare plans en masse.
3) Because millions more now have health insurance, insurance companies and providers largely support the law.
4) If it passes the next Supreme Court ruling, it will become a pillar in the healthcare industry.
5) repubs still have jack shit to replace it with.

Dear Billy000
Slavery also built the economy.
But it was a violation of human rights, and natural laws on free will of persons.

Every person is born with free will and a desire for liberty or free choice.
So this bill goes against human nature, and will naturally be protested!
Unless someone commits a crime, there is no justification for the govt depriving such persons of liberty we had before. What crime is being committed in wanting free choice to provide health care in other ways besides govt mandated insurance?

I posted a thread for francoHFW about how medical care requires physical material resources and labor.
So this is not free.

If you want affordable, public health care, you are free to volunteer and donate your own services.
If you want other people to join you, they must do so VOLUNTARILY and there is no problem!

But to mandate this belief through govt, against the will of taxpayers who BELIEVE in free will and free market choices,
violates religious freedom under the First Amendment, and equal protection from discrimination by creed under the Fourteenth Amendment and Civil Rights Act.

If you see it as forcing people to forfeit their labor, that violates the Thirteenth Amendment against involuntary servitude
except if a crime is committed (and someone goes through due process before losing liberties under the Fifth Amendment)

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

For those who see the rights to health care choices as a right of the people and the states,
this violated the Tenth Amendment unless a Constitutional Amendment is voted on that delegates this to Federal Govt.

Dear Billy000 As good as the intentions are, it is still outside the bounds of Constitutional procedures and jurisdiction of Govt to pass a law that mandates these regulations on taxpayers, under penalty, depriving us of liberty and "free choice" when we committed NO CRIME.

The CHOICE to pay for health care through other means besides "private insurance"
is NOT a crime to be punished by a tax penalty!

There is nothing wrong with paying for health care of oneself and others completely VOLUNTARILY.
Yet this is being treated as a CRIME where taxpayers have been DEPRIVED of liberty and forced to go through govt.

You can justify in your mind that this is necessary.
But how is that different from people who saw slavery as necessary to build the economy
when there was not enough help or resources to pay people to work the land?

The Southern economy depended on slave labor. This helped America build and prepare for the Industrial Revolution
that allowed America's economy to grow to top advantage over other nations.

Does that make it justified?

 

[emilynghiem]

View attachment 38409

Can't the government protect us from financial ruin brought on by illness?

Dear konradv If you look up the costs and lives saved by FREE spiritual healing
(examples Christian Healing Ministries - Christian Healing Ministries and Healing Is Yours
the charity and voluntary programs can do a better job of cutting the costs by curing the causes of illness,
including conditions that medicine alone cannot cure (examples: schizophrenia, drug addictions, sexual abuse
that otherwise cost taxpayers in terms of mental health, police and prison costs of 50K per person a year)

Since spiritual healing works voluntarily, and cannot be mandated by govt,
why is insurance able to be mandated by govt? Shouldn't that be a free choice also?

After all, Spiritual Healing has been shown to cure and cut the costs of
* cancer
* criminal illness, addiction and abuse
* schizophrenia, manic depression, and other mental disorders
* diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, etc.

Insurance does not cure any of these conditions, yet it is being mandated. Why?

Why mandate insurance to cut costs, but not mandate Spiritual Healing which would save both lives and costs? If the point was to save resources to cover more people, Spiritual Healing would do more good than Insurance; so if that can't be mandated how can insurance be required?

Spiritual Healing would change the mental health and prison systems to be effective treatment and prevention. The billions of dollars saved per year could easily pay for health care for the larger populations instead of wasting it on medications, incarceration and costs for prison and mental health populations.

If you were really going for saving costs and serving more people,
then Spiritual Healing which is FREE is far more cost effective than insurance.

But since that can't be mandated by govt, then insurance is being mandated instead.

Why be forced to pay insurance companies profiting off the costs of treatment,
when the cure is FREE that could correct and prevent the cause of most illness?

Does this make any sense?
It sounds backwards to me, abusing govt take over health care for political control,
because people are avoiding natural and effective solutions that come from the private sector.

It's a form of censorship, then screaming victim victim to the costs from not curing diseases naturally,
and then crying out for govt to step in and manage it, when so many of these conditions can be cured for FREE.

What kind of scam do you think this is?
Who do you think is benefiting but the politicians and the medical pharmaceuticals
who profit from people not knowing that diseases can be cured for FREE.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Conservatives are in denial about most everything.

 

[emilynghiem]

Conservatives are in denial about most everything.

They say the same thing about Liberals.
Must be mutual. I find there are issues on both sides
where one is in denial while the other complains, and vice versa.

This is one where the conservatives have nailed it,
and liberals like you keep justifying and rationalizing away to avoid the core conflict.

The liberals I know that get it, really want universal care,
and don't agree to the insurance mandates, but appear to rely on the rightwing to fight that fight.

It seems they don't want to go against their own leadership, so they are being silent on it
and focus on pushing for more reforms, so they don't divide their own party.
Something like that.

Similar to when the rightwing opposed to Bush on the Patriot Act and Iraq War weren't as vocal or visible, and just let the Leftwing do the majority of protesting in the media. The opposition within the party was there, but the media painted it in black and white for the public.

This is very strange how the political party system works with the media.

C_Clayton_Jones you do disappoint me here.
With your intelligence, I keep hoping you would be able to acknowledge that both sides
do this. Surely you are not so biased you would let your political preference get in the way of being objective and seeing the problems for what they are -- mutual denial and projection,
but on different points, taking turns doing this and then blaming the other side for doing it.

If I can see both sides, surely other people can admit this is going on mutually!!!

Sad that you can only see one side, and don't see how liberals come across
the same way to conservatives. Both go into denial and project blame on the other.

Are you sure you cannot see this is BOTH sides being onesided?

I posted a poll listing some of the examples of the mutual blindsidedness.
Who will be last to come out of denial US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
Do ANY of those examples "ring a bell" that this is mutual conflict going on?

 

[hortysir]

Here are some facts to consider:

1) There has not been a great cost to jobs
2) Employers aren't dumping healthcare plans en masse.
3) Because millions more now have health insurance, insurance companies and providers largely support the law.
4) If it passes the next Supreme Court ruling, it will become a pillar in the healthcare industry.
5) repubs still have jack shit to replace it with.

1) Just a major reduction in the number of hours

2) Just switching to crappier plans

3) The evil insurance companies are the ones benefiting the most
4) IF a frog had wings.....

5) Republicans DO have a plan. Google is your friend

 

[Marxist]

Here are some facts to consider:

1) There has not been a great cost to jobs
2) Employers aren't dumping healthcare plans en masse.
3) Because millions more now have health insurance, insurance companies and providers largely support the law.
4) If it passes the next Supreme Court ruling, it will become a pillar in the healthcare industry.
5) repubs still have jack shit to replace it with.

Yo, I don`t think it will pass the smell test! If they are going bby the Constitution? Then it will fail!!!

"GTP"
View attachment 38409

I thought protecting the people would include giving them affordable access to healthcare..

 

[francoHFW]

Here are some facts to consider:

1) There has not been a great cost to jobs
2) Employers aren't dumping healthcare plans en masse.
3) Because millions more now have health insurance, insurance companies and providers largely support the law.
4) If it passes the next Supreme Court ruling, it will become a pillar in the healthcare industry.
5) repubs still have jack shit to replace it with.

1) Just a major reduction in the number of hours

2) Just switching to crappier plans

3) The evil insurance companies are the ones benefiting the most
4) IF a frog had wings.....

5) Republicans DO have a plan. Google is your friend

NOT. Everything you know is Pubcrappe. This IS the Pub Plan, until DEMS decided to take them up on it. Pubs are totally in Big Health's pocket. Also big oil, defense, Pharma, etc.

 

[Agit8r]

Yes, but they are finding narrower and narrower problematic instances to bitch about it.

 

[francoHFW]

They'll soon move on to the next set of BS ADHD "outrages" and forget they were ever against it...hater dupes.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Republican Nightmares Come True As Customer Satisfaction With Obamacare Skyrockets

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Look they are in panic mode ...how can they betray the Tea Party this way

Them Repug Numbnutz are in a panic now


Help! Senate GOP Rushes To Keep O’Care Off 2016 Ballot



WASHINGTON — The Senate’s top five Republican leaders have cosponsored legislation to extend until 2017 the Obamacare insurance subsidies that may be struck down by the Supreme Court this summer.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Fucking Boner funded it, it isn't going anywhere except eventually it will b replaced w/single payer.

It is shit. My brother was paying $160/month for his catastrophic plan prior to this pos, his plan went buh bye, his new plan with the mandated coverage was $550 last year went up to $675 for this year. Maternity, pediatric, mamograms ... all for a middle aged single male.

It's fucking bullshit and the employer mandate hasn't kicked in yet so more is going to hit the fan.

And what an asinine statement 'insurance companies and providers like it'. No shit, Sherlock. I'd like it if the gov't handed my business a shitload more paying customers too and they don't give a shit who is footing the bill either.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Senate GOP leaders have just endorsed a bill extending Obamacare subsidies through 2017.

 

[francoHFW]

Fucking Boner funded it, it isn't going anywhere except eventually it will b replaced w/single payer.

It is shit. My brother was paying $160/month for his catastrophic plan prior to this pos, his plan went buh bye, his new plan with the mandated coverage was $550 last year went up to $675 for this year. Maternity, pediatric, mamograms ... all for a middle aged single male.

It's fucking bullshit and the employer mandate hasn't kicked in yet so more is going to hit the fan.

And what an asinine statement 'insurance companies and providers like it'. No shit, Sherlock. I'd like it if the gov't handed my business a shitload more paying customers too and they don't give a shit who is footing the bill either.

He also has all kinds of free tests and cheap doctor visits, guaranteed coverage, and subsidy. His shytty red state insurance was good for nothing and his new insurance will get cheaper when his shytty red state starts cooperating. Ditto his greedy idiot Pub dupe employer.

 

[TyroneSlothrop]