Is the left really against schools hiring students or is the issue Gingrich said it?

[Iridescence]

I disagree that any whole generation has been messed up or failed, completely, if at all. Some of the most marvelous and inventive people, places, and things have come from commonly perceived mistakes/errors.

 

[Dragon]

Guy, I gave up trying to contemplate your "thoughts" a long time ago.

I find him quite easy to understand, at least on this thread.

If you have an example of this ideal world- NAME IT.

He's not talking about an "ideal world." He's talking about real-life nations, whose adults are not PERFECT examples of effectiveness, responsibility and productivity, but merely THE BEST examples IN REAL LIFE.

And his point is that all of those countries who exhibit these adults are ones which have strict laws and traditions against child labor.

I would add that all of the most advanced nations in the world have such laws and traditions, all of the richest economies, all of the best places to live. Trying to reverse that about the United States is to attempt to make us more like third-world, impoverished nations. That's actually true about most of the conservative economic agenda.

 

[NoNukes]

And the sad thing is, you probably think that is the "truth". Kids need to be taught the awesomeness of America and how it made the world a better place. How millions around the world owe us a debt of thanks for their lives and freedom.

Not this simpering guilt trip you guys want to lay on them.

In other words, you want children to believe a lie, as you obviously do.

Well, if that's what you believe about America, you are more than welcome to leave. I'm sure there are socialist countries in Europe that would be happy to have you.

I have lived in Europe for 15 years, and I love it.

 

[candycorn]

This is the thing... Our children need to learn to be employees. They need to learn to work, to earn wages, to appreciate their education, to make the most of their youth and to enjoy their lives... Keeping them from being employed when they obviously need all the benefits from employment is insane. Newt or another... I, personally, support child labor. I have come from appreciating unions and what they have pressed toward through the years, though they seem to not represent now what they had. I do not agree that employing children is going to put the adults out of jobs... it should, instead, force the adults to demand better of themselves than to settle for janitorial positions.

You're actually stating....and I can't believe this is true...that children need to learn to be employees?

Wow, if this is where the right wing of the Republican party is, Obama may end up with a Reagan landslide.

I'm pretty sure that we have the "learn to be employees" thing down pat there pal. We probably should be teaching them to be qualified to be employable at a high level since few go from school into successful entrepreneuership (sp?)

 

[LoneLaugher]

Guy, I gave up trying to contemplate your "thoughts" a long time ago.

I find him quite easy to understand, at least on this thread.

If you have an example of this ideal world- NAME IT.

He's not talking about an "ideal world." He's talking about real-life nations, whose adults are not PERFECT examples of effectiveness, responsibility and productivity, but merely THE BEST examples IN REAL LIFE.

And his point is that all of those countries who exhibit these adults are ones which have strict laws and traditions against child labor.

I would add that all of the most advanced nations in the world have such laws and traditions, all of the richest economies, all of the best places to live. Trying to reverse that about the United States is to attempt to make us more like third-world, impoverished nations. That's actually true about most of the conservative economic agenda.

C'mon, man........humor me a little. I'm so easy to please. I would like to know if you think there are places on earth that are populated with educated, qualified, hard-working citizens. If so, where?

 

[Jackson]

Isn't it great how nutters pepper their rants with misinformation.......and it just slides by because taking them to task on every misrepresentation of the facts would kill any hope for even inane discussion?

Examples scattered in this thread:

"with the high taxes we pay......."
"unions have too much power...."
"labor is a type of education"

Please consider this question. Where in this world will you find the most effective, responsible and productive adults?

Answer that, and then examine the child labor laws and child-rearing traditions in that country. Learn from them.

That is all.

In Asian countries the education of students is ultra important. I never had an Asian parent who wanted to blame the system and the students really work as modeled by the parents. Big difference from here.

The unions do have too much power. The success should depend upon the worker, not what propagandist associations that stand up for poor performance.

 

[Iridescence]

This is the thing... Our children need to learn to be employees. They need to learn to work, to earn wages, to appreciate their education, to make the most of their youth and to enjoy their lives... Keeping them from being employed when they obviously need all the benefits from employment is insane. Newt or another... I, personally, support child labor. I have come from appreciating unions and what they have pressed toward through the years, though they seem to not represent now what they had. I do not agree that employing children is going to put the adults out of jobs... it should, instead, force the adults to demand better of themselves than to settle for janitorial positions.

You're actually stating....and I can't believe this is true...that children need to learn to be employees?

Wow, if this is where the right wing of the Republican party is, Obama may end up with a Reagan landslide.

I'm pretty sure that we have the "learn to be employees" thing down pat there pal. We probably should be teaching them to be qualified to be employable at a high level since few go from school into successful entrepreneuership (sp?)

It seems you find flaw with something I have posted... but, deed, in reading your response, it seems we agree on some things... Many, many individuals, however, seem to have little to no clue how to be empoyees. No, I do not mean that many do not know how to be employed... I mean successfully employable... ie, with potential of future job advancement and such. Perhaps one reason companies don't pay better wages and provide better benefits is that the employees are collectively just employed and that is all they care to be.

 

[Big Black Dog]

I like President-elect Newt.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Isn't it great how nutters pepper their rants with misinformation.......and it just slides by because taking them to task on every misrepresentation of the facts would kill any hope for even inane discussion?

Examples scattered in this thread:

"with the high taxes we pay......."
"unions have too much power...."
"labor is a type of education"

Please consider this question. Where in this world will you find the most effective, responsible and productive adults?

Answer that, and then examine the child labor laws and child-rearing traditions in that country. Learn from them.

That is all.

In Asian countries the education of students is ultra important. I never had an Asian parent who wanted to blame the system and the students really work as modeled by the parents. Big difference from here.

The unions do have too much power. The success should depend upon the worker, not what propagandist associations that stand up for poor performance.

Quaint generalizations.......but not an answer to the question I posed.

 

[SAT2]

Liberals and Democrats found Newt's statements about child labor to be historically ignorant, impractical, class warfare.

Those who have appreciated Newt's statements do not seem to understand either Newt's statements, or the reasons for child labor laws, or even to understand what janitors do.

 

[Iridescence]

Perhaps none of it is really about who says what but rather what the American people are predisposed to thinking.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Arguments used against me by the left on this include:

- It's "forcing" students to work to pay them to do jobs around the school
- If students are to do jobs, we should force all students to do them, not pay some of them to do them
- It's depriving janitors of their livelihood.
- 10 year old will be forced to clean bathrooms
- Newt saying our child labor laws are stupid can only mean he wants to repeal all labor laws.

I have a hard time seeing in real life that if schools offered students work for chores around the school that the liberals would say or even think any of these things. I think they'd be OK with it. But you tell me, is that really the issue? Or is it a partisan attack against Gingrich?

I'd like you liberals to think about this and just be honest. Would you seriously make these arguments if your local school just did it? They offered kids money to perform chores around the school?

Find a liberal who agrees with Newt on this and I'll prove he's an idiot too. Does that answer your question?

 

[kaz]

Newt attacks child labor laws for only allowing 14 and up to work.

He then touts great people as having started work at 9 years old. A logical mind can do the math.

A logical mind could do the math. But we're discussing your mind...

 

[Iridescence]

The fact of the matter is there are some of us mothers who have grown up with grandparents that were not enslaved but who did work at a young age... 9, 10, 11, and older. These people in our lives were not hesitent leaders and had maintained a moderately consistent level of respect toward our country, our government during some of the most difficult times in history. My children already do extra chores and clean and also help other family members for a little of their own cash. It isn't enslavement, it is empowerment, in my opinion.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Holy shit. The inability of some of you to understand the argument being made by those who oppose Newt's suggestion is epic in nature.

 

[SAT2]

The fact of the matter is there are some of us mothers who have grown up with grandparents that were not enslaved but who did work at a young age... 9, 10, 11, and older. These people in our lives were not hesitent leaders and had maintained a moderately consistent level of respect toward our country, our government during some of the most difficult times in history. My children already do extra chores and clean and also help other family members for a little of their own cash. It isn't enslavement, it is empowerment, in my opinion.

Yes. For their family members. Not in the workforce. For their family members.

Why is it so impossible for the Republicans to deal honestly with what Newt said?

 

[JoeB131]

Holy shit. The inability of some of you to understand the argument being made by those who oppose Newt's suggestion is epic in nature.

We understand your argument perfectly...

"Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, they are going to put our union buddies out of jobs and show kids that work is better than welfare. Oh, whatever shall become of us? Quick, let's bring up horror stories about the early industrial revolution, even though conditions like that couldn't really exist in this country with the modern technology."

 

[Iridescence]

I don't know... I just watched him again this morning and, honestly, I know a great deal of needy and hungry individuals who would appose passing any of their burdens on to their children.

And, yes, there is a huge difference between employing children within their own families vs employing them in a workforce outside of their family. I haven't always, but do currently work taking care of my dad. It makes a big difference to and for our family that there are programs in which allow us to do so.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Holy shit. The inability of some of you to understand the argument being made by those who oppose Newt's suggestion is epic in nature.

We understand your argument perfectly...

"Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, they are going to put our union buddies out of jobs and show kids that work is better than welfare. Oh, whatever shall become of us? Quick, let's bring up horror stories about the early industrial revolution, even though conditions like that couldn't really exist in this country with the modern technology."

Fail.

 

[JoeB131]

Holy shit. The inability of some of you to understand the argument being made by those who oppose Newt's suggestion is epic in nature.

We understand your argument perfectly...

"Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, they are going to put our union buddies out of jobs and show kids that work is better than welfare. Oh, whatever shall become of us? Quick, let's bring up horror stories about the early industrial revolution, even though conditions like that couldn't really exist in this country with the modern technology."

Fail.

That's all it's about, guy.

You all have no problem making kids sell candy to support those bloated union salaries. Might be going to Chester the Molestors house, for all you know, but hey, we need those contributions going.

But replace the Union Ball-scratchers with kids who'd do a better job? Ahhhhhhh!!!!!