Is it over? Has Trump taken the GOP? The mechanics of a third party

Mac1958

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Dec 8, 2011
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Opposing Authoritarian Ideological Fundamentalism.
The plan here (at least at the moment) is to chart and catalogue the progress (if any) of a new third party proposed by Republicans and former Republicans who are horrified by the trajectory the party has taken over the last five years.


So, two random thoughts and questions:

First, and perhaps most importantly, we all know that starting, growing and maintaining a viable third party would be a massive, herculean task. Odds certainly are that it won't stick and will most likely go down in history as a temporary, inter-party squabble. The linked article does go into what it would take for this effort to be successful, though, including finding and rallying around a charismatic figure. Without such a figure, this will never get off the ground. Do you agree or disagree?

Second, speaking of charismatic figures (for better or worse), Trump now has so much direct and indirect control of the GOP that it's telling that anti-Trumpers would even be talking about this. To me, that says that they've given up trying to grab the party back from him. If Trump gets the GOP, he gets all of the absolutely critical existing national infrastructure that goes with it. Is that what has happened? Have the anti-Trumpers ceded the party to Trump?

Interesting points in the linked piece:

Kinzinger joined the Feb. 5 video conference of the anti-Trump group and spoke for about five minutes, a spokeswoman told Reuters. But the congressman wants to “reform the party from within,” she said. He has recently formed a new political action committee to support Republican primary challengers running against pro-Trump House Republicans such as Matt Gaetz, of Florida, and Marjorie Taylor Greene, of Georgia. What's tougher -- reforming a party you've lost, or starting a new one?

“Let’s not kid ourselves; we are not going to change this party,” said Jim Glassman, a former undersecretary of state under George W. Bush. That sure is how it looks right now.

Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn laughed when asked by Reuters about a possible third party. “More power to ‘em,” he said. Cornyn, however, predicted shared opposition to President Biden’s agenda will hold Republicans together. He said he hopes life in the Republican Party will return to something more normal in Trump’s absence. Yeah, I don't see that. I don't think Cornyn knows where this party has gone, right under his nose.
 
A third party would have to appeal to centrist Democrats. They could appeal to the non-looney grassroots. Now all it could be is elite RINOs. Opposition to in the GOP Trump is futile.
 

McMullin said just over 40% of those on last week’s Zoom call backed the idea of a breakaway, national third party. Another option under discussion is to form a “faction” that would operate either inside the current Republican Party or outside it.

Such a "faction" would have to be pretty freaking large, organized and cohesive. And how do those Republicans stay in power without being primaried out? So yeah, it would have to operate outside the party itself. Tough to imagine that.
 

McMullin said just over 40% of those on last week’s Zoom call backed the idea of a breakaway, national third party. Another option under discussion is to form a “faction” that would operate either inside the current Republican Party or outside it.

Such a "faction" would have to be pretty freaking large, organized and cohesive. And how do those Republicans stay in power without being primaried out? So yeah, it would have to operate outside the party itself. Tough to imagine that.

The key is this: Who's going to lead them. If you had a magic wand...who would you want or (better question) who do you think could lead them?
 
The plan here (at least at the moment) is to chart and catalogue the progress (if any) of a new third party proposed by Republicans and former Republicans who are horrified by the trajectory the party has taken over the last five years.


So, two random thoughts and questions:

First, and perhaps most importantly, we all know that starting, growing and maintaining a viable third party would be a massive, herculean task. Odds certainly are that it won't stick and will most likely go down in history as a temporary, inter-party squabble. The linked article does go into what it would take for this effort to be successful, though, including finding and rallying around a charismatic figure. Without such a figure, this will never get off the ground. Do you agree or disagree?

Second, speaking of charismatic figures (for better or worse), Trump now has so much direct and indirect control of the GOP that it's telling that anti-Trumpers would even be talking about this. To me, that says that they've given up trying to grab the party back from him. If Trump gets the GOP, he gets all of the absolutely critical existing national infrastructure that goes with it. Is that what has happened? Have the anti-Trumpers ceded the party to Trump?

Interesting points in the linked piece:

Kinzinger joined the Feb. 5 video conference of the anti-Trump group and spoke for about five minutes, a spokeswoman told Reuters. But the congressman wants to “reform the party from within,” she said. He has recently formed a new political action committee to support Republican primary challengers running against pro-Trump House Republicans such as Matt Gaetz, of Florida, and Marjorie Taylor Greene, of Georgia. What's tougher -- reforming a party you've lost, or starting a new one?

“Let’s not kid ourselves; we are not going to change this party,” said Jim Glassman, a former undersecretary of state under George W. Bush. That sure is how it looks right now.

Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn laughed when asked by Reuters about a possible third party. “More power to ‘em,” he said. Cornyn, however, predicted shared opposition to President Biden’s agenda will hold Republicans together. He said he hopes life in the Republican Party will return to something more normal in Trump’s absence. Yeah, I don't see that. I don't think Cornyn knows where this party has gone, right under his nose.

It is most likely going to end up like what happened to the WHIG party back in the 1800’s and there will be a split like with the Republican and Know Nothing Party...

The Know Nothing Faction AKA Trump Political Base will drive itself out of existence while a more moderate party formerly known as the Republican Party will rebuild itself to run against the Democrat Party...

What is AMAZING is how Trump voting base are willing to allow this to happen and make sure Democrats win in the future, and it make me wonder if this was Trump plan from the start to destroy the GOP and have a one party system ruling this country for a period of time?
 
The role of big business in republican politics cannot be understated. A moderate third party could do pretty good if they get most of the oligarchy to support them.
 

McMullin said just over 40% of those on last week’s Zoom call backed the idea of a breakaway, national third party. Another option under discussion is to form a “faction” that would operate either inside the current Republican Party or outside it.

Such a "faction" would have to be pretty freaking large, organized and cohesive. And how do those Republicans stay in power without being primaried out? So yeah, it would have to operate outside the party itself. Tough to imagine that.

The key is this: Who's going to lead them. If you had a magic wand...who would you want or (better question) who do you think could lead them?

Moderate side I prefer Romney, Collins and so on but from the lunatic side you can have Trump and his kids lead those ignorant fools!
 
The plan here (at least at the moment) is to chart and catalogue the progress (if any) of a new third party proposed by Republicans and former Republicans who are horrified by the trajectory the party has taken over the last five years.


So, two random thoughts and questions:

First, and perhaps most importantly, we all know that starting, growing and maintaining a viable third party would be a massive, herculean task. Odds certainly are that it won't stick and will most likely go down in history as a temporary, inter-party squabble. The linked article does go into what it would take for this effort to be successful, though, including finding and rallying around a charismatic figure. Without such a figure, this will never get off the ground. Do you agree or disagree?

Second, speaking of charismatic figures (for better or worse), Trump now has so much direct and indirect control of the GOP that it's telling that anti-Trumpers would even be talking about this. To me, that says that they've given up trying to grab the party back from him. If Trump gets the GOP, he gets all of the absolutely critical existing national infrastructure that goes with it. Is that what has happened? Have the anti-Trumpers ceded the party to Trump?

Interesting points in the linked piece:

Kinzinger joined the Feb. 5 video conference of the anti-Trump group and spoke for about five minutes, a spokeswoman told Reuters. But the congressman wants to “reform the party from within,” she said. He has recently formed a new political action committee to support Republican primary challengers running against pro-Trump House Republicans such as Matt Gaetz, of Florida, and Marjorie Taylor Greene, of Georgia. What's tougher -- reforming a party you've lost, or starting a new one?

“Let’s not kid ourselves; we are not going to change this party,” said Jim Glassman, a former undersecretary of state under George W. Bush. That sure is how it looks right now.

Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn laughed when asked by Reuters about a possible third party. “More power to ‘em,” he said. Cornyn, however, predicted shared opposition to President Biden’s agenda will hold Republicans together. He said he hopes life in the Republican Party will return to something more normal in Trump’s absence. Yeah, I don't see that. I don't think Cornyn knows where this party has gone, right under his nose.

It is most likely going to end up like what happened to the WHIG party back in the 1800’s and there will be a split like with the Republican and Know Nothing Party...

The Know Nothing Faction AKA Trump Political Base will drive itself out of existence while a more moderate party formerly known as the Republican Party will rebuild itself to run against the Democrat Party...

What is AMAZING is how Trump voting base are willing to allow this to happen and make sure Democrats win in the future, and it make me wonder if this was Trump plan from the start to destroy the GOP and have a one party system ruling this country for a period of time?
Makes no sense why Democrats are trying to make sure that Trump cannot seek public office again since by your gibberish, it would ensure sweeping Democrat victories.

Obviously, they are just as scared as you are.
 
Only folks that don't understand what is going on would fall for a "conservative" establishment party.

The thing is, folks that vote conservative are against BIG GOVERNMENT. This movement is FOR big government, and for the establishment. McMullins is a stooge of the CIA and the big banks. He doesn't give a shit about mom & pop small businesses and small farms. Why would anyone vote for him? They wouldn't. If they were dumb enough to be fooled into that. . . they would just vote for a democrat. There are plenty of globalist, CFR, CIA bankster, interventionist politicians over there that don't care much for folks.


". . .McMullin spent 10 years working for the Central Intelligence Agency in its National Clandestine Service, operating as an undercover agent for intelligence, counterterrorism and counterinsurgency in the Middle East (where he claimed to speak “beginner’s Arabic”), North Africa and South Asia.

In 2011, he went to work for investment bank Goldman Sachs in the company’s San Francisco mergers and acquisitions office. In 2013, McMullin acted as a senior advisor for national security issues on the House Committee for Foreign Affairs during the 113th Congress. In 2015, he was made the chief policy director for the House Republican Conference, giving up the post earlier this year.

McMullin has delivered speeches to groups such as TEDx and alumni at the University of Pennsylvania on topics as diverse as Syrian genocide and poverty in America, the latter of which he’s criticized the U.S. government for, saying that despite an enormous amount of money spent fighting the condition, poverty rates in the nation are roughly the same as they were in the mid-1960s.. . . "



The whole point of your OP and your posts here, is that you want the GOP to chart a course away from populism.

The real question should be, how much longer can the DNC steer it's folks away from supporting candidates like Bernie?

They will only be able to suppress populism in BOTH parties for so long, eventually, the fraud they pull in these primaries and the general elections will piss both sides off to such a point, it will unite all the people against the oligarchs in banking, big tech, and that Deep State.

Eventually, they will have to give the people what they want.

 
The plan here (at least at the moment) is to chart and catalogue the progress (if any) of a new third party proposed by Republicans and former Republicans who are horrified by the trajectory the party has taken over the last five years.


So, two random thoughts and questions:

First, and perhaps most importantly, we all know that starting, growing and maintaining a viable third party would be a massive, herculean task. Odds certainly are that it won't stick and will most likely go down in history as a temporary, inter-party squabble. The linked article does go into what it would take for this effort to be successful, though, including finding and rallying around a charismatic figure. Without such a figure, this will never get off the ground. Do you agree or disagree?

Second, speaking of charismatic figures (for better or worse), Trump now has so much direct and indirect control of the GOP that it's telling that anti-Trumpers would even be talking about this. To me, that says that they've given up trying to grab the party back from him. If Trump gets the GOP, he gets all of the absolutely critical existing national infrastructure that goes with it. Is that what has happened? Have the anti-Trumpers ceded the party to Trump?

Interesting points in the linked piece:

Kinzinger joined the Feb. 5 video conference of the anti-Trump group and spoke for about five minutes, a spokeswoman told Reuters. But the congressman wants to “reform the party from within,” she said. He has recently formed a new political action committee to support Republican primary challengers running against pro-Trump House Republicans such as Matt Gaetz, of Florida, and Marjorie Taylor Greene, of Georgia. What's tougher -- reforming a party you've lost, or starting a new one?

“Let’s not kid ourselves; we are not going to change this party,” said Jim Glassman, a former undersecretary of state under George W. Bush. That sure is how it looks right now.

Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn laughed when asked by Reuters about a possible third party. “More power to ‘em,” he said. Cornyn, however, predicted shared opposition to President Biden’s agenda will hold Republicans together. He said he hopes life in the Republican Party will return to something more normal in Trump’s absence. Yeah, I don't see that. I don't think Cornyn knows where this party has gone, right under his nose.

It is most likely going to end up like what happened to the WHIG party back in the 1800’s and there will be a split like with the Republican and Know Nothing Party...

The Know Nothing Faction AKA Trump Political Base will drive itself out of existence while a more moderate party formerly known as the Republican Party will rebuild itself to run against the Democrat Party...

What is AMAZING is how Trump voting base are willing to allow this to happen and make sure Democrats win in the future, and it make me wonder if this was Trump plan from the start to destroy the GOP and have a one party system ruling this country for a period of time?
Makes no sense why Democrats are trying to make sure that Trump cannot seek public office again since by your gibberish, it would ensure sweeping Democrat victories.

Obviously, they are just as scared as you are.

Yeah, sure I am scared of your Messiah...

Republicans should be more scared about fools like you that vote for them seeing you are delusional and believe Trump truly cares about you...

Also the thread is not about me but about the topic Mac wrote about but as usual you can not formulate any opinion because if you did then maybe for once you would think for yourself while not being a borg like drone for Trump!
 
The plan here (at least at the moment) is to chart and catalogue the progress (if any) of a new third party proposed by Republicans and former Republicans who are horrified by the trajectory the party has taken over the last five years.


So, two random thoughts and questions:

First, and perhaps most importantly, we all know that starting, growing and maintaining a viable third party would be a massive, herculean task. Odds certainly are that it won't stick and will most likely go down in history as a temporary, inter-party squabble. The linked article does go into what it would take for this effort to be successful, though, including finding and rallying around a charismatic figure. Without such a figure, this will never get off the ground. Do you agree or disagree?

Second, speaking of charismatic figures (for better or worse), Trump now has so much direct and indirect control of the GOP that it's telling that anti-Trumpers would even be talking about this. To me, that says that they've given up trying to grab the party back from him. If Trump gets the GOP, he gets all of the absolutely critical existing national infrastructure that goes with it. Is that what has happened? Have the anti-Trumpers ceded the party to Trump?

Interesting points in the linked piece:

Kinzinger joined the Feb. 5 video conference of the anti-Trump group and spoke for about five minutes, a spokeswoman told Reuters. But the congressman wants to “reform the party from within,” she said. He has recently formed a new political action committee to support Republican primary challengers running against pro-Trump House Republicans such as Matt Gaetz, of Florida, and Marjorie Taylor Greene, of Georgia. What's tougher -- reforming a party you've lost, or starting a new one?

“Let’s not kid ourselves; we are not going to change this party,” said Jim Glassman, a former undersecretary of state under George W. Bush. That sure is how it looks right now.

Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn laughed when asked by Reuters about a possible third party. “More power to ‘em,” he said. Cornyn, however, predicted shared opposition to President Biden’s agenda will hold Republicans together. He said he hopes life in the Republican Party will return to something more normal in Trump’s absence. Yeah, I don't see that. I don't think Cornyn knows where this party has gone, right under his nose.

It is most likely going to end up like what happened to the WHIG party back in the 1800’s and there will be a split like with the Republican and Know Nothing Party...

The Know Nothing Faction AKA Trump Political Base will drive itself out of existence while a more moderate party formerly known as the Republican Party will rebuild itself to run against the Democrat Party...

What is AMAZING is how Trump voting base are willing to allow this to happen and make sure Democrats win in the future, and it make me wonder if this was Trump plan from the start to destroy the GOP and have a one party system ruling this country for a period of time?
Makes no sense why Democrats are trying to make sure that Trump cannot seek public office again since by your gibberish, it would ensure sweeping Democrat victories.

Obviously, they are just as scared as you are.

Yeah, sure I am scared of your Messiah...

Republicans should be more scared about fools like you that vote for them seeing you are delusional and believe Trump truly cares about you...

Also the thread is not about me but about the topic Mac wrote about but as usual you can not formulate any opinion because if you did then maybe for once you would think for yourself while not being a borg like drone for Trump!
So, why does Trump scare you then? I, for example, would have been delighted for the Beast to run again and no one in the GOP would have tried to stop it. Hell, I might have registered Democrat just to vote for her in the primaries.
 
Not much chance of a third party growing out of the Republican Party at this point. Just a bit of a purge of anti-Trumpers and closet Democrats.

We'll see how many The Lincoln Project takes down with them.
 
This happened in the UK back in the 80s. Labour moderates were concerned that Labour were lurching to the Left and they set up the Social Democrat party. They attracted some support and had electoral success. They also had some labour big hitters which gave them credibility.

After a while it was clear that they were fighting the Liberal party and the two merged and formed the Liberal Democrats , which was pretty much the Liberal party.

Their aim was to break the mould and they didnt do that. Labour eventually had a purge which culminated with the likes of Blair taking control. They did split the left centre vote though and that helped thatcher maintain power. That wasnt the intention..

I suspect any new party would mainly just split the right wing vote and reinforce the Dems grip.

You need to sort out the funding of your elections so that it is easier to set up parties and run for elections. That would reduce the influence of donors and help to clean up politics. Maybe set limits on election expenses.

The binary nature of your houses is not conducive to co-operation. A senate with a few Greens,BLMs or Regional parties and Independents would break down the partisanship.

For example it would make impeachment a real threat because you would not have one party directly opposed to the other one.
 
When Trump is acquitted later this weekend, I expect him to come out swinging with more lies about election fraud and more attacks on our democracy. Effectively, he would have been given carte blanche permission by his party to do so.

Will Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse, Susan Collins or Lisa Murkowski have the power of conviction to leave the party, become independent or join a third party? I wouldn’t count on it.

The Republicans will have surrendered to the Trumpist wing of the party. The new face of the party will be Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley and the Trump family.

On the outside chance a new third party is created, it will need to find their own billionaires to compete with the Mercers, Adelsons and many others. 63 billionaires supported Trump.


Can a third party be created via a grass movements from the remnants of the old “moderate“ wing of the party? Something like the Tea Party?

I have my doubts.

Few people get excited over moderates for one thing. Further, these people who may form a third party will have profound differences. Mitt Romney would be a model moderate but who the hell wants a return of neocons like Bill Krystol?

I don’t discount a grass roots movement of angry centrists consisting of Republicans and Democrats one day.

I expect the Trumpist wing of Republican party to consolidate its position.

Who knows how long it will last.
 
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