Is it fair to have pit bulls around other people?

[Coyote]

The golden retreiver, due to the sheer popularity of them, are the dog that bites people the most.

Now FATAL attacks on humans is a different story.....rotweillers and pitbulls swap the #1 position for fatal attacks every few years.

DOG BITE LAW - Statistics about dog bites in the USA and elsewhere

In terms of fatal attacks, the number of those resulting from all dogs of any breed is minuscule. Fatal attacks from humans far out number those from dogs.

How do you feel about laws regarding violent breeds of humans?

Well...since most serial killers are white....and I'm white....I wouldn't feel real good about it.

 

[Ravi]

Someone could find a wolf pup or a grizzley cub and raise it to be a well adjusted and friendly family pet.

It doesn't make it a good idea.

I remember reading about some idiot in Coconut Grove that had an alligator as a pet. Never killed him, lived in a pit in his living room...but as far as I know he never took him out on a leash.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

In terms of fatal attacks, the number of those resulting from all dogs of any breed is minuscule. Fatal attacks from humans far out number those from dogs.

How do you feel about laws regarding violent breeds of humans?

Well...since most serial killers are white....and I'm white....I wouldn't feel real good about it.

Most murderers are black.

The only reason most serial killers are white is because blacks aren't smart enough to evade detection for the same thing, although many of them do commit serial homicide, especially when they have access to crack and form gangs to feed their drug habits.

 

[Anguille]

Not at all true. How the dog reacts depends very much on the individual dog and it's flight/fight response - to some extent that is breed influenced, but it is also very much matter of how the dog was raised.

Just as an example many of Vick's dogs were very undersocialized and abused, and scared to death of new things and people - this fear showed itself as the dog shutting down, running away and avoidance not "attacking".

Coyote, You've written some very informative and well researched posts in this thread. Apparently some people have neglected to read them and persist in spreading wives tales about dogs. I think this says more about these people than it does about dogs.

Thank you Mrs. K Sadly, I think you are right.

It would also appear to be that those people looking at assessing risk might not have a good grasp of numbers.

With a population of something around 5 million pitbulls, you would expect the streets of this country to be flowing with blood and gobbets and dismembered body parts and people staggering around with huge holes and punctures and missing bits and pieces and....

Yet, according to a report I previously linked to, it comes down to

4 Pitbull fatalities a year.
10 maimings a year.
Out of 5 million pitbulls.

Now, for comparison, lets look at automobiles.

•There are more than six million car accidents each year in the United States.
•A person dies in a car accident every 12 minutes and each year car crashes kill 40,000 people.
•The leading cause of death for individuals between 2 and 34 years old is motor vehicle crashes.
•Someone is injured by a car crash every 14 seconds and about two million of the people injured in car accidents each year suffer permanent injuries.

Out of approx 254.4 million cars in the U.S. (as of 2007)



Mrs. K....this brings up a very important question.....









Should cars should be allowed around people?

Should people even be allowed around people?

You've got it right about some people's inability to access risk. They base their opinions not on facts and numbers but on emotions and a need to scapegoat.

The sad thing is that not only do they call for unnecessary laws, their fear mongering about pit bulls actually increases the risk of danger from any dog with their foolish claims that certain breeds are totally trustworthy while others are evil. They want to ignore that the way a dog is raised and cared for is the major indicator by far in how safe it will be around other dogs and humans.
Their spreading of misinformation is a disservice to the public.

 

[Coyote]

How do you feel about laws regarding violent breeds of humans?

Well...since most serial killers are white....and I'm white....I wouldn't feel real good about it.

Most murderers are black.

The only reason most serial killers are white is because blacks aren't smart enough to evade detection for the same thing, although many of them do commit serial homicide, especially when they have access to crack and form gangs to feed their drug habits.

Look at it this way (using your sort of logic).

Mauling dog attacks on humans are the worst type of fatal dog-crime.
Pitbulls make up the bulk of those attacks
Therefore we need laws regarding "violent" breeds of dog.

Serial killers make up the worst type of fatal human-crime.
White males make up the bulk of those attacks.
Therefore we need laws regarding "violent" breeds of dog.

But it gets even better....

Just as it's difficult to define "pitbull" (a category that encompasses a dozen or so different breeds) it is difficult to define "race".

What is black and what is white? Originally the definition was political, not scientific.

What are mixed race people?

In addition, dogs have long been selectively bred for purposes that shaped not only their bodies but their temperment characteristics.

Humans have not been subject to that sort of selection.

and...if that weren't enough (I'm throwing in the Ginzu knives here) - look at violent crime stats around the world.

The country with the lowest murder rate? Senegal (west Africa) 0.33, also low are Morocco, Mali and Mauratania (lower than the expected Scandinavian countries and of course lower than the US). Now, the laws defining murder and homicide differ, and the conclusions drawn from difficult to compare data aren't always accurate and leave a lot unsaid, but what the hey...that pretty much is what this entire debate is about.

 

[☭proletarian☭]

I'm not the one advocating breed-specific laws, twit.

Also, no meaningful numbers come from Africa. There's no real law or civilization in the continent.

 

[Coyote]

Should people even be allowed around people?

You've got it right about some people's inability to access risk. They base their opinions not on facts and numbers but on emotions and a need to scapegoat.

The sad thing is that not only do they call for unnecessary laws, their fear mongering about pit bulls actually increases the risk of danger from any dog with their foolish claims that certain breeds are totally trustworthy while others are evil. They want to ignore that the way a dog is raised and cared for is the major indicator by far in how safe it will be around other dogs and humans.
Their spreading of misinformation is a disservice to the public.

Yup - because that sort of legislation does nothing to really address dangerous dogs and stupid people who willfully create aggression. This year it's Pitbulls, next year it will be Canis Panther ...

 

[manifold]

Someone could find a wolf pup or a grizzley cub and raise it to be a well adjusted and friendly family pet.

It doesn't make it a good idea.

Wolves and Grizzly bears are not domesticated animals. No comparison.

Bullshit.

Dogs once weren't domesticated either. Do you know how they became domesticated?

I bet you do. It's called BREEDING.

Now tell me again how breeding doesn't matter.

 

[hjmick]

Depends on the pitbull. And the owner.

 

[manifold]

Not necessarily - any large and strong dog, including a retriever can inflict a tremendously damaging bite if it doesn't have bite inhibition and that is something a dog learns through socialization with other puppies and from people.

Ever seen what the family retriever can do to a sheep?

Still doesn't compare with the jaw strength of a pit bull.

Why do you think all dog fighting dogs are pits? Because they'd rip the throat out of a retreiver in new york minute, that's why.

Just because a dog like a pitbull can inflict a seriously damaging bite does not diminish the damage any large powerful breed of dog can do when it bites.

Do a bit of research before you make statements like "all fighting dogs are pits". There are a number of breeds bred for fighting and bred for attacking and killing things. Many terriers fall into that category and, there are many pits who's heritage is far removed from fighting and are quite sociable with other dogs.

Tell me again how many of Vick's dogs weren't pit bulls?


Oh yeah, none.

 

[manifold]

I saw a special about dog breeding a little while ago that was pretty interesting. Nothing specific about pit bulls, it was mostly about drug and bomb sniffing dogs. Basically what they said is that the canine genetic code is unique in the animal kingdom in how easily manipulated it is. It only takes 2 or 3 generations to geneticaly engineer pretty much exactly what you're looking for.

Yet there are still those who insist that breeding doesn't matter.

 

[ron scott]

Pit bulls are nice dogs, nice to kill you with!!

dogs are animals and animals don't think like people

dogs are a big swept under the carpet issue

if you get bit, then it's an issue, then people learn, and pay!! should pay!

I quit my last job because of dogs, never had much problem with little dogs, of course.

I was doing deliveries and ran into too many loose dogs, people are often too careless with their dogs. I was lucky and always managed to get back in the truck in time or have a big enough package to put between me and the dog. But after a few months of that i seen the writing on the wall and quit.
The company I worked for had no policy to deal with the problem either, I guess they would rather lose a driver than lose a customer. And a lot of the dog owners were quite cavalier about the whole thing, they may have even been secretly enjoying watching their dog scare the hell out of someone. never had time for mace, besides the company didn't want a lawsuit because I sprayed mace at someones dog, but I carried it anyway. But when an incident arose I first high tailed it!!

LOL.......... dogs! of course it's not the dogs fault, it's the owner (watch: dog whisperer) and their should be stiffer fines or something!! because some dogs Are deadly weapons!

 

[uscitizen]

The law should be crystal clear. Dog owners are fully responsible for their pets actions and it should be handled by the system without the aggreived party having to get a lawyer and file suit.

Present bills to the police and the pet owner pays, goes to jail or fights it in criminal court.
Since the dog obviously commited a crime or there would be no issue.

Homeowners ins should cover all dogs but only if the ins co was notified of the dog. And insurance rates should be based on risk. ie breed and number of dogs.
Size and breed are factors in how much damage a dog can do.

 

[Anguille]

I'm not the one advocating breed-specific laws, twit.

Also, no meaningful numbers come from Africa. There's no real law or civilization in the continent.

Yet you, and those advocating for breed specific laws are operating on the same principal.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I have a grand Idea.

If the breed is legal and you think it is dangerous dont go near the dog.

 

[Anguille]

Should people even be allowed around people?

You've got it right about some people's inability to access risk. They base their opinions not on facts and numbers but on emotions and a need to scapegoat.

The sad thing is that not only do they call for unnecessary laws, their fear mongering about pit bulls actually increases the risk of danger from any dog with their foolish claims that certain breeds are totally trustworthy while others are evil. They want to ignore that the way a dog is raised and cared for is the major indicator by far in how safe it will be around other dogs and humans.
Their spreading of misinformation is a disservice to the public.

Yup - because that sort of legislation does nothing to really address dangerous dogs and stupid people who willfully create aggression. This year it's Pitbulls, next year it will be Canis Panther ...

It's sickening the perverted things some people will do to dogs in order to use them as weapons. And discouraging how stupid some people are to hate and falsely label an entire breed because that breed is currently popular with animal abusers.

 

[Anguille]

Someone could find a wolf pup or a grizzley cub and raise it to be a well adjusted and friendly family pet.

It doesn't make it a good idea.

Wolves and Grizzly bears are not domesticated animals. No comparison.

Bullshit.

Dogs once weren't domesticated either. Do you know how they became domesticated?

I bet you do. It's called BREEDING.

Now tell me again how breeding doesn't matter.

Wrong. They became domesticated through evolution. I suppose you believe in Intelligent Design as well.

 

[Anguille]

Still doesn't compare with the jaw strength of a pit bull.

Why do you think all dog fighting dogs are pits? Because they'd rip the throat out of a retreiver in new york minute, that's why.

Just because a dog like a pitbull can inflict a seriously damaging bite does not diminish the damage any large powerful breed of dog can do when it bites.

Do a bit of research before you make statements like "all fighting dogs are pits". There are a number of breeds bred for fighting and bred for attacking and killing things. Many terriers fall into that category and, there are many pits who's heritage is far removed from fighting and are quite sociable with other dogs.

Tell me again how many of Vick's dogs weren't pit bulls?


Oh yeah, none.

Since almost all of Vick's dogs were rehabilitated and adopted as family pets, epic fail on your part.

Define pit bull. How do you determine what dogs are pit bulls and which aren't? If you're going to have breed specific laws you have to be able to be specific about what a pit bull is. How does law enforcement prove a certain dog is a pit bull. Many types of dogs share similar characteristics to the so-called pit bull.

 

[Anguille]

. Basically what they said is that the canine genetic code is unique in the animal kingdom in how easily manipulated it is. It only takes 2 or 3 generations to geneticaly engineer pretty much exactly what you're looking for.

When you have created a dachshund from Great Dane grandparents get back to us.

 

[manifold]

Wolves and Grizzly bears are not domesticated animals. No comparison.

Bullshit.

Dogs once weren't domesticated either. Do you know how they became domesticated?

I bet you do. It's called BREEDING.

Now tell me again how breeding doesn't matter.

Wrong. They became domesticated through evolution. I suppose you believe in Intelligent Design as well.

Yeah, they just naturally evolved to serve humans.

Where do you come up with this shit?