Is it Constitutional to sign a bill without seeing it?

[G.T.]

pdf.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

pdf.

Let me see if I can explain this to you in small words.

The Constitution requires that, after a bill is passed, Congress present it to the president for his signature. This requires them to actually make a hard copy of the bill and take it to the White House. This is the original of the bill, and it has to be signed to become law. Obama was 3500 miles away from that original document when he "signed" it.

Tell me again how he used a pdf.

Please.

 

[American Legacy]

No less constitutional to sign a bill without seeing it as to pass a bill without reading it. LOL

 

[Two Thumbs]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Isn’t technology wonderful? Yes, but is it constitutional?
President Barack Obama, or rather a machine impersonating the president, signed a bill late Thursday extending certain expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law enacted in the wake of September 11.
Obama, 3,725 miles and six time zones removed across the Atlantic Ocean in France at a meeting of G-8 leaders, did not sign the bill personally.
Because directions from Washington to Deauville, France, are tricky (“We could not calculate directions between Washington D.C., and Deauville, France.,” claims Google Maps), an autopen replicated Obama’s signature, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro told ABC News in a statement.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

So a computer is signing, for The President of the United States, b/c he can't be bothered to do so, or it can't wait?

Or is this some time saving device so he can have plausable deniability?

 

[TheBrain]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Isn’t technology wonderful? Yes, but is it constitutional?
President Barack Obama, or rather a machine impersonating the president, signed a bill late Thursday extending certain expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law enacted in the wake of September 11.
Obama, 3,725 miles and six time zones removed across the Atlantic Ocean in France at a meeting of G-8 leaders, did not sign the bill personally.
Because directions from Washington to Deauville, France, are tricky (“We could not calculate directions between Washington D.C., and Deauville, France.,” claims Google Maps), an autopen replicated Obama’s signature, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro told ABC News in a statement.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

this is a toughie QW. On the one hand. I seriously doubt that Obama hadn't read that bill at some point, and it would be impossible to prove he didn't. On the other hand, it is weird that they had an autopen sign it. On the other hand though we sign things electronically everyday.

In the end I'd say no big deal.

 

[Publius1787]

tHE ISSUE IS SOOO 1995
ABC News pointed out that the issue of the constitutionality of the autopen was studied in 1995 and that then-Deputy Attorney General Howard C. Nielson confirmed that using an autopen to sign a bill into law is indeed constitutional.

“We examine the legal understanding of the word ’sign’ at the time the Constitution was drafted and ratified and during the early years of the Republic,” Nielson wrote in an Office of Legal Counsel opinion. “We find that, pursuant to this understanding, a person may sign a document by directing that his signature be affixed to it by another. … Reading the constitutional text in light of this established legal understanding, we conclude that the President need not personally perform the physical act of affixing his signature to a bill to sign it within the meaning of Article I, Section 7 [of the Constitution.]”



Read more: Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

If a deputee political appointee says it it must be true.

 

[Greenbeard]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg5gPnUdbc8]Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer[/ame]

 

[WillowTree]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Isn’t technology wonderful? Yes, but is it constitutional?
President Barack Obama, or rather a machine impersonating the president, signed a bill late Thursday extending certain expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law enacted in the wake of September 11.
Obama, 3,725 miles and six time zones removed across the Atlantic Ocean in France at a meeting of G-8 leaders, did not sign the bill personally.
Because directions from Washington to Deauville, France, are tricky (“We could not calculate directions between Washington D.C., and Deauville, France.,” claims Google Maps), an autopen replicated Obama’s signature, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro told ABC News in a statement.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

demon rat bastards don't need no fucking constitution. didn't you know that?

 

[WillowTree]

No less constitutional to sign a bill without seeing it as to pass a bill without reading it. LOL

 

[Rozman]

I have a different question...Is it constitutional to sign a bill before reading it?
Did the President read any of the 2,000+ pages of the Health Care bill?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Isn’t technology wonderful? Yes, but is it constitutional?
President Barack Obama, or rather a machine impersonating the president, signed a bill late Thursday extending certain expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law enacted in the wake of September 11.
Obama, 3,725 miles and six time zones removed across the Atlantic Ocean in France at a meeting of G-8 leaders, did not sign the bill personally.
Because directions from Washington to Deauville, France, are tricky (“We could not calculate directions between Washington D.C., and Deauville, France.,” claims Google Maps), an autopen replicated Obama’s signature, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro told ABC News in a statement.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

this is a toughie QW. On the one hand. I seriously doubt that Obama hadn't read that bill at some point, and it would be impossible to prove he didn't. On the other hand, it is weird that they had an autopen sign it. On the other hand though we sign things electronically everyday.

In the end I'd say no big deal.

I honestly think it is an interesting question, one that I would love to see resolved. Unfortunately the Obama defenders see this as a direct challenge to their messiah, and take a blindly partisan stance. This is one of the times I would have loved to be wrong.

 

[Rozman]

No less constitutional to sign a bill without seeing it as to pass a bill without reading it. LOL

Ah.Willow you got it in before me...

 

[Mr.Nick]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Isn’t technology wonderful? Yes, but is it constitutional?
President Barack Obama, or rather a machine impersonating the president, signed a bill late Thursday extending certain expiring provisions of the Patriot Act, the anti-terrorism law enacted in the wake of September 11.
Obama, 3,725 miles and six time zones removed across the Atlantic Ocean in France at a meeting of G-8 leaders, did not sign the bill personally.
Because directions from Washington to Deauville, France, are tricky (“We could not calculate directions between Washington D.C., and Deauville, France.,” claims Google Maps), an autopen replicated Obama’s signature, White House spokesman Nick Shapiro told ABC News in a statement.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

Its constitutional but its also highly stupid.


Only a total assclown legislator that doesn't take their job seriously would sign a bill without reading it.

Thats the ultimate sign of disrespect for our constitution and founding principals.

You'd think being a member of congress would be an honor, and with that honor would be a certain integrity that would motivate you to do your job to the best of your abilities...

Nope, not with this new breed to democrat fucks.

You got delusional Nancy Pelosi saying: "we need to pass the bill to see whats inside" like its some fucking fortune cookie or something.

When she said that I almost fell over.

Sure, you can sign a bill without reading it but only a modern progressive liberal would do that because they have no respect for our country - they want what they want and if it sounds good to them they'll fucking sign in on face value.

Obama is a tyrant BTW - he has fun mocking the US and its legislative process by pulling bullshit like this.

He probably runs around the White House at 3am pissing all over everything while laughing uncontrollably like a little girl on a sugar high. "yeah take that Mr. Washington, you enabled people to face oppression. How you like my pee?"

Unfucking believable.

 

[whitehall]

Blame Bush...again. The first thing out of the administration was a whining statement..."the previous administration did it"...but they didn't do it. Bush never signed a bill into law with an auto-pen.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Here is the question you are asking. "Is it ok for a machine to sign a bill in to law." The answer is easily no.

The President cannot give Power of Auttourney to an autopen and delegate SPECIFIC constitutional requirements to a machine. Trust me. If any lawyer finds that information of his client was gathered during the 10 day time perioud he could have it thrown out.

Per post 11 you’re wrong.

And I disagree with him.

That’s nice.

You can disagree the sky is blue, that doesn’t change the fact it is.

Your only next post should be a DOJ memo or document vacating the one in post 11.

Needless to say if this were a republican president doing the some thing, you’d think it perfectly acceptable.

This is a non-issue.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That’s nice.

You can disagree the sky is blue, that doesn’t change the fact it is.

Your only next post should be a DOJ memo or document vacating the one in post 11.

Needless to say if this were a republican president doing the some thing, you’d think it perfectly acceptable.

This is a non-issue.

I bet you think that is clever.

John Woo did a lot of research, some soul searching, and came to the conclusion that, under US law, water boarding is legal. I disagreed with that, as did many people on the left, and not once did anyone on the right try to argue that a memo settled the issue. Yet you, being an absolute genius, see the memo and conclude that unless I can find another memo I am simply wrong. They used to teach logic in schools, I wonder what happened.

FYI, a memo is not the final word on a subject. If you could provide court ruling on the matter it would carry more weight, but even that is not the final word. I would also like to point out that, unlike you, I am not a partisan hack. Provide me an example of any president actually using an autopen to sign a law and I will argue that that law is totally invalid, even if it was a Republican that did it.

 

[TheBrain]

My guess is that Obama will resign the law before this gets to court rendering the issue moot, but I would love to see this challenged.

Barack Obama | Autopen Signature | Patriot Act Extension | The Daily Caller

I do have a prediction though, all the Obamabots will line up in defense of this.

this is a toughie QW. On the one hand. I seriously doubt that Obama hadn't read that bill at some point, and it would be impossible to prove he didn't. On the other hand, it is weird that they had an autopen sign it. On the other hand though we sign things electronically everyday.

In the end I'd say no big deal.

I honestly think it is an interesting question, one that I would love to see resolved. Unfortunately the Obama defenders see this as a direct challenge to their messiah, and take a blindly partisan stance. This is one of the times I would have loved to be wrong.

They are almost to a man , and woman, partisan idiots.

I think I could make a case though that an electronic signature from a secure source is valid. Let's say they faxed the bill to France and Obama read it and signed it and faxed it back. Is that valid?

This COULD have been a great discussion had the hacks stayed out of it.