Is Israel bad for the Jews?

[Billo_Really]

If you are over 50 and were raised in a Jewish household, you either heard the question — “but is it good for the Jews?” — explicitly asked numerous times or were subtly encouraged to think the question to yourself.

It reflects a group-centered concern born of the memory of anti-Semitic hostility and a seemingly unending vulnerability, and it can apply to almost any public action: federal or local legislation, cultural trends, foreign policy decisions, etc.

After WWII, most Jews assumed Zionism and the state of Israel were good for the Jews. But 6 decades later, we now have a mountain of evidence to answer that question more comprehensively.

According to Jewish scholars,

“the slaughter of Palestinian civilians and the Dresden-like reduction to rubble of large parts of Gaza by Israel’s military forces in the name of its own citizens’ security has exposed the hypocrisy that lies at the heart of Israel’s dealings with the Palestinians. Israel’s claim to the right of self-defense in order to prevent its victims’ emergence from under its occupation is the ultimate expression of chutzpa.”
- Henry Siegman, president of the U.S./Middle East Project and former national director of the American Jewish Congress.

“too many Israelis seem to believe - indeed, to take absolutely for granted - that they have the God-given right to occupy, suppress, disenfranchise and displace non-Jews … in Israel.”
- Siegman again

That last one reminds me of a few Israeli members at this particular website.

A couple more comments, then a final thought on Monday's show...

“We are alarmed by the extreme, racist dehumanization of Palestinians in Israeli society. … In Israel, politicians and pundits in The Times of Israel and The Jerusalem Post have called openly for genocide of Palestinians and right-wing Israelis are adopting Neo-Nazi insignia.”
- Holocaust survivors and children of survivors [in] a notice in the New York Times

“This now is Israel, a country … where imposing collective punishment of innocents is the main point, whose elected officials pine openly for concentration camps and genocide. … Hyper-nationalistic, loaded with nuclear weapons, deeply racist, persuaded that opposition to it is derived from anti-Semitism, feeling that the Holocaust gives it license to do whatever it wants and that the normal rules of international conduct will never apply to it.”
- Scott McConnell, the founding editor of the American Conservative

Here's a final thought, during Rabin's time, anti-Semitism was down, during Netanfuckyou's time, anti-Semitism is up. Conclusion: Israeli policies foment Jewish hatred.

Therefore, the single biggest threat to Jews on planet earth, is Zionism.

 

[Daniyel]

I'm a Jew, the answer to the title: NO, Israel is heaven on earth.

 

[MJB12741]

HUH? Israel Has been great for the Jews. Also great for the Palestinians. Problem is they still don't know it. It's due to their Palestinian mentality. So sad only Jordan's Black September resulted in a lasting peace from the Palestinians. Let us join together & hope Israel doesn't doesn't have to treat them like thieir own Arab brothers had to for peace from them. Don't you agree?

 

[Beelzebub]

Zionism is clearly recognised as the most destructive political movement for Jews, ever.

Greater than Nero.
Greater than Hitler.
Worse even, than Catholicism.

Non-Zionist Jews are utterly ashamed to be associated with the place, but they are forced into this by the Zionist agenda to always throw Jews in front of any criticism, as human shields.

It is hard to believe that there are people in the world as stupid as Daniyel presents himself on such issues.
He is either entirely non self-aware, or is not genuine.

Take your pick.

 

[Indeependent]

Israel has been terrible for the Jews.
We need another Inquisition or Holocaust to relive the good old days.

Any other stupid questions?

 

[Crystalclear]

No, Israel is and has always been good for the Jews.

 

[Indeependent]

Zionism is clearly recognised as the most destructive political movement for Jews, ever.

Greater than Nero.
Greater than Hitler.
Worse even, than Catholicism.

Non-Zionist Jews are utterly ashamed to be associated with the place, but they are forced into this by the Zionist agenda to always throw Jews in front of any criticism, as human shields.

It is hard to believe that there are people in the world as stupid as Daniyel presents himself on such issues.
He is either entirely non self-aware, or is not genuine.

Take your pick.

As an aside, are you embarrassed by ISIS?

 

[toastman]

Zionism is clearly recognised as the most destructive political movement for Jews, ever.

Greater than Nero.
Greater than Hitler.
Worse even, than Catholicism.

Non-Zionist Jews are utterly ashamed to be associated with the place, but they are forced into this by the Zionist agenda to always throw Jews in front of any criticism, as human shields.

It is hard to believe that there are people in the world as stupid as Daniyel presents himself on such issues.
He is either entirely non self-aware, or is not genuine.

Take your pick.

This post is up there with some of the most fucked up posts ever written here.

Take a look at this folks: according to Beezle thinks that Israel is worse then Hitler was for Jews

 

[toastman]

Zionism is clearly recognised as the most destructive political movement for Jews, ever.

Greater than Nero.
Greater than Hitler.
Worse even, than Catholicism.

Non-Zionist Jews are utterly ashamed to be associated with the place, but they are forced into this by the Zionist agenda to always throw Jews in front of any criticism, as human shields.

It is hard to believe that there are people in the world as stupid as Daniyel presents himself on such issues.
He is either entirely non self-aware, or is not genuine.

Take your pick.

What makes you say that Daniyel is stupid. Give us examples of several posts of his that led you to this conclusion....

 

[MJB12741]

Zionism is clearly recognised as the most destructive political movement for Jews, ever.

Greater than Nero.
Greater than Hitler.
Worse even, than Catholicism.

Non-Zionist Jews are utterly ashamed to be associated with the place, but they are forced into this by the Zionist agenda to always throw Jews in front of any criticism, as human shields.

It is hard to believe that there are people in the world as stupid as Daniyel presents himself on such issues.
He is either entirely non self-aware, or is not genuine.

Take your pick.

I love the part about non Zionist Jews being ashamed to associate with Israel. I doubt that anyone here despises Zionists more than me. What kind of people make peace offerings to Palestinians, build a security fence & concede land to them so they can remain in Israel. Want peace? First this entire damn ZIONIST agenda has to go & Israel must learn to treat the Palestinians with the surrounding Arab country love, justice & respect they are so well accustomed to, and so well deserve.

 

[Billo_Really]

The numbers don't lie. Israel is losing support from Jews around the world.

For decades, the Jewish community was generally united in its support for Israel. Today, a growing number of American Jews, though still devoted to Israel, struggle with the lack of progress toward peace with the Palestinians. Many feel that AIPAC does not speak for them.

The Pew Center’s survey found that only thirty-eight per cent of American Jews believe that the Israeli government is sincerely pursuing peace;

forty-four per cent believe that the construction of new settlements damages Israel’s national security.

In a Gallup poll in late July, only a quarter of Americans under the age of thirty thought that Israel’s actions in Gaza were justified.

And it just gets worse!

Israel Losing Support from Its Biggest Ally: American Evangelical Christians

Evangelical leaders on both sides of the divide on Israel agree that members of the millennial generation do not share their parents’ passion for the Jewish state; many are seeking some form of evenhandedness when approaching the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

In June 2011, the Pew Research Center conducted a survey …. A majority of American evangelical leaders (49%) expressed neutrality when asked if they sympathize more with Israelis or with Palestinians. Thirty percent expressed support for Israelis, 13% for the Palestinians.

Around the world, twice as many people have a negative opinion of Israel, than those with a positive opinion.

A global poll in and about several countries, conducted for the BBC long before the latest strife in Gaza, reported that negative views of Israel’s influence in the world outweighed positive ones by more than two to one

This is a direct result of Zionist bullshit.

 

[Daniyel]

Influence to the world? Lame.

 

[Billo_Really]

Influence to the world? Lame.

It's "on" the world, not "to" the world.

The only thing that's lame, is your comprehension.

What that graph says, is the world thinks Israel is one fucked up country. Why is that? Just look at the company you keep...............Pakistan, Iran, North Korea. In the world community, that's your neighborhood and you have no one to blame, but yourselves! You did this to you.

It's time to embrace the horror.

 

[Kondor3]

Is Israel bad for the Jews?

What a grand joke to wake-up to in the morning !!!

 

[Snouter]

Jews are by definition racist. Zionism is an international form of the racism. If racism is good, why do zionists deny zionism is exactly like nazism?

 

[Daniyel]

Influence to the world? Lame.

It's "on" the world, not "to" the world.

The only thing that's lame, is your comprehension.

What that graph says, is the world thinks Israel is one fucked up country. Why is that? Just look at the company you keep...............Pakistan, Iran, North Korea. In the world community, that's your neighborhood and you have no one to blame, but yourselves! You did this to you.

It's time to embrace the horror.

Since the poll is % of respondents* whether a country's influence on the world is [Israel on the world] is mainly negative, in other words you can say that those surveyed in Israel think that the influence from Israel outside is mainly negative, does it mean Israel is bad for the Jews? does it mean ANY Jews were actually surveyed? nope.
Its another crap posted from The Economist, probably the bored people reading their magazine on flights.
Lame Billo, you can keep wiggling your ass to the voice of anti-Semites all day long and try to reach your ridiculous claims out of everything irrelevant, I've seen your posts for quite a while, you made ZERO points, at all, stench of hatred is the best you can do anyway.

A global poll in and about several countries, conducted for the BBC long before the latest strife in Gaza, reported that negative views of Israel’s influence in the world outweighed positive ones by more than two to one (see chart 1). In aggregate, Americans saw Israel favourably; Europeans did not. But plenty of Americans worry about Israel’s reputation. Barack Obama has fretted about his country’s “limited” ability to manage the “international fallout” were a Palestinian state no longer within reach. Delegitimisation, says Einat Wilf, a former Israeli parliamentarian and one of the authors of a three-year, as-yet-unpublished study of the topic at the Jewish People Policy Institute (JPPI) in Jerusalem, is becoming “a strategic threat”.

Israel and the world Us and them The Economist

 

[Indeependent]

If comitting suicide makes me popular I'm more than happy to annoy people.

 

[Billo_Really]

Since the poll is % of respondents* whether a country's influence on the world is [Israel on the world] is mainly negative, in other words you can say that those surveyed in Israel think that the influence from Israel outside is mainly negative, does it mean Israel is bad for the Jews?

Hell yes! Is what North Korea does, bad for North Koreans? Is what Iran does, bad for Iranian's? Of coarse it's bad for the Jews. That's why Israel is losing Jewish support around the world. Jews don't want to be associated with a pariah state, such as Israel.

does it mean ANY Jews were actually surveyed? nope.

It doesn't mean they weren't.

Its another crap posted from The Economist, probably the bored people reading their magazine on flights.

Since you don't have a valid argument, you choose to kill the messenger. Smear the source. Unfortunately for you, ad hominems are not valid rebuttals.

Lame Billo, you can keep wiggling your ass to the voice of anti-Semites all day long and try to reach your ridiculous claims out of everything irrelevant, I've seen your posts for quite a while, you made ZERO points, at all, stench of hatred is the best you can do anyway.

And there's another popular response from you people, calling anyone who criticizes Israel as anti-Semitic. The problem is, you've played that card so much, it's just empty rhetoric now.

It's (criticism of Israel) just going to get worse. Young people today don't have the same blind loyalty their parents had towards Israel and are seeing things from a more evenhanded perspective. Support for Israel is in its decline and your country will get its ass whipped if it doesn't change its ways. If not militarily, certainly economically.

 

[Beelzebub]

Jews are by definition racist. Zionism is an international form of the racism. If racism is good, why do zionists deny zionism is exactly like nazism?

Jews are NOT by definition racist. Jews are people, and have all sorts of opinions, as you would expect of a religion and culture of tens of millions.

ZIONISM is a freaky and very new political movement, which is 99.9% (or something close) racist, which Jews choose to support, and Jews choose to oppose.

There are more Christian Zionists than there are Jewish ones.

Zionism purposely tries to steal Judaism to hide behind. Don't fall for that trick. When people choose to do bad stuff, they will find all sorts of excuses why it "wasn't really them" but "they were doing it for a special reason" like religion.

Its not true. Bad stuff is usually done because it is profitable, or makes the evil-doer feel important.

 

[Daniyel]

Israel is great for the Jews, great for the Israelis, and this stupid "poll" is not even close to reflect ONE of the million aspects to valuate a state, like it or not, Israel is the best thing that ever happened to the Jews, and I don't want to even think what could possibly happen to the Jews without Israel, Do you think anyone would be helping out the Jews in Iraq? I don't, and we can see what happened to the Yizidies, I don't want to continue this stupid debate, Israel is great for the Jews, and great for the Israelis, period.