Is four extra years of high school worth going into debt for?

[JohnDB]

It is worse than you think! When I taught in FL 20 years ago, the cost per student was over $10,000. Do you know how much the school had per student? About $4500.

The cost per student is also skewed by special education students. I have had students that were a cost to the school in the $100,000 range.

So where is the money going?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Free college is for those who can't teach or have lost their MOJO for teaching....
And the same applies to the students. The lack of tuition means these kids aren't really dedicated to getting an education and are simply there to placate somebody. (Not always but the vast majority this applies to)

Then this Student Loan program has massive issues. Kids are going to school to learn circus and acrobatics and going back home as an unemployed and unemployable clown.

And the degrees that qualify for student loans are way past the point of sanity. Remove ALL the foodservice and hospitality degrees from the loan program. No more Barista degrees. (It's only for kids to work in this industry anyway)

Then let's lose all the liberal arts programs as well from the loan program...no more degrees in 16th century French Art and Literature.

And let's remove stock market trading, Real Estate, and truck driving as well...(too many scammers)

Electronics are taught only from an engineering standpoint...anything else is something else and a scam.

Same thing with CS courses....teach programming languages and IT courses of course....but since when has using Windows become a complete college degree?

And as far as Business Management degrees.....let's get the course requirements MORE STANDARDIZED than what is currently being done. Besides sitting around and just talking about businesses...have courses and true testing in leveraged assets, employee relations and utilization, business law, finance, economics, accounting, marketing successes and failures....things of this nature. Not "Email basics and effective communication ".

There's so much garbage being sold as a college degree anymore it's unethical.

You do realize that there is a lot involved in the foodservice and hospitality industry that would benefit to hold a degree. That degree encompasses management and business classes.

Where will you get teachers for subjects like math and science classes. which are liberal arts, if you eliminate those programs?

I have never seen a degree in stock market trading, real estate, or truck driving. The latter two are taught in community colleges and are required for licensing.

What electronics classes are you referring to? I know of no classes that are not engineering already.

Using Windows is not a college degree. Where did you dream that up?

Business classes are standardized by the accrediting organization. Why do you think they are not?

I think it is readily apparent from your comments that you have a few examples but no experience in the education field to realize that someone is pulling your leg.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So where is the money going?

Buses, fuel, and drivers, administration in the schools and in the district level. people to meet federal and state, guidelines, special education programs, athletics, etc. There is also building maintenance, maintenance personnel, new facilities, and buying land for new schools. In other words, lots of expenses that are independent of the actual number of students.

Teacher salaries is another fly in the soup. If your school is all brand-new teachers, your funding may be in excess of teacher salaries. If you have a senior faculty making twice the salary of a newbie, you will be losing money!

It's a tough job, and that is why a master's degree is needed to be a school administrator.

 

[Raynine]

If you're saying bad homes causes ADHD you need to understand it a little better. That's the dumbest thing I have seen today.

If not, explain your reasoning, please.

Did you forget the "Great Society? Do you think single parenthood has no psychological effect on children?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Did you forget the "Great Society? Do you think single parenthood has no psychological effect on children?

The "Great Society" started when I was about 7 years old. My grandsons were born in the 2000s and both suffered from ADHD and their parents were married. My granddaughter had to have speech therapy and an IEP due to a medical condition. Her parents were married, and both served in the Army. ADHD has zero to do with single-parent homes, and I defy you to prove otherwise.

 

[JohnDB]

You do realize that there is a lot involved in the foodservice and hospitality industry that would benefit to hold a degree. That degree encompasses management and business classes.

Where will you get teachers for subjects like math and science classes. which are liberal arts, if you eliminate those programs?

I have never seen a degree in stock market trading, real estate, or truck driving. The latter two are taught in community colleges and are required for licensing.

What electronics classes are you referring to? I know of no classes that are not engineering already.

Using Windows is not a college degree. Where did you dream that up?

Business classes are standardized by the accrediting organization. Why do you think they are not?

I think it is readily apparent from your comments that you have a few examples but no experience in the education field to realize that someone is pulling your leg.

Ummmm....I wish someone was pulling my leg. If only....
These classes and degrees are commonly available at colleges in the South East and somehow fully qualified for the Federal Student Loan program.

STEM degrees I fully support for having Federal loans and etc for funding. But all those degrees I've mentioned i have personally witnessed being part of Federal Funding and students being issued degrees in.

Just because you haven't personally witnessed someone coming out of a college that issues a worthless degree doesn't mean that they don't exist and are still existing.

Business classes might be "accredited" but so are degrees in Circus and acrobatics. Accreditation is meaningless anymore...especially when one understands the accrediting organization. (Propaganda creates a false belief of importance)

Today most business majors can't tell you anything about how to get a company ready for an IPO or even the difference between an IPO or a DPO. And all these degrees are "accredited "? There's a problem right there.

 

[jwoodie]

The "Great Society" started when I was about 7 years old. My grandsons were born in the 2000s and both suffered from ADHD and their parents were married. My granddaughter had to have speech therapy and an IEP due to a medical condition. Her parents were married, and both served in the Army. ADHD has zero to do with single-parent homes, and I defy you to prove otherwise.

Not all people with lung cancer have smoked. But its is a contributing factor.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

With the Vietnam War, our colleges went to shit. Kids who ten years prior would never have even considered college were filling out applications left and right, hoping to get that 2S deferment from the draft. Colleges were expanding rapidly already, anticipating the Baby Boom, but then with the Vietnam factor thrown in, they couldn't build new buildings fast enough.

If Students Aren't Paid, Graduates Aren't Worth Anything

The fact that young people had to be threatened with death in Vietnam to get them to go to college undeniably proves how unnatural and unmotivating indentured-servitude education is.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I support free public colleges and universities but I would also make it free to the students who qualify under a similar type system in England in which you have to prove your merit to attend.

College Work Is Work Without Pay. No Way Is the Student Free.

 

[Unkotare]

Not to mention all sorts of government funding for building programs and a guaranteed student loan program ballooned to insane levels.

What also has left public education are the skilled trades courses. Things like plumbing, electricity, auto/diesel repair/building, cabinetry/woodworking, and shop classes in general.

Subjects that aren't college material.

There are still trades classes, and many voc schools have long waiting lists.

 

[The Duke]

https://www.britannica.com/technology/Sputnik

Sputnik was a national disaster in the late 1950's that had to be dealt with because the Russians appeared to be getting ahead of us in science and technology. Just twelve years later, we purportedly put a man on the Moon! NASA, our national space agency, brought large groups of former Nazis over here after World Two and whitewashed their Nazi pasts. The US then set about putting those Russians in their place and demonstrated to the world that our college-attending academic superiority was a force for good and no one should mess with us.

Skyrockets in sight, it was a national delight in 1969 when humans launched from America put footprints on the Moon's soil. Grainy images of spacesuits bouncing in Moon dust were transmitted in ancient analog technology to anyone anywhere that had access to the primitive television sets of the day. We never looked back from sending everyone to college. But wait a minute, did we win because colleges were a good idea or because the Nazis were good at building rockets after lobbing them on English cities? Was Wernher Von Braunn one of the "good" Nazis?

You decide, but base your decision on the facts, not on your impulse to get out of debt you took on to send your kid to college.

Carry on,

Ray

It was said if you were to walk into NASA and yell out "Seig Heil!" half the staff would snap to attention.

So where is the money going?

Administrators, student loan lenders, the school board.

 

[Dekster]

Free college is for those who can't teach or have lost their MOJO for teaching....
And the same applies to the students. The lack of tuition means these kids aren't really dedicated to getting an education and are simply there to placate somebody. (Not always but the vast majority this applies to)

Then this Student Loan program has massive issues. Kids are going to school to learn circus and acrobatics and going back home as an unemployed and unemployable clown.

And the degrees that qualify for student loans are way past the point of sanity. Remove ALL the foodservice and hospitality degrees from the loan program. No more Barista degrees. (It's only for kids to work in this industry anyway)

Then let's lose all the liberal arts programs as well from the loan program...no more degrees in 16th century French Art and Literature.

And let's remove stock market trading, Real Estate, and truck driving as well...(too many scammers)

Electronics are taught only from an engineering standpoint...anything else is something else and a scam.

Same thing with CS courses....teach programming languages and IT courses of course....but since when has using Windows become a complete college degree?

And as far as Business Management degrees.....let's get the course requirements MORE STANDARDIZED than what is currently being done. Besides sitting around and just talking about businesses...have courses and true testing in leveraged assets, employee relations and utilization, business law, finance, economics, accounting, marketing successes and failures....things of this nature. Not "Email basics and effective communication ".

There's so much garbage being sold as a college degree anymore it's unethical.

Sure because kids who do their A levels are unmotivated

 

[Unkotare]

STEM degrees are definitely worthwhile.

African American History and most Social Science and Arts degrees are not worth the paper the diplomas are printed on.

People have studied humanities for thousands of years.

 

[rupol2000]

Sputnik was a national disaster in the late 1950's that had to be dealt with because the Russians appeared to be getting ahead of us in science and technology.

This is absolute nonsence. All technologes of USSR was from US. Even agrotechnics. First rocket was v2 from manheten project, automobile Volga was modification of Ford and so on. There were no own technologies in the USSR. This confirmed even by son of Cruschov in his book

 

[Raynine]

This is absolute nonsence. All technologes of USSR was from US. Even agrotechnics. First rocket was v2 from manheten project, automobile Volga was modification of Ford and so on. There were no own technologies in the USSR. This confirmed even by son of Cruschov in his book

I' hoping this was written by an individual who is not a native english speaker and not an American college graduate. But in the future AI will cover for all those missed Covid hours of education at crucial points in brain development. We are in real trouble.

 

[citygator]

YES! College is worth it if you can actually graduate. On average, college graduates have just over $37,000 in student loan debt. For graduates of public universities, it's about $26,000. The payback is well over a million dollars in lifetime earnings. If you are a doctor it's multiple millions, if you go to college to be an underpaid school teacher it is still about $700k.

 

[rupol2000]

I' hoping this was written by an individual who is not a native english speaker and not an American college graduate. But in the future AI will cover for all those missed Covid hours of education at crucial points in brain development. We are in real trouble.

Yes, I am not a native english speaker, but I stop using translaters and dictonaries. It is for my self-training.
I hope it is clear enough what was written, isn't it?

 

[Raynine]

Yes, I am not a native english speaker, but I stop using translaters and dictonaries. It is for my self-training.
I hope it is clear enough what was written, isn't it?

Yes, you are clear. But you are wrong.

 

[Raynine]

YES! College is worth it if you can actually graduate. On average, college graduates have just over $37,000 in student loan debt. For graduates of public universities, it's about $26,000. The payback is well over a million dollars in lifetime earnings. If you are a doctor it's multiple millions, if you go to college to be an underpaid school teacher it is still about $700k.

View attachment 874409

All that proves is that the money and benefits are going to all the wrong people. Doctors are specially trained, they are not liberal arts majors indoctrinated to vote for liberal postmodernism.

 

[Blaster]

YES! College is worth it if you can actually graduate. On average, college graduates have just over $37,000 in student loan debt. For graduates of public universities, it's about $26,000. The payback is well over a million dollars in lifetime earnings. If you are a doctor it's multiple millions, if you go to college to be an underpaid school teacher it is still about $700k.

View attachment 874409

Public school teachers are not underpaid and have great health insurance and summer vacation.