Is four extra years of high school worth going into debt for?

[Raynine]

https://www.britannica.com/technology/Sputnik

Sputnik was a national disaster in the late 1950's that had to be dealt with because the Russians appeared to be getting ahead of us in science and technology. Just twelve years later, we purportedly put a man on the Moon! NASA, our national space agency, brought large groups of former Nazis over here after World Two and whitewashed their Nazi pasts. The US then set about putting those Russians in their place and demonstrated to the world that our college-attending academic superiority was a force for good and no one should mess with us.

Skyrockets in sight, it was a national delight in 1969 when humans launched from America put footprints on the Moon's soil. Grainy images of spacesuits bouncing in Moon dust were transmitted in ancient analog technology to anyone anywhere that had access to the primitive television sets of the day. We never looked back from sending everyone to college. But wait a minute, did we win because colleges were a good idea or because the Nazis were good at building rockets after lobbing them on English cities? Was Wernher Von Braunn one of the "good" Nazis?

You decide, but base your decision on the facts, not on your impulse to get out of debt you took on to send your kid to college.

Carry on,

Ray

 

[fncceo]

At least kids learn things in high school.

 

[Raynine]

At least kids learn things in high school.

Learning may have gone to programming. The state of the world is in crisis.

 

[pknopp]

This does not belong in Education.

 

[fncceo]

Learning may have gone to programming. The state of the world is in crisis.

One thing I did learn in school was, the world has always been in crisis since the beginning of recorded history.

Crisis and catastrophe are the default settings for humanity.

 

[Raynine]

This does not belong in Education.

A perfect example: Cancellation of dangerous thinking.

 

[rampart]

At least kids learn things in high school.

"kids" may not learn much in college, but young adults can get as much from education as they put into it.

 

[Libby von H]

But who KNOWS the cost of education.We had a family member go to school in DC and got a perfectly SHIT non-education

Public Spending per student K-12

 

[Raynine]

But who KNOWS the cost of education.We had a family member go to school in DC and got a perfectly SHIT non-education

Public Spending per student K-12
View attachment 872378

College debt crisis drives more students away from four-year schools

As college costs skyrocket, interest in more affordable alternatives has spiked during the Covid pandemic.

www.cnbc.com

 

[JohnDB]

 

[DGS49]

Prior to the Vietnam debacle, there was an expression in common usage, "college material." When looking at someone as a student at any college, the first question that came to mind was, "Is this kid College Material?" Does he have enough intelligence, maturity, and perseverance to even get a college degree? Does s/he have the sort of intelligence that shows up best in a classroom or office?

With the Vietnam War, our colleges went to shit. Kids who ten years prior would never have even considered college were filling out applications left and right, hoping to get that 2S deferment from the draft. Colleges were expanding rapidly already, anticipating the Baby Boom, but then with the Vietnam factor thrown in, they couldn't build new buildings fast enough.

But guess what? When the Boom ended, they have thousands and thousands of seats to fill. The only way to fill them was to make college easier, to create bullshit majors, compromise grading, build bigger and more posh student unions, and so on.

So in short, it was no longer necessary to be "college material" to get into a college. Right now, if you aren't in the top 25% of your HS class, you are wasting money to go to college. You will end up with a mediocre QPA and a worthless major.

 

[Flash]

STEM degrees are definitely worthwhile.

African American History and most Social Science and Arts degrees are not worth the paper the diplomas are printed on.

 

[Raynine]

Prior to the Vietnam debacle, there was an expression in common usage, "college material." When looking at someone as a student at any college, the first question that came to mind was, "Is this kid College Material?" Does he have enough intelligence, maturity, and perseverance to even get a college degree? Does s/he have the sort of intelligence that shows up best in a classroom or office?

With the Vietnam War, our colleges went to shit. Kids who ten years prior would never have even considered college were filling out applications left and right, hoping to get that 2S deferment from the draft. Colleges were expanding rapidly already, anticipating the Baby Boom, but then with the Vietnam factor thrown in, they couldn't build new buildings fast enough.

But guess what? When the Boom ended, they have thousands and thousands of seats to fill. The only way to fill them was to make college easier, to create bullshit majors, compromise grading, build bigger and more posh student unions, and so on.

So in short, it was no longer necessary to be "college material" to get into a college. Right now, if you aren't in the top 25% of your HS class, you are wasting money to go to college. You will end up with a mediocre QPA and a worthless major.

Everything you say is true and it created a new education industry populated with educators that want those jobs becuase real jobs are hard. So they started drugging kids from bad homes (ADHD) that were essentially casualties of the Great Society so they could concenrate in classrooms. Hey, my kid got a diploma from a liberal arts college. Why is he/she an unhealthy drunk/weed smoker sitting in my basement?

I want that money back from people that did not go to college! You see the problem with that line of thinking?

 

[JohnDB]

Prior to the Vietnam debacle, there was an expression in common usage, "college material." When looking at someone as a student at any college, the first question that came to mind was, "Is this kid College Material?" Does he have enough intelligence, maturity, and perseverance to even get a college degree? Does s/he have the sort of intelligence that shows up best in a classroom or office?

With the Vietnam War, our colleges went to shit. Kids who ten years prior would never have even considered college were filling out applications left and right, hoping to get that 2S deferment from the draft. Colleges were expanding rapidly already, anticipating the Baby Boom, but then with the Vietnam factor thrown in, they couldn't build new buildings fast enough.

But guess what? When the Boom ended, they have thousands and thousands of seats to fill. The only way to fill them was to make college easier, to create bullshit majors, compromise grading, build bigger and more posh student unions, and so on.

So in short, it was no longer necessary to be "college material" to get into a college. Right now, if you aren't in the top 25% of your HS class, you are wasting money to go to college. You will end up with a mediocre QPA and a worthless major.

Not to mention all sorts of government funding for building programs and a guaranteed student loan program ballooned to insane levels.

What also has left public education are the skilled trades courses. Things like plumbing, electricity, auto/diesel repair/building, cabinetry/woodworking, and shop classes in general.

Subjects that aren't college material.

 

[Dekster]

I support free public colleges and universities but I would also make it free to the students who qualify under a similar type system in England in which you have to prove your merit to attend. I include trade schools in that as they are often done at community colleges. We need to get back to teaching trades in high school as well---something more or less killed off by No Child Left Behind

 

[JohnDB]

I support free public colleges and universities but I would also make it free to the students who qualify under a similar type system in England in which you have to prove your merit to attend. I include trade schools in that as they are often done at community colleges. We need to get back to teaching trades in high school as well---something more or less killed off by No Child Left Behind

Free college is for those who can't teach or have lost their MOJO for teaching....
And the same applies to the students. The lack of tuition means these kids aren't really dedicated to getting an education and are simply there to placate somebody. (Not always but the vast majority this applies to)

Then this Student Loan program has massive issues. Kids are going to school to learn circus and acrobatics and going back home as an unemployed and unemployable clown.

And the degrees that qualify for student loans are way past the point of sanity. Remove ALL the foodservice and hospitality degrees from the loan program. No more Barista degrees. (It's only for kids to work in this industry anyway)

Then let's lose all the liberal arts programs as well from the loan program...no more degrees in 16th century French Art and Literature.

And let's remove stock market trading, Real Estate, and truck driving as well...(too many scammers)

Electronics are taught only from an engineering standpoint...anything else is something else and a scam.

Same thing with CS courses....teach programming languages and IT courses of course....but since when has using Windows become a complete college degree?

And as far as Business Management degrees.....let's get the course requirements MORE STANDARDIZED than what is currently being done. Besides sitting around and just talking about businesses...have courses and true testing in leveraged assets, employee relations and utilization, business law, finance, economics, accounting, marketing successes and failures....things of this nature. Not "Email basics and effective communication ".

There's so much garbage being sold as a college degree anymore it's unethical.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

But who KNOWS the cost of education.We had a family member go to school in DC and got a perfectly SHIT non-education

Public Spending per student K-12
View attachment 872378

Spending per student has a lot more to do with the cost of living in the area rather than anything else. The cost to pay staff makes it very expensive. I worked in small, mostly rural schools my last 11 years and made over $50K one year! before that, I worked in FL for absolutely shit pay. I was an administrator on a year-round contract and still never made $50K.

 

[JohnDB]

Spending per student has a lot more to do with the cost of living in the area rather than anything else. The cost to pay staff makes it very expensive. I worked in small, mostly rural schools my last 11 years and made over $50K one year! before that, I worked in FL for absolutely shit pay. I was an administrator on a year-round contract and still never made $50K.

Spending per student needs to EXCLUDE certain expenses like real estate, grounds keeping, and many other areas that have nothing to do with education.

I've seen schools that have classes that have enough students to equal a cool million in revenue but the teacher is paid only a mid 5 figures salary and has extremely limited resources....where did the money go?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Everything you say is true and it created a new education industry populated with educators that want those jobs becuase real jobs are hard. So they started drugging kids from bad homes (ADHD) that were essentially casualties of the Great Society so they could concenrate in classrooms. Hey, my kid got a diploma from a liberal arts college. Why is he/she an unhealthy drunk/weed smoker sitting in my basement?

I want that money back from people that did not go to college! You see the problem with that line of thinking?

If you're saying bad homes causes ADHD you need to understand it a little better. That's the dumbest thing I have seen today.

If not, explain your reasoning, please.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Spending per student needs to EXCLUDE certain expenses like real estate, grounds keeping, and many other areas that have nothing to do with education.

I've seen schools that have classes that have enough students to equal a cool million in revenue but the teacher is paid only a mid 5 figures salary and has extremely limited resources....where did the money go?

It is worse than you think! When I taught in FL 20 years ago, the cost per student was over $10,000. Do you know how much the school had per student? About $4500.

The cost per student is also skewed by special education students. I have had students that were a cost to the school in the $100,000 range.