Is Fed Counterfeiting An Economic Stimulus?

[Natural Citizen]

Given all of the recent hype about the GDP, and the fact that we're seeing Democrats and Republicans literally arguing over who will get credit for all of the new debt, I figured a good dose of reality might serve helpful to the casual reader who may wish to better understand what's actually going on. Particularly since nobody ever asks where so much of the money comes from in the first place.

According to the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) latest “Update on the Budget Outlook,” this year’s $3.3 trillion federal deficit is not just three times larger than last year: it is the largest federal deficit in history. The CBO update also predicts that the federal debt will equal 104 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP) next year and will reach 108 percent of GDP by 2030.

The CBO update also shows that the Social Security, Medicare, and highway trust funds will all be bankrupt by 2031. This will put pressure on Congress to bail out the trust funds thus further increasing the debt.


Anyway. Off we go....



''Politicians want the Fed to counterfeit more money. The Fed wants politicians to spend the counterfeit money even faster. All are trying to "stimulate" a broken economy that rests on a foundation of sand: central economic planning. Human civilization, society, and the economy cannot be controlled by Fed price-fixers, counterfeiters and bureaucrats. Freedom and sound money are the only things that can fix what they have broken.''

 

[Oddball]

 

[Mac1958]

The Federal Reserve has been keeping this economy afloat since 2009. Knowing this has kept the stock market buoyed this whole time.

On top of THAT, the NY Fed poured $1.5 TRILLION into short term markets in 2019 to save us from another credit freeze.

Most people don't know this, of course. All they look at is the stock market numbers and the headline economic figures.

This is Capitalism 2.0, the Fed as Buyer Of Last Resort. It's not Trump or Obama. But people aren't paying attention, as usual.

 

[Natural Citizen]

We just call it Keynesian price-fixing for short.

It's as far from free-market capitalism as one can get.

And, of course, one need only look at the debt clock, their few cents worth of purchasing power on the dollar and how the value of their savings are dwindling.

Anyway, the statesman is spot-on in the op, as usual.

 

[task0778]

Those trust funds are already bankrupt, payments going out is greater than revenue coming in. So what if we are cashing in the IOUs that Congress put in there while they were spending the cash excess back when the situation was reversed? Those IOUs are merely bookkeeping tricks to make it look like those trust funds are still solvent and the politicians can continue to kick that can down the road for 10 more years before the IOUs finally expire and they have to actually do something that is politically unpalatable.

As for the Fed counterfeiting money, that is bullshit. It is a federal crime to create fake or phony money and there's no fucking way the Fed is doing that. Now if you want to talk about Quantitative Easing as it was called during the Obama years, that's different. The banks buy US Gov't debt bonds and sell them to the Fed and get credit on their books instead of debt. That is in effect monetizing the debt with what is essentially fiat money for which there is no corresponding bill or coin. but it ain't counterfeit, it's real and it's legal.

 

[ReinyDays]

What are you talking about? ... "printing" money worked great in 1920's Germany ... what could possibly go wrong? ...

Ha ha ... just joking ...

This idea of "too big to fail" is complete and utter nonsense ... giving BankAmerica $5 trillion so they stay open sets a horrific precedence ... the United States has the single most liberal bankruptcy laws the world has ever known ... BA took the risk of writing half million dollar mortgages to hoboes off the railroad cars ... they should have been allowed to dissolve under the above mentioned liberalism ... the recession might have been a little deeper and a little longer, but we would have emerged with a more resilient economy ... from where I sit, looks like our current economy failed in the exactly the same way as 12 years ago ... as it will fail 12 years from now ...

There's an economic bubble in our health care system right now ... if you haven't noticed ... this is all chump change so far compared to the costs of "too big to fail" when applied to hospitals and clinics ...

... and the Middle Class keeps electing the Rich to run things ... they deserve what they get ...

 

[Slade3200]

Given all of the recent hype about the GDP, and the fact that we're seeing Democrats and Republicans literally arguing over who will get credit for all of the new debt, I figured a good dose of reality might serve helpful to the casual reader who may wish to better understand what's actually going on. Particularly since nobody ever asks where so much of the money comes from in the first place.

According to the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) latest “Update on the Budget Outlook,” this year’s $3.3 trillion federal deficit is not just three times larger than last year: it is the largest federal deficit in history. The CBO update also predicts that the federal debt will equal 104 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP) next year and will reach 108 percent of GDP by 2030.

The CBO update also shows that the Social Security, Medicare, and highway trust funds will all be bankrupt by 2031. This will put pressure on Congress to bail out the trust funds thus further increasing the debt.


Anyway. Off we go....



''Politicians want the Fed to counterfeit more money. The Fed wants politicians to spend the counterfeit money even faster. All are trying to "stimulate" a broken economy that rests on a foundation of sand: central economic planning. Human civilization, society, and the economy cannot be controlled by Fed price-fixers, counterfeiters and bureaucrats. Freedom and sound money are the only things that can fix what they have broken.''

Counterfeit is a hyperbolic and plainly inaccurate word to use. I think one can show their disagreement with policy better than using false and inflammatory language in their argument. With that said... over 100% debt to GDP is irresponsible. I’d like to see us in the 60-80% range

 

[ReinyDays]

Those trust funds are already bankrupt ...

HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW ... [thump] ... (ouch, damn this floor is hard) ...

I got my letter from the SSA ... my lifetime contributions are just shy of $7,000 ... my month benefit at 62 will be $500 a month ... yes, thank you, that was brilliant planning on my part ... most of you pay $12,000 per year ...

Get back to work, suckers, pay my fair share of the tax load ...

 

[Natural Citizen]

As for the Fed counterfeiting money, that is bullshit.

Counterfeit is a hyperbolic and plainly inaccurate word to use.

Not if you understand the monetary policy, it isn't. It's legalized money out of thin air.

For instance...

To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating ''money.”

Of course , 'money' has to be a store of value to actually be money. All they're really creating is currency. Federal Reserve Notes.


Let me ask you this. Matter of fact, let's make it country simple for everyone and start backward.

What is the unit of account for 1 Federal Reserve Note? Or one dollar, if you like.

 

[danielpalos]

Given all of the recent hype about the GDP, and the fact that we're seeing Democrats and Republicans literally arguing over who will get credit for all of the new debt, I figured a good dose of reality might serve helpful to the casual reader who may wish to better understand what's actually going on. Particularly since nobody ever asks where so much of the money comes from in the first place.

According to the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) latest “Update on the Budget Outlook,” this year’s $3.3 trillion federal deficit is not just three times larger than last year: it is the largest federal deficit in history. The CBO update also predicts that the federal debt will equal 104 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP) next year and will reach 108 percent of GDP by 2030.

The CBO update also shows that the Social Security, Medicare, and highway trust funds will all be bankrupt by 2031. This will put pressure on Congress to bail out the trust funds thus further increasing the debt.


Anyway. Off we go....



''Politicians want the Fed to counterfeit more money. The Fed wants politicians to spend the counterfeit money even faster. All are trying to "stimulate" a broken economy that rests on a foundation of sand: central economic planning. Human civilization, society, and the economy cannot be controlled by Fed price-fixers, counterfeiters and bureaucrats. Freedom and sound money are the only things that can fix what they have broken.''

Raise the minimum wage to raise more federal income tax revenue!

 

[jwoodie]

The Debt is beyond redemption. Default or devaluation (official or otherwise) are the only options.

Don't cry for me, Argentina...

 

[ReinyDays]

What is the unit of account for 1 Federal Reserve Note?

Ah ... you edited your post ... thank you ... that would be the Eagle when interacting with the government ... in personal transactions, we're allowed to use pesos, or doughnuts ... whatever the two parties agree on ... we just have to convert to Eagles, Dollars, Dimes and Cents if we have to report the transaction to the government ...

 

[Natural Citizen]

What is the unit of account for 1 Federal Reserve Note?

Ah ... you edited your post ... thank you ... that would be the Eagle when interacting with the government ... in personal transactions, we're allowed to use pesos, or doughnuts ... whatever the two parties agree on ... we just have to convert to Eagles, Dollars, Dimes and Cents if we have to report the transaction to the government ...

Yeah, but I still left it at one dollar if you like. It's the same thing. I just wanted to be crystal clear. Usually, I'm debating this stuff with people who work in the industry, and they'll try to weasel every which way around it they can. And it never works. Ha.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Anyway. It's a good discussion about it in the video there in the op. As I'd mentioned, people who are interested in knowing what's really going on right now would benefit from it.

I have to get some work done. Been on here too long already.

 

[task0778]

Counterfeit is a hyperbolic and plainly inaccurate word to use.

Not if you understand the monetary policy, it isn't. It's legalized money out of thin air.

For instance...

To steal a quote from the Boston Federal Reserve's ''Putting it Simply", they say that ''When you or I write a check, there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating ''money.”


Let me ask you this. Matter of fact, let's make it country simple for everyoe and start backward.

What is the unit of account for 1 dollar?

Counterfeit money is NOT the same as legalized money. The difference is that counterfeit money is NOT backed by the full faith and credit of the US Gov't, whereas legalized money out of thin air IS.

When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating ''money.” True. But that money it is not counterfeit, it carries the same legal value as a dollar bill whereas a counterfeit bill has no legal value.

"when the Federal Reserve writes a check, there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn." That doesn't make the check illegal or counterfeit. It does mean that the Fed is creating fiat money that is not backed by gold or silver and has value only because the US Gov't says it does. We can debate the wisdom of that concept, and talk about the foolishness of creating so much debt whether it is fiat money or not. One might think there has to be a limit somewhere to how much fiat money a gov't can create before the house of cards falls down. It looks like we're going to be testing that limit at some point.

 

[ReinyDays]

Yeah, but I still left it at one dollar if you like. It's the same thing. I just wanted to be crystal clear. Usually, I'm debating this stuff with people who work in the industry, and they'll try to weasel every which way around it they can. And it never works. Ha.

I'm not a big fan of fiat money ... but I do want you to pay your rent with it ... I've only a 1/2 ton pickup and I'd rather not have to make two trips to the bank ... cut me a check and we're fine ... if it bounces, you're homeless ... easy peasy ...

Bullionism suffers from debasement ... separating Far Madding gold from Tal Valor gold is time consuming ...

 

[Gdjjr]

There are some good comments here, so let me change the game a little.

In the scheme of things (world wide hegemony, i.e. New World Order [ala bush sr] the deficit doesn't matter.

If we had a real budget surplus we would still have the fruit of our labor taken through threat of force-

The New World Order means someone/something has to be in charge- follow the money, see the agenda- close your eyes and see only what's in your head- what would be in your head is what you hear- as in told-

I don't believe there is a good answer about what to do- it wouldn't matter anyway since it ain't gonna change.
Politicians know that- no, I'm not condoning Empty Suit behavior-

I came up with a phrase several years ago (15 or so)- when havoc is created, chaos ensues and catastrophe is inevitable- the time line will be assigned by Historians- IMNSHO it could be 1776- since man has always determined it needed someone else in charge and 1776 allegedly changed that- havoc was created- chaos ensued with the federal reserve "act"- it acts as an omnipotent- so, we await the catastrophe- in humanity that is the shedding of blood- quantity matters but is immaterial to this serenade- the catastrophe can be minimized, but not avoided- it is a natural order being fulfilled- Truth can help minimize the effect but it can't immediately change the direction of the dynamic- immediately changing the direction of a dynamic, regardless of it's make up, will result in a catastrophic effect- think of it similar to a race car going wide open and then turning abruptly- there will be a catastrophe IF the truth wasn't involved in the preparation of the car- the Truth in that sense is; build the car so adjustments can be made incrementally by the crew and the driver to maintain control- incremental being 'a' key- Truth being 'the' key- the Truth, in regard to man (humanity all) is; all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights- acknowledgement of that cannot be forced- using force is the exact opposite of the philosophy- so, we're left with sowing seeds for incremental change of direction- what seeds you ask- the seeds of Liberty- they will bear fruit with care and nurture applied- we are witnessing/consuming the fruit of seeds sown long before any of us were even a gleam in someone's eye- we got here incrementally we will leave the same way, catastrophically - so our time to sow seeds is at hand-

 

[Oddball]

Given all of the recent hype about the GDP, and the fact that we're seeing Democrats and Republicans literally arguing over who will get credit for all of the new debt, I figured a good dose of reality might serve helpful to the casual reader who may wish to better understand what's actually going on. Particularly since nobody ever asks where so much of the money comes from in the first place.

According to the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) latest “Update on the Budget Outlook,” this year’s $3.3 trillion federal deficit is not just three times larger than last year: it is the largest federal deficit in history. The CBO update also predicts that the federal debt will equal 104 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP) next year and will reach 108 percent of GDP by 2030.

The CBO update also shows that the Social Security, Medicare, and highway trust funds will all be bankrupt by 2031. This will put pressure on Congress to bail out the trust funds thus further increasing the debt.


Anyway. Off we go....



''Politicians want the Fed to counterfeit more money. The Fed wants politicians to spend the counterfeit money even faster. All are trying to "stimulate" a broken economy that rests on a foundation of sand: central economic planning. Human civilization, society, and the economy cannot be controlled by Fed price-fixers, counterfeiters and bureaucrats. Freedom and sound money are the only things that can fix what they have broken.''

Raise the minimum wage to raise more federal income tax revenue!

 

[task0778]

There are some good comments here, so let me change the game a little.

In the scheme of things (world wide hegemony, i.e. New World Order [ala bush sr] the deficit doesn't matter.

If we had a real budget surplus we would still have the fruit of our labor taken through threat of force-

The New World Order means someone/something has to be in charge- follow the money, see the agenda- close your eyes and see only what's in your head- what would be in your head is what you hear- as in told-

I don't believe there is a good answer about what to do- it wouldn't matter anyway since it ain't gonna change.
Politicians know that- no, I'm not condoning Empty Suit behavior-

I came up with a phrase several years ago (15 or so)- when havoc is created, chaos ensues and catastrophe is inevitable- the time line will be assigned by Historians- IMNSHO it could be 1776- since man has always determined it needed someone else in charge and 1776 allegedly changed that- havoc was created- chaos ensued with the federal reserve "act"- it acts as an omnipotent- so, we await the catastrophe- in humanity that is the shedding of blood- quantity matters but is immaterial to this serenade- the catastrophe can be minimized, but not avoided- it is a natural order being fulfilled- Truth can help minimize the effect but it can't immediately change the direction of the dynamic- immediately changing the direction of a dynamic, regardless of it's make up, will result in a catastrophic effect- think of it similar to a race car going wide open and then turning abruptly- there will be a catastrophe IF the truth wasn't involved in the preparation of the car- the Truth in that sense is; build the car so adjustments can be made incrementally by the crew and the driver to maintain control- incremental being 'a' key- Truth being 'the' key- the Truth, in regard to man (humanity all) is; all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights- acknowledgement of that cannot be forced- using force is the exact opposite of the philosophy- so, we're left with sowing seeds for incremental change of direction- what seeds you ask- the seeds of Liberty- they will bear fruit with care and nurture applied- we are witnessing/consuming the fruit of seeds sown long before any of us were even a gleam in someone's eye- we got here incrementally we will leave the same way, catastrophically - so our time to sow seeds is at hand-

Appreciate your effort, but I gotta be honest. I missed your point here. Does it relate to the topic? If so, dumb it down and simplify a little bit please. If not, start your own thread and lol dumb it down.

"the deficit doesn't matter" I think eventually it does, cuz you gotta pay interest on the money you borrow no matter who you are. There's gotta be some point at which foreign interests and gov'ts and US banks, businesses, and citizens will stop buying US debt unless the interest rate rises and that in turn means we're in major trouble because the interest payments alone will be murderous. We just won't be able to outspend our revenue, so either our taxes will rise precipitously or our spending gets drastically cut. Probably both, and it's going to be really hard times for awhile IMHO.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Given all of the recent hype about the GDP, and the fact that we're seeing Democrats and Republicans literally arguing over who will get credit for all of the new debt, I figured a good dose of reality might serve helpful to the casual reader who may wish to better understand what's actually going on. Particularly since nobody ever asks where so much of the money comes from in the first place.

According to the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO) latest “Update on the Budget Outlook,” this year’s $3.3 trillion federal deficit is not just three times larger than last year: it is the largest federal deficit in history. The CBO update also predicts that the federal debt will equal 104 percent of the gross domestic product (GDP) next year and will reach 108 percent of GDP by 2030.

The CBO update also shows that the Social Security, Medicare, and highway trust funds will all be bankrupt by 2031. This will put pressure on Congress to bail out the trust funds thus further increasing the debt.


Anyway. Off we go....



''Politicians want the Fed to counterfeit more money. The Fed wants politicians to spend the counterfeit money even faster. All are trying to "stimulate" a broken economy that rests on a foundation of sand: central economic planning. Human civilization, society, and the economy cannot be controlled by Fed price-fixers, counterfeiters and bureaucrats. Freedom and sound money are the only things that can fix what they have broken.''

Raise the minimum wage to raise more federal income tax revenue!

Raising the minimum wage would reduce federal revenue.