Is banning guns to save lives even logical?

[regent]

Take away democrats and the problem is solved.

Yeah, Republicans like to be shot, and they even send a special thanks to Republicans when their families are involved.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I saw your post. And you honestly believe that a Texan didn't carry his weapon inside that store? I spent a few years living in Texas. Here is a question just for Texans. Does any Texan assume any place is a gun free zone regardless of the sign unless it's go a metal detector and security entrance to it? You have no idea what makes a Texan along the Border tick. As I said, there were more guns in that store than at an NRA convention.

So, you are saying that Texans are a cowardly bunch and, even though armed, cowered like little butt-hurt liberals in the face of a little pin-head perp with a rifle? Come on Daryl, insult yet another group of Americans in a desperate attempt to make some kind of silly gun-grabbing point.

I think I'll let the Texans in here answer you on this one. But you ain't going to like the answer.

 

[bripat9643]

What’s illogical is this thread’s premise – it fails as a false comparison fallacy.

The thread premise is also a lie: no one advocate for ‘banning’ guns.

They want to ban 'assault weapons' which are competely legal typical semi-auto rifles that look 'scary.'

They look like they do because every inch of them has the function of killing humans. Not one ounce is to look scary, sexy or anything else. They could have included a lip gloss applicator on a hand grenade but didn't since a lip gloss applicator had no function in killing humans. Same goes for the AR. It's designed for a scared shitless 18 year old fresh out of basic, pumped up on adrenaline, under heavy fire, very little training and being able to kill at a very high rate very quickly. Every piece of the AR is designed for this. Nothing is left over for anything else. So if it looks scary that's because it is. And it is scary for a damned good reason.

Intelligent people laugh at your theory that guns can be made safe.

There is only one way that an AR Variant can be made safe. Don't have one in open public. Simple as that. Meaning, if you see a person walking down the street packing it, consider them already unhinged to begin with and react accordingly. That reaction may be wrong 99% of the time but that 1% of the times will be correct. And an unhinged person walking down the street with an AR Variant needs to be taken down fast BEFORE they get to where they are going to use it. Actually, the figure is a lot lower than 99% but let's just use that as the base figure. Leave your AR variant home or society takes roads to prevent them from even being in the home. It's your choice.

I just told you there is no way guns can be made safe. A "safe" gun is a useless gun. If it can't kill the people who you're defending yourself against, then what's the point of having it?

You're trying to tell me that I have to get all the crazies off the street or you and your ilk will cancel the 2nd Amendment?

Go fuck yourself, you Stalinist asshole.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

When mass shootings occur not just in the United States but worldwide calls to ban guns come to the fore as they tend to do when innocent people die in the carnage. The theory is that taking away the instrument of the killing will stop the cause of death and make society a safer place. This makes sense on a superficial level but the logic is flawed because it does not address the dynamics that lead shooters to kill indiscriminately often losing their own lives in the process. When these events take place there is tremendous pressure to “do something” to prevent them. The killings become politicized and the blame game rages on.

In 2018 there were 323 mass shootings in the US with 1,661 being shot. 327 people died in those shootings so the logic of taking away guns suggests that lives could be saved. If the mission of taking away articles from the public is to save lives then that logic should be applied across the board to save lives.

635,260 people died from heart disease in the US caused from the chronic use of tobacco and alcohol. So to save lives the logic of taking away the cause of death needs to be applied. Should we forget the lessons of Prohibition and ban the apparatus of death? 600,000 is a number that dwarfs 327 so obviously tobacco and alcohol are 1,800 times more dangerous than guns used in mass shootings.

Should we start removing beer and cigarettes from store shelves and passing laws to arrest those who peddle them if they do not comply? Let’s not forget that another 600,000 died from cancer much of which can be traced to the use of booze and butts so the numbers are even more ominous. Are we trying to save lives or not?

The flawed logic of blaming the current president for mass shootings pales in comparison to that same logic of blaming the previous president that smoked and shared a beer with police. Using this logic the president that sat in office for eight years set a fatal example that led to millions of preventable deaths while today’s president doesn’t even drink or smoke.

Obviously calls for gun control are dangerously illogical so long as multitudes perish from self-administered poison some of which (alcohol) is widely advertised on television. Should we get our priorities in order?

If you drink to much water it can kill you.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

What’s illogical is this thread’s premise – it fails as a false comparison fallacy.

The thread premise is also a lie: no one advocate for ‘banning’ guns.

They want to ban 'assault weapons' which are competely legal typical semi-auto rifles that look 'scary.'

They look like they do because every inch of them has the function of killing humans. Not one ounce is to look scary, sexy or anything else. They could have included a lip gloss applicator on a hand grenade but didn't since a lip gloss applicator had no function in killing humans. Same goes for the AR. It's designed for a scared shitless 18 year old fresh out of basic, pumped up on adrenaline, under heavy fire, very little training and being able to kill at a very high rate very quickly. Every piece of the AR is designed for this. Nothing is left over for anything else. So if it looks scary that's because it is. And it is scary for a damned good reason.

Intelligent people laugh at your theory that guns can be made safe.

There is only one way that an AR Variant can be made safe. Don't have one in open public. Simple as that. Meaning, if you see a person walking down the street packing it, consider them already unhinged to begin with and react accordingly. That reaction may be wrong 99% of the time but that 1% of the times will be correct. And an unhinged person walking down the street with an AR Variant needs to be taken down fast BEFORE they get to where they are going to use it. Actually, the figure is a lot lower than 99% but let's just use that as the base figure. Leave your AR variant home or society takes roads to prevent them from even being in the home. It's your choice.

What a load of shit. An AR-15 is functionally no different than a .223 semi-auto hunting rifle. Are you one of those retarded loons who think the color black with plastic and composite parts make a firearm some kind of doomsday device ?

 

[Leo123]

I think I'll let the Texans in here answer you on this one. But you ain't going to like the answer.

Why? Because YOU have no answer? Figures....

 

[Daryl Hunt]

What’s illogical is this thread’s premise – it fails as a false comparison fallacy.

The thread premise is also a lie: no one advocate for ‘banning’ guns.

They want to ban 'assault weapons' which are competely legal typical semi-auto rifles that look 'scary.'

They look like they do because every inch of them has the function of killing humans. Not one ounce is to look scary, sexy or anything else. They could have included a lip gloss applicator on a hand grenade but didn't since a lip gloss applicator had no function in killing humans. Same goes for the AR. It's designed for a scared shitless 18 year old fresh out of basic, pumped up on adrenaline, under heavy fire, very little training and being able to kill at a very high rate very quickly. Every piece of the AR is designed for this. Nothing is left over for anything else. So if it looks scary that's because it is. And it is scary for a damned good reason.

Intelligent people laugh at your theory that guns can be made safe.

There is only one way that an AR Variant can be made safe. Don't have one in open public. Simple as that. Meaning, if you see a person walking down the street packing it, consider them already unhinged to begin with and react accordingly. That reaction may be wrong 99% of the time but that 1% of the times will be correct. And an unhinged person walking down the street with an AR Variant needs to be taken down fast BEFORE they get to where they are going to use it. Actually, the figure is a lot lower than 99% but let's just use that as the base figure. Leave your AR variant home or society takes roads to prevent them from even being in the home. It's your choice.

I just told you there is no way guns can be made safe. A "safe" gun is a useless gun. If it can't kill the people who you're defending yourself against, then what's the point of having it?

You're trying to tell me that I have to get all the crazies off the street or you and your ilk will cancel the 2nd Amendment?

Go fuck yourself, you Stalinist asshole.

No, you are telling me that. You seem to tell me what I say way too much. I am getting ready to go to breakfast. Tell me what I am thinking of having for breakfast. I can't decide yet. But since you are telling me what I am thinking, maybe you can tell me what I am going to order at Denny's.

I already stated that carrying an AR down the street is abnormal as all get out. And anyone that finds the absolute need to do so is probably unhinged to begin with. Or is such a small child in mentality we all should reassess if they should even have firearms in the first place. the old "You can't tell me what to do" only goes so far. Now, if you want to walk down the street with a CCW permit and a hideaway gun, I don't have a problem with that. Those with CCWs are generally not a problem. Only one recorded shooting has occurred by a CCW permit holder. Out of about 3 million CCW carriers at any one time, that's a percentage I can live with. But the percentage of those carrying an AR down the street that is up to no good is way out of whack. Leave your AR home and you can keep it. Don't leave it and society will have to do something about it. And in many areas, they already have. Pick something else to play "You can't tell me what to do". You are right, I am not your Father. Otherwise, your butt would be cherry red from the spankings.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

What’s illogical is this thread’s premise – it fails as a false comparison fallacy.

The thread premise is also a lie: no one advocate for ‘banning’ guns.

They want to ban 'assault weapons' which are competely legal typical semi-auto rifles that look 'scary.'

They look like they do because every inch of them has the function of killing humans. Not one ounce is to look scary, sexy or anything else. They could have included a lip gloss applicator on a hand grenade but didn't since a lip gloss applicator had no function in killing humans. Same goes for the AR. It's designed for a scared shitless 18 year old fresh out of basic, pumped up on adrenaline, under heavy fire, very little training and being able to kill at a very high rate very quickly. Every piece of the AR is designed for this. Nothing is left over for anything else. So if it looks scary that's because it is. And it is scary for a damned good reason.

Intelligent people laugh at your theory that guns can be made safe.

There is only one way that an AR Variant can be made safe. Don't have one in open public. Simple as that. Meaning, if you see a person walking down the street packing it, consider them already unhinged to begin with and react accordingly. That reaction may be wrong 99% of the time but that 1% of the times will be correct. And an unhinged person walking down the street with an AR Variant needs to be taken down fast BEFORE they get to where they are going to use it. Actually, the figure is a lot lower than 99% but let's just use that as the base figure. Leave your AR variant home or society takes roads to prevent them from even being in the home. It's your choice.

What a load of shit. An AR-15 is functionally no different than a .223 semi-auto hunting rifle. Are you one of those retarded loons who think the color black with plastic and composite parts make a firearm some kind of doomsday device ?

I already covered what makes the AR different many times. Just because you want to play, "You can't tell me what to do" that's okay. But you will find, as time goes by, yes society can and will. More and more places are heavily regulating the AR and the AK for the reasons I have noted. And the "You can't tell me what to do" becomes a moot point because, yes, society CAN and WILL tell you what to do.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I think I'll let the Texans in here answer you on this one. But you ain't going to like the answer.

Why? Because YOU have no answer? Figures....

Hey Texans, this one things you are all Pussies and unarmed. Wow, you going to let him get away with that?

 

[cnm]

What a load of shit. An AR-15 is functionally no different than a .223 semi-auto hunting rifle. Are you one of those retarded loons who think the color black with plastic and composite parts make a firearm some kind of doomsday device ?

That is true if the 'hunting rifle' will take large capacity interchangeable magazines. Over 5 is large capacity in this scenario. If the 'hunting rifle' won't take those magazines it is definitely functionally different to an AR15.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

What a load of shit. An AR-15 is functionally no different than a .223 semi-auto hunting rifle. Are you one of those retarded loons who think the color black with plastic and composite parts make a firearm some kind of doomsday device ?

That is true if the 'hunting rifle' will take large capacity interchangeable magazines. Over 5 is large capacity in this scenario. If the 'hunting rifle' won't take those magazines it is definitely functionally dissimilar to an AR15.

Okay, here is a refresher course of why an AR is an AR. We go through this about every other month or so. Seems the gunnutters think the rest of us forget.

Why was the AR-15 invented?

It was invented so that an 18 year old kid with very little training, right out of basic, can kill at a high rate as many people as he can, reload quickly and effortlessly, carry many times the ammo of the previous combat rifles, carry his rifle for hours, days and weeks on end without fatigue. Nothing was included for cosmetics. It's design is function only. And it's function is to kill other people. It's design is the best design in the world and all others successful combat rifles have copied the AR in functions.

Being black doesn't make it more lethal. It would be just as lethal if it were pink but it's black because it's hard to see at night, another function. The Mag drops straight down without having to even place a hand on it so that you can drop it while reaching for a replacement mag. Another feature. You can operate it without taking your finger out of the trigger guard. Another feature. You don't have to rotate the rifle to reload or recharge it. Another feature. It has almost zero barrel jump. Another feature. It's simple to operate for a novice shooter or a new combat shooter under extreme pressure under fire. Another feature. It's just deadly enough to get the job done against a human sized target. Another feature. There are methods to add rails to it to add combat related accessories to increase it's deadliness. Another feature.

There are no features that don't apply to killing human beings. No features to make it look pretty. No features to apply lip gloss or anything else that doesn't have anything to do with killing humans. Just because it can be used to kill a groundhog doesn't means it's designed as a great varmint rifle. If I need to hammer something and the hammer is in the shop, I've been know to use a crescent wrench in a pinch. Does that make my crescent wrench a hammer?

The fact remains that the AR is designed for one thing and one thing only, to wholesale kill a large group of people in the most efficient method possible. And even the M-16 and the M-4 is normally operated in combat in the semi auto mode because that is the most efficient mode. The Full Auto of the old A-1 and A-2 wasted way too much ammo and missed the target most of the time and the 3 shot burst, only the first round hits the target anyway and you just wasted 2 rounds. So in combat, most are shot in the semi auto setting because that is the setting where it is the most useful. So the AR-15 Model 750 and various clones are just as deadly as the M-16 and the M-4 and the M-16 and the M-4 are the premier Combat Rifles in the world because they are designed to be. Not one ounce of design for anything other than that of a combat rifle.

So what is an AR-15? A Combat Rifle and if it's not the best, it's one of the best ever made.

 

[cnm]

The Rugers' actions are based on a combat design, if they'll take large capacity removable mags they're functionally similar.

 

[cnm]

So the AR-15 Model 750 and various clones are just as deadly as the M-16 and the M-4 and the M-16 and the M-4 are the premier Combat Rifles in the world because they are designed to be

Superseded by the LMT New Zealand rifle.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The Rugers' actions are based on a combat design, if they'll take large capacity removable mags they're functionally similar.

You arc the mag out. It doesn't drop out on it's own so easily. The AR is designed to free fall effortlessly. You don't have to place a hand on it to get it out and you don't have to arc it in to get it onto place. The Rugers are based on the old M-1 design that was last used on the M-14. The AR replaced all that in the Military starting in 1958 for the Maylasian Military and in 1962 for the United States Air Force. The reason the Air Force went to the AR-15 Model 601 was because they only had to spend 2 hours total training time before any Airman was fully qualified on the weapon and that included qualifying on the range and teardown, cleaning and reassembly. The Army didn't include the AR-15 Model 602 renamed to the M-16A-1 until 1969. But the stupidity of the Army, they didn't include the cleaning kit, didn't impress on the troops the importance of keeping it clean and used their own dirty powder for reloads. The Air Force didn't have the jamming problem because they included the cleaning kit (there is a compartment on all M-16s for the kit), impressed on the troops about keeping it clean and used factory commercial ammo. Only the Army could be that stupid.

You are comparing a dinosaur design to a space age design. The Mini-14 is a great rifle but it's design is from a bygone era when there was Stoner design.

 

[Ray9]

Don't forget the premise of the thread. There are far more people dying from smoking, alcohol use and drug abuse than gun violence by legal gun owners. Deaths from guns in inner cities are the result of criminals that get their hands on guns illegally.

It is illogical to argue that taking away guns will have any negligible effect on avoidable deaths in the US or anywhere else. The underlying reason for taking away guns is to disarm the public.

Arguing about gun semantics is just a distraction.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

So the AR-15 Model 750 and various clones are just as deadly as the M-16 and the M-4 and the M-16 and the M-4 are the premier Combat Rifles in the world because they are designed to be

Superseded by the LMT New Zealand rifle.

And what makes the LMT a contender?

Not one ounce was used for cosmetics. It uses the same formula that the AR uses.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Don't forget the premise of the thread. There are far more people dying from smoking, alcohol use and drug abuse than gun violence by legal gun owners. Deaths from guns in inner cities are the result of criminals that get their hands on guns illegally.

It is illogical to argue that taking away guns will have any negligible effect on avoidable deaths in the US or anywhere else. The underlying reason for taking away guns is to disarm the public.

Arguing about gun semantics is just a distraction.

Far more people are dying from old age. Maybe we should do something about that. Maybe we should ban old age while we are at it. I am 68. I'm for that one.

But we do what we can even if it's just for one thing at a time. Saving one life at a time.

 

[Rustic]

What a load of shit. An AR-15 is functionally no different than a .223 semi-auto hunting rifle. Are you one of those retarded loons who think the color black with plastic and composite parts make a firearm some kind of doomsday device ?

That is true if the 'hunting rifle' will take large capacity interchangeable magazines. Over 5 is large capacity in this scenario. If the 'hunting rifle' won't take those magazines it is definitely functionally dissimilar to an AR15.

Okay, here is a refresher course of why an AR is an AR. We go through this about every other month or so. Seems the gunnutters think the rest of us forget.

Why was the AR-15 invented?

It was invented so that an 18 year old kid with very little training, right out of basic, can kill at a high rate as many people as he can, reload quickly and effortlessly, carry many times the ammo of the previous combat rifles, carry his rifle for hours, days and weeks on end without fatigue. Nothing was included for cosmetics. It's design is function only. And it's function is to kill other people. It's design is the best design in the world and all others successful combat rifles have copied the AR in functions.

Being black doesn't make it more lethal. It would be just as lethal if it were pink but it's black because it's hard to see at night, another function. The Mag drops straight down without having to even place a hand on it so that you can drop it while reaching for a replacement mag. Another feature. You can operate it without taking your finger out of the trigger guard. Another feature. You don't have to rotate the rifle to reload or recharge it. Another feature. It has almost zero barrel jump. Another feature. It's simple to operate for a novice shooter or a new combat shooter under extreme pressure under fire. Another feature. It's just deadly enough to get the job done against a human sized target. Another feature. There are methods to add rails to it to add combat related accessories to increase it's deadliness. Another feature.

There are no features that don't apply to killing human beings. No features to make it look pretty. No features to apply lip gloss or anything else that doesn't have anything to do with killing humans. Just because it can be used to kill a groundhog doesn't means it's designed as a great varmint rifle. If I need to hammer something and the hammer is in the shop, I've been know to use a crescent wrench in a pinch. Does that make my crescent wrench a hammer?

The fact remains that the AR is designed for one thing and one thing only, to wholesale kill a large group of people in the most efficient method possible. And even the M-16 and the M-4 is normally operated in combat in the semi auto mode because that is the most efficient mode. The Full Auto of the old A-1 and A-2 wasted way too much ammo and missed the target most of the time and the 3 shot burst, only the first round hits the target anyway and you just wasted 2 rounds. So in combat, most are shot in the semi auto setting because that is the setting where it is the most useful. So the AR-15 Model 750 and various clones are just as deadly as the M-16 and the M-4 and the M-16 and the M-4 are the premier Combat Rifles in the world because they are designed to be. Not one ounce of design for anything other than that of a combat rifle.

So what is an AR-15? A Combat Rifle and if it's not the best, it's one of the best ever made.

Lol
ARs make for great hunting rifles, After all they just sporting rifles is nothing more nothing less. And they certainly are not military grade.
Buy more guns and ammo...
The Most Versatile Semi-Automatic Rifles

Great alternatives for people that don’t want to buy something like this piece of shit...

 

[Ray9]

Don't forget the premise of the thread. There are far more people dying from smoking, alcohol use and drug abuse than gun violence by legal gun owners. Deaths from guns in inner cities are the result of criminals that get their hands on guns illegally.

It is illogical to argue that taking away guns will have any negligible effect on avoidable deaths in the US or anywhere else. The underlying reason for taking away guns is to disarm the public.

Arguing about gun semantics is just a distraction.

Far more people are dying from old age. Maybe we should do something about that. Maybe we should ban old age while we are at it. I am 68. I'm for that one.

But we do what we can even if it's just for one thing at a time. Saving one life at a time.

Well, nothing fights old age like dying early from slow poison.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

What a load of shit. An AR-15 is functionally no different than a .223 semi-auto hunting rifle. Are you one of those retarded loons who think the color black with plastic and composite parts make a firearm some kind of doomsday device ?

That is true if the 'hunting rifle' will take large capacity interchangeable magazines. Over 5 is large capacity in this scenario. If the 'hunting rifle' won't take those magazines it is definitely functionally dissimilar to an AR15.

Okay, here is a refresher course of why an AR is an AR. We go through this about every other month or so. Seems the gunnutters think the rest of us forget.

Why was the AR-15 invented?

It was invented so that an 18 year old kid with very little training, right out of basic, can kill at a high rate as many people as he can, reload quickly and effortlessly, carry many times the ammo of the previous combat rifles, carry his rifle for hours, days and weeks on end without fatigue. Nothing was included for cosmetics. It's design is function only. And it's function is to kill other people. It's design is the best design in the world and all others successful combat rifles have copied the AR in functions.

Being black doesn't make it more lethal. It would be just as lethal if it were pink but it's black because it's hard to see at night, another function. The Mag drops straight down without having to even place a hand on it so that you can drop it while reaching for a replacement mag. Another feature. You can operate it without taking your finger out of the trigger guard. Another feature. You don't have to rotate the rifle to reload or recharge it. Another feature. It has almost zero barrel jump. Another feature. It's simple to operate for a novice shooter or a new combat shooter under extreme pressure under fire. Another feature. It's just deadly enough to get the job done against a human sized target. Another feature. There are methods to add rails to it to add combat related accessories to increase it's deadliness. Another feature.

There are no features that don't apply to killing human beings. No features to make it look pretty. No features to apply lip gloss or anything else that doesn't have anything to do with killing humans. Just because it can be used to kill a groundhog doesn't means it's designed as a great varmint rifle. If I need to hammer something and the hammer is in the shop, I've been know to use a crescent wrench in a pinch. Does that make my crescent wrench a hammer?

The fact remains that the AR is designed for one thing and one thing only, to wholesale kill a large group of people in the most efficient method possible. And even the M-16 and the M-4 is normally operated in combat in the semi auto mode because that is the most efficient mode. The Full Auto of the old A-1 and A-2 wasted way too much ammo and missed the target most of the time and the 3 shot burst, only the first round hits the target anyway and you just wasted 2 rounds. So in combat, most are shot in the semi auto setting because that is the setting where it is the most useful. So the AR-15 Model 750 and various clones are just as deadly as the M-16 and the M-4 and the M-16 and the M-4 are the premier Combat Rifles in the world because they are designed to be. Not one ounce of design for anything other than that of a combat rifle.

So what is an AR-15? A Combat Rifle and if it's not the best, it's one of the best ever made.

Lol
ARs make for great hunting rifles, After all they just sporting rifles is nothing more nothing less. And they certainly are not military grade.
Buy more guns and ammo...
The Most Versatile Semi-Automatic Rifles

Great alternatives for people that don’t want to buy something like this piece of shit...

That piece of Shit is a wonderful rifle that will shoot circles around an AR. I can light matches at 250 yds with it in almost any caliber. And it looks damned good. Especially waxed and polished up.