Iraq seeks sharp reduction in U.S. military role

[DeadCanDance]

Wait? How and by whom were these polls conducted? There were large areas of Iraq unsafe to venture in until quite recently, how exactly were people polled in these areas if no non Iraqi/Arab could go there safely? No phones to ring them up on and no western Union to send them a telegram?

they hire local iraqis to conduct door to door surveys, moron.

Don't you read anything besides Dick Tracy comics?

 

[DeadCanDance]

Mattkramer has provided an enormous amount of empirical, statistical data from reputable mainstream polling companies to support his position.

Let's see Bush voters put aside their gut feelings and guesses, and provide scientific polls from mainstream polling companies, to support their position that majorities of Iraqis want the american Army to stay in iraq longterm, for years or decades on end.

In short, Where's your evidence?

I'll check back.

 

[Taomon]

Mattkramer has provided an enormous amount of empirical, statistical data from reputable mainstream polling companies to support his position.

Let's see Bush voters put aside their gut feelings and guesses, and provide scientific polls from mainstream polling companies, to support their position that majorities of Iraqis want the american Army to stay in iraq longterm, for years or decades on end.

In short, Where's your evidence?

I'll check back.

They cannot provide it because it does not exist. Iraq wants us out. The Iraqi people want us out. Their neighbors want us out. But we must feed our egos and line the pockets of war profiteers and stay the course.

 

[mattskramer]

they hire local iraqis to conduct door to door surveys, moron.

Don't you read anything besides Dick Tracy comics?

I appreciate the recognition, but let’s not resort to name-calling. I didn’t even consider that local Iraqis could have been called upon to assist in polling other Iraqis – and I thought that I was the insightful, resourceful, and open-minded one here.

 

[Alucard]

they hire local iraqis to conduct door to door surveys, moron.

Don't you read anything besides Dick Tracy comics?

Who is the Moron Moron?

first of all....

EVERY POLL WAS 2 YEARS OLD when things were at their worst in Iraq...

Show me a recent poll... or stop your bullshit misleading lies...

 

[DeadCanDance]

Who is the Moron Moron?

first of all....

EVERY POLL WAS 2 YEARS OLD when things were at their worst in Iraq...

Show me a recent poll... or stop your bullshit misleading lies...

Poll from 4 months ago, Sept. 2007:

September 2007

Poll of Iraqis

-Was the the U.S. Invasion of Iraq right, or wrong?

Absolutely, or somewhat right = 37%
Absolutely, or somewhat wrong = 63%


-Do you support or oppose the presence of Coalition forces in Iraq?

Strongly, or somewhat support = 21%
Srongly, or somewhat oppose = 79%


-Are attacks on Coalition forces acceptable, or unacceptable?

Acceptable = 57%
Unacceptable = 43%

 

[mattskramer]

Who is the Moron Moron?

first of all....

EVERY POLL WAS 2 YEARS OLD when things were at their worst in Iraq...

Show me a recent poll... or stop your bullshit misleading lies...

Okay. Here is a 2007 poll. It is actually less than a year old.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/19_03_07_iraqpollnew.pdf

Some things of interest:

Question 27: When asked how long US forces should remain, 35 percent said “Leave Now” while only a few more said to remain until security is restored. Yet, look at the following questions:

Question 28: Overall, 68 percent think the presence of US forces in Iraq is making security worse.

Question 29: Overall, 77 percent think that the USA is playing a negative role in Iraq.

Interpret it as you see fit. When I consider the poll as a whole, I don’t think that the Iraqi citizens think very highly of our presence. A large percentage of them want us to leave soon.

 

[mattskramer]

Poll from 4 months ago, Sept. 2007:

Wow. Nice find. You are better at this than I am.

 

[Alucard]

Poll from 4 months ago, Sept. 2007:

Great Poll...

From a source who's lead story is "SURGE TO NOWHERE"

get the hell out of here... somethings never change...

 

[mattskramer]

Great Poll...

From a source who's lead story is "SURGE TO NOWHERE"

get the hell out of here... somethings never change...

Should I criticize the mailman for sending me a bill that I don’t want to pay? He did not present “SURGE TO NOWHERE” for debate. He presented the Poll. Now, how about criticizing the actual poll in question? I guess that your only criticism, as fallacious as it is, is that you don’t like the BBC, ABC NEWS, NHK, OR USA TODAY. Those are sources too.

HTTP://WWW.IRAQANALYSIS.ORG/INFO/55

OPINION POLL FOR BBC, ABC NEWS AND NHK (10 Sept 2007)

About 70% of Iraqis believe security has deteriorated in the area covered by the US military "surge" of the past six months.

Suggests that 'the overall mood in Iraq is as negative as it has been since the US-led invasion in 2003'. Only 29% think things will get better in the next year, compared to 64% two years ago. Nearly 60% see attacks on US-led forces as justified. This rises to 93% among Sunni Muslims compared to 50% for Shia. Growing disparity between Shia and Sunni satisfaction levels.
USA Today provide further analysis, numerous graphs, and detailed poll data

Perhaps you don’t like D3 Systems.

http://www.iraqanalysis.org/info/55

OPINION POLL BY D3 SYSTEMS, FEB-MAR 2007 (19 March 2007)

Poll of 2,212 people conducted from 25 February to 5 March 2007, in all 18 provinces. Covered political, security and economic questions. This is the 3rd such poll since 2003, allowing some comparison across time.

Look. The polls are listed. Information is given about who ran the polls. So the web site might be biased. That is irrelevant as to whether or not the polls are accurate and reflect the sentiment of the people of Iraq.

You clearly lost the argument, but keep laughing.

 

[DeadCanDance]

Great Poll...

From a source who's lead story is "SURGE TO NOWHERE"

get the hell out of here... somethings never change...

TRANSLATION: "I've been presented numerous polls, of different vintages, by a wide variety of reputable mainstream polling companies, that support everything MattKramer was saying, and debunks everything RSG and I were saying....so I have nothing substantive to add."

 

[Zoomie1980]

Okay. Here is a 2007 poll. It is actually less than a year old.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/19_03_07_iraqpollnew.pdf

Some things of interest:

Question 27: When asked how long US forces should remain, 35 percent said “Leave Now” while only a few more said to remain until security is restored. Yet, look at the following questions:

Question 28: Overall, 68 percent think the presence of US forces in Iraq is making security worse.

Question 29: Overall, 77 percent think that the USA is playing a negative role in Iraq.

Interpret it as you see fit. When I consider the poll as a whole, I don’t think that the Iraqi citizens think very highly of our presence. A large percentage of them want us to leave soon.

Ugh... another ultra-left mush-brained loon. Let's wait until we have a legitimate 2008 poll of the iraqi people by a repubalbe polling agency like gallup.

Unitl then I turn a deaf ear to anything else.

The surge has been a TACTICAL home run. The Iraqi government will determine if it had STRATEGIC significance.

 

[Zoomie1980]

TRANSLATION: "I've been presented numerous polls, of different vintages, by a wide variety of reputable mainstream polling companies, that support everything MattKramer was saying, and debunks everything RSG and I were saying....so I have nothing substantive to add."

Polls that were taken WELL BEFORE the surge had even taken place.

Try again loon

 

[RetiredGySgt]

If the polls made conclusions with which you agree, would you also be asking these questions? I doubt it. I don’t know how the Iraqi’s were reached. Perhaps some brave journalists decided to take chances and go into the Iraqi towns and ask the citizens and ask the people how they felt. If you are that interested, contact USAToday and ask it.

I am on record as thinking polls are nearly useless, they are easily swayed to say what ever the people making the poll want it to say.

That you do not care that there was almost no chnace any poll before a couple months ago could not possibly have been conducted with even a semblence of impartiality nor that the polls could not have even been ask of a majority of people in the areas that matter tells me what YOUR agenda is.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Mattkramer has provided an enormous amount of empirical, statistical data from reputable mainstream polling companies to support his position.

Let's see Bush voters put aside their gut feelings and guesses, and provide scientific polls from mainstream polling companies, to support their position that majorities of Iraqis want the american Army to stay in iraq longterm, for years or decades on end.

In short, Where's your evidence?

I'll check back.

Polls are not evidence of anything, they are easily manipulated and easily rigged to provide the data the "source" of the poll wants to convey, further if a poll doesn't say what the "source" wants, guess what? We never see said poll.

There is absolutely no way an independent, balanced, impartial poll could be conducted in Iraq before at least this summer and even then it is highly unlikely, so there is not even a pretense of any of those standards in this case.

Now what DOES matter is what the Iraqi Government wants, since it is legally elected and answerable to the people of Iraq. And what THEY want is for us to stay. There is NO effort to "kick" us out. All that is now happening is what you whiners have been claiming you wanted all along, the Iraqis are starting to take over the actually day to day fighting. We will phase out of most combat roles except as advicers and reaction forces and revert to support and logistics and a US presence that ensures Iran can not invade for fear we will retaliate.

When the ELECTED Government asks us to actually leave completely from Iraq, get back to me on all the claims we are "occupying" said Country.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

TRANSLATION: "I've been presented numerous polls, of different vintages, by a wide variety of reputable mainstream polling companies, that support everything MattKramer was saying, and debunks everything RSG and I were saying....so I have nothing substantive to add."

Translation.... I am a retard that thinks I can bullshit my way around reality and the truth and pretend I am right. Thanks for playing Dumb as dead..

 

[DeadCanDance]

Translation.... I am a retard that thinks I can bullshit my way around reality and the truth and pretend I am right. Thanks for playing Dumb as dead..

Empirical, scientific polling MattKramer has provided to support his assertion:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/h...raqpollnew.pdf

http://www.iraqanalysis.org/info/55

HTTP://WWW.IRAQANALYSIS.ORG/INFO/55

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGPOLDIHT1.DTL

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...092601721.html

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...-opinion_x.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0927-03.htm

http://www.usatoday.com/news/graphic...poll/flash.htm

Empirical, scientific polling RSG and the other dude have provided to support their assertions:

.

One poster is debating and supporting their position, with data from credible, mainstream scientific polling sources.

The Bush voters have no data, no polling, no statistically valid numbers to support their assertion.


One of these posters is backing up their argument with empirically robust data, the other posters are relying on gut feeling, and guesswork. We report, you decide.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

A poll is neither proof nor evidence of anything other than a few people's opinion. You can claim it is not so all you want, doesn't change the fact a poll is not evidence of anything other than that sample of people's opinion based on how the questions were worded and asked.

 

[DeadCanDance]

A poll is neither proof nor evidence of anything other than a few people's opinion. You can claim it is not so all you want, doesn't change the fact a poll is not evidence of anything other than that sample of people's opinion based on how the questions were worded and asked.

One poll does not an argument make.

But, Matt has given you an ocean of polls supporting his position.

I'm still waiting for you to give ONE single, solitary piece of empirical data, from a credible scientific polling company, to support yours.

The fact that you haven't speaks volumes. All you got are your gut feelings, and love for the greatness of King George.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

One poll does not an argument make.

But, Matt has given you an ocean of polls supporting his position.

I'm still waiting for you to give ONE single, solitary piece of empirical data, from a credible scientific polling company, to support yours.

The fact that you haven't speaks volumes. All you got are your gut feelings, and love for the greatness of King George.

I do not use polls, they are not proof of anything. I can point you to the Iraqi Government though and what THEY say. And that is all that matters.