Iraq: A New War and an Old War

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Publius, Jun 4, 2004.

  1. Publius
    Online

    Publius Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    While JFK was in office he did a strange thing: he started a new TYPE of war with vietnam. Since Alexander, Hannibal Barca, Caesar, Napoleon, Lee, Rommel and Patton wars have been fought over territory. The idea is simple enough, you own what you conquer and can do what you want with it accordingly. Vietnam was a war for people's opinions, for their thoughts. Iraq is the same type of war, and it is a difficult one.

    The essence of Rome's success was her ability to make the people she conquered accept her way of life. Rome offered culture, peace, and stability to people. People accepted accordingly because she offered a better way of life.

    In Iraq, we have not conquered. We chose not to. When we first arrived people were receptive, because they expected to be conquered by a much stronger enemy. Our kindness is mistaken for weakness and impotence. We offer a better way; but we never delivered the "shock and awe" we promised. We are percieved as deceptive and weak by those who did not want us there to start. This type of war has yet to be won by anyone as evinced by Kennedy's failure in Vietnam. First times for everything?

    Publius
     
  2. NewGuy
    Online

    NewGuy Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    The essence of Rome's failure was the adoption of ethics equivalent to the socialistic and liberal politics being used and promoted in America today.

    No. We will not and cannot win. We went in with an ideology and let ourselves get corraled by world politics and opinions. No matter which way we go from here, we lose in that realm wether we win militarily or not.

    -Mainly due to above example of American socialism already OWNING the politics of the EU and UN and the other nations predominantly as well.
     
  3. OCA
    Offline

    OCA Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2004
    Messages:
    7,014
    Thanks Received:
    223
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Washington D.C.
    Ratings:
    +223
    Pretty much Iraq is a draw. We removed Hussein but we did not kill enough of the assholes to make a big difference. Power will be handed over on June 30 and it will not be too far after that the country will be plunged into civil war then its anybody's guess as to what will happen then. I think when history looks back on this they will say we had good intentions and it was the right thing to do unfortunately our leadership did not learn 1 lesson from Vietnam, that being that wars cannot be fought from D.C. and they cannot be fought according to what political correctness dictates. Our general's hands were tied by politicians therefore not allowing us to root out and kill all insurgents. We were too worried about civilians and mosques and what the wacko left would say, lets face it Bush has been in a 4th quarter prevent defense for a while now and the enemy has basically picked it apart, all because of a fucking election. What Bush fails to realize is the people want a decisive victory like, well take your pick of WWII campaigns, they don't care about civilian deaths just get the fucking job done.

    I'm afraid that Iraq may be a bigger shithole after we leave than we found it all because we seem to lack the stomach for all out bloody war.

    All this said i'm still going to vote for Bush hoping that once the election is over and he never has to worry about reelection again he will unleash the dogs of war wherever they need to bark.
     
  4. Publius
    Online

    Publius Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    First let me say thank you, I must have been over in the BOCES chat section earlier...check out my other posts under Israel/Palestine

    1. Agreed, Civil war is a serious possiblity in Iraq. I just hope we leave first so we're not band-aiding muslims for the next 8 yrs.
    2. Yes. But here, the job we undertook was so vague...we could level the country and not complete the objective.
    3. Lets hope it's later than sooner, and it's not N.Korea
     
  5. Zhukov
    Offline

    Zhukov VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,492
    Thanks Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Everywhere, simultaneously.
    Ratings:
    +301
    I think things are going swell in Iraq.

    I don't think it will devolve into a civil war.

    I think the only worry is a terrorist decapitation strike on the new Iraqi government sometime next year. If the new Iraqi government is competent enough to secure itself, everything will be fine.

    If once a month a terrorist bomb goes off in Iraq killing 5-20 Iraqis, I can assure you no one in this country will care. Well, the media won't at any rate, so we'll never know.

    I'll say this though. This is a battle for territory, just as Vietnam was.

    Democracy vs. Militant Islam/Totalitarianism

    instead of

    Democracy vs. Communism


    Let's hope it's sooner than too late.
     
  6. Publius
    Online

    Publius Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
     
  7. Zhukov
    Offline

    Zhukov VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,492
    Thanks Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Everywhere, simultaneously.
    Ratings:
    +301
    This is something I would hope the President, his administration, and the top Iraqi officials themselves all realize. Whether is it palatable to some or not, Iraq will require a strong hand.

    There was no danger whatsoever of another civil war after the Great Patriotic War . He killed those 20 million people because he was a paranoid (clinically diagnosed).

    Iraq is now open territory for capitalist expansion and exploitation where as before it was not. It is everday becoming safer to do business there.

    A war for territory does not mean it will be occupied by us, only that our enemy is deprived of it.
     
  8. menewa
    Offline

    menewa Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2004
    Messages:
    474
    Thanks Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Denton, Texas
    Ratings:
    +13
    Turning Iraq into a secular Republic with a capitalist economy is the exact thing that many fundamentalists Muslims fear. Capitalism and secularism would destory many of their Koranic laws and expose the youth to the fun of consumerism and equal rights. So no matter what kind of great republic gets installed there, chaos will most likely continue until the majority of Iraqis learn that SUVs, cable TV and countless consumer goods far outweigh any kind of religious enlightenment.

    In America, probably the first true secular government in the world, fundamentalists Christians are just as outraged. They no, longer get to stone homosexuals and beat insubordinate wives and tell people what they can and can't listen to.

    But to me, I think America's secularism has been her greatest strength.

    To hell with all religious zealots.

    However, if the US would let Iraq spinter into several smaller nations, the outcome may be more peaceful and benign.

    Why do you think the Bush Admin. seems so opposed to allowing Iraq split up? The Soviet Union scattered into a plethora of new nations after shedding their authoritarian regime. The same should be done in Iraq to facilitate peace. Also, the Kurdish region in the north seems to be doing great because they have a lot of autonomy.
     
  9. Zhukov
    Offline

    Zhukov VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2003
    Messages:
    3,492
    Thanks Received:
    301
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Everywhere, simultaneously.
    Ratings:
    +301
    It's not a good idea.

    1.) You give the Kurds autonomy and suddenly they want the Kurdish lands in Syria, Turkey, and Iran. "We want a Kurdistan," they say, start trouble across the borders, and suddenly Kurds are being exterminated in three different countries.

    2.) Iraqis or more nationalisitc than many other moslem citizens of the middle east. If you start to seperate parts you're going to get another Yugoslavia with every group wanting to extend their borders just a little bit into their neighbor's yard to make their Iraq. That will cause the civil war.
     
  10. Abuwaleed
    Online

    Abuwaleed Guest

    Ratings:
    +0
    i canot believe sum of the fngs that ur saying, like lets have an allout bloody war and who cares about the civilians, then if that is the case who cares about the civilians in america who were killed. Lets jst get the bloody job done.
    America will never be able to destroy and defeat iraq, u rely to much on ur military technology. i congratulate u that u have such technology and surley if u have it u shud use it but ur soldiers are cowards. All ur soldiers are drug dealers and young hispanics who bush is jst sending to die for the political aganda of the zionists.
    Look how clever the zionists are. They truly have much enmity for the muslims and this is clearly known. How clever they are, sending the american to die for there cause.truly your lives mean nothing to them. The mujahdeen are the gratest warriors because they are not afraid to die.
    Regardless of ur military mite ul never defeat neone. Take alook at chechnya how russia is using its whole military might to destroy the muslims yet they cant. Everyday they loose men to a band of freedom fighters.
    U call them terrorists but when the french were using the same tatics agains the wehrmacht and germans they were freedom fighters.
    The essence of this is its one rule for u and one for us.
    I hope Iraq boils in to an allout bloody war between the sincere mujahideen of iraq and the us military forces and their allied mercenaries. Lets wait for this day and see what happens. It will be all like vietnam and ur people will be beginning bush to bring the soilders home. History is repeating it self.
    The mujahideen of Iraq are better equipped then there brothers in afghanistan yet there brothers managed to defeat russia and still continue in war operations against america.
    whenever a great attack happens in IRAQ u blame it on foreign extermists. U r fooling urself. This is the struggle of iraq and ul never succeed.
     

Share This Page