Intelligence source codenamed "Curveball" admits lying about WMD

[rightwinger]

This is even funnier:

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear.
We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

Thats odd...

I didn't see Clinton asking to invade Iraq

But wait.. the point was that Bush lied. Ok, now not so much.. anyhoo... don't the words " and we have to use force" pretty much sum it up? Or, was Clinton just blustering, as usual? And yes, I know he didn' invade Irraq. He chose to invade an intern instead.

No....the point is that Bush looked at the same intel that Clinton and the rest of the free world had and decided to invade

The point is that Bush ignored all evidence to the contrary

The point is that Bush ignored the advice of the UN Weapons Inspectors

The point is that Bush began planning the invasion immediately after 9-11 even though Iraq was not involved in the attack

 

[NYcarbineer]

How could that be? Bush is a moron and they're all genius'.

No, you're a moron for happily wishing for the needless deaths of thousands of young American soldiers.

You are a disgrace.

Wow, how do you come to that conclusion? WTF did your parents do to you?

You wanted a war that wasn't necessary.

It was inevitable that Americans would die in that war.

Therefore,

you wished for the unnecessary deaths of American soldiers.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Oh Carbonated one... your decent into madness is hilarious. What happened man? To much pot?

I say "tomato" and you reply "Floyd the Barber"

 

[Sallow]

Just pointing out the fullofshitedness of the claim that Bush made it all up. That's all.

Bush didn't "make it up". He had an agenda going in..and it was buttressed by the PNAC, who were unsuccessful in goading President Clinton to attack Iraq. Bush was talking about attacking Iraq during the election..and his mind didn't change once he won. He made multiple appointments from the PNAC. Once 9/11 happened they cherry picked intel to make the case..for invasion.

That's been known well before the troops even hit Iraq. The rest of the country is just now catching up.

Time to change the foil there buddy.

Cool beans.

Feel free to take the post apart..point by point.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

No, you're a moron for happily wishing for the needless deaths of thousands of young American soldiers.

You are a disgrace.

Wow, how do you come to that conclusion? WTF did your parents do to you?

You wanted a war that wasn't necessary.

It was inevitable that Americans would die in that war.

Therefore,

you wished for the unnecessary deaths of American soldiers.

I did? When have I ever said this? Have you lost your mind?

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Bush didn't "make it up". He had an agenda going in..and it was buttressed by the PNAC, who were unsuccessful in goading President Clinton to attack Iraq. Bush was talking about attacking Iraq during the election..and his mind didn't change once he won. He made multiple appointments from the PNAC. Once 9/11 happened they cherry picked intel to make the case..for invasion.

That's been known well before the troops even hit Iraq. The rest of the country is just now catching up.

Time to change the foil there buddy.

Cool beans.

Feel free to take the post apart..point by point.

If it were anything other than left wing conspiracy nuttiness, I'd be glad to. I file it away with the 9/11 Truth movement and the Clinton had a gazillion people murdered insanity.

 

[kiwiman127]

Man admits to WMD lies that triggered Gulf War (The Guardian)

And he found a President gullible enough to believe him, even when evidence told a different story. Over 5,000 dead US and many more Iraqis. Nearly a Trillion dollars spent on a lie.

Pathetic. Come back when you're ready to address the fact that the previous admin and the Israeli and British intel agencies (among many others) believed there to be WMD's in Iraq.

This nonsense got old years ago.

Using what the Dems said in the 90's is really BS.

Before you go to war, you gather intel to not only justify going to Congress but the American people. There was no intent to go to war with Iraq during the late 90's.
GWB did in fact gather up new intel. Now it was well known that our intelligence community didn't have many feet on the ground. Thus, the goings in and out of intelligence in the building a case by the Bushies. It is documented that the Bushies were not happy with the intelligence they were getting because there was a lack of intelligence to build the case for invasion. The Bushies actually got mad because of this and demanded more intelligence for invading.
An example would be the aluminum tubes for Saddam's alleged nuclear program. One
junior analyst at the C.I.A claimed the tubes were for nuclear centrifuges. Yet our own Department of Energy's top nuclear scientist said the tubes were not capable of enhancing any nuclear program. That opinion was also backed by the IAEA. The Bushies went with the junior analyst's judgment and that what was presented to Congress and the American people.

 

[Sallow]

Time to change the foil there buddy.

Cool beans.

Feel free to take the post apart..point by point.

If it were anything other than left wing conspiracy nuttiness, I'd be glad to. I file it away with the 9/11 Truth movement and the Clinton had a gazillion people murdered insanity.

That's fine.

And I file this away of the part of the population that blindly let the government steamroll us into one of the biggest war crimes ever.

Keep shopping Soggy..your country needs you. And how about those Green Bay Packers, huh?

 

[BlindBoo]

Man admits to WMD lies that triggered Gulf War (The Guardian)

And he found a President gullible enough to believe him, even when evidence told a different story. Over 5,000 dead US and many more Iraqis. Nearly a Trillion dollars spent on a lie.

Nope the President just wanted something he could use for propaganda.

Bush knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction

Bush knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction - Iraq war - Salon.com

On Sept. 18, 2002, CIA director George Tenet briefed President Bush in the Oval Office on top-secret intelligence that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, according to two former senior CIA officers. Bush dismissed as worthless this information from the Iraqi foreign minister, a member of Saddam's inner circle, although it turned out to be accurate in every detail. Tenet never brought it up again.

Nor was the intelligence included in the National Intelligence Estimate of October 2002, which stated categorically that Iraq possessed WMD. No one in Congress was aware of the secret intelligence that Saddam had no WMD as the House of Representatives and the Senate voted, a week after the submission of the NIE, on the Authorization for Use of Military Force in Iraq. The information, moreover, was not circulated within the CIA among those agents involved in operations to prove whether Saddam had WMD.

 

[BlindBoo]

Anyone else find it "interesting" this comes OUT NOW?

Yes, because we knew in 2002 from the Germans that Curveball was a lying sack of shit. President Bush intentionally ignored the vetted CIA information given to him directly by the CIA chief in the Sept 18th 2002 breifing, that Iraq had no WMD. By now publisizing Curveballs lies they are trying to revise the history of why went invaded and occupied Iraq.

 

[California Girl]

Anyone else find it "interesting" this comes OUT NOW?

Yes, because we knew in 2002 from the Germans that Curveball was a lying sack of shit. President Bush intentionally ignored the vetted CIA information given to him directly by the CIA chief in the Sept 18th 2002 breifing, that Iraq had no WMD. By now publisizing Curveballs lies they are trying to revise the history of why went invaded and occupied Iraq.

Your theory might be more valid.... if (and it is a big if).... this was coming from the US. It isn't. Nor is it coming from anyone with a pro-Bush agenda.... because it's from the Guardian newspaper... that's a left wing British paper. They're pretty anti-Bush. So, epic fail on that conspiracy theory.

 

[BlindBoo]

Anyone else find it "interesting" this comes OUT NOW?

Yes, because we knew in 2002 from the Germans that Curveball was a lying sack of shit. President Bush intentionally ignored the vetted CIA information given to him directly by the CIA chief in the Sept 18th 2002 breifing, that Iraq had no WMD. By now publisizing Curveballs lies they are trying to revise the history of why went invaded and occupied Iraq.

Your theory might be more valid.... if (and it is a big if).... this was coming from the US. It isn't. Nor is it coming from anyone with a pro-Bush agenda.... because it's from the Guardian newspaper... that's a left wing British paper. They're pretty anti-Bush. So, epic fail on that conspiracy theory.

Don't care where it's coming from. The CIA knew in 2002 that Curveball was a fraud!

The CIA officers assigned to Sabri still argued within the agency that his information must be taken seriously, but instead the administration preferred to rely on Curveball. Drumheller learned from the German intelligence service that held Curveball that it considered him and his claims about WMD to be highly unreliable. But the CIA's Weapons Intelligence, Nonproliferation, and Arms Control Center (WINPAC) insisted that Curveball was credible because what he said was supposedly congruent with available public information.

For two months, Drumheller fought against the use of Curveball, raising the red flag that he was likely a fraud, as he turned out to be. "Oh, my! I hope that's not true," said Deputy Director McLaughlin, according to Drumheller's book "On the Brink," published in 2006. When Curveball's information was put into Bush's Jan. 28, 2003, State of the Union address, McLaughlin and Tenet allowed it to pass into the speech. "From three Iraqi defectors," Bush declared, "we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs ... Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them." In fact, there was only one Iraqi source -- Curveball -- and there were no labs.

When the mobile weapons labs were inserted into the draft of Powell's United Nations speech, Drumheller strongly objected again and believed that the error had been removed. He was shocked watching Powell's speech. "We have firsthand descriptions of biological weapons factories on wheels and on rails," Powell announced. Without the reference to the mobile weapons labs, there was no image of a threat.

Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, Powell's chief of staff, and Powell himself later lamented that they had not been warned about Curveball. And McLaughlin told the Washington Post in 2006, "If someone had made these doubts clear to me, I would not have permitted the reporting to be used in Secretary Powell's speech." But, in fact, Drumheller's caution was ignored.

Bush knew Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction - Iraq war - Salon.com

 

[BlindBoo]

Anyone else find it "interesting" this comes OUT NOW?

Yes, because we knew in 2002 from the Germans that Curveball was a lying sack of shit. President Bush intentionally ignored the vetted CIA information given to him directly by the CIA chief in the Sept 18th 2002 breifing, that Iraq had no WMD. By now publisizing Curveballs lies they are trying to revise the history of why went invaded and occupied Iraq.

Your theory might be more valid.... if (and it is a big if).... this was coming from the US. It isn't. Nor is it coming from anyone with a pro-Bush agenda.... because it's from the Guardian newspaper... that's a left wing British paper. They're pretty anti-Bush. So, epic fail on that conspiracy theory.

The German and the Brits knew Curveball was a fraud. From the OP's link:

"Even now, Curveball seems bemused that his lies got as far as they did. He says he thought the game was up by the end of 2000. By that point, the BND had flown to Dubai to interview his former boss at Iraq's military industrial complex, Dr Basil Latif, who had told them that his former underling was a liar.

Several British intelligence officers were present at the meeting with Latif. Their German counterparts left Dubai seeing their prized source in a new light.

According to them, Curveball had claimed that Latif's son, who was then at school in Britain, was a procurer of WMD. That information was easily proven wrong by the British spooks."

I find it very hard to believe that the intellegence groups in both Germany as well as England did not inform our CIA what they found out about Curveballs stories.

It's history.

 

[BlindBoo]

SNIP:

Democrat Quotes on Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction


"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002

read the rest here.
Democrat Quotes on WMD

Yep, people need to understand both parties are at fault for the Iraqi disaster and react accordingly.

Good post.

The two parties do act as one when it comes to our foriegn interventionisms.

 

[California Girl]

Yes, because we knew in 2002 from the Germans that Curveball was a lying sack of shit. President Bush intentionally ignored the vetted CIA information given to him directly by the CIA chief in the Sept 18th 2002 breifing, that Iraq had no WMD. By now publisizing Curveballs lies they are trying to revise the history of why went invaded and occupied Iraq.

Your theory might be more valid.... if (and it is a big if).... this was coming from the US. It isn't. Nor is it coming from anyone with a pro-Bush agenda.... because it's from the Guardian newspaper... that's a left wing British paper. They're pretty anti-Bush. So, epic fail on that conspiracy theory.

The German and the Brits knew Curveball was a fraud. From the OP's link:

"Even now, Curveball seems bemused that his lies got as far as they did. He says he thought the game was up by the end of 2000. By that point, the BND had flown to Dubai to interview his former boss at Iraq's military industrial complex, Dr Basil Latif, who had told them that his former underling was a liar.

Several British intelligence officers were present at the meeting with Latif. Their German counterparts left Dubai seeing their prized source in a new light.

According to them, Curveball had claimed that Latif's son, who was then at school in Britain, was a procurer of WMD. That information was easily proven wrong by the British spooks."

I find it very hard to believe that the intellegence groups in both Germany as well as England did not inform our CIA what they found out about Curveballs stories.

It's history.

So this is some left wing attempt to.... do what? What is the purpose of this coming out? Who benefits? Who needs to bury what by dragging this up at this particular time? Who has what to gain?

 

[BlindBoo]

Oh, W obviously did. We will be paying for that stupid decision for a long time.

We will be paying for the stupidity of obamaturd alot longer. Stop living in the past. Oh, by the way, i remember proof of wmd's? The fact that saddam gassed his own countrymen, and the empty gas canisters found buried in the desert.

Yessiree, and if you voted for Raygun at the time you too can say:

"And I helped"

Do you remember what the Reagan Administrations response was at the time?

 

[BlindBoo]

Clinton Signs Iraq Liberation Act

Iraq News, SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 1, 1998

By Laurie Mylroie The central focus of Iraq News is the tension between the considerable, proscribed WMD capabilities that Iraq is holding on to and its increasing stridency that it has complied with UNSCR 687 and it is time to lift sanctions. If you wish to receive Iraq News by email, a service which includes full-text of news reports not archived here, send your request to Laurie Mylroie .
I. CLINTON SIGNS IRAQ LIBERATION ACT, WHITE HOUSE STATEMENT, OCT 31
II. '99 APPROPRIATIONS BILL, IRAQ OPPOSITION, SIGNED BY CLINTON OCT 21
III. INC WELCOMES IRAQ LIBERATION ACT, PRESS STATEMENT, OCT 31

Today is the 89th day without weapons inspections in Iraq and the first
day without UNSCOM monitoring.

"Iraq News" is preparing an issue on Iraq's decision to suspend UNSCOM
monitoring. Meanwhile, this issue deals with the developments
regarding the policy promoted by Congress to deal with the Iraqi threat,
namely to overthrow Saddam.

Link

How clever of Bush to convince Clinton to look for wmds in Iraq, years before he became President.

Get some history first. Hint: UN sanctions.......

 

[jgarden]

Are you not even competent enough to link to the full report in the original article?

Curveball: How US was duped by Iraqi fantasist looking to topple Saddam | World news | The Guardian

For anyone who wants to read the actual report ^^^^^^. There is no need to increase the hit rate to some waste of space middleman site.

The fact that the Bush Administration would sent American troops into Iraq with the primary goal of capturing its chemical/bacterial weapons and yet not have a clue as to their whereabouts, shows total disregard for their welfare.

One would assume that the siezure and securing of stockpiles of Iraqi chemical/bacteria weapons would have been first on the military's priority list.

How could the Bush Administration know for a certainty that chemical/bacterial weapons existed in Iraq - and yet not know where even one of them was located?

 

[BlindBoo]

Man admits to WMD lies that triggered Gulf War (The Guardian)

And he found a President gullible enough to believe him, even when evidence told a different story. Over 5,000 dead US and many more Iraqis. Nearly a Trillion dollars spent on a lie.

Bush is an obvious liar and used that lie from curve ball even though the CIA told Bush it was was a lie.

This person is a naive fool in a brainwashed trance to not know Bush lied America into war after Bush created 911.

I can agree with you first statement because there is documentation to back it up that Curveball's lies were known by German and British officials who knew first hand.

The second statement is where you lose me......

 

[BlindBoo]

Man admits to WMD lies that triggered Gulf War (The Guardian)

And he found a President gullible enough to believe him, even when evidence told a different story. Over 5,000 dead US and many more Iraqis. Nearly a Trillion dollars spent on a lie.

There's something that's important to acknowledge here.

Skeptical US officials were NOT duped.

Bush and Cheney (along with numerous officials at the highest levels of the US Gov't like Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, and others) WANTED to invade Iraq. Iraq was one of the first topics of conversation within days after Bush took office.

Consequently, there was no source on the planet who would have been considered too unreliable to site as evidence (proof, really) that Saddam had WMDs if that person came forward to say he did.

Jon (Yeah, that's the ticket) Lovitz could have made a guest appearance on SNL to say that Saddam had WMDs, and they probably would have played that video at the UN as supporting evidence.

You are aware, are you not, that congress voted for this, right? It was a bipartisan effort.

Tenet never briefed Congress like he did the Whitehouse in Sept 2002 with the information that Curveball was a liar.