Income Inequality

[Againsheila]

One can argue about why this is happening. Some say it's the result of a decline in workers' bargaining power as labor unions have weakened, while others blame the rise of offshoring and outsourcing. But despite the best efforts of some commentators, there's really no serious debate about the overall realignment of income in our age: The already super-rich have vastly increased their share of the pie--at the expense of everyone else.

Off-the-charts income gains for super-rich - Yahoo! News

Go to the link and see the chart. It's disgusting. I can't believe Americans haven't risen up in revolt already.

 

[boedicca]

I doubt those stats include transfer payments from the government for the lower income levels.

 

[william the wie]

I doubt those stats include transfer payments from the government for the lower income levels.

Worse yet the figures are not adjusted for age or difference in annual percentage returns needed to see those effects. The actual difference in returns needed to get those results barely rises above what would be expected by chance.

 

[Old Rocks]

I graduated from high school in 1962. 1963 was my first full year of work. I worked for entry level wages, and did a lot of overtime. My parents bought a big old house that year for the exact amount that I grossed for the whole year.

Now consider that. And tell me that the working man or woman has made any gains since then. Where could you buy a large nice house today for the gross of an entry level wage, even with a lot of overtime? Where can you even rent a nice house on just an entry level wage?

Today we see rapid inflation in nearly every sector. And the only group of people whose income is increasing faster than that inflation are the very wealthy.

 

[Againsheila]

Interesting how few posts there are here, as if Americans refuse to admit what's happening to their country or they might have to do something about it.

We ARE a 3rd world nation. In fact our income gap is now worse than many 3rd world nations. It's worse than France's was when they had their revolution.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Interesting how few posts there are here, as if Americans refuse to admit what's happening to their country or they might have to do something about it.

We ARE a 3rd world nation. In fact our income gap is now worse than many 3rd world nations. It's worse than France's was when they had their revolution.

You could confiscate all the rich peoples wealth and that still wouldn't fund all the programs you want implemented.

Bankers, like the ones in Obama Cabinet are ruining this nation. Rich people are not evil, the vast majority of them earned it.

 

[chikenwing]

The vast" wheres my check "crowd we have created just might have something to do with this question.

 

[Againsheila]

Interesting how few posts there are here, as if Americans refuse to admit what's happening to their country or they might have to do something about it.

We ARE a 3rd world nation. In fact our income gap is now worse than many 3rd world nations. It's worse than France's was when they had their revolution.

You could confiscate all the rich peoples wealth and that still wouldn't fund all the programs you want implemented.

Bankers, like the ones in Obama Cabinet are ruining this nation. Rich people are not evil, the vast majority of them earned it.

Yeah, right, they earned a 275% increase when the average persons income increased 3%....

 

[william the wie]

272% increase in share over 40 years, do you have any idea how puny a difference in relative returns that is?

 

[kiwiman127]

REAL WAGES
1964-2004
Average Weekly Earnings (in 1982 constant dollars)
For all private nonfarm workers
Year Real $ Change
1964 302.52
1965 310.46 2.62%
1966 312.83 0.76%
1967 311.30 -0.49%
1968 315.37 1.31%
1969 316.93 0.49%
1970 312.94 -1.26%
1971 318.05 1.63%
1972 331.59 4.26%
1973 331.39 -0.06%
1974 314.94 -4.96%
1975 305.16 -3.11%
1976 309.61 1.46%
1977 310.99 0.45%
1978 310.41 -0.19%
1979 298.87 -3.72%
1980 281.27 -5.89%
1981 277.35 -1.39%
1982 272.74 -1.66%
1983 277.50 1.75%
1984 279.22 0.62%
1985 276.23 -1.07%
1986 276.11 -0.04%
1987 272.88 -1.17%
1988 270.32 -0.94%
1989 267.27 -1.13%
1990 262.43 -1.81%
1991 258.34 -1.56%
1992 257.95 -0.15%
1993 258.12 0.07%
1994 259.97 0.72%
1995 258.43 -0.59%
1996 259.58 0.44%
1997 265.22 2.17%
1998 271.87 2.51%
1999 274.64 1.02%
2000 275.62 0.36%
2001 275.38 -0.09%
2002 278.91 1.28%
2003 279.94 0.37%
2004 277.57 -0.84%



Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

And to think worker productivity has risen 86% and the US economy has grown 90% since 1978.
Now whoever is holding the wages down is the culprit, you can't blame government for this BUT you can blame greed by those who drive the bottomline for the sake of dividends.
This also shows trickle down hasn't worked.

 

[Old Rocks]

The realistic euphism for 'trickle down' is 'piss on the peon'.

 

[Toronado3800]

REAL WAGES
1964-2004
Average Weekly Earnings (in 1982 constant dollars)
For all private nonfarm workers
Year Real $ Change
1964 302.52
1965 310.46 2.62%
1966 312.83 0.76%
1967 311.30 -0.49%
1968 315.37 1.31%
1969 316.93 0.49%
1970 312.94 -1.26%
1971 318.05 1.63%
1972 331.59 4.26%
1973 331.39 -0.06%
1974 314.94 -4.96%
1975 305.16 -3.11%
1976 309.61 1.46%
1977 310.99 0.45%
1978 310.41 -0.19%
1979 298.87 -3.72%
1980 281.27 -5.89%
1981 277.35 -1.39%
1982 272.74 -1.66%
1983 277.50 1.75%
1984 279.22 0.62%
1985 276.23 -1.07%
1986 276.11 -0.04%
1987 272.88 -1.17%
1988 270.32 -0.94%
1989 267.27 -1.13%
1990 262.43 -1.81%
1991 258.34 -1.56%
1992 257.95 -0.15%
1993 258.12 0.07%
1994 259.97 0.72%
1995 258.43 -0.59%
1996 259.58 0.44%
1997 265.22 2.17%
1998 271.87 2.51%
1999 274.64 1.02%
2000 275.62 0.36%
2001 275.38 -0.09%
2002 278.91 1.28%
2003 279.94 0.37%
2004 277.57 -0.84%



Source: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

And to think worker productivity has risen 86% and the US economy has grown 90% since 1978.
Now whoever is holding the wages down is the culprit, you can't blame government for this BUT you can blame greed by those who drive the bottomline for the sake of dividends.
This also shows trickle down hasn't worked.

That is one heck of a stat! I just might rep ya!

Part of the problem is Globalization. In 1964 it was a larger world.

American workers had less competition in the developed world just 19 years after WWII.

American workers had less competition from especially the third world. People just were not building electronics in Malaysia shipping them to St Louis like MEMC is planning on doing.

So first we had to compete with the Japanese who mercifully make as much as we do and are fair competition. Now we have to compete with the Vietnamese and other folks in huts.

Not to mention the usual evils of the post industrial revolution world.

Oh well. I know I am competing with some fella in Pakistan for a job, why should I expect to make more I suppose.

 

[Wiseacre]

Want me to tell you why the bottom 90% aren't getting a bigger piece of the pie? It's because they ain't worth it, they haven't gone out and gotten the education and the skills to make themselves worth more. That top 1%, we're talking about people earning over 250k right, they're making that much cuz they're busting their asses. We got laws that prevent discrimination in the workplace, if you aren't moving up it's mostly your own fault.

 

[Toronado3800]

Wise, what percentage of the population makes up the top 1% of earners?

I scored above average on them standardized tests. I bet it is 1%. That's one of one hundred. If I improve my workplace performance and join the top 1% then that bumps someone (you?) out of the 1% and back to the portion of the population which isn't gaining much.

The lowest 10% of the earners, well, we will do well to keep them from having to kidnap our children for ransom to earn a living.

It is percentages 98 to 11, most of the population I worry about. Them folks drive the economic engine which makes the United States not Mexico.

 

[Malcom X]

Income Inequality is not the problem. The problem is the slavery of income.

 

[kiwiman127]

Want me to tell you why the bottom 90% aren't getting a bigger piece of the pie? It's because they ain't worth it, they haven't gone out and gotten the education and the skills to make themselves worth more. That top 1%, we're talking about people earning over 250k right, they're making that much cuz they're busting their asses. We got laws that prevent discrimination in the workplace, if you aren't moving up it's mostly your own fault.

"It's because they ain't worth it". Amazing. Productivity up 86% and the American working class isn't worth it.
Obviously you are not educated, otherwise you'd understand the ramifications of the 86% growth in productivity and that the 90% increase in the US economy.
The American worker has consistently been at the top echelon in worker productivity in the world.

fraser.stlouisfed.org/publications/erp/page/14123/.../14123_ERP.pdf

With your post, I sure hope you were trying to be a comedian.

 

[Wiseacre]

Wise, what percentage of the population makes up the top 1% of earners?

I scored above average on them standardized tests. I bet it is 1%. That's one of one hundred. If I improve my workplace performance and join the top 1% then that bumps someone (you?) out of the 1% and back to the portion of the population which isn't gaining much.

The lowest 10% of the earners, well, we will do well to keep them from having to kidnap our children for ransom to earn a living.

It is percentages 98 to 11, most of the population I worry about. Them folks drive the economic engine which makes the United States not Mexico.

Well, we've got somewhere around 140 million employees, including part timers, so we're talking around 1.4 million people as the top 1% of earners I guess. I would say most of 'em are making under a million bucks/year but don't know that for sure. Many of these people started out at or near the bottom and moved up over the last 20 - 30 years or so. They earned their money IMHO, and should not be vilified for being successful.

I'll say this too, I think those numbers do not include taxes and are somewhat inflated. And I don't think the standard of living gap is anywhere near that large. Not when I see homeless people with those ipod things that cost a few hundred bucks plus another hundred or so for the monthly service. Or the people on the dole that have home entertainment systems.



PS: I've never made a 6 figure income in my life, don't expect to either cuz I don't play the lotto.

 

[xsited1]

One can argue about why this is happening. Some say it's the result of a decline in workers' bargaining power as labor unions have weakened, while others blame the rise of offshoring and outsourcing. But despite the best efforts of some commentators, there's really no serious debate about the overall realignment of income in our age: The already super-rich have vastly increased their share of the pie--at the expense of everyone else.

Off-the-charts income gains for super-rich - Yahoo! News

Go to the link and see the chart. It's disgusting. I can't believe Americans haven't risen up in revolt already.

Thank people like George Soros for buying politicians to get super rich while keeping everyone else down.

 

[Toronado3800]

Income Inequality is not the problem. The problem is the slavery of income.

Slavery of income? You mean our reliance on money? Expand if you will please.

 

[editec]

The kids posting here simply cannot know or remember what it USED to be like for American workers.

Most of them have no idea how much the working classes have lost in the last 40 years, and since some of these scions started out with multiple legs up that few people have, it panders to their conceiet to imagine that everything they have they earned and the working classes are going down because of their own foibles.

But ya know...I spend most of my life going to school with very wealthy kids and then, after I started work. making some of these pampered scions even richer, too.

And yes, many of them work hard, too, and are highly productive and thoroughly decent people, too, without doubt.

But they did not start out with nothing.

And everything they have they did not get by their own efforts and they KNOW IT, too, even if some of them are such cowards that they cannot even admit it to themselves.

They started out with every advantage this society can give the wealthy, and they also know they are so blessed because millions workers work damned hard to give them those advantages without any hope that THEIR children will ever have those sorts of chances that their masters children have.

There's nothing wrong with capitalism until the capitalists forget what it took for them to have all that capital.

And that is exactly why some of this board's scions, and this generation of scions generally are so brutish and basically lying to themselves and anybody else who will listen.

They know perfectly well if the playing field was truly on the level, they'd be struggling to keep their heads above water just like most of us.

So rather than accept that they're lucky to have had those opportunities that most people will never have, they choose to blame the victims of the system that supports them.

Basically many scions are nothing but self agandizing equivicators and they KNOW it.

Now perhaps, we will read the mythical bios from some here who imagine that we're going believe them when they tell us how they are self made men.

And a few of those stories will be in part true, too, no doubt.

But most of these stories will be heavily redacted such that the real advantages those people started out with will be overlooked or not mentioned.

Count on this to happen, because these self made man stories happen every time I post a post like this.

Some scions might be so clueless that they believe their own fables about their enormous compentence.

And let's face it, there's no hope for those idiots.