In the beginning...

[onefour1]

You all might find it surprising that Dr Hovind thinks my religion is false and probably of the devil. But regardless of this bias against my religion I still find truth in many of his words regarding evolution and dating techniques. Another guy who has been in the sciences for a long time who is a Christian is Chuck Missler. I like his video called "The Myths of Science - Challenging the Myths of Astronomy - Chuck Missler in The Electric Universe". Based on the responses I've gotten after veering off on the tangent of evolution and carbon 14 dating, I don't think anyone wants to debate those topics so I will want to get back on track with the Bible. I am a member of the LDS faith and we believe in creation ex materia as opposed to creation ex nihilo. On other words we do not believe that God created anything out of nothing. We believe that he only creates from that which is in existence. As Julie Andrews sings in the musical, "The Sound of Music", "Nothing comes from nothing" is what we believe. So when God created the heavens and the earth he created from that which already existed. Thus I find Chuck Missler's teaching in the above mentioned video of plasma to be quite interesting.

A unique teaching in my faith is that we not only believe that God is an infinite being, but that man himself is an infinite being also that has always existed. We believe that before man and woman were created or born, they lived with God and were his spirit sons and daughters. There is evidence of this in the bible:

Jeremiah 1:4-5
4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 9:1-3
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

In the above verse, who put it into the mind of the apostles that a man could have sinned prior to being born?

Proverbs 8:22-31
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

In the above verse, it speaks of wisdom and how it was with God from before the foundation of the earth. And the last verse tells us that wisdom spent its time in the habitable parts of God's earth and that wisdom's delights were with the sons of men.

In the Book of Revelation, John tells us that there was a war in heaven and that the war was between Michael and his angels and the Devil and his angels:

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

What I find interesting about this verse is that it occurred before Satan was cast out into the earth. It occurred before the days of the Garden of Eden because Satan was on the earth at that time. Now Michael and all his angels eventually overcome Satan and his angels. But how do they do it? Verse 11 tells us. They do it by the blood of the Lamb! In other words, they need the blood of the Lamb to overcome Satan. Why do they need the blood of the Lamb? Because they are mortal and are sinners! And the rest of this verse confirms that they were mortals by telling us that they loved not their lives unto the DEATH! So Michael and his angels who fought against the dragon before they were made or born into this world, eventually came to this earth and became mortal, needed the blood of the Lamb to overcome sin, and eventually died. These are biblical evidences that we lived prior to coming to this earth.

Every man and woman who has come to this earth and received a body were a part of the army of Michael and his angels who fought against Satan and his angels. The prophet Isaiah tells us of Satan and his fall from heaven:

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

In LDS Scripture we have the following account:

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Satan sought to exalt himself to be God and in so doing, he came up with a plan to force mankind to obey. In this way he thought he could save all mankind and none would be lost. But free agency was essential to the salvation of mankind. So God rejected Satan's plan and when he did, Satan rebelled and sought to turn away God's children from him. This was how the war in heaven began. And the Bible tells us that he drew away 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven:

Revelation 12:
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The third part of the stars of heaven were 1/3 of the host of heaven and they became his angels who fought against Michael and his angels. And they were cast down to the earth with Satan. The devil and his angels are on this earth but cannot receive a body. They want a body because receiving a body is a blessing of which I will discuss at a later time. But God has denied them a chance to receive one. This is why they desire to possess other's bodies. In fact, they would even take the body of swines than to be without a body:

Mark 5:2-13
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

 

[RandomVariable]

You all might find it surprising that Dr Hovind thinks my religion is false and probably of the devil. But regardless of this bias against my religion I still find truth in many of his words regarding evolution and dating techniques. Another guy who has been in the sciences for a long time who is a Christian is Chuck Missler. I like his video called "The Myths of Science - Challenging the Myths of Astronomy - Chuck Missler in The Electric Universe". Based on the responses I've gotten after veering off on the tangent of evolution and carbon 14 dating, I don't think anyone wants to debate those topics so I will want to get back on track with the Bible. I am a member of the LDS faith and we believe in creation ex materia as opposed to creation ex nihilo. On other words we do not believe that God created anything out of nothing. We believe that he only creates from that which is in existence. As Julie Andrews sings in the musical, "The Sound of Music", "Nothing comes from nothing" is what we believe. So when God created the heavens and the earth he created from that which already existed. Thus I find Chuck Missler's teaching in the above mentioned video of plasma to be quite interesting.

A unique teaching in my faith is that we not only believe that God is an infinite being, but that man himself is an infinite being also that has always existed. We believe that before man and woman were created or born, they lived with God and were his spirit sons and daughters. There is evidence of this in the bible:

Jeremiah 1:4-5
4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 9:1-3
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

In the above verse, who put it into the mind of the apostles that a man could have sinned prior to being born?

Proverbs 8:22-31
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

In the above verse, it speaks of wisdom and how it was with God from before the foundation of the earth. And the last verse tells us that wisdom spent its time in the habitable parts of God's earth and that wisdom's delights were with the sons of men.

In the Book of Revelation, John tells us that there was a war in heaven and that the war was between Michael and his angels and the Devil and his angels:

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

What I find interesting about this verse is that it occurred before Satan was cast out into the earth. It occurred before the days of the Garden of Eden because Satan was on the earth at that time. Now Michael and all his angels eventually overcome Satan and his angels. But how do they do it? Verse 11 tells us. They do it by the blood of the Lamb! In other words, they need the blood of the Lamb to overcome Satan. Why do they need the blood of the Lamb? Because they are mortal and are sinners! And the rest of this verse confirms that they were mortals by telling us that they loved not their lives unto the DEATH! So Michael and his angels who fought against the dragon before they were made or born into this world, eventually came to this earth and became mortal, needed the blood of the Lamb to overcome sin, and eventually died. These are biblical evidences that we lived prior to coming to this earth.

Every man and woman who has come to this earth and received a body were a part of the army of Michael and his angels who fought against Satan and his angels. The prophet Isaiah tells us of Satan and his fall from heaven:

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

In LDS Scripture we have the following account:

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Satan sought to exalt himself to be God and in so doing, he came up with a plan to force mankind to obey. In this way he thought he could save all mankind and none would be lost. But free agency was essential to the salvation of mankind. So God rejected Satan's plan and when he did, Satan rebelled and sought to turn away God's children from him. This was how the war in heaven began. And the Bible tells us that he drew away 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven:

Revelation 12:
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The third part of the stars of heaven were 1/3 of the host of heaven and they became his angels who fought against Michael and his angels. And they were cast down to the earth with Satan. The devil and his angels are on this earth but cannot receive a body. They want a body because receiving a body is a blessing of which I will discuss at a later time. But God has denied them a chance to receive one. This is why they desire to possess other's bodies. In fact, they would even take the body of swines than to be without a body:

Mark 5:2-13
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

Off topic but you might like this.
Dec 20, 2014

 

[RandomVariable]

You all might find it surprising that Dr Hovind thinks my religion is false and probably of the devil. But regardless of this bias against my religion I still find truth in many of his words regarding evolution and dating techniques. Another guy who has been in the sciences for a long time who is a Christian is Chuck Missler. I like his video called "The Myths of Science - Challenging the Myths of Astronomy - Chuck Missler in The Electric Universe". Based on the responses I've gotten after veering off on the tangent of evolution and carbon 14 dating, I don't think anyone wants to debate those topics so I will want to get back on track with the Bible. I am a member of the LDS faith and we believe in creation ex materia as opposed to creation ex nihilo. On other words we do not believe that God created anything out of nothing. We believe that he only creates from that which is in existence. As Julie Andrews sings in the musical, "The Sound of Music", "Nothing comes from nothing" is what we believe. So when God created the heavens and the earth he created from that which already existed. Thus I find Chuck Missler's teaching in the above mentioned video of plasma to be quite interesting.

A unique teaching in my faith is that we not only believe that God is an infinite being, but that man himself is an infinite being also that has always existed. We believe that before man and woman were created or born, they lived with God and were his spirit sons and daughters. There is evidence of this in the bible:

Jeremiah 1:4-5
4 Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

Ecclesiastes 12:7
7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

John 9:1-3
1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

In the above verse, who put it into the mind of the apostles that a man could have sinned prior to being born?

Proverbs 8:22-31
22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

In the above verse, it speaks of wisdom and how it was with God from before the foundation of the earth. And the last verse tells us that wisdom spent its time in the habitable parts of God's earth and that wisdom's delights were with the sons of men.

In the Book of Revelation, John tells us that there was a war in heaven and that the war was between Michael and his angels and the Devil and his angels:

Revelation 12:7-11
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

What I find interesting about this verse is that it occurred before Satan was cast out into the earth. It occurred before the days of the Garden of Eden because Satan was on the earth at that time. Now Michael and all his angels eventually overcome Satan and his angels. But how do they do it? Verse 11 tells us. They do it by the blood of the Lamb! In other words, they need the blood of the Lamb to overcome Satan. Why do they need the blood of the Lamb? Because they are mortal and are sinners! And the rest of this verse confirms that they were mortals by telling us that they loved not their lives unto the DEATH! So Michael and his angels who fought against the dragon before they were made or born into this world, eventually came to this earth and became mortal, needed the blood of the Lamb to overcome sin, and eventually died. These are biblical evidences that we lived prior to coming to this earth.

Every man and woman who has come to this earth and received a body were a part of the army of Michael and his angels who fought against Satan and his angels. The prophet Isaiah tells us of Satan and his fall from heaven:

Isaiah 14:12-17
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

In LDS Scripture we have the following account:

Moses 4:1-4
1 And I, the Lord God, spake unto Moses, saying: That Satan, whom thou hast commanded in the name of mine Only Begotten, is the same which was from the beginning, and he came before me, saying—Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor.
2 But, behold, my Beloved Son, which was my Beloved and Chosen from the beginning, said unto me—Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever.
3 Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me, and sought to destroy the agency of man, which I, the Lord God, had given him, and also, that I should give unto him mine own power; by the power of mine Only Begotten, I caused that he should be cast down;
4 And he became Satan, yea, even the devil, the father of all lies, to deceive and to blind men, and to lead them captive at his will, even as many as would not hearken unto my voice.

Satan sought to exalt himself to be God and in so doing, he came up with a plan to force mankind to obey. In this way he thought he could save all mankind and none would be lost. But free agency was essential to the salvation of mankind. So God rejected Satan's plan and when he did, Satan rebelled and sought to turn away God's children from him. This was how the war in heaven began. And the Bible tells us that he drew away 1/3 of all the hosts of heaven:

Revelation 12:
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

The third part of the stars of heaven were 1/3 of the host of heaven and they became his angels who fought against Michael and his angels. And they were cast down to the earth with Satan. The devil and his angels are on this earth but cannot receive a body. They want a body because receiving a body is a blessing of which I will discuss at a later time. But God has denied them a chance to receive one. This is why they desire to possess other's bodies. In fact, they would even take the body of swines than to be without a body:

Mark 5:2-13
2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3 Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4 Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11 Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12 And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13 And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand and were choked in the sea.

OK, sorry this is off topic but I'm confused. Where did the Book of Moses come from, or I mean how did it come about? Where did the material for chapter 1 come from for example. It is not in the KJV.

 

[onefour1]

Off topic but you might like this.
Dec 20, 2014

Thanks for posting the video RandomVariable. I will probably watch that about 2 or 3 more times.

 

[RandomVariable]

Off topic but you might like this.
Dec 20, 2014

Thanks for posting the video RandomVariable. I will probably watch that about 2 or 3 more times.

Since you liked that one don't miss this one. It is rather long but a lot of great stuff. The presenter is one of the Rosetta's scientists so he is not going to speculate very far at all but he does say, "Well, maybe this is what happened." but he and everyone in the room realizes that makes no sense at all. There are just no rational explanations for some of the observations. This thing is super weird. I am definitely going to enjoy keeping an eye on it.

 

[RandomVariable]

Off topic but you might like this.
Dec 20, 2014

Thanks for posting the video RandomVariable. I will probably watch that about 2 or 3 more times.

I'm sorry. That first video was not even the one I meant to post. And since I am posting another, one more.


It sings.

 

[September]

In the beginning...

There was CHAOS

​

 

[RandomVariable]

In the beginning...

There was CHAOS

​

Spoken like a true follower of Satan. You deny God.

 

[September]

In the beginning...

There was CHAOS

​

Spoken like a true follower of Satan. You deny God.

Who or what do you think conquered Chaos and brought Order to the cosmos?

I worship YHWH


​

 

[idb]

In the beginning...

There was CHAOS

​

In the beginning - back in 1955,
Man didn't know 'bout a rock n roll show,
And all that jive.
The white man had the schmaltz,
The black man had The Blues,
No one knew what they were gonna do,
But Tchaikovsky had the news...

 

[September]

In the beginning...

There was CHAOS

​

In the beginning - back in 1955,
Man didn't know 'bout a rock n roll show,
And all that jive.
The white man had the schmaltz,
The black man had The Blues,
No one knew what they were gonna do,
But Tchaikovsky had the news...

 

[sealybobo]

Back then it wasn't acceptable to admit you don't believe in god. How many people in Iran today admit they don't believe? Zero?

Home Iranian Atheists Association
Iranian Atheists Association was founded in 2013 by an ordinary Iranian citizen, Ramin Forghani.

There is one absolute you stated that is wrong. I wonder if there are any other.

He lives in Scotland you dumb shit! My buddy is an Iranian atheist too. He lives in fucking America. Did you not understand what I meant when I said there aren't any atheist Iranians living in Iran? Are you theists so stupid you look for the slightest flaw in someones comment in order to miss the big point? Its why we get frustrated discussing this with you. There is no god dummy!

Well he used to live in Iran. Thanks for looking that up for me. I might have some other stuff later for you.

Stop trying so hard to prove me wrong you miss the point. Newton was religious you say? So was I but one day I woke up. I'm free to say it but back then they were not.

Here. Look this one up for me. He is probably lives in Sweden.
I'm an openly atheist Iranian (living in Iran), Ask Me Anything (self.atheism)
I m an openly atheist Iranian living in Iran Ask Me Anything atheism

I'm surprised. I'll ask my iranian friend tomorrow.

 

[sealybobo]

Judaism and Christianity are considered 'eastern'.

'A god' is not 'God'.

Again, remember that the mere fact that sentences and questions can be grammatically formed does not mean they have effect outside the mind of the person forming them. They may make linguistic sense, but be without 'cosmic', existential meaning. Just because we can speak of something 'God ' cannot do does not mean that a Supreme Being is bound by our verbal mazes.

Well, that's not how the Old Testament explains it.

Our knowledge of psychology and linguistics is not that of four thousand years ago. Things were said in the manner thought to be understood at the time. Language is living, relative, human.

Consider: Our perceptions function by contrast. 'Up' depends upon 'down', right on left, black on white, etc. If God is God, God is all. There is no contrast. Therefore, it is impossible to perceive God directly, outside a personal revelation of its own order. Whatever anyone else has to say about God is so much prose, but nothing much more.

It is said the Jesus only taught in metaphors. Jesus left nothing written. Why, do you suppose?

'They' claim Jesus never wrote anything. But that seems extremely unlikely. What's more likely than he never wrote anything, is he did, and what he wrote contradicts established teachings so they burned it.

What school did he go to?

 

[sealybobo]

Does the phrase, "In the beginning" in Genesis chapter 1 refer to the beginning of the creation of this earth or does it refer to the beginning of everything that ever exists outside of God himself?

I've always read it as being this solar system as per "...God created the heavens and the earth." "Heavens" being the space around the Earth."

By necessity, the space around the space the solar system would occupy had to already exist for God to be floating there creating stuff inside of the space.

There are hundreds of billions of planets in our observable universe. The closest 1 to us is 70,000 years away at top speed. Just one. Knowing that don't you believe that life exists elsewhere and were just too small to know it? We only just begun understanding the universe and our place in it.

 

[onefour1]

OK, sorry this is off topic but I'm confused. Where did the Book of Moses come from, or I mean how did it come about? Where did the material for chapter 1 come from for example. It is not in the KJV.

The Book of Moses is part of the Revelations received by the Prophet Joseph Smith. It can be found in a collection of works known as the Pearl of Great Price. Here is a link to the LDS Scriptures: Scriptures LDS.org

Going back to why we believe having a body is so important is because we believe that God himself has a body of flesh and bones. We know that Jesus upon resurrecting appeared unto his apostles and showed them his resurrected body.

Luke 24:36-43
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

His resurrected body was made of flesh and bones as verse 39 points out. Some people believe that Jesus is a spirit but this verse shows us that he has a resurrected body. And 1 Corinthians 15 tells us that a resurrected body in incorruptible and immortal.

1 Corinthians 15:53
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Thus Jesus still has his body and will always have his immortal and incorruptible body. LDS scripture teaches us that when the body and the spirit are join together, they can receive a fullness of joy.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:33
33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;
34 And when separated, man cannot receive a fulness of joy.

But it is not Jesus only that has a resurrected body but the Father also. Another LDS verse tells us the following:

Doctrine and Covenants 130:22
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.

One of the great reasons for coming to this mortal life was to receive a body. It is an essential part of the plan of happiness. Resurrection is a basic doctrine of Christ. We will all eventually rise from the dead and receive an immortal and incorruptible body. The book of Hebrews teaches us:

Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This verse teaches us that Jesus is the brightness of the Fathers glory and he is in the express image of the person of the Father. In other words, Jesus is exactly like his father in every respect. This would indicate that the Father too has a body of flesh and bones. Man was also created in the image of God.

Genesis 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Our spirits are the literal offspring of God and for this reason the apostle Paul taught:

Acts 17:28-29
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

We are God's children in a very literal sense. The Lord said to David in a Psalm:

Psalms 82:6
6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

This Jesus also taught when the Pharisees accused him of blasphemy for claiming he was the son of God.

John 10:31-36
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

In a very literal sense, we are the offspring of God. We are his spirit children who have come to this earth to gain a body and to learn to live by faith.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Gaining a body is a critical reason why we came to this world. It was so important that the Father and Jesus brought about the resurrection of the body for all who receive one so that we will never lose it. We will live forever with our resurrected bodies. God himself and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones that are immortal and incorruptible. Because without them we could not receive a fullness of joy.

 

[idb]

...let there be light...sound...drums...guitar...ooooooh LET THERE BE ROCK!!!!

 

[there4eyeM]

What if God were to reveal that all previous religious teachings and writings were mere metaphor and that each individual had to have her/his own revelation, listening to none other?

 

[onefour1]

So what is the purpose of life? Why has God sent us here? If there is a God, why is there pain, suffering and death in the world? Isn't God all powerful, all knowing, and an all loving God? Why doesn't he do away with all the pain, suffering and death? How can there be a God if these things exist? If God is all powerful, all knowing, and an all loving God, why didn't he just make us perfect? Why didn't he simply create us to be like himself?

These are some of the questions that people have that many times lead them to not believe in the Father of spirits. I want to try and answer these questions. I served a mission for the church in Japan. At that time I had a strong testimony of God the Father and his son Jesus Christ. I knew in my heart that they both live and love us. Shortly after returning home from my mission, I took a course in college called Philosophy of Religion. The instructor was from India and he presented me with the concept that God was all powerful. To this I agreed. He also taught that God was all knowing. To this I also agreed. Lastly he taught that God is an all loving being. All these I had been taught and agreed with him on all three accounts. After agreeing with his 3 presumptions about God, he presented me with a very interesting question. He said, "If God is all knowing, all powerful, and an all loving being, then why didn't he make us perfect? Certainly if God is all powerful, then he would have the power to do so. If he is all knowing then he would definitely know how to do it. And if he is a God of perfect love, certainly he would spare us the pain, suffering and death of this world. So why didn't he? Does he not love us enough to spare us the agony? Does he not know how to do it? Perhaps he doesn't have the power?"

This line of reasoning led me to some serous contemplation, prayer and study. I didn't know how to answer this. This is what is known in Philosophy as "The problem of evil". Why does God allow evil in the world? The class ended and I still didn't know how to answer this question. I needed to know the answer to this. I continued to pray and study and about a month and a half later after the class had ended, I found my answer. The answer lies in understanding the true nature of God.

John 17:3
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

What type of being is God? I found that God is not a being with absolute power to do absolutely anything. I'm sure many have heard the great contradiction, "Can God make a rock so big that he can't lift it?" If he can, then he lacks being all powerful because he doesn't have the power to lift the rock. If he can't then he doesn't have the power to create such a rock. It is a contradiction. Other contradictions are, "Can God be absolutely evil and absolutely good at all times?", or "Can God create out of nothing that which has always existed?". These are contradictions in terms and are infinitely impossible. God, to me, is a being who can do all that is possible. I believe that there are infinite impossibilities that it is impossible to have the power to do. God is a being who can do all that is possible. In this way he is all powerful. So God works within the realm of possibilities. With this knowledge, my prayers and studies brought me to a doctrine of the LDS church that I hadn't contemplated before. It is found in the following verse:

D&C 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Many other Christian churches correctly teach that God the Father and Jesus Christ are self existing beings. But in the LDS Church we believe that we too are self existing beings. We believe that there never was a time when a part of us did not exist. That part of us that is self existent is known in this scripture as intelligence or the light of Truth. Joseph Smith taught in a sermon entitled "The King Follett Discourse" that intelligence or the light of truth is part of the mind of man. This same chapter also teaches that the matter of the universe is self existent as well.

33 For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy;

The concept I came to understand was that since we already existed and have always existed, we were what we were. God could not create us to be perfect because you cannot create that which already exists. The only way that God can get us to be more like him is to teach us and give us experience. Our intelligence has the capacity to be enlarged with knowledge and wisdom. We have the capacity to love with a much greater love. God wants us to be like him and has provided this earth life as a chance to learn more and receive a body. God is the ultimate being of free will. Nobody tells God what to do. He chooses to do good of his own volition. His knowledge and wisdom guide him in his choices. Those choices are always good and right. For God to teach us to be more like himself, it was essential that he give us freedom to choose. You cannot become more like God when somebody is forcing you. To be like God we must learn to do good in and of ourselves. Only then will we truly be like him. Satan had the wrong idea and wanted to rule by force. You just can't progress that way.

So God sent us to earth with free will to choose. He knew that many would choose wrongly but free will is the only way. He knew many of us would make mistakes so he provided a way for us to gain forgiveness and to repent of the wrong things we do. Some bad choices hurt and injure others. For this reason God gave us rules to live by. But God also gave us trials to test us to see how strong we've become in holding to that which is good. Pain, suffering and death are given to us to further our eternal growth. These things can give us experience by teaching empathy and love for our fellow beings. In the end we will all be resurrected and have immortality. But will we be good beings? Will we have learned to be a true loving and caring being like our Father and our Savior. This life's purpose is to learn to become like the Father of our spirits.


Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[there4eyeM]

Providing more words and more metaphors hardly proves those words are anything other that symbols. They may represent 'truth' to the person providing them, but that may not mean much to another.

It is said that God made humans in God's image.

With all the diversity in human beings of shape, color, size, capacities, etc., what possible 'image' of God is mankind?

Ponder that.

 

[onefour1]

In the pre-mortal existence before we came to this earth, God took many of the great intelligences that were self existent and made them his children by giving them a spirit body in the image of God. We were known as the Sons of God.

Job 38:3-7
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Proverbs 8:26-31
26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.
27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:
29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:
30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;
31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

Hebrews 12:9
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

But we were not as advanced as God. God is all knowing, all powerful, all loving, full of justice, equity, and truth. He is a merciful God as well. He rules in the heavens above and in the earth beneath. God in his infinite wisdom and love wanted his children to be the best they could be. He wanted them to be just like himself.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

John 17:20-23
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me

1 John 3:2
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

How could a God who loves his children with an endless love want any less for his children? But there was a problem that needed to be overcome. You see, God is a perfect being. He has established a law in the heavens and he must rule with equity and justice. And he has established laws in various parts of his vast kingdom. The highest part of his kingdom is the Kingdom of heaven. This is where God resides and only those who can abide by the law of that kingdom are allowed entrance therein. God cannot keep certain sinners out and let other sinners in. If so God would be an impartial God and an unjust God. For God to be god, he must rule in equity and justice. If he did not, he would not be God. Cleon Skousen once said, "God walks the razors edge of celestial law continually". He must always rule in truth, equity and justice. This is what makes him God. We and all his creations honor him for the perfect and just being that he is. God maintain his law in equity and justice always. The problem is that we are imperfect beings and God has made us His children and wants us to be with him forever and ever in his kingdom of heaven. He knows that all of us will make mistakes on our way. But once we break one of the laws of his kingdom, according to the law of justice we are not worthy to enter into his kingdom. According to the law of justice, we have broken the law and cannot return.

Romans 3:23
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:21
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

We have all fallen short and by the law are not justified in returning to our Father's Kingdom. But God is not just a God of justice, he is also a God of wisdom and perfect love. He loves us. He really loves us. Therefore God in his wisdom had a way to give us a second chance. In order to do this he had to come up with a way to overcome the demands of justice. The law required that the sinner could not come into the kingdom of heaven. God overcame this demand of justice with another demand of justice. First God requires that the sinner repent of his sins. This is important because if there is no change in the sinner, they still should not be allowed into the kingdom otherwise they would be robbing justice. Justice would not be served if the sinner did not stop his sinning no matter what else was done. Otherwise God's kingdom would be as a temple full of a den of thieves. But the wisdom of God was to create a great injustice that would need to be recompensed. If there were a great injustice, it would be imperative that God, being an all just being, would right the injustice. This would be the response of a just God. So here is the wisdom of God. He chooses his firstborn spirit child, who was a most excellent spirit in the pre-mortal life, one that he knew could come to this earth and not commit a single sin. He chooses Jesus, who was so faithful that he was chosen to be part of the Godhead before coming to the earth. He sends him to earth to set the example for all mankind and to teach them the true path of repentance and having faith in God. He teaches them to follow the Father and to be good beings. At the end of his mission, he suffers a suffering equivalent to what the punishment would be for all the sins of all mankind. This suffering caused Jesus to bleed great drops of blood from every pore of his body. This is what the scriptures tell us:

Luke 22:40-44
40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.
41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone’s cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,
42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Doctrine and Covenants 19:16-19
16 For behold, I, God, have suffered these things for all, that they might not suffer if they would repent;
17 But if they would not repent they must suffer even as I;
18 Which suffering caused myself, even God, the greatest of all, to tremble because of pain, and to bleed at every pore, and to suffer both body and spirit—and would that I might not drink the bitter cup, and shrink—
19 Nevertheless, glory be to the Father, and I partook and finished my preparations unto the children of men.

Jesus was prepared from the foundations of the earth to come as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. He was as a lamb without blemish.

1 Peter 1:19
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

It was absolutely critical that Jesus be a sinless sacrifice. If he were not, the plan of redemption would have failed. Let me ask you this one question: Was it just and fair that Jesus, a man who did no wrong, be punished and suffer to the extent that he suffered? The answer is a resounding NO! In fact, it was a great injustice that he should suffer at all. But the great God of Heaven permitted Jesus to voluntarily come to this earth and subject himself to evil and suffer exceedingly. They both did this so that a great injustice would be created. It now became imperative that a just God recompense Jesus for the unjust pain, suffering, and death that he went through. And it was just that he be recompensed to the extent of his suffering. The recompense that Jesus obtained from the Father was the right to grant forgiveness of sin to the repentant sinner. So now Jesus holds the keys of grace and mercy. But this can only apply to the repentant sinner. It was the just for the unjust. and justice in recompensing the Savior for the injustice he bore, overcame the demands of justice to keep the repentant sinner out of heaven.

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Did God have to provide the atonement? I don't thinks so. I think it was done out of pure love. God's creations love him and honor him because He first loved them. Does mercy rob justice? No, not one whit. It was an act of justice that the Christ be recompensed and he deserves the right to grant mercy, but only to the repentant sinner.

This was the single greatest act of love ever performed. God has given us second chances. May we all take advantage of His gift of loving kindness.