CDZ IMMIGRATION: Not what it is but what it should be.

[Flopper]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Legal immigration and stick to the naturalization act of the 1790's.

The Constitution of the 1990's however specified that all born on American soil are automatically citizens. That is a magnet for pregnant women in labor to cross the border where they will receive free hospitalization and a doctor to deliver their babies at U.S. taxpayer expense. And they know that we don't have the heart to send her home without the baby and it is illegal for us to deport the baby. That is why this practice earns the title of 'anchor babies' because it is the woman's ticket to not be deported.

We need a constitutional amendment to get away from jus soli and to make jus sanguinis (citizenship is determined by one or both parents being citizens) the law of the land.

That is just one provision among many to fix our broken immigration system.

Without birthright citizenship a person born in the US whose parents are residents, either legal or illegal will not be citizens nor will their offspring or any of their descendants. It would create a permanent underclass in our nation who lack the right to vote and other rights reserved for citizens. This is exactly what our forefathers came to America to escape. We pride ourselves on being a classless society where all men are created equal and it should remain so.

 

[Flopper]

When I start seeing employers prosecuted and serving jail time, I'll believe Trump is serious about stopping criminal illegal immigration. The GOP never has been before, and we don't see Sessions doing anything but making silly irrelevant noises, trying to create the fiction that he's 'serious', but we all know until employers quit hiring them, they're going to keep coming here, and staying. Without the employers, they go back home on their own mostly, except for the gang bangers and pimps.

We already have all the laws needed; they aren't being enforced, so why would new ones be any different?

I'm looking for an immigration policy that everybody can sign off on. Our current laws are lacking in several ways.

No, it's just that neither Party is allowing them to be enforced in the easiest and most effective way, and now we have local crime syndicates claiming their territories to be 'sanctuary cities', and they aren't going to jail either.

I'm pretty sure that we have a President and administration now who will enforce the law if we have a comprehensive immigration law. So let's leave what isn't happening for another discussion and focus on what the law should be in this one.

Comprehensive immigration reform would be impossible at this point in time and even it was possible, it certainly would not include most the proposed changes.

Why is it impossible? And what should be included in immigration reform?

I'm sure you can add. Republicans do not have sufficient numbers in congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform. Republicans will not accept amnesty and a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants and democrats will not support deporting undocumented immigrants that don't have criminal records. Democrats and Republican could probably agree on less controversial issues such as a better visa tracking system, a better E-Verify system, more stringent laws on hiring illegals, DACA, and possibly keeping families together but this is not comprehensive immigration reform. We would still have most of the same problems we have today.

In order to have immigration reform laws that will be enforced and last through both republican and democrat control of government would require that both sides make compromises on major issues and I don't see that happening today.

 

[Flopper]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

The poll is slanted heavily to right. Most liberals will not vote giving you the intended results. There is no question on amnesty. No question on refugees. No questions on a path to citizenship, Should there be a wall? Should the number of work permits be increased. Increased penalty for hiring illegals. Improvement in E-Verify. A better visa tracking system. Abandoning the quota system.

Most liberals are pro-labor and oppose criminal illegal immigration, and also favor drastically reducing legal immigration and handing out green cards. They backed Cesar Chavez, the GI Forum, and all the other latino rights movements. You Commies and traitors aren't 'liberals'. and in fact hate liberals, and most liberals will indeed vote for many of the poll's positions. Your racist dreams of wiping out Whitey are just doomed to failure. Hoping for a non-white majority won't do a thing for you. Minorities don't like each other, nor do they like white Commies and 'leftists'.

You're about 40 year behind. Union membership is down from 35% of the private sector of the workforce in 1983 to 6.7% today and minorities are a significant part of that membership. Labor unions no longer regard immigrants as a threat. In fact, labor unions are moving to protect immigrants, regardless of legal status. Just as membership has fallen in unions, they are no longer the force they once were in the democratic party.

Democrats tossed out liberals in the 1980's, in favor of 'globalism' and labor racketeering, so yes, union membership is way down; democrats wanted to destroy unions, too many white guys benefiting from it. You're about 100 years behind supporting liberal policies, so quit claiming to be one; you're just an establishment shill for 'globalism' and promoting racism, is all, nothing liberal or even mildly 'progressive' about your criminal illegal immigration positions.

Democrats certainly didn't bring unions down. Automation, and cheaper manufacturing abroad drastically reduced manufacturing jobs. Globalism is an inevitable force and neither politician party can stop it.

 

[sartre play]

I would like to see a Large number of illegals leave and go home to there country of origin.
a thing we have done for ever here, when we are short on labor we load up on cheap labor from what ever country its cheapest. when we don't need them we dehumanize them, call them animals ignorant, criminals & users of our tax money. then we don't have to think of them as people like we think of our self's.
Do know this when big$$$$$$ needs cheap labor visas appear like magic, when people with power want there relations granted citizen ship it happens.
no simple solutions to complex problems. IF I GOT TO PICK would keep the DACA kids. here through no fault of there own. THE parents unable to roll them all into one, so no solution.

 

[Picaro]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering
the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

The poll is slanted heavily to right. Most liberals will not vote giving you the intended results. There is no question on amnesty. No question on refugees. No questions on a path to citizenship, Should there be a wall? Should the number of work permits be increased. Increased penalty for hiring illegals. Improvement in E-Verify. A better visa tracking system. Abandoning the quota system.

Most liberals are pro-labor and oppose criminal illegal immigration, and also favor drastically reducing legal immigration and handing out green cards. They backed Cesar Chavez, the GI Forum, and all the other latino rights movements. You Commies and traitors aren't 'liberals'. and in fact hate liberals, and most liberals will indeed vote for many of the poll's positions. Your racist dreams of wiping out Whitey are just doomed to failure. Hoping for a non-white majority won't do a thing for you. Minorities don't like each other, nor do they like white Commies and 'leftists'.

You're about 40 year behind. Union membership is down from 35% of the private sector of the workforce in 1983 to 6.7% today and minorities are a significant part of that membership. Labor unions no longer regard immigrants as a threat. In fact, labor unions are moving to protect immigrants, regardless of legal status. Just as membership has fallen in unions, they are no longer the force they once were in the democratic party.

Democrats tossed out liberals in the 1980's, in favor of 'globalism' and labor racketeering, so yes, union membership is way down; democrats wanted to destroy unions, too many white guys benefiting from it. You're about 100 years behind supporting liberal policies, so quit claiming to be one; you're just an establishment shill for 'globalism' and promoting racism, is all, nothing liberal or even mildly 'progressive' about your criminal illegal immigration positions.

Democrats certainly didn't bring unions down. Automation, and cheaper manufacturing abroad drastically reduced manufacturing jobs. Globalism is an inevitable force and neither politician party can stop it.

Actually they did, and no, 'globalism' isn't 'inevitable', it has to be heavily subsidized, in fact, and yes, the negative effects and bribery necessary to sell it can indeed be stopped. 'Globalist' Democrats of course like the massive bribes, especially the Clintons, hated the political power of unions as their political donations failed to match and keep up with the size of the bribes offered by 'globalists' and their lobbyists.

 

[Foxfyre]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Legal immigration and stick to the naturalization act of the 1790's.

The Constitution of the 1990's however specified that all born on American soil are automatically citizens. That is a magnet for pregnant women in labor to cross the border where they will receive free hospitalization and a doctor to deliver their babies at U.S. taxpayer expense. And they know that we don't have the heart to send her home without the baby and it is illegal for us to deport the baby. That is why this practice earns the title of 'anchor babies' because it is the woman's ticket to not be deported.

We need a constitutional amendment to get away from jus soli and to make jus sanguinis (citizenship is determined by one or both parents being citizens) the law of the land.

That is just one provision among many to fix our broken immigration system.

Without birthright citizenship a person born in the US whose parents are residents, either legal or illegal will not be citizens nor will their offspring or any of their descendants. It would create a permanent underclass in our nation who lack the right to vote and other rights reserved for citizens. This is exactly what our forefathers came to America to escape. We pride ourselves on being a classless society where all men are created equal and it should remain so.

I disagree. Jus sanguinis is the policy of most developed nations. And it would eliminate a lot of problems we are now having.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm looking for an immigration policy that everybody can sign off on. Our current laws are lacking in several ways.

No, it's just that neither Party is allowing them to be enforced in the easiest and most effective way, and now we have local crime syndicates claiming their territories to be 'sanctuary cities', and they aren't going to jail either.

I'm pretty sure that we have a President and administration now who will enforce the law if we have a comprehensive immigration law. So let's leave what isn't happening for another discussion and focus on what the law should be in this one.

Comprehensive immigration reform would be impossible at this point in time and even it was possible, it certainly would not include most the proposed changes.

Why is it impossible? And what should be included in immigration reform?

I'm sure you can add. Republicans do not have sufficient numbers in congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform. Republicans will not accept amnesty and a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants and democrats will not support deporting undocumented immigrants that don't have criminal records. Democrats and Republican could probably agree on less controversial issues such as a better visa tracking system, a better E-Verify system, more stringent laws on hiring illegals, DACA, and possibly keeping families together but this is not comprehensive immigration reform. We would still have most of the same problems we have today.

In order to have immigration reform laws that will be enforced and last through both republican and democrat control of government would require that both sides make compromises on major issues and I don't see that happening today.

I don't see this as a partisan issue. I do not want this thread to be divided on a partisan basis. I want to discuss what the immigration policy should be. That can be discussed regardless of what numbers exist in Congress.

 

[Foxfyre]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering
the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

The poll is slanted heavily to right. Most liberals will not vote giving you the intended results. There is no question on amnesty. No question on refugees. No questions on a path to citizenship, Should there be a wall? Should the number of work permits be increased. Increased penalty for hiring illegals. Improvement in E-Verify. A better visa tracking system. Abandoning the quota system.

Most liberals are pro-labor and oppose criminal illegal immigration, and also favor drastically reducing legal immigration and handing out green cards. They backed Cesar Chavez, the GI Forum, and all the other latino rights movements. You Commies and traitors aren't 'liberals'. and in fact hate liberals, and most liberals will indeed vote for many of the poll's positions. Your racist dreams of wiping out Whitey are just doomed to failure. Hoping for a non-white majority won't do a thing for you. Minorities don't like each other, nor do they like white Commies and 'leftists'.

You're about 40 year behind. Union membership is down from 35% of the private sector of the workforce in 1983 to 6.7% today and minorities are a significant part of that membership. Labor unions no longer regard immigrants as a threat. In fact, labor unions are moving to protect immigrants, regardless of legal status. Just as membership has fallen in unions, they are no longer the force they once were in the democratic party.

Democrats tossed out liberals in the 1980's, in favor of 'globalism' and labor racketeering, so yes, union membership is way down; democrats wanted to destroy unions, too many white guys benefiting from it. You're about 100 years behind supporting liberal policies, so quit claiming to be one; you're just an establishment shill for 'globalism' and promoting racism, is all, nothing liberal or even mildly 'progressive' about your criminal illegal immigration positions.

Democrats certainly didn't bring unions down. Automation, and cheaper manufacturing abroad drastically reduced manufacturing jobs. Globalism is an inevitable force and neither politician party can stop it.

So what should the immigration policy be?

 

[Flopper]

I would like to see a Large number of illegals leave and go home to there country of origin.
a thing we have done for ever here, when we are short on labor we load up on cheap labor from what ever country its cheapest. when we don't need them we dehumanize them, call them animals ignorant, criminals & users of our tax money. then we don't have to think of them as people like we think of our self's.
Do know this when big$$$$$$ needs cheap labor visas appear like magic, when people with power want there relations granted citizen ship it happens.
no simple solutions to complex problems. IF I GOT TO PICK would keep the DACA kids. here through no fault of there own. THE parents unable to roll them all into one, so no solution.

Although I don't agree with you entirely, your post strikes at the heart of the problem. Over the years, the US has welcomed cheap Mexican labor with no concern for the law. During and after WWII, farmers would drive across the border to small Mexican towns loading up their trucks with workers to harvest crops. When the crops were harvested, some workers returned to Mexico and other stayed in the US. No one really cared. Then in the 50's with fear of Russian infiltrating of the nation, Mexicans and most anyone with dark skin in the southwest were detained, some went to immigration court but others were just driven South into Mexico and released. Within a few years, farmers once again disparate for workers hired illegals to work in the field but now, many never returned to Mexico settling permanently in states.

Over the next 40 years, enforcement of immigration laws were inconsistent at best. Today, there is no just, practical, and humane way to remove these people. You have towns and communities that are mostly Latino where families have been here for generations. Some crossed the boarder illegally, some holding valid vista, others US citizens by birth, or citizens by marriage. They work in the fields, work in local businesses, and local goverment, including law enforcement. It is not uncommon for a family to consist of one or two illegal parents, a mixture of legal and illegal children and even older illegal children married with children who are citizens.

 

[Flopper]

The poll is slanted heavily to right. Most liberals will not vote giving you the intended results. There is no question on amnesty. No question on refugees. No questions on a path to citizenship, Should there be a wall? Should the number of work permits be increased. Increased penalty for hiring illegals. Improvement in E-Verify. A better visa tracking system. Abandoning the quota system.

Most liberals are pro-labor and oppose criminal illegal immigration, and also favor drastically reducing legal immigration and handing out green cards. They backed Cesar Chavez, the GI Forum, and all the other latino rights movements. You Commies and traitors aren't 'liberals'. and in fact hate liberals, and most liberals will indeed vote for many of the poll's positions. Your racist dreams of wiping out Whitey are just doomed to failure. Hoping for a non-white majority won't do a thing for you. Minorities don't like each other, nor do they like white Commies and 'leftists'.

You're about 40 year behind. Union membership is down from 35% of the private sector of the workforce in 1983 to 6.7% today and minorities are a significant part of that membership. Labor unions no longer regard immigrants as a threat. In fact, labor unions are moving to protect immigrants, regardless of legal status. Just as membership has fallen in unions, they are no longer the force they once were in the democratic party.

Democrats tossed out liberals in the 1980's, in favor of 'globalism' and labor racketeering, so yes, union membership is way down; democrats wanted to destroy unions, too many white guys benefiting from it. You're about 100 years behind supporting liberal policies, so quit claiming to be one; you're just an establishment shill for 'globalism' and promoting racism, is all, nothing liberal or even mildly 'progressive' about your criminal illegal immigration positions.

Democrats certainly didn't bring unions down. Automation, and cheaper manufacturing abroad drastically reduced manufacturing jobs. Globalism is an inevitable force and neither politician party can stop it.

So what should the immigration policy be?

The only thing that really makes sense is to start from scratch and forget about deporting 9 million people. Legalize those that are here now that is, make them permanent legal residents. Strengthen boarder security, with fences, electronic surveillance, and walls where appropriate. Create realistic immigration quotas, issue more work visas, develop a visa tracking system that works, enhance E-Verify, reduce the cost of legally entering the US and Clamp down hard of hiring illegals.

 

[Foxfyre]

Most liberals are pro-labor and oppose criminal illegal immigration, and also favor drastically reducing legal immigration and handing out green cards. They backed Cesar Chavez, the GI Forum, and all the other latino rights movements. You Commies and traitors aren't 'liberals'. and in fact hate liberals, and most liberals will indeed vote for many of the poll's positions. Your racist dreams of wiping out Whitey are just doomed to failure. Hoping for a non-white majority won't do a thing for you. Minorities don't like each other, nor do they like white Commies and 'leftists'.

You're about 40 year behind. Union membership is down from 35% of the private sector of the workforce in 1983 to 6.7% today and minorities are a significant part of that membership. Labor unions no longer regard immigrants as a threat. In fact, labor unions are moving to protect immigrants, regardless of legal status. Just as membership has fallen in unions, they are no longer the force they once were in the democratic party.

Democrats tossed out liberals in the 1980's, in favor of 'globalism' and labor racketeering, so yes, union membership is way down; democrats wanted to destroy unions, too many white guys benefiting from it. You're about 100 years behind supporting liberal policies, so quit claiming to be one; you're just an establishment shill for 'globalism' and promoting racism, is all, nothing liberal or even mildly 'progressive' about your criminal illegal immigration positions.

Democrats certainly didn't bring unions down. Automation, and cheaper manufacturing abroad drastically reduced manufacturing jobs. Globalism is an inevitable force and neither politician party can stop it.

So what should the immigration policy be?

The only thing that really makes sense is to start from scratch and forget about deporting 9 million people. Legalize those that are here now that is, make them permanent legal residents. Strengthen boarder security, with fences, electronic surveillance, and walls where appropriate. Create realistic immigration quotas, issue more work visas, develop a visa tracking system that works, enhance E-Verify, reduce the cost of legally entering the US and Clamp down hard of hiring illegals.

If you legalize the 12 to 20 illegals in the country now, what do you say to the millions who have applied through legal means to come to America and have been waiting for years for their visas to do so? Just tell them to come on illegally so they can be here? How is blanket amnesty anything other than that?

If you legalize the 12 to 20 illegals in the country now, you are okay with the murderers, rapists, burglars, M-13 gang members, drug traffickers etc. etc.etc. among them getting legal status along with everybody else?

How many more people do you think the USA can take without over straining public resources and available jobs?

And what should be the criteria for permanent visas for those who want to come here to stay?

 

[Flopper]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Legal immigration and stick to the naturalization act of the 1790's.

The Constitution of the 1990's however specified that all born on American soil are automatically citizens. That is a magnet for pregnant women in labor to cross the border where they will receive free hospitalization and a doctor to deliver their babies at U.S. taxpayer expense. And they know that we don't have the heart to send her home without the baby and it is illegal for us to deport the baby. That is why this practice earns the title of 'anchor babies' because it is the woman's ticket to not be deported.

We need a constitutional amendment to get away from jus soli and to make jus sanguinis (citizenship is determined by one or both parents being citizens) the law of the land.

That is just one provision among many to fix our broken immigration system.

Without birthright citizenship a person born in the US whose parents are residents, either legal or illegal will not be citizens nor will their offspring or any of their descendants. It would create a permanent underclass in our nation who lack the right to vote and other rights reserved for citizens. This is exactly what our forefathers came to America to escape. We pride ourselves on being a classless society where all men are created equal and it should remain so.

I disagree. Jus sanguinis is the policy of most developed nations. And it would eliminate a lot of problems we are now having.

It would also cause a lot of problems as it does in Europe where Jus Sanguinis is common. Jus Sanguinis creates a permanent lower class who lack the right to vote and often other rights of citizens. Most of these country have a long tradition of rigid class structure and poor integration of immigrants where the lack of upward mobility is commonly accepted.

In the USA, we pride ourselves on being a classless society where every American has the same rights and responsibility. This is one of the things that makes our country great. Any American can run for public office or even become president. If you have what takes, it's doesn't matter where your parents came from, the sky is the limit.

 

[Foxfyre]

Request: please keep discussion reasonably civil. And let's make refuge issues a separate discussion, please, and focus only on immigration in this one.

The following list is intended as a PROPOSED immigration policy, not what the law currently is or what any court rulings have been so far. What, if anything, can you agree with and support as immigration policy? Why or why not?

1. All immigrants must enter America legally. No exceptions. Anybody caught entering the USA illegally will be deported and forever banned from legal entry.

2. A border wall will be built to help keep immigration legal. No suggestion is made here of definition of 'wall' or what sort of wall, but we must be able to protect our borders.

3. DACA kids can stay legally but not their illegal family members. However harsh this sounds, the kids have a choice to stay by themselves or go home with their parents or other family.

4. DACA kids leaving with family will not have automatic right of return. They can't have it both ways.

5. New immigrants will be admitted by merit and not by lottery. We are the only developed country in the world that uses a lottery system to determine who gets in. Those admitted should be prepared to support themselves, learn English, and want to be Americans so that they enrich and improve us rather than be a further drain on finite resources.

6. Chain migration re immigrants will be illegal. It is unreasonable for immigrants to be able to import whatever family members they choose and therefore one new immigrant equals sometimes dozens of people.

7. Children of citizen parents will be the only automatic citizens. This one will require a constitutional amendment, but it would stop the anchor baby syndrome in which the mother knows if she can give birth to a U.S. citizen, she will be allowed to stay.

8. Immediate humanitarian aid; otherwise no benefits for illegals. We must stop giving jobs, the equivalent of welfare benefits, free educations, free healthcare, et al to those who are here illegally.

9. There will be a means of issuing short term work visas. This has long been an American tradition in which border states can benefit from Mexican et al labor and the laborers can enjoy the extra money they can legally earn. But when the job is complete, the workers go home.

10. Overstay a visa or come here illegally and you can be forever banned from the USA. There might be a bit of wiggle room if the overstay was inadvertent, i,e, somebody was in the hospital. But as a rule, this will provide a deterrent to those who now are apprehended and deported again and again and again.

The poll includes an option to change your selections should you change your mind.

Thoughts?

Legal immigration and stick to the naturalization act of the 1790's.

The Constitution of the 1990's however specified that all born on American soil are automatically citizens. That is a magnet for pregnant women in labor to cross the border where they will receive free hospitalization and a doctor to deliver their babies at U.S. taxpayer expense. And they know that we don't have the heart to send her home without the baby and it is illegal for us to deport the baby. That is why this practice earns the title of 'anchor babies' because it is the woman's ticket to not be deported.

We need a constitutional amendment to get away from jus soli and to make jus sanguinis (citizenship is determined by one or both parents being citizens) the law of the land.

That is just one provision among many to fix our broken immigration system.

Without birthright citizenship a person born in the US whose parents are residents, either legal or illegal will not be citizens nor will their offspring or any of their descendants. It would create a permanent underclass in our nation who lack the right to vote and other rights reserved for citizens. This is exactly what our forefathers came to America to escape. We pride ourselves on being a classless society where all men are created equal and it should remain so.

I disagree. Jus sanguinis is the policy of most developed nations. And it would eliminate a lot of problems we are now having.

It would also cause a lot of problems as it does in Europe where Jus Sanguinis is common. Jus Sanguinis creates a permanent lower class who lack the right to vote and often other rights of citizens. Most of these country have a long tradition of rigid class structure and poor integration of immigrants where the lack of upward mobility is commonly accepted.

In the USA, we pride ourselves on being a classless society where every American has the same rights and responsibility. This is one of the things that makes our country great. Any American can run for public office or even become president. If you have what takes, it's doesn't matter where your parents came from, the sky is the limit.

There is certainly no bigger creator of a 'lower class' here than the anchor babies born to poor illegal mothers with little chance of moving into the middle class.

Jus sanguinis is the surest way to deal with that particular problem. We are a classless society here in America except for the artificial class created through the intolerance of progressivism and an entrenched permanent political class that deliberately sees to it that anybody not in their club won't have much chance to succeed.

Otherwise, a U.S. citizen, even one among some of the poorest of the poor, can aspire to the American dream. I know because I was one of those.

 

[Flopper]

You're about 40 year behind. Union membership is down from 35% of the private sector of the workforce in 1983 to 6.7% today and minorities are a significant part of that membership. Labor unions no longer regard immigrants as a threat. In fact, labor unions are moving to protect immigrants, regardless of legal status. Just as membership has fallen in unions, they are no longer the force they once were in the democratic party.

Democrats tossed out liberals in the 1980's, in favor of 'globalism' and labor racketeering, so yes, union membership is way down; democrats wanted to destroy unions, too many white guys benefiting from it. You're about 100 years behind supporting liberal policies, so quit claiming to be one; you're just an establishment shill for 'globalism' and promoting racism, is all, nothing liberal or even mildly 'progressive' about your criminal illegal immigration positions.

Democrats certainly didn't bring unions down. Automation, and cheaper manufacturing abroad drastically reduced manufacturing jobs. Globalism is an inevitable force and neither politician party can stop it.

So what should the immigration policy be?

The only thing that really makes sense is to start from scratch and forget about deporting 9 million people. Legalize those that are here now that is, make them permanent legal residents. Strengthen boarder security, with fences, electronic surveillance, and walls where appropriate. Create realistic immigration quotas, issue more work visas, develop a visa tracking system that works, enhance E-Verify, reduce the cost of legally entering the US and Clamp down hard of hiring illegals.

If you legalize the 12 to 20 illegals in the country now, what do you say to the millions who have applied through legal means to come to America and have been waiting for years for their visas to do so? Just tell them to come on illegally so they can be here? How is blanket amnesty anything other than that?

If you legalize the 12 to 20 illegals in the country now, you are okay with the murderers, rapists, burglars, M-13 gang members, drug traffickers etc. etc.etc. among them getting legal status along with everybody else?

How many more people do you think the USA can take without over straining public resources and available jobs?

And what should be the criteria for permanent visas for those who want to come here to stay?

You tell them you're fixing a broken system, so other will not have to go through the hardships they endured. An offer of amnesty does not have to be without restriction. An amnesty offer would be predicated on the person showing they were living in the country as of a certain date and have not been convicted of a felony nor connected to proven criminal organizations such as cartels or criminal gang and of course the offer would have an expiration date. Even with amnesty we would still have some deportations. The difference being we would be deporting the right people.

Birth rates in the US just hit a 30 year low and are expected to continue to fall. This country is going to need more people in the 21st century and legal immigrants are exactly the people we need, people that have suffered hardships that few native Americans have experience who spent their lives in countries where there is near zero upward mobility. Immigrants are twice as likely to start a new business than native born Americans, more likely to take difficult assessments and less likely to quit their job.

 

[Flopper]

Legal immigration and stick to the naturalization act of the 1790's.

The Constitution of the 1990's however specified that all born on American soil are automatically citizens. That is a magnet for pregnant women in labor to cross the border where they will receive free hospitalization and a doctor to deliver their babies at U.S. taxpayer expense. And they know that we don't have the heart to send her home without the baby and it is illegal for us to deport the baby. That is why this practice earns the title of 'anchor babies' because it is the woman's ticket to not be deported.

We need a constitutional amendment to get away from jus soli and to make jus sanguinis (citizenship is determined by one or both parents being citizens) the law of the land.

That is just one provision among many to fix our broken immigration system.

Without birthright citizenship a person born in the US whose parents are residents, either legal or illegal will not be citizens nor will their offspring or any of their descendants. It would create a permanent underclass in our nation who lack the right to vote and other rights reserved for citizens. This is exactly what our forefathers came to America to escape. We pride ourselves on being a classless society where all men are created equal and it should remain so.

I disagree. Jus sanguinis is the policy of most developed nations. And it would eliminate a lot of problems we are now having.

It would also cause a lot of problems as it does in Europe where Jus Sanguinis is common. Jus Sanguinis creates a permanent lower class who lack the right to vote and often other rights of citizens. Most of these country have a long tradition of rigid class structure and poor integration of immigrants where the lack of upward mobility is commonly accepted.

In the USA, we pride ourselves on being a classless society where every American has the same rights and responsibility. This is one of the things that makes our country great. Any American can run for public office or even become president. If you have what takes, it's doesn't matter where your parents came from, the sky is the limit.

There is certainly no bigger creator of a 'lower class' here than the anchor babies born to poor illegal mothers with little chance of moving into the middle class.

Jus sanguinis is the surest way to deal with that particular problem. We are a classless society here in America except for the artificial class created through the intolerance of progressivism and an entrenched permanent political class that deliberately sees to it that anybody not in their club won't have much chance to succeed.

Otherwise, a U.S. citizen, even one among some of the poorest of the poor, can aspire to the American dream. I know because I was one of those.

Claiming Jus sangunis would stop women from coming to the US to have babies is ridiculous because most women do not enter the US to have babies and second they don't plan to make the US their home. They come to the US to make money and return home.

You really think a significant number of women would risk their lives sneaking into the US, not to get a job but to have a baby that they would probably not be able to support and would keep them from working, all so that child just might be able to keep them in the US if they happen to be arrested. Even more fanciful is to think Jus sanguinis would change their mind about coming to the US.

 

[abrere]

we shouldn't let in people who are not MD's, dentists, engineers, physicists, math professors, and the like. We need to get rid of the 30 million lettuce-pickers.

 

[candycorn]

I think one helpful thing would be to tie the immigration rate to the unemployment rate.

When we have higher unemployment, allow fewer and fewer people in; forcing companies to either do without or hire people who are already here.
When unemployment is lower, you allow more people in since they will not be the equivalent of payday mercenaries.

The trick would be were to set the trigger that will close the door but whatever it is; the reporting rate doesn't really report the true unemployment number. People who have stopped looking for work are not reported. So whatever the trigger unemployment figure is, give it six more months before you start allowing people in.

 

[Foxfyre]

Democrats tossed out liberals in the 1980's, in favor of 'globalism' and labor racketeering, so yes, union membership is way down; democrats wanted to destroy unions, too many white guys benefiting from it. You're about 100 years behind supporting liberal policies, so quit claiming to be one; you're just an establishment shill for 'globalism' and promoting racism, is all, nothing liberal or even mildly 'progressive' about your criminal illegal immigration positions.

Democrats certainly didn't bring unions down. Automation, and cheaper manufacturing abroad drastically reduced manufacturing jobs. Globalism is an inevitable force and neither politician party can stop it.

So what should the immigration policy be?

The only thing that really makes sense is to start from scratch and forget about deporting 9 million people. Legalize those that are here now that is, make them permanent legal residents. Strengthen boarder security, with fences, electronic surveillance, and walls where appropriate. Create realistic immigration quotas, issue more work visas, develop a visa tracking system that works, enhance E-Verify, reduce the cost of legally entering the US and Clamp down hard of hiring illegals.

If you legalize the 12 to 20 illegals in the country now, what do you say to the millions who have applied through legal means to come to America and have been waiting for years for their visas to do so? Just tell them to come on illegally so they can be here? How is blanket amnesty anything other than that?

If you legalize the 12 to 20 illegals in the country now, you are okay with the murderers, rapists, burglars, M-13 gang members, drug traffickers etc. etc.etc. among them getting legal status along with everybody else?

How many more people do you think the USA can take without over straining public resources and available jobs?

And what should be the criteria for permanent visas for those who want to come here to stay?

You tell them you're fixing a broken system, so other will not have to go through the hardships they endured. An offer of amnesty does not have to be without restriction. An amnesty offer would be predicated on the person showing they were living in the country as of a certain date and have not been convicted of a felony nor connected to proven criminal organizations such as cartels or criminal gang and of course the offer would have an expiration date. Even with amnesty we would still have some deportations. The difference being we would be deporting the right people.

Birth rates in the US just hit a 30 year low and are expected to continue to fall. This country is going to need more people in the 21st century and legal immigrants are exactly the people we need, people that have suffered hardships that few native Americans have experience who spent their lives in countries where there is near zero upward mobility. Immigrants are twice as likely to start a new business than native born Americans, more likely to take difficult assessments and less likely to quit their job.

I'm not arguing that immigration is not a good thing. But LEGAL immigration is a good thing. Not illegal immigration. No other developed nation in the world has the lax and unenforced immigration policies that the USA has right now.

But describing the goal is not useful unless there is an intention to achieve it and a willingness to develop the process that will get us there. A majority of us need to agree on what the law will be.

To give blanket amnesty to people based on how long they have been here breaking our laws doesn't feel right to me ether. As somebody once described it, that is like saying that the guy committing involuntary manslaughter gets the death penalty while the serial killer gets probation. (Attention snowflakes: that is a metaphor for purpose of illustration and it is NOT comparing all immigrants to murderers.)

In short, based on our experience with it in times past, I won't agree to blanket amnesty for anyone other than the emancipated dreamers who were brought here as children and have no home to return to

 

[Foxfyre]

The Constitution of the 1990's however specified that all born on American soil are automatically citizens. That is a magnet for pregnant women in labor to cross the border where they will receive free hospitalization and a doctor to deliver their babies at U.S. taxpayer expense. And they know that we don't have the heart to send her home without the baby and it is illegal for us to deport the baby. That is why this practice earns the title of 'anchor babies' because it is the woman's ticket to not be deported.

We need a constitutional amendment to get away from jus soli and to make jus sanguinis (citizenship is determined by one or both parents being citizens) the law of the land.

That is just one provision among many to fix our broken immigration system.

Without birthright citizenship a person born in the US whose parents are residents, either legal or illegal will not be citizens nor will their offspring or any of their descendants. It would create a permanent underclass in our nation who lack the right to vote and other rights reserved for citizens. This is exactly what our forefathers came to America to escape. We pride ourselves on being a classless society where all men are created equal and it should remain so.

I disagree. Jus sanguinis is the policy of most developed nations. And it would eliminate a lot of problems we are now having.

It would also cause a lot of problems as it does in Europe where Jus Sanguinis is common. Jus Sanguinis creates a permanent lower class who lack the right to vote and often other rights of citizens. Most of these country have a long tradition of rigid class structure and poor integration of immigrants where the lack of upward mobility is commonly accepted.

In the USA, we pride ourselves on being a classless society where every American has the same rights and responsibility. This is one of the things that makes our country great. Any American can run for public office or even become president. If you have what takes, it's doesn't matter where your parents came from, the sky is the limit.

There is certainly no bigger creator of a 'lower class' here than the anchor babies born to poor illegal mothers with little chance of moving into the middle class.

Jus sanguinis is the surest way to deal with that particular problem. We are a classless society here in America except for the artificial class created through the intolerance of progressivism and an entrenched permanent political class that deliberately sees to it that anybody not in their club won't have much chance to succeed.

Otherwise, a U.S. citizen, even one among some of the poorest of the poor, can aspire to the American dream. I know because I was one of those.

Claiming Jus sangunis would stop women from coming to the US to have babies is ridiculous because most women do not enter the US to have babies and second they don't plan to make the US their home. They come to the US to make money and return home.

You really think a significant number of women would risk their lives sneaking into the US, not to get a job but to have a baby that they would probably not be able to support and would keep them from working, all so that child just might be able to keep them in the US if they happen to be arrested. Even more fanciful is to think Jus sanguinis would change their mind about coming to the US.

Yes, a significant number of women do just that.

Number of babies born in U.S. to unauthorized immigrants declines

8% of U.S. births were anchor babies in 2013, down from 9% in 2007. So we aren't talking just a few but hundreds of thousands.

Now admittedly a lot of those were conceived after the women were already here illegally, but the number who cross while pregnant for the purpose of producing an 'anchor baby' is not insignificant:
Duncan on Mexican Women Who Cross U.S. Border to Give Birth: ‘These Are Our Kids’

 

[Claudette]

Repealing the born here automatic citizenship rule would take a constitutional amendment which won't be ratified. Otherwise at least in the ballpark.

I think we have enough red states for it to be ratified. Don’t know unless we try.

That amendment needs to be gone. It was put in there so the children of slaves would be recognized as American citizens. They sure don't need it anymore.

Right now all it does is create anchor babies with mothers we taxpayers have to support.