I'm for gutting the whole government system

[candycorn]

When you live under a system that was devised prior to street lights; is anybody surprised that we have problems? I'm not for gutting the government...its the best in the world (believe it or not). I am for updating the God Damn constitution to embrace the bedrock realities we face today.

It only works when persons of good faith serve. The parties have corrupted the process to the point of no return I'm afraid.

They run the elections; they appoint the electors who ultimately vote for President and Vice President; they actually negotiate the rules of debates at least at the Presidential level whereas the League of Women Voters once held that sacred of all electoral traditions, and they generally work to eliminate all moderates from the process.

No mention is made in the Constitution about political parties so they are not doing anything unconstitutional; they are, however, often times not acting in the best interest of the American people as a whole or the citizens of their States or Districts in the micro.

Take redistricting for example. Congressional districts are drawn to protect seats for whoever is doing the drawing. A constitutional order could change this to prevent such "gerrymandering". It should be a lottery of zip codes held every 6 years in my view (or at least 10 years as it is done now). Geographical restrictions should be damned. Currently Trent Franks represents part of suburban Phoenix...he also represents the Grand Canyon/Lake Mead area. Currently they don't give a damn about geography....what would it hurt? This should be job #1 of anybody who actually wants to fix the system instead of just bitching about it. Eventually a Dem will get a heavily Red zip code. He or she may get voted out. But maybe he or she will have to listen to a different voice from time to time...maybe they will change a few minds themselves. It's called leadership. It's called holding your elected officials feet to the fire. The best case is an informed citizenry.

 

[candycorn]

The Patriot Act...the most Mountian-Generating molehill ever created.

 

[editec]

When you live under a system that was devised prior to street lights; is anybody surprised that we have problems?

There's more than just a L:ITTLE truth to that POV.

Add to THAT problem the additional fact that many of the changes we have made to our system since that time make things go from bad to worse.

We'd ALL like to see a government that is NOT corrupted.

Per usual I'll note that the problem is NOT government in theory but BAD government IN FACT.
.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

so we should live in what type of system?

Our elected officals are not governing this country the way they should should we just do away with the Constitution and continue the way we have wince the days of Woodrow Wilson. Is it to much to expect our elected officals to do as the Constitution dictate to do?
As for your question I think we should go back to being what we started out being, a CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Does anybody have any name's or who's who for third party people?
What about the people that work and don't have the time to really look into what's really going on.
How about the one's who don't pay attention until maybe just the last month of an election?
How do we get the third party candidates out there for everybody to see and look at, when the media and both parties are set up for just the Repubs and Dems?

There we go with that P word. The party doesn't matter a politican is a politican no matter what their party is. I am sure many who supported obama are pretty disappointed in him. Not doing what he said he was going to do.

 

[Intense]

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

What our Government abandoned was the concept of Enumerated Powers and Government by the consent of the Governed. We need to bring that back, not abandon what we still are holding on to. Structured Liberty is the goal. We need to remove the taint. The powers that be will crush the concept of Unalienable Right, given half the chance. Stand up in It's defense. Give It voice.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...-the-whole-government-system.html#post3693420

I'm for gutting the whole government system

ARe you really?

Including the military?

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

Are you really shocked that the TP members sent to Congress got in line to further enmpower the state maintain control over the people, BigREB?

I'm not.

Just like I am not surprised that Obama has ALSO signed onto that law.

Welcome to my reality, citizen.

The sooner people like you realize that the game is a fix, and the fix isn't about left or right, the better.

If we need a metsphor to describe our nation it isn't left v right, or liber b con or R v D it is:

INSIDERS versus CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!

Your neighbors, however much you might disapprove of their lives personally, are NOT the people who are screwing YOU or your nation.

When things go bad the LEADERSHIP is ALWAYS responsible.

Not the people, not the hippies, or the welfare mothers or the gun owners, or the veterans, or the factory workers or the affluent or the rich, or any other of the scapegoat classes our masters keep telling us are the causes of the problems.

THE PEOPLE WHO MADE THE DECISONS that lead us here are the guilty parties.

We know only SOME of their names.

They are mostly the PUPPETS, not the PUPPET MASTERS.

Follow the money, Reb.

Are you really shocked that the TP members sent to Congress got in line to further enmpower the state maintain control over the people, BigREB?

Really shocked? No I am very disappointed in the hacks. There was a glime of hope that maybe the new kids in D.C might make a change. As we see they sung the song that help them to get elected. And once again voting does not work the system is broke.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

What our Government abandoned was the concept of Enumerated Powers and Government by the consent of the Governed. We need to bring that back, not abandon what we still are holding on to. Structured Liberty is the goal. We need to remove the taint. The powers that be will crush the concept of Unalienable Right, given half the chance. Stand up in It's defense. Give It voice.

Voting doesn't work nor does talking. There is only one other way to get the elected officals attention for more than the standard thank you vote for me bullshit.

 

[candycorn]

When you live under a system that was devised prior to street lights; is anybody surprised that we have problems?

There's more than just a L:ITTLE truth to that POV.

Add to THAT problem the additional fact that many of the changes we have made to our system since that time make things go from bad to worse.

We'd ALL like to see a government that is NOT corrupted.

Per usual I'll note that the problem is NOT government in theory but BAD government IN FACT.
.

Then pass laws that foster good government.

Get rid of safe districts by eliminating the governmental hand in drawing congressional district lines. Make it a law that once every _________ years, a lottery is held of all of the zip codes in a state. Our population in Arizona has given us 12 districts. So put all of the zip codes into a pool and draw them at random. The first "ball" is district one, the second "ball" is district 2 and so on. The thirteenth "ball" is district one, fourteenth is two...on and on. When you're done, you have a mix of rich zips, poor zips, industrial zip codes, rural zip codes, red, blue, green, etc... It makes the representatives appeal to a wider range of voter.

Federally mandate that federal budgets start at $0 to see what we REALLY need. Nothing is taken for granted in this environment. The budget for the DHS, DOD, AG, VA, HHS, Interior, State, is all set at zero. If the budget is X dollars for State (for example), I would bet that Secretary Clinton would be quite astute about getting rid of un-necessary posts like our ambassador to Vanuatu. Do we really need to have this guy or gal?

We have a constitutional mandate for the State of the Union. Why not mandate three or four POTUS debates where there is no questions asked by the moderator; just by the candidates of each other. Get 2, 3, or 4 men or women on the stage based on petitions, primary voting, or whatever and let them respectfully ask the questions of one another. No set-ups for sound-bytes.

These are just some thoughts. As I see it, the Constitution isn't doing enough to eliminate bad government and it's vagueness makes it possible; the environment of partisanship almost guarantees it will take place.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

This is another act of bullshit and if I was stiull a cop I would turn my service weapon on all the offending cops. Beating a grown man with a belt assualting a teenage girl while she is in their lock up ceil. And the big NO NO hit people in the head with their PR 24's.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOcDK3qME20&feature=related]YouTube - ‪American Resistance Movement Prepares For The NWO.flv‬‏[/ame]

 

[bigrebnc1775]

When you live under a system that was devised prior to street lights; is anybody surprised that we have problems?

There's more than just a L:ITTLE truth to that POV.

Add to THAT problem the additional fact that many of the changes we have made to our system since that time make things go from bad to worse.

We'd ALL like to see a government that is NOT corrupted.

Per usual I'll note that the problem is NOT government in theory but BAD government IN FACT.
.

Then pass laws that foster good government.

Get rid of safe districts by eliminating the governmental hand in drawing congressional district lines. Make it a law that once every _________ years, a lottery is held of all of the zip codes in a state. Our population in Arizona has given us 12 districts. So put all of the zip codes into a pool and draw them at random. The first "ball" is district one, the second "ball" is district 2 and so on. The thirteenth "ball" is district one, fourteenth is two...on and on. When you're done, you have a mix of rich zips, poor zips, industrial zip codes, rural zip codes, red, blue, green, etc... It makes the representatives appeal to a wider range of voter.

Federally mandate that federal budgets start at $0 to see what we REALLY need. Nothing is taken for granted in this environment. The budget for the DHS, DOD, AG, VA, HHS, Interior, State, is all set at zero. If the budget is X dollars for State (for example), I would bet that Secretary Clinton would be quite astute about getting rid of un-necessary posts like our ambassador to Vanuatu. Do we really need to have this guy or gal?

We have a constitutional mandate for the State of the Union. Why not mandate three or four POTUS debates where there is no questions asked by the moderator; just by the candidates of each other. Get 2, 3, or 4 men or women on the stage based on petitions, primary voting, or whatever and let them respectfully ask the questions of one another. No set-ups for sound-bytes.

These are just some thoughts. As I see it, the Constitution isn't doing enough to eliminate bad government and it's vagueness makes it possible; the environment of partisanship almost guarantees it will take place.

Then pass laws that foster good government.

How do you suggest that happens? Voting does not work or are you that blind sheep?

 

[HUGGY]

When you live under a system that was devised prior to street lights; is anybody surprised that we have problems? I'm not for gutting the government...its the best in the world (believe it or not). I am for updating the God Damn constitution to embrace the bedrock realities we face today.

It only works when persons of good faith serve. The parties have corrupted the process to the point of no return I'm afraid.

They run the elections; they appoint the electors who ultimately vote for President and Vice President; they actually negotiate the rules of debates at least at the Presidential level whereas the League of Women Voters once held that sacred of all electoral traditions, and they generally work to eliminate all moderates from the process.

No mention is made in the Constitution about political parties so they are not doing anything unconstitutional; they are, however, often times not acting in the best interest of the American people as a whole or the citizens of their States or Districts in the micro.

Take redistricting for example. Congressional districts are drawn to protect seats for whoever is doing the drawing. A constitutional order could change this to prevent such "gerrymandering". It should be a lottery of zip codes held every 6 years in my view (or at least 10 years as it is done now). Geographical restrictions should be damned. Currently Trent Franks represents part of suburban Phoenix...he also represents the Grand Canyon/Lake Mead area. Currently they don't give a damn about geography....what would it hurt? This should be job #1 of anybody who actually wants to fix the system instead of just bitching about it. Eventually a Dem will get a heavily Red zip code. He or she may get voted out. But maybe he or she will have to listen to a different voice from time to time...maybe they will change a few minds themselves. It's called leadership. It's called holding your elected officials feet to the fire. The best case is an informed citizenry.

I am for updating the God Damn constitution

Really.....AND just who do you trust to do THAT?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

When you live under a system that was devised prior to street lights; is anybody surprised that we have problems? I'm not for gutting the government...its the best in the world (believe it or not). I am for updating the God Damn constitution to embrace the bedrock realities we face today.

It only works when persons of good faith serve. The parties have corrupted the process to the point of no return I'm afraid.

They run the elections; they appoint the electors who ultimately vote for President and Vice President; they actually negotiate the rules of debates at least at the Presidential level whereas the League of Women Voters once held that sacred of all electoral traditions, and they generally work to eliminate all moderates from the process.

No mention is made in the Constitution about political parties so they are not doing anything unconstitutional; they are, however, often times not acting in the best interest of the American people as a whole or the citizens of their States or Districts in the micro.

Take redistricting for example. Congressional districts are drawn to protect seats for whoever is doing the drawing. A constitutional order could change this to prevent such "gerrymandering". It should be a lottery of zip codes held every 6 years in my view (or at least 10 years as it is done now). Geographical restrictions should be damned. Currently Trent Franks represents part of suburban Phoenix...he also represents the Grand Canyon/Lake Mead area. Currently they don't give a damn about geography....what would it hurt? This should be job #1 of anybody who actually wants to fix the system instead of just bitching about it. Eventually a Dem will get a heavily Red zip code. He or she may get voted out. But maybe he or she will have to listen to a different voice from time to time...maybe they will change a few minds themselves. It's called leadership. It's called holding your elected officials feet to the fire. The best case is an informed citizenry.

I am for updating the God Damn constitution

Really.....AND just who do you trust to do THAT?

I don't agree with you much but this time I do

 

[candycorn]

When you live under a system that was devised prior to street lights; is anybody surprised that we have problems? I'm not for gutting the government...its the best in the world (believe it or not). I am for updating the God Damn constitution to embrace the bedrock realities we face today.

It only works when persons of good faith serve. The parties have corrupted the process to the point of no return I'm afraid.

They run the elections; they appoint the electors who ultimately vote for President and Vice President; they actually negotiate the rules of debates at least at the Presidential level whereas the League of Women Voters once held that sacred of all electoral traditions, and they generally work to eliminate all moderates from the process.

No mention is made in the Constitution about political parties so they are not doing anything unconstitutional; they are, however, often times not acting in the best interest of the American people as a whole or the citizens of their States or Districts in the micro.

Take redistricting for example. Congressional districts are drawn to protect seats for whoever is doing the drawing. A constitutional order could change this to prevent such "gerrymandering". It should be a lottery of zip codes held every 6 years in my view (or at least 10 years as it is done now). Geographical restrictions should be damned. Currently Trent Franks represents part of suburban Phoenix...he also represents the Grand Canyon/Lake Mead area. Currently they don't give a damn about geography....what would it hurt? This should be job #1 of anybody who actually wants to fix the system instead of just bitching about it. Eventually a Dem will get a heavily Red zip code. He or she may get voted out. But maybe he or she will have to listen to a different voice from time to time...maybe they will change a few minds themselves. It's called leadership. It's called holding your elected officials feet to the fire. The best case is an informed citizenry.

I am for updating the God Damn constitution

Really.....AND just who do you trust to do THAT?

A constitutional convention where all states send delegates was the way I recall it being done in the past. At some point, every form of government relies on trust. I don't know if it is the best idea. Who would you send? If I were to say the deans of the PoliSci departments at Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Notre Dame, Columbia, and Brandice and just let those 7 figure it all out...would that be better? LOL.

 

[candycorn]

When you live under a system that was devised prior to street lights; is anybody surprised that we have problems? I'm not for gutting the government...its the best in the world (believe it or not). I am for updating the God Damn constitution to embrace the bedrock realities we face today.

It only works when persons of good faith serve. The parties have corrupted the process to the point of no return I'm afraid.

They run the elections; they appoint the electors who ultimately vote for President and Vice President; they actually negotiate the rules of debates at least at the Presidential level whereas the League of Women Voters once held that sacred of all electoral traditions, and they generally work to eliminate all moderates from the process.

No mention is made in the Constitution about political parties so they are not doing anything unconstitutional; they are, however, often times not acting in the best interest of the American people as a whole or the citizens of their States or Districts in the micro.

Take redistricting for example. Congressional districts are drawn to protect seats for whoever is doing the drawing. A constitutional order could change this to prevent such "gerrymandering". It should be a lottery of zip codes held every 6 years in my view (or at least 10 years as it is done now). Geographical restrictions should be damned. Currently Trent Franks represents part of suburban Phoenix...he also represents the Grand Canyon/Lake Mead area. Currently they don't give a damn about geography....what would it hurt? This should be job #1 of anybody who actually wants to fix the system instead of just bitching about it. Eventually a Dem will get a heavily Red zip code. He or she may get voted out. But maybe he or she will have to listen to a different voice from time to time...maybe they will change a few minds themselves. It's called leadership. It's called holding your elected officials feet to the fire. The best case is an informed citizenry.

I am for updating the God Damn constitution

Really.....AND just who do you trust to do THAT?

A constitutional convention where all states send delegates was the way I recall it being done in the past. At some point, every form of government relies on trust. I don't know if it is the best idea. Who would you send? If I were to say the deans of the PoliSci departments at Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Notre Dame, Columbia, and Brandice and just let those 7 figure it all out...would that be better? LOL.

I was kidding about the Deans...just to be clear. Huggy doesn't have much of a sense of humor sometimes.

 

[rdean]

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

And replace it with what?

 

[Liability]

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

The USA PATRIOT Act is a sound and basically reasonable measure. Like lots of other things, it has a significant potential to be misused and abused. Therefore, it must get closely scrutinized by appropriate Congressional oversight and COURT oversight.

I supported the original USA PATRIOT Act and I support the extensions.

Voting worked just fine.

 

[The T]

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

And replace it with what?

Couldn't resist it could you deany?

 

[rdean]

With the extention of the patriot act we can see our government is broken. Even the majority of TEA party members sent to D.C. voted for extending the patriot act. Voting no longer works, so when voting no longer works whats the next step to take?

44 'Tea Party Caucus' Members voted to renew Patriot Act - Los Angeles LA County Libertarian | Examiner.com

And replace it with what?

Couldn't resist it could you deany?

Don't you get tired of Republicans screaming for tearing down the government but not having a single idea what to replace it with? Do they really want us to be Afghanistan?

 

[HUGGY]

When you live under a system that was devised prior to street lights; is anybody surprised that we have problems? I'm not for gutting the government...its the best in the world (believe it or not). I am for updating the God Damn constitution to embrace the bedrock realities we face today.

It only works when persons of good faith serve. The parties have corrupted the process to the point of no return I'm afraid.

They run the elections; they appoint the electors who ultimately vote for President and Vice President; they actually negotiate the rules of debates at least at the Presidential level whereas the League of Women Voters once held that sacred of all electoral traditions, and they generally work to eliminate all moderates from the process.

No mention is made in the Constitution about political parties so they are not doing anything unconstitutional; they are, however, often times not acting in the best interest of the American people as a whole or the citizens of their States or Districts in the micro.

Take redistricting for example. Congressional districts are drawn to protect seats for whoever is doing the drawing. A constitutional order could change this to prevent such "gerrymandering". It should be a lottery of zip codes held every 6 years in my view (or at least 10 years as it is done now). Geographical restrictions should be damned. Currently Trent Franks represents part of suburban Phoenix...he also represents the Grand Canyon/Lake Mead area. Currently they don't give a damn about geography....what would it hurt? This should be job #1 of anybody who actually wants to fix the system instead of just bitching about it. Eventually a Dem will get a heavily Red zip code. He or she may get voted out. But maybe he or she will have to listen to a different voice from time to time...maybe they will change a few minds themselves. It's called leadership. It's called holding your elected officials feet to the fire. The best case is an informed citizenry.

I am for updating the God Damn constitution

Really.....AND just who do you trust to do THAT?

A constitutional convention where all states send delegates was the way I recall it being done in the past. At some point, every form of government relies on trust. I don't know if it is the best idea. Who would you send? If I were to say the deans of the PoliSci departments at Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Notre Dame, Columbia, and Brandice and just let those 7 figure it all out...would that be better? LOL.

That was then and this is now. There was one common enemy then that those who wanted a new republic free from a king or an ideologue. There are too few cool heads with no axe to grind. No one without an agenda would have enough support to be sent anywhere. It would be a clusterfuck and at best a waste of time..at worst...the most dangerous thing we as a nation could possibly embark on.

I would not support it in any fashion. Mine and possibly your ancestors did not fight and give their lives and blood to have some 21st century halfwits screw with the best document ever written.