Im at a loss for words

[DiveCon]

naive fools will get a lot of people killed

Agreed, which is why we kicked them out of Congress and the White House.

no, you just elected a bunch of them

 

[DavidS]

and NO WE DID NOT CREATE THE TALIBAN
that is a complete LIE

Create them or arm them? What's the difference? You can have a bunch of ugly monsterous thugs beating each other over the head with sticks or you can give them American AK-47s to fight the "evil" Soviet Union. I see no difference.

 

[DavidS]

naive fools will get a lot of people killed

Agreed, which is why we kicked them out of Congress and the White House.

no, you just elected a bunch of them

I promise you - I did not elect any naive fools...errr Republicans... again, same thing. Reagan's de-regulation of the banks allowed banks to do what got us into this mess, and his foreign policy antics have us involved in two wars.

What is they say? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. What happens when that enemy turns against you?

 

[DiveCon]

and NO WE DID NOT CREATE THE TALIBAN
that is a complete LIE

Create them or arm them? What's the difference? You can have a bunch of ugly monsterous thugs beating each other over the head with sticks or you can give them American AK-47s to fight the "evil" Soviet Union. I see no difference.

dude, we dont make AK47's
you clearly dont know shit

 

[DiveCon]

Agreed, which is why we kicked them out of Congress and the White House.

no, you just elected a bunch of them

I promise you - I did not elect any naive fools...errr Republicans... again, same thing. Reagan's de-regulation of the banks allowed banks to do what got us into this mess, and his foreign policy antics have us involved in two wars.

What is they say? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. What happens when that enemy turns against you?

no, the naive fools are mostly the democrats
and yes, YOU did elect many of them

 

[DavidS]

and NO WE DID NOT CREATE THE TALIBAN
that is a complete LIE

Create them or arm them? What's the difference? You can have a bunch of ugly monsterous thugs beating each other over the head with sticks or you can give them American AK-47s to fight the "evil" Soviet Union. I see no difference.

dude, we dont make AK47's
you clearly dont know shit

Brother, it was a rhetorical statement. Are you denying that the United States supplied the Mujahadeen aka the Taliban with weapons?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Create them or arm them? What's the difference? You can have a bunch of ugly monsterous thugs beating each other over the head with sticks or you can give them American AK-47s to fight the "evil" Soviet Union. I see no difference.

dude, we dont make AK47's
you clearly dont know shit

Brother, it was a rhetorical statement. Are you denying that the United States supplied the Mujahadeen aka the Taliban with weapons?

You are as stupid as a gnat. We supplied the Northern groups which never became the Taliban, in fact they fought the Taliban, that would be why we allied with them AGAIN when we went to war with the Taliban. You may need to actually learn what you are talking about.

 

[DavidS]

no, you just elected a bunch of them

I promise you - I did not elect any naive fools...errr Republicans... again, same thing. Reagan's de-regulation of the banks allowed banks to do what got us into this mess, and his foreign policy antics have us involved in two wars.

What is they say? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. What happens when that enemy turns against you?

no, the naive fools are mostly the democrats
and yes, YOU did elect many of them

Naive? The Republicans said we would be greeted as liberators in Iraq. 4500 dead US soldiers later and you think the Democrats are naive? Maybe YOU are naive. The blind leading the blind. No one knows... no one cares... let's just all shut up and talk about American Idol and my new iPod. What color iPod did you get? I really want the pastel green... humming along not thinking about how corrupt the world REALLY is ... just burying my head in the sand like a good ol' fashioned Republican!

 

[auditor0007]

I totally understand and I know some will say "look at his earlier threads" etc.

Obama mulls reaching out to moderate Taliban - NYT | Reuters

You dont mull SHIT ... what the fuck! The commander and chief have pow wows with terrioist?
If there was doubt during the campaign on this exact topic (if you read between the lines) why would you even touch it?

I am sorry to the ones I will offend, but he is in over his head and looking for a way out!

You're an idiot. You forget who created the Taliban in the FIRST place. WE DID. It's okay to create a guerilla warfare group in the name of saving some godforsaken desert piece of shit country with rules and laws centuries old all in the name of defeating communism, but when that same group turns against us, it's wrong? BLAME REAGAN YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE. HE CREATED THEM. WE gave Saddam his wmd's to fight Iran and then went to war with the same guy 20 years later.

Why do you think less boys and girls over in Iraq are coming home in body bags? Because we sat there, according to General David fucking Petreus and we TALKED to the very thugs who had American blood on their hands and we made deals with them.

The world isn't so black and white you conservative fuckers. We're not the good guys. Our policies in supporting the Shah of Iran caused Iran overthrow him and install an Islamic regieme. Our polices created Saddam. Our policies created the Taliban. Our policies caused 9/11. And the minute you fuckers realize that Mr. good old fashioned Reagan's policies who stole from the poor to give to the rich is the cause of today's financial and global problems, the sooner you'll realize that sitting down and talking to these murderous bastards is the RIGHT thing to do.

Unless we get a force of two million men strong and go to full-scale ground war with Pakistan, we will NEVER defeat the Tailban or Al Queda. This new policy allows us to separate the moderates from the whackos and allows them power-sharing in Afghanistan... kind of like what we did in the West Bank with Abbas.

I disagree with you David. You have some points, but the bottom line is that Muslims have been living by the sword since the time Mohammed began preaching his hatred and intolerance. Had we done everything differently in the past, we'd still be where we are today. You talk about these people in the desert with rules and laws that are centuries old. Well, these people want those centuries old laws to be the laws of modern society, even when they become part of modern societies.

You fail to see that these people do not want to live peacably amongst us even when they move into our societies. I agree that our support of certain individuals such as the Shah of Iran were mistakes in the long run. But that doesn't change the fact that the basic tenets of Islam call for the conversion of everyone to Islam by any means necessary. This is something very different from the teachings of other religions. Those of various religions may well try to convert others but it isn't with the idea that if others refuse to convert, they are Infidels who should have their heads cut off. Lastly, no matter what, there is no reconciliation with these people.

Just look at Israel. No matter what you believe about Israel, you can be certain that this is true; if Israel created one state for Jews and Arab Muslims to live together and work together, we know what the end result would be. The Muslims wouldn't be satisfied, until every single Jew was driven from this land. Tell me, what did the Christians in Lebanon do to make the Muslims want to drive them out? Not a damn thing is the answer. The Muslims moved in, eventually became the majority, and now wreak havoc on Christian society. They won't be happy until every single Christian is driven out of Lebanon. These people live for war and for their backward screwed up ideology.

So, you may be right to blame us for some of the problems, but you're missing the real problem. Thinking you can gain their respect is a mistake that many societies have tried and failed at in the past.

 

[DavidS]

dude, we dont make AK47's
you clearly dont know shit

Brother, it was a rhetorical statement. Are you denying that the United States supplied the Mujahadeen aka the Taliban with weapons?

You are as stupid as a gnat. We supplied the Northern groups which never became the Taliban, in fact they fought the Taliban, that would be why we allied with them AGAIN when we went to war with the Taliban. You may need to actually learn what you are talking about.

Complete and utter bullshit. You twist the facts to make your little Republican argument.

Hey, who's that shaking hands with Saddam Hussein? Why, it's Donald Rumsfeld!

 

[DiveCon]

I promise you - I did not elect any naive fools...errr Republicans... again, same thing. Reagan's de-regulation of the banks allowed banks to do what got us into this mess, and his foreign policy antics have us involved in two wars.

What is they say? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. What happens when that enemy turns against you?

no, the naive fools are mostly the democrats
and yes, YOU did elect many of them

Naive? The Republicans said we would be greeted as liberators in Iraq. 4500 dead US soldiers later and you think the Democrats are naive? Maybe YOU are naive. The blind leading the blind. No one knows... no one cares... let's just all shut up and talk about American Idol and my new iPod. What color iPod did you get? I really want the pastel green... humming along not thinking about how corrupt the world REALLY is ... just burying my head in the sand like a good ol' fashioned Republican!

and we were you moron

the problem was the post liberation period

 

[DiveCon]

Brother, it was a rhetorical statement. Are you denying that the United States supplied the Mujahadeen aka the Taliban with weapons?

You are as stupid as a gnat. We supplied the Northern groups which never became the Taliban, in fact they fought the Taliban, that would be why we allied with them AGAIN when we went to war with the Taliban. You may need to actually learn what you are talking about.

Complete and utter bullshit. You twist the facts to make your little Republican argument.

Hey, who's that shaking hands with Saddam Hussein? Why, it's Donald Rumsfeld!

Rumsfeld meeting with Saddam was not what you want to make it

 

[DiveCon]

btw, david, Israel should meet with Hamas i guess

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I promise you - I did not elect any naive fools...errr Republicans... again, same thing. Reagan's de-regulation of the banks allowed banks to do what got us into this mess, and his foreign policy antics have us involved in two wars.

What is they say? The enemy of my enemy is my friend. What happens when that enemy turns against you?

no, the naive fools are mostly the democrats
and yes, YOU did elect many of them

Naive? The Republicans said we would be greeted as liberators in Iraq. 4500 dead US soldiers later and you think the Democrats are naive? Maybe YOU are naive. The blind leading the blind. No one knows... no one cares... let's just all shut up and talk about American Idol and my new iPod. What color iPod did you get? I really want the pastel green... humming along not thinking about how corrupt the world REALLY is ... just burying my head in the sand like a good ol' fashioned Republican!

Remind us how Israel should invade and level Gaza and the west bank and should invade Lebanon. Perhaps the Israelis should talk to these guys and offer unilateral ceasefires, since they have worked so well in the past. Hypocrite.

 

[DiveCon]

no, the naive fools are mostly the democrats
and yes, YOU did elect many of them

Naive? The Republicans said we would be greeted as liberators in Iraq. 4500 dead US soldiers later and you think the Democrats are naive? Maybe YOU are naive. The blind leading the blind. No one knows... no one cares... let's just all shut up and talk about American Idol and my new iPod. What color iPod did you get? I really want the pastel green... humming along not thinking about how corrupt the world REALLY is ... just burying my head in the sand like a good ol' fashioned Republican!

Remind us how Israel should invade and level Gaza and the west bank and should invade Lebanon. Perhaps the Israelis should talk to these guys and offer unilateral ceasefires, since they have worked so well in the past. Hypocrite.

i guess david pussied out

 

[DavidS]

I disagree with you David. You have some points, but the bottom line is that Muslims have been living by the sword since the time Mohammed began preaching his hatred and intolerance.

My problem and bias against Muslims has been well-documented on this forum. But we have to do something because our current strategy isn't working. We either go in, full force and wipe every single one of those bastards off of the face of the Earth, or we make peace with them - let them rule their own kingdoms and give them what they want. Sometimes you have to give the hostage taker a pizza pie so he won't kill any hostages. It sucks, but we cannot afford to do a full-scale war, nor is there any American support of one. So the only way to solve this problem, short-term, is to compromise with them - make peace with the ones who want peace and kill all the rest.

Had we done everything differently in the past, we'd still be where we are today. You talk about these people in the desert with rules and laws that are centuries old. Well, these people want those centuries old laws to be the laws of modern society, even when they become part of modern societies. You fail to see that these people do not want to live peacably amongst us even when they move into our societies.

So, Michigan has a huge problem with Muslims? Does NYC have a problem with them? Answer: No. They can "domesticated." Give them flat screen TV's and SUV's to drive around in and they'll be happy. Also look at Abu Dabi or however the fuck you say it. Capitalism meets Islam.

I agree that our support of certain individuals such as the Shah of Iran were mistakes in the long run. But that doesn't change the fact that the basic tenets of Islam call for the conversion of everyone to Islam by any means necessary.

I don't see much difference between that and the Christians who try to convert the Jews to Christianity. They each believe they're right and they each believe that they are the ones who will rule Heaven one day. You people went around like madmen a few centuries ago killing all those who didn't believe in Christianity and converting the ones that were willing to change. Christianity didn't get 1 billion members to its religion by "spreading the Good News."

Normal Muslims don't kill people to get you to believe in what they believe in. There are 1 billion of them - and we're facing a threat from less than one million. Hell, less than 500,000. So, you're applying traits of 5% of a people to 100% of them. Believe me, pot calling kettle black when it applies to me - I'm not perfect, but I realize that and I'm trying to change. Not all Muslims are bad. Just the ones who want to kill us.

This is something very different from the teachings of other religions.

Crusades and inquisitions anyone?

Those of various religions may well try to convert others but it isn't with the idea that if others refuse to convert, they are Infidels who should have their heads cut off. Lastly, no matter what, there is no reconciliation with these people.

That's what the Jews said about the Christians when you overthrew our Muslim protectors of Israel 1000 years ago. Look how far you've come!

Just look at Israel. No matter what you believe about Israel, you can be certain that this is true; if Israel created one state for Jews and Arab Muslims to live together and work together, we know what the end result would be. The Muslims wouldn't be satisfied, until every single Jew was driven from this land.

Some, not all. Hamas comes to mind. I support a complete anhiliation of Hamas. I do not support an anihiliation of the West Bank or Abbas. They want peace. So, let's give it to them. Ramallah as their capital.

Tell me, what did the Christians in Lebanon do to make the Muslims want to drive them out? Not a damn thing is the answer.

What did the Muslims do 1000 years ago to make the Christians drive them out?

The Muslims moved in, eventually became the majority, and now wreak havoc on Christian society. They won't be happy until every single Christian is driven out of Lebanon. These people live for war and for their backward screwed up ideology. So, you may be right to blame us for some of the problems, but you're missing the real problem. Thinking you can gain their respect is a mistake that many societies have tried and failed at in the past.

The real problem is that people preach religion but follow violence. If people actually believed in their religions, the world would be at peace. No religion preaches violence - ESPECIALLY Islam. Islam believes you cannot be at peace until your neighbor at peace. The word "peace" is mentioned more times in the Qu'ran than it is at a 1960s Vietnam hippy rally.

 

[DavidS]

no, the naive fools are mostly the democrats
and yes, YOU did elect many of them

Naive? The Republicans said we would be greeted as liberators in Iraq. 4500 dead US soldiers later and you think the Democrats are naive? Maybe YOU are naive. The blind leading the blind. No one knows... no one cares... let's just all shut up and talk about American Idol and my new iPod. What color iPod did you get? I really want the pastel green... humming along not thinking about how corrupt the world REALLY is ... just burying my head in the sand like a good ol' fashioned Republican!

and we were you moron

the problem was the post liberation period

I have nothing to say but to express shock that you think we were greeted as liberators. We liberated Kosovo - and THEY threw roses at our feet. Iraqis threw live grenades at ours. There's a slight difference.

 

[DavidS]

You are as stupid as a gnat. We supplied the Northern groups which never became the Taliban, in fact they fought the Taliban, that would be why we allied with them AGAIN when we went to war with the Taliban. You may need to actually learn what you are talking about.

Complete and utter bullshit. You twist the facts to make your little Republican argument.

Hey, who's that shaking hands with Saddam Hussein? Why, it's Donald Rumsfeld!

Rumsfeld meeting with Saddam was not what you want to make it

No, we just gave him weapons of mass destruction that he used to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Completely innocent meeting.

 

[DavidS]

btw, david, Israel should meet with Hamas i guess

In 2001, we stopped meeting with them and leveled the West Bank and Gaza time after time after time. Finally we said "We'll make peace with you if...." and a faction rose up, put down their weapons and said "if....?" the other factions are still trying to figure out how to anhilate Israel. There IS such a thing as a moderate Arab-Muslim. Abbas, Fayyad, etc. This is our policy by sitting down with the Taliban. We make deals with the moderates and wipe out the extremists.

 

[DiveCon]

Complete and utter bullshit. You twist the facts to make your little Republican argument.

Hey, who's that shaking hands with Saddam Hussein? Why, it's Donald Rumsfeld!

Rumsfeld meeting with Saddam was not what you want to make it

No, we just gave him weapons of mass destruction that he used to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Completely innocent meeting.

another LIE