- Moderator
- #21
I was wondering the same thing, more in terms of is there a such thing as a moderate extremist?
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Im at a loss for words
- Thread starter pete
- Start date
I was wondering the same thing, more in terms of is there a such thing as a moderate extremist?
- Moderator
- #22
All we need to do is leave, and these muslims will be killing each other in no time.
Ive got it, their lives means absolutely nothing to you.
- Moderator
- #23
so what harm is there in exploring every avenue out of this war on terror?
Unilateral ceasefires dont work if the other sides the one that started the war. Is this really that difficult of a concept to understand?
Gunny
Gold Member
I totally understand and I know some will say "look at his earlier threads" etc.
Obama mulls reaching out to moderate Taliban - NYT | Reuters
You dont mull SHIT ... what the fuck! The commander and chief have pow wows with terrioist?
If there was doubt during the campaign on this exact topic (if you read between the lines) why would you even touch it?
I am sorry to the ones I will offend, but he is in over his head and looking for a way out!
I've been giving Obama the benefit of doubt mostly since the election. Giving him his chance. Bad enough he wants to kiss Hamas' ass, but that can always be caveated as like it or not, it IS the official government of a foreign nation.
If he negotiates with an outlawed terrorist organization, he's done as far as I'm concerned. I will however wait for the "if" to materialize before pronouncing judgment.
I'm sure every President from Truman thru Reagan "mulled" nuking the Soviets. They were just smart enough to keep it to themselves. And, none of them did.
i am waiting for Rayboy to come on and back the prez....
Gunny
Gold Member
All we need to do is leave, and these muslims will be killing each other in no time.
Right. We tried that. The result was 9/11.
Gunny
Gold Member
i am waiting for Rayboy to come on and back the prez....
Raybaugh won't do that. He's a leftwingnut. He'll pretend this thread doesn't exist.
I think he's a Robert DeNiro fan myself. Probably spends hours looking at himself in the mirror, imagining he's actually face-to-face with a *gasp* real, live conservative and asking, "You talkin' ta me?"
Neser Boha
upgrade your gray matter
so what harm is there in exploring every avenue out of this war on terror?
My sentiments exactly.
The Taliban, which is an Afghani organization supported Al Qada because Alqada worked with them to oust the Russians.
As AlQada was a guest of the Taliban, they could not just hand them over to the Americans. Those of you who know something about that culture will understand why they could not.
So, quite rightly, the USA came in a crushed the Taliban.
And now we're there supporting not a government, but a city government which has virtually NO real authority outside of the capital.
IF we set the Taliban on the task of tracking down Alqada, they could do easily compared to us expecting our troops to do it.
So in my opinion, talking to these guys make real politik sense.
Do I like what they stand for?
No.
But hey, I don't especially like what the Saudi regime stand for, either, but they are our allies.
We have just got to learn that not everybody wants to be just like us.
This is international politics, not a Junior High school dance, for god's sakes.
As AlQada was a guest of the Taliban, they could not just hand them over to the Americans. Those of you who know something about that culture will understand why they could not.
So, quite rightly, the USA came in a crushed the Taliban.
And now we're there supporting not a government, but a city government which has virtually NO real authority outside of the capital.
IF we set the Taliban on the task of tracking down Alqada, they could do easily compared to us expecting our troops to do it.
So in my opinion, talking to these guys make real politik sense.
Do I like what they stand for?
No.
But hey, I don't especially like what the Saudi regime stand for, either, but they are our allies.
We have just got to learn that not everybody wants to be just like us.
This is international politics, not a Junior High school dance, for god's sakes.
A fools paradise is a scholar's hell. (unk)
No, Al Qaeda did NOT help do anything against the RussiansThe Taliban, which is an Afghani organization supported Al Qada because Alqada worked with them to oust the Russians.
As AlQada was a guest of the Taliban, they could not just hand them over to the Americans. Those of you who know something about that culture will understand why they could not.
So, quite rightly, the USA came in a crushed the Taliban.
And now we're there supporting not a government, but a city government which has virtually NO real authority outside of the capital.
IF we set the Taliban on the task of tracking down Alqada, they could do easily compared to us expecting our troops to do it.
So in my opinion, talking to these guys make real politik sense.
Do I like what they stand for?
No.
But hey, I don't especially like what the Saudi regime stand for, either, but they are our allies.
We have just got to learn that not everybody wants to be just like us.
This is international politics, not a Junior High school dance, for god's sakes.
that is a complete lie
and NO, i dont give a rats ass how many fucking links you post that says they did
they DIDNT
The Taliban, which is an Afghani organization supported Al Qada because Alqada worked with them to oust the Russians.
As AlQada was a guest of the Taliban, they could not just hand them over to the Americans. Those of you who know something about that culture will understand why they could not.
So, quite rightly, the USA came in a crushed the Taliban.
And now we're there supporting not a government, but a city government which has virtually NO real authority outside of the capital.
IF we set the Taliban on the task of tracking down Alqada, they could do easily compared to us expecting our troops to do it.
So in my opinion, talking to these guys make real politik sense.
Do I like what they stand for?
No.
But hey, I don't especially like what the Saudi regime stand for, either, but they are our allies.
We have just got to learn that not everybody wants to be just like us.
This is international politics, not a Junior High school dance, for god's sakes.
So you are not one of the leftoids that routinely bitch about the allies we have had in the past? No comments about dictators and despots from you?
auditor0007
Gold Member
When I first read about this, I chalked it up to the left wing being clueless as is the norm when it comes to these matters. I do understand the dilemna. The Afghan government has no control whatsoever, outside of Kabul. There is no wasy we will ever be able to leave Afghanistan unless the Taliban is incorportated into the solution.
Here's the real problem. What Obama and so many don't understand, is that the best that could ever be hoped for is a truce that won't last. Eventually the Taliban would only grow stronger and take over control of the entire country once again. The Taliban are the ones who blew up the Buddhist sculptures in the mountains that had been there for a few thousand years. They have no tolerance toward anyone, and that will never change.
It's like trying to have a truce between Hamas and Israel. When Hamas is getting their asses whooped, they agree to a truce, so they can regroup and rearm. Then when they're ready, they attack once again. These fundamentalist Muslims, which includes the majority of Muslims, are never going to be tolerant of anyone else. It doesn't matter if it's Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, or any other fringe group. They want to see our conversion to Islam in its most primate form, or they want to see our death. And they will continue to work toward this so long as they exist.
At no time in the history of Islam, have Muslims been peace loving people. When they are the minority, they try to get along, to put on a good face, to show how they just want to get along with everyone. However, once they become the majority, everything changes. Then they show their true colors and force the conversion of as many as they can or force others out. This has been there pattern for nearly 1400 years. Why should or would we think this will ever change?
Given the opportunity, they might call for a break in warfare within Afghanistan. But you can be certain, that their longterm goal would only be to regain control so they can continue training to defeat the Infidels.
And I'm sure those like Shogun will show up with their arguments of how everyone else is to blame and the Muslims are just innocent people, and that we just don't understand their ways. We understand them all right. It's just that too many have gotten caught up in political corectness even though everyone can see that Muslims use PC against us to help them achieve their goals.
Oh, and the argument that Christians were just as bad during the Crusades? Two points; one, the main reason for the Crusades was to reopen the route from Europe to the Holy Land for Christians. For hundreds of years, Christians made the journey from Europe to the Holy Land. When the Muslims took control, they wouldn't allow those Christians access to the Holy Land anymore. The Crusaders opened up that path again. Secondly, the Crusaders weren't on a mission to convert Muslims or to kill them off or drive them away so those lands could be settled as Christian nations.
The bottom line is that there is no discussing things with fundamentalist Muslims. They have their agenda and goals and only laugh at us and our ways. They want our conversion or destruction; one or the other. It is what they are taught from the day they are born until the day that they die, and they use the Koran as their guide. The reason everyone throughout the rest of the world should be so worried, is that these people do not value life as the rest of us do. They are happy to die for their cause. They are willing to go further than most of us, and this is why they are so dangerous. No, they are not an immediate threat. They're not going to take over the world tomorrow. But if we don't stand up to them now, they will continue to move closer to their goal, and eventually, they may just achieve what they want.
Obama has no clue, and neither did Bush for that matter, when it comes to Islam. That goes for the vast majority of the rest of this world's leaders. All we ever hear is how we know most Muslims are moderate people who don't believe in this violence and that most Muslims just want to get along like everyone else. Well, that is not what most Muslims want. Most Muslims want to convert us to their ways and want Sharia Law established through Theocratic rule throughout the world. These moderates even tell us that this is their end goal, while telling us we shouldn't fear them and that we should embrace them.
So yes, call me a bigot. Call me a racist, although this is not about race. I just call it like I see it, and I'm calling them out on it now. I'm not waiting until they've taken over Europe and are knocking on the door in Canada and Australia after that. It's not the people that we should fear; it's Islam itself. The only thing that will ever change this is if Muslims re-evaluate what their religion means and change their mind on what is written in the Koran, or they reject Islam's teachings and convert to another more tolerant religion, or evenually we all will be at war with them throughout the world.
Now, if you need any more evidence, let's look at what parts of the world might be considered unstable today. Israel/Gaza/West Bank, Kashmir, Darfur, Lebanon, Thailand, the Phillipines, Chechnya, and I'm sure I could go on and on and on. Hmmm, they all involve Muslim aggression. Yes, we can argue that there are reasons for this as some of those areas involve large Muslim populations that want independence such as in Kashmir. But the fact remains, Muslims are at the core of the problem in all of these regions. In regions where they are becoming a larger part of the population, they have already begun their terrorist attacks. We've already seen it begin in Europe, and it's only going to get worse as their population increases. This is their way, and it's not because the rest of the world has wronged these people. It's because of their religion. No other religion tells it's followers to cut off the heads of the non-believers. Yet, we continue to look the other way and apologize for these people insisting that it's only a few of them; that most of them are really practicing a religion of love and tolerance.
The only question remaining is when will the rest of the world wake up and understand what is happening, and finally react with force against it.
Here's the real problem. What Obama and so many don't understand, is that the best that could ever be hoped for is a truce that won't last. Eventually the Taliban would only grow stronger and take over control of the entire country once again. The Taliban are the ones who blew up the Buddhist sculptures in the mountains that had been there for a few thousand years. They have no tolerance toward anyone, and that will never change.
It's like trying to have a truce between Hamas and Israel. When Hamas is getting their asses whooped, they agree to a truce, so they can regroup and rearm. Then when they're ready, they attack once again. These fundamentalist Muslims, which includes the majority of Muslims, are never going to be tolerant of anyone else. It doesn't matter if it's Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, or any other fringe group. They want to see our conversion to Islam in its most primate form, or they want to see our death. And they will continue to work toward this so long as they exist.
At no time in the history of Islam, have Muslims been peace loving people. When they are the minority, they try to get along, to put on a good face, to show how they just want to get along with everyone. However, once they become the majority, everything changes. Then they show their true colors and force the conversion of as many as they can or force others out. This has been there pattern for nearly 1400 years. Why should or would we think this will ever change?
Given the opportunity, they might call for a break in warfare within Afghanistan. But you can be certain, that their longterm goal would only be to regain control so they can continue training to defeat the Infidels.
And I'm sure those like Shogun will show up with their arguments of how everyone else is to blame and the Muslims are just innocent people, and that we just don't understand their ways. We understand them all right. It's just that too many have gotten caught up in political corectness even though everyone can see that Muslims use PC against us to help them achieve their goals.
Oh, and the argument that Christians were just as bad during the Crusades? Two points; one, the main reason for the Crusades was to reopen the route from Europe to the Holy Land for Christians. For hundreds of years, Christians made the journey from Europe to the Holy Land. When the Muslims took control, they wouldn't allow those Christians access to the Holy Land anymore. The Crusaders opened up that path again. Secondly, the Crusaders weren't on a mission to convert Muslims or to kill them off or drive them away so those lands could be settled as Christian nations.
The bottom line is that there is no discussing things with fundamentalist Muslims. They have their agenda and goals and only laugh at us and our ways. They want our conversion or destruction; one or the other. It is what they are taught from the day they are born until the day that they die, and they use the Koran as their guide. The reason everyone throughout the rest of the world should be so worried, is that these people do not value life as the rest of us do. They are happy to die for their cause. They are willing to go further than most of us, and this is why they are so dangerous. No, they are not an immediate threat. They're not going to take over the world tomorrow. But if we don't stand up to them now, they will continue to move closer to their goal, and eventually, they may just achieve what they want.
Obama has no clue, and neither did Bush for that matter, when it comes to Islam. That goes for the vast majority of the rest of this world's leaders. All we ever hear is how we know most Muslims are moderate people who don't believe in this violence and that most Muslims just want to get along like everyone else. Well, that is not what most Muslims want. Most Muslims want to convert us to their ways and want Sharia Law established through Theocratic rule throughout the world. These moderates even tell us that this is their end goal, while telling us we shouldn't fear them and that we should embrace them.
So yes, call me a bigot. Call me a racist, although this is not about race. I just call it like I see it, and I'm calling them out on it now. I'm not waiting until they've taken over Europe and are knocking on the door in Canada and Australia after that. It's not the people that we should fear; it's Islam itself. The only thing that will ever change this is if Muslims re-evaluate what their religion means and change their mind on what is written in the Koran, or they reject Islam's teachings and convert to another more tolerant religion, or evenually we all will be at war with them throughout the world.
Now, if you need any more evidence, let's look at what parts of the world might be considered unstable today. Israel/Gaza/West Bank, Kashmir, Darfur, Lebanon, Thailand, the Phillipines, Chechnya, and I'm sure I could go on and on and on. Hmmm, they all involve Muslim aggression. Yes, we can argue that there are reasons for this as some of those areas involve large Muslim populations that want independence such as in Kashmir. But the fact remains, Muslims are at the core of the problem in all of these regions. In regions where they are becoming a larger part of the population, they have already begun their terrorist attacks. We've already seen it begin in Europe, and it's only going to get worse as their population increases. This is their way, and it's not because the rest of the world has wronged these people. It's because of their religion. No other religion tells it's followers to cut off the heads of the non-believers. Yet, we continue to look the other way and apologize for these people insisting that it's only a few of them; that most of them are really practicing a religion of love and tolerance.
The only question remaining is when will the rest of the world wake up and understand what is happening, and finally react with force against it.
DavidS
Anti-Tea Party Member
I totally understand and I know some will say "look at his earlier threads" etc.
Obama mulls reaching out to moderate Taliban - NYT | Reuters
You dont mull SHIT ... what the fuck! The commander and chief have pow wows with terrioist?
If there was doubt during the campaign on this exact topic (if you read between the lines) why would you even touch it?
I am sorry to the ones I will offend, but he is in over his head and looking for a way out!
You're an idiot. You forget who created the Taliban in the FIRST place. WE DID. It's okay to create a guerilla warfare group in the name of saving some godforsaken desert piece of shit country with rules and laws centuries old all in the name of defeating communism, but when that same group turns against us, it's wrong? BLAME REAGAN YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE. HE CREATED THEM. WE gave Saddam his wmd's to fight Iran and then went to war with the same guy 20 years later.
Why do you think less boys and girls over in Iraq are coming home in body bags? Because we sat there, according to General David fucking Petreus and we TALKED to the very thugs who had American blood on their hands and we made deals with them.
The world isn't so black and white you conservative fuckers. We're not the good guys. Our policies in supporting the Shah of Iran caused Iran overthrow him and install an Islamic regieme. Our polices created Saddam. Our policies created the Taliban. Our policies caused 9/11. And the minute you fuckers realize that Mr. good old fashioned Reagan's policies who stole from the poor to give to the rich is the cause of today's financial and global problems, the sooner you'll realize that sitting down and talking to these murderous bastards is the RIGHT thing to do.
Unless we get a force of two million men strong and go to full-scale ground war with Pakistan, we will NEVER defeat the Tailban or Al Queda. This new policy allows us to separate the moderates from the whackos and allows them power-sharing in Afghanistan... kind of like what we did in the West Bank with Abbas.
DavidS
Anti-Tea Party Member
Come on ... its not about but 1 thing but Terriost and we DO NOT negotiate ... I guess we now do or will soon.
Petraeus sees value in talking to Taliban | International | Reuters
Read it and weep.
Come on ... its not about but 1 thing but Terriost and we DO NOT negotiate ... I guess we now do or will soon.
Petraeus sees value in talking to Taliban | International | Reuters
Read it and weep.
not exactly the same thing"If there are people who are willing to reconcile (with the government), then that would be a positive step in some of these areas that have actually been spiraling downward," said Petraeus, who will soon take up responsibility for U.S. operations in Afghanistan.
and NO WE DID NOT CREATE THE TALIBANI totally understand and I know some will say "look at his earlier threads" etc.
Obama mulls reaching out to moderate Taliban - NYT | Reuters
You dont mull SHIT ... what the fuck! The commander and chief have pow wows with terrioist?
If there was doubt during the campaign on this exact topic (if you read between the lines) why would you even touch it?
I am sorry to the ones I will offend, but he is in over his head and looking for a way out!
You're an idiot. You forget who created the Taliban in the FIRST place. WE DID. It's okay to create a guerilla warfare group in the name of saving some godforsaken desert piece of shit country with rules and laws centuries old all in the name of defeating communism, but when that same group turns against us, it's wrong? BLAME REAGAN YOU FUCKING HYPOCRITE. HE CREATED THEM. WE gave Saddam his wmd's to fight Iran and then went to war with the same guy 20 years later.
Why do you think less boys and girls over in Iraq are coming home in body bags? Because we sat there, according to General David fucking Petreus and we TALKED to the very thugs who had American blood on their hands and we made deals with them.
The world isn't so black and white you conservative fuckers. We're not the good guys. Our policies in supporting the Shah of Iran caused Iran overthrow him and install an Islamic regieme. Our polices created Saddam. Our policies created the Taliban. Our policies caused 9/11. And the minute you fuckers realize that Mr. good old fashioned Reagan's policies who stole from the poor to give to the rich is the cause of today's financial and global problems, the sooner you'll realize that sitting down and talking to these murderous bastards is the RIGHT thing to do.
Unless we get a force of two million men strong and go to full-scale ground war with Pakistan, we will NEVER defeat the Tailban or Al Queda. This new policy allows us to separate the moderates from the whackos and allows them power-sharing in Afghanistan... kind of like what we did in the West Bank with Abbas.
that is a complete LIE
DavidS
Anti-Tea Party Member
is there such a thing as a moderate blood thirsty killer?
I was wondering the same thing, more in terms of is there a such thing as a moderate extremist?
Abbas planned Black September. He's now the ruler of the West Bank and is welcome over at the White House from both the previous and the current administration.
How many were killed in Russia's war in Chechnya and yet Putin receives state dinners in his honor.
You tell me.
DavidS
Anti-Tea Party Member
naive fools will get a lot of people killed
Agreed, which is why we kicked them out of Congress and the White House.
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