If Trump is elected we are so screwed.

[Andylusion]

This is correct. There is a big difference between an individual filing a ch. 7 bankruptcy and a corporation restructuring under a ch. 11.

We realize that. But he has done it four times. He is abusing the bankruptcy code to rip off investors. Once is ok. There are force majeure reasons to do that, so twice, while pushing it, can happen. But four times is deliberate fraud

Those ch 11 filings probably involved different companies. Also, equity holders usually get paid pretty well as administrative claimants.

Wrong. Equity holders typically are wiped out.

So, basically, his bankruptcies mean that he fucked over lots of people just to get himself out of a financial mess. Four times. And this is someone who should be overseeing the US economy? No.

You do not know that, and neither do I. Maybe his company bankruptcies paid a substantial dividend to equity holders pursuant to the reorganization plan. Equity holders do not necessarily get fucked (though it admittedly happens a lot).

You also don't know if Trump had a choice in the matter. The creditors may have forced the bankruptcy.

Lot of ASSumptions being tossed around in here.

 

[Andylusion]

The last four presidents were hardly aweful. Obama is truly awful and his policies are a disaster. Bush was mostly good with some bad calls. Clinton was mostly bad with some good calls. Trump will be horrendous.

W was great if you love big government and meddling in everyone's shit

SOmetimes you need big government. Post 9/11 was one of those times.

Attacking Afghanistan I was for, we were attacked. Nation building in Afghanistan, invading Iraq, not so much.

We werent nation building until Obozo came on board. Iraq was absilutely the right decision but we've disagreed about it before.
The steel tariffs were a bonehead move. So was the drug benefit. The tax cuts were right on.

It's not just foreign policy, some domestic examples:

He proposed budgets that grow government by every measure (GDP, inflation, etc.) BEFORE negotiating with the Democrats.
He eliminated no agencies or programs
He never vetoed a spending bill
He signed transportation Xmas tree
He said so called campaign finance reform was unconstitutional, correctly, then signed it
He got the no child gets ahead legislation through
He added a prescription drug welfare benefit to medicare
He made more illegals legal while getting zero back from the Democrats in terms of reform
Didn't defend his policies leaving Democrats to define them for him

W seemed to think of himself as Reaganesque, above the fray. Actually, he looked clueless and out of touch. Reagan stayed out of the muck, but he always responded, just not how they wanted him to. For example in the debate with Mondale when Mondale went on a liberal diatribe, and rather than just responding to it point by point, which was useless, he said, "there you go again..." He got a laugh, it was clear what he was saying, what a bunch of liberal crap

This is another example of why we were not supposed to be a democracy. What people "look like" only matters if the entire thing is politicized, and you are trying to convinced ignorant voters to vote for you.

If Bush had spent his time defending every single policy position he had, he would never have done anything but stand around all year long, defending himself. That's impossible.

And honestly, everything you claim Bush looked like, is exactly what they said about Reagan, because he did the same thing. Every time they attack Reagan over a policy, he would crack a joke, and blow them off. They constantly said he was "clueless and out of touch". Now in retrospect, we know he was very much in control and involved in his policies.

I wager in decades to come, much of what we thought Bush was out of touch on, will turn out to be wrong. Doesn't mean they were all brilliant moves, certainly not. No president ever does everything perfectly right. But I don't think Bush was nearly as clueless and out of touch as some would love to claim.

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, that might make him over qualified. Most bankruptcy filings now, are consumers. And unlike a business bankruptcy, where a business believes they will get a return on the investment to pay back a loan... consumers just borrow and borrow, blow the money on consumption. You don't think a consumer believes that this hot new Mustang is going to generate money to pay back the loan with, right? No, the Mustang loses money. And everyone knows this. So which bankruptcy is more irresponsible?

62% of bankruptcies are due to medical expenses. 75% of those people had insurance when the medical crisis started. Your portrayal of consumers being 'irresponsible' is a fallacy.

This is a case of rich people exploiting working people, and you are oooh, so fine with it.

 

[JoeB131]

If Bush had spent his time defending every single policy position he had, he would never have done anything but stand around all year long, defending himself. That's impossible.

If someone had bothered to actually question the stupid shit Bush wanted to do, maybe we could have stopped that fuckup from doing some of them.

 

[Andylusion]

Actually, that might make him over qualified. Most bankruptcy filings now, are consumers. And unlike a business bankruptcy, where a business believes they will get a return on the investment to pay back a loan... consumers just borrow and borrow, blow the money on consumption. You don't think a consumer believes that this hot new Mustang is going to generate money to pay back the loan with, right? No, the Mustang loses money. And everyone knows this. So which bankruptcy is more irresponsible?

62% of bankruptcies are due to medical expenses. 75% of those people had insurance when the medical crisis started. Your portrayal of consumers being 'irresponsible' is a fallacy.

This is a case of rich people exploiting working people, and you are oooh, so fine with it.

Not true. Sorry.

What you people never do, is actually read the crap you cite.

 

[Andylusion]

If Bush had spent his time defending every single policy position he had, he would never have done anything but stand around all year long, defending himself. That's impossible.

If someone had bothered to actually question the stupid shit Bush wanted to do, maybe we could have stopped that fuckup from doing some of them.

Yeah, like pushing banks to make sub-prime loans in the 90s, which caused a massive bubble that blew up in 2008?

 

[SwimExpert]

Why people support Trump:

Oh right, because Obama and the Dims are building the country up!

Dims are so fucking stupid it defies comprehension.

Obama has been a fucking disaster. He's a miracle next to Trump.

 

[bripat9643]

Why people support Trump:

Oh right, because Obama and the Dims are building the country up!

Dims are so fucking stupid it defies comprehension.

Obama has been a fucking disaster. He's a miracle next to Trump.

How would you know? Trump has never been in office.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Trump won't be president.

 

[SwimExpert]

How would you know? Trump has never been in office.

I can tell that you've never interviewed anyone for a job before.

 

[Andylusion]

Trump won't be president.

I wish.... but if Hillary is the nominee, then Trump or whoever, will automatically get a ton of vote, just because the she-devil is on the other side.

Additionally, never underestimate the under dog. Trump may not be the polished candidate, but then no one thought that trailer trash scum Clinton would win either. You never know.

 

[bripat9643]

Trump won't be president.

Whistling past the graveyard.

Do you actually think the voters are going to endorse that cesspool of corruption, Hillary Clinton?

 

[JoeB131]

Yeah, like pushing banks to make sub-prime loans in the 90s, which caused a massive bubble that blew up in 2008?

Except that isn't what happened, nor did they cause the Recession.

Okay, guy, the problem was not 'sub-prime' loans. the problem was that banks sold those loans as investments, and misstated their value.

 

[bripat9643]

How would you know? Trump has never been in office.

I can tell that you've never interviewed anyone for a job before.

Sure I have, and I almost always pick good employees.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Trump won't be president.

Whistling past the graveyard.

Do you actually think the voters are going to endorse that cesspool of corruption, Hillary Clinton?

I think Jeb Bush could beat Hillary.

 

[Papageorgio]

If Trump is elected we are so screwed.

Trump says he will make foreign countries respect America more.

But how can he do that when nobody respects HIM.

Marco Rubio has deep knowledge of what's going on in the Middle East.

Trump promises that by the time he takes office, he will study up and be ready when he starts.

What's stopping him from studying NOW?

Trump's solution to the immigration crisis is to insult millions of Hispanics and turn them off the Republican Party.

Trump is a big loudmouth who thinks he's a big success story, but he has had to file for bankrupty four times.

Trump is a complete disaster waiting to happen.

Trump's insults of women show he doesn't even know how to act like a civilized person.

Most left-wingers on this forum are loudmouths that think they succeed at debating.

After all the millions on millions of insults directed at Sarah Palin, by people who didn't know her... Hypocrite much?

Most politicians are a disaster waiting to happen. I'm convinced Hillary would be a bigger disaster by magnitude.

Foreign respect for the US? Under Obama?

African respect?

India respect?

Turkey respect?

And you are worried about Trump losing foreign respect? Little late to worry about something already lost.

I personally think we're in trouble, regardless of who wins. Obama has set the country on a course to bankruptcy, and anyone who wins the election, is going to have major problems.

I live overseas and work with people from India and Africa. I lived in Turkey for 2 years. You are looking at isolated incidents, not at the overall picture. GW Bush was loathed in all of those places. If there are some people not happy with Obama, it is nothing like their hatred of Bush. I travel and deal with people around the world all the time and have not at all been given the impression that Obama has worsened our reputation around the world: quite the opposite.

You live overseas? Wow none of us knew that! Lol! Now, report me for bring into it up.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Blackrook

If Trump is elected we are so screwed.

elected what?

Trump has yet to win the GOP nomination.

If a bear shit in the trees?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

makes no sense, does it?

see?

"trees?"


See it yet?

makes no sense

Blackroose?

 

[Preacher]

Guess it helps that I could care less if American collapses...elect the worse candidate if that's Trump then so be it! At least we will get some comedy gold while American falls apart!

 

[browsing deer]

Yeah, like pushing banks to make sub-prime loans in the 90s, which caused a massive bubble that blew up in 2008?

Except that isn't what happened, nor did they cause the Recession.

Okay, guy, the problem was not 'sub-prime' loans. the problem was that banks sold those loans as investments, and misstated their value.

SAY WHAT?

A thing is not the problem, its sold as fancy goods is the problem? You're so desperate to paint Bush is the problem you toss logic out the window and indorse gibberish.

You know, my Friends, with what a brave Carouse
I made a Second Marriage in my house;
Divorced old barren Reason from my Bed
And took the Daughter of the Vine to Spouse.