If crimes "begin and end with the criminals who commit them,"....

[Madeline]

He still makes a good point...one I've made myself.

I have as yet to meet a Muslim I didn't like.

And even tho Sunni Man and I often disagree, I like him personally.

But I still oppose the GZ Mosque for the exact reason Revere put forward.

Just like I would oppose a Shinto Shrine built at Pearl Harbor during WWII or a Glock outlet opening next to the Safeway in Tuscon next month.

When Muslim extremist are no longer plotting to kill us, we can revisit the subject.

You cannot apply vicarious liability to one group and not to another, Missourian.

That is why I have said Revere puts himself into a pretzel shape.

Bullshit. To say a lone gunman with no particular political views and no backing is the same as the thousands of zealots, fueled by $$ and rhetoric of their imams are the same is juvenile and dangerous.

Stop defending terrorism, Madeline. It's not a good thing. Even if you do it by pretending it doesn't exist. It does exist, and it's a fucking crime. Islam is a controlled and carefully orchestrated terrorist movement.

Arizona lunatic acting on his own is not.

There are no groups of right wingers dancing in the streets waving signs that say "Death to Liberals!" or people stepping forward to support this guy's family. If he dies tomorrow, he won't be considered a martyr; there will be no mother saying "I'm proud of what my son did!"

I can't believe you cannot fathom the difference.

I know you spoke with passion, Allie, but it is upsetting to read "stop supporting terrorists, Madeline".

A false allegation, Allie. Unless you happen to think that freedom of religion = supporting terrorists.

You stepped on my feelings a bit there, girl.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So if a crime begins and ends with the criminal, according to Palin,

does that mean that in the case of a Jew being murdered in medieval times by someone who had heard the stories of Jews killing children for their blood (the blood libel of Palin's speech)

...that crime ONLY began and ended with the murderer and his act?

...that crime didn't begin with the stories concocted to demonize Jews?

...that crime didn't begin with vitriolic, inflammatory, inciteful rhetoric spread through that society?

Really? Did she really intend to refute her own argument in the same speech?????

 

[NYcarbineer]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

What are you parsing?

What POINT are you trying to relay?

You are MIXING events.

As to the Mosque genius?

The American people have an aversion to allowing the RELIGION of the KILLERS from that day holding SACRED GROUND.

Or aren't you that fucking bright and showing your lackluster brillience at being a Statist moron?

There's a different sort of blood libel.

 

[Trajan]

The context is to simply point out that Palin says one thing, but does another.

For the larger issue, If you are going to take that route, then is Islam an inherently evil/violent religion?

what thing has she done and what other thing has she done?

The quote in the title is hers. Opposing the mosque is the thing that she has done.

If "crimes begin and end with the criminal who committed them", then why hold an entire religion accountable for the actions of 19 people.

I just answered you.

 

[thereisnospoon]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

History and symbolism are part of our fabric.
For example. Most Southerners hold the Confederate Battle Flag in reverence based on Heritage. To black people, the flag is a symbol of hate and intolerance.
Focusing on your query, if you'd look at where mosques have been erected in recent years you'd see a pattern. That being, the locations of mosques where Muslim terrorist acts have been perpetrated on innocent people. There is a Mosque near the site of the London and Madrid subway bombings. These locations are not by happenstance or coincidence.
Islam is a religion that conquers. Islam is intolerant of other religions.
Read the Koran. You'll see where the book commands Muslims to convert the non-believer or kill him.
OK, fire back in anger. Then after you've blown off steam, do as I ask, and read.

 

[NYcarbineer]

That Palin can say crimes begin and end with the criminal and also oppose the NYC mosque is easily explained.

She's an intellectually bankrupt hypocrite who simply mutilates the facts and reason and logic so that it fits her agenda.

In that she's hardly unique.

 

[thereisnospoon]

You are somehow equating the religion of a set of perpertators to a henous crime...that seem right to you, in the land of the free?

The Glock dealer was no more a perpetrator than the American Imam.

The Glock dealer would not think to open up a store on the site of a mass murder. Nobody would defend the decency of his decision to do that, including me.

The American Imam, he doesn't have the same decency and respect.

So just how far is the standoff from Ground Zero to the point where you want to afford Americans their constitutional rights?

Just because we have a right to do something ,does not mean that we should do it.

 

[Talismen]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

For the same reason the local Glock dealer would not open up a store in the same strip mall where 20 people got shot, 6 killed.

It's the decent and respectful thing to do.

Does it hurt your back to twist this way? Didn't you just spend four days complaining that my suggestion that violent rhetoric was bad for us was quashing free speech?

Oh come on Madeline, of all people, YOU should understand this issue.
Here's a question for you:

If someone were to propose tearing down Auschwitz or the Holocaust memorial and replacing it with an "earth-friendly German car dealership"....How would you react?

Come come now...Be truthful.

 

[rikules]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

For the same reason the local Glock dealer would not open up a store in the same strip mall where 20 people got shot, 6 killed.

It's the decent and respectful thing to do.

if palin and limbaugh (on and on and on and on)
can NOT be accused of inciting vilence with their HATE SPEECH
and ALL responsibility for acts of violence fall on the perpetrators of that violence...

then, using that same logic,
ONLY the 9/11 terrorists are guilty of VIOLENCE
and NOT islam


ONLY the 9/11 terrorists are guilty of violence
and NOT muslims in general

using conservative logic; the preachers of islamic hate towards America are NO MORE GUILTY of associated violence than palin and limbaugh are


using conservative logic......hitler, who did NOT KILL ANYONE, is NOT guilty of ANY ATROCTIES committed during WWII

 

[NYcarbineer]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

History and symbolism are part of our fabric.
For example. Most Southerners hold the Confederate Battle Flag in reverence based on Heritage. To black people, the flag is a symbol of hate and intolerance.
Focusing on your query, if you'd look at where mosques have been erected in recent years you'd see a pattern. That being, the locations of mosques where Muslim terrorist acts have been perpetrated on innocent people. There is a Mosque near the site of the London and Madrid subway bombings. These locations are not by happenstance or coincidence.
Islam is a religion that conquers. Islam is intolerant of other religions.
Read the Koran. You'll see where the book commands Muslims to convert the non-believer or kill him.
OK, fire back in anger. Then after you've blown off steam, do as I ask, and read.

And the mosque/community center being built in Murfreesboro, TN, that the local bigots have been fighting to stop?

What is that a symbol of?

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Glock dealer was no more a perpetrator than the American Imam.

The Glock dealer would not think to open up a store on the site of a mass murder. Nobody would defend the decency of his decision to do that, including me.

The American Imam, he doesn't have the same decency and respect.

So just how far is the standoff from Ground Zero to the point where you want to afford Americans their constitutional rights?

Just because we have a right to do something ,does not mean that we should do it.

Blaming the innocent in any way whatsoever for 9/11 because the innocent happen to be of the same religion is by definition

bigotry.

 

[Trajan]

That Palin can say crimes begin and end with the criminal and also oppose the NYC mosque is easily explained.

She's an intellectually bankrupt hypocrite who simply mutilates the facts and reason and logic so that it fits her agenda.

In that she's hardly unique.

you are seriously conflating issues so as to create a medium where in she can be made hypocritical, and you're right; thats hardly unique NY CArb.

Look, if you just want to trash her cool, but please, lets not pretend there is any intellectual honesty going on here.

 

[rikules]

than why the outrage over the Mosque at Ground Zero?

of course, this is the hypocritical nonsense that cons use on THIS event...

if a deranged lunatic had killed a tea party candidate then these same cons would be yelling at us that "liberal hate speech is guilty of inciting violence"

the other night I came across 2 different articles from the same on-line blog, the American thinker (right wing site)

the first article (from 3 months ago) was "explaining" to its' deranged minions that liberal hate speech DOES LEAD to violence. They used an example on cape cod where a house was burned and someone spraypainted "death to the rich" on the house

the second article (same blog, but written just after the tuscon murders) explained to their deranged minions that trying to connect conservative speech to the giffords shootings was so stupid that only a hatefilled liberal (who obviously deserves to be shot) would ever make that connection....

2 articles.....2 opposing views....same blog...same conservative readers believing BOTH.
...

 

[rikules]

If the local imam is inciting violence, arranging payment to the families of suicide bombers, and telling people to kill innocents, then he is a criminal too.

Get it?

seems to me the only difference between your example of islamic imams and limbaugh, plain, coulter, malkin beck.....etc...

is the arranging for payments....

 

[Madeline]

For the same reason the local Glock dealer would not open up a store in the same strip mall where 20 people got shot, 6 killed.

It's the decent and respectful thing to do.

Does it hurt your back to twist this way? Didn't you just spend four days complaining that my suggestion that violent rhetoric was bad for us was quashing free speech?

Oh come on Madeline, of all people, YOU should understand this issue.
Here's a question for you:

If someone were to propose tearing down Auschwitz or the Holocaust memorial and replacing it with an "earth-friendly German car dealership"....How would you react?

Come come now...Be truthful.

Seems to me the proper analogy is how would I feel if someone tore down a Burlington Coat Factory and built a House of Worship?

Why wasn't this land "sacred" before the Muslims wanted to build a new mosque? How "sacred" is the land next door, which sports a titty bar?

 

[High_Gravity]

The Pyramids were not built by Muslims and you would be surprised at how many Egyptians could give a fuck less about them.

 

[High_Gravity]

Does it hurt your back to twist this way? Didn't you just spend four days complaining that my suggestion that violent rhetoric was bad for us was quashing free speech?

Oh come on Madeline, of all people, YOU should understand this issue.
Here's a question for you:

If someone were to propose tearing down Auschwitz or the Holocaust memorial and replacing it with an "earth-friendly German car dealership"....How would you react?

Come come now...Be truthful.

Seems to me the proper analogy is how would I feel if someone tore down a Burlington Coat Factory and built a House of Worship?

Why wasn't this land "sacred" before the Muslims wanted to build a new mosque? How "sacred" is the land next door, which sports a titty bar?

Titty bars are sacred ground.

 

[NYcarbineer]

That Palin can say crimes begin and end with the criminal and also oppose the NYC mosque is easily explained.

She's an intellectually bankrupt hypocrite who simply mutilates the facts and reason and logic so that it fits her agenda.

In that she's hardly unique.

you are seriously conflating issues so as to create a medium where in she can be made hypocritical, and you're right; thats hardly unique NY CArb.

Look, if you just want to trash her cool, but please, lets not pretend there is any intellectual honesty going on here.

She's not a hypocrite? Why not?

 

[Talismen]

Does it hurt your back to twist this way? Didn't you just spend four days complaining that my suggestion that violent rhetoric was bad for us was quashing free speech?

Oh come on Madeline, of all people, YOU should understand this issue.
Here's a question for you:

If someone were to propose tearing down Auschwitz or the Holocaust memorial and replacing it with an "earth-friendly German car dealership"....How would you react?

Come come now...Be truthful.

Seems to me the proper analogy is how would I feel if someone tore down a Burlington Coat Factory and built a House of Worship?

Why wasn't this land "sacred" before the Muslims wanted to build a new mosque? How "sacred" is the land next door, which sports a titty bar?

Just as I thought...You're avoiding the question.
I'll ask again, just to watch the next dance you do to avoid it.

If someone were to propose tearing down Auschwitz or the Holocaust memorial and replacing it with an "earth-friendly German car dealership"....How would you react?

This analogy involves land that was not deemed "sacred" before WWII, but now is.
The analogy is appropriate.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Palin said, specifically that journalists and pundits were

"manufacturing a blood libel that serves only to incite the very hatred and violence they purport to condemn."

She is thus stating, unequivocally, her opinion that journalists/pundits CAN in fact incite violence with their words.