If abortions are murder is a dumb question, here is the real question.

[sakinago]

Personally, I define it as when it's able to live outside the womb unaided, which can be as early as 26 weeks gestation.

The key point here is that this is my definition and that I wouldn't demand a law forcing my definition on someone else.

Why is the baby not human before that point? What changes at that point to make the baby human?

no one has ever disagreed that the cells are living human cells.


your hair is living human cells..... your fingernails are living human cells....so is your sperm. And yet.... you kill them all the time by cutting them off form your host body.

Problem with this argument is that fetus is a seperate entity, its own DNA. Kind of hard to compare that to hair (cells?).

 

[sakinago]

If abortions are murder, is a dumb thread because it is using polar logic in an argument of hard to define ethics.

The real question is

Where do you define the beginning of human life?

Is it at conception; Is it just before the 2nd trimester, or the 3rd trimester; Or is it at the moment of birth.

No, that's an even stupider question.

If anyone is having an abortion past the first Trimester, there really is a good medical reason for doing so.

But the Anti-Choice morons will show you a drawing of a D and X, and say, "Hey, that kind of looks like a baby." instead of pointing out that a fetus with Spina Bifida or Brittle Bone or Tay-Sachs or any of the other horrid diseases that trigger an abortion at that stage are truly horrible.

90% of abortions occur in the first trimester, when the fetus is the size of a kidney bean...

According to the pro abortion Guttmacher Institute the main reason women have abortions in the second trimester is they are poor and couldn't get one in the first trimester. If that is a sound medical reason you are the smartest person on the planet.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/j.contraception.2011.10.012.pdf

Very, very hard to get an abortion after 1st trimester, unless for special circumstances. I highly doubt that article, and I would like to know what journal it came from. And abortions should are cheaper and less dangerous the earlier they are.

 

[syrenn]

Why is the baby not human before that point? What changes at that point to make the baby human?

no one has ever disagreed that the cells are living human cells.


your hair is living human cells..... your fingernails are living human cells....so is your sperm. And yet.... you kill them all the time by cutting them off form your host body.

Problem with this argument is that fetus is a seperate entity, its own DNA. Kind of hard to compare that to hair (cells?).

read the convo.


so... if a fetus is a separate entity.... give it birth at 12 weeks. Let it have its separate life of its own.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If abortions are murder, is a dumb thread because it is using polar logic in an argument of hard to define ethics.

The real question is

Where do you define the beginning of human life?

Is it at conception; Is it just before the 2nd trimester, or the 3rd trimester; Or is it at the moment of birth.

If "Abortions are murder" is a dumb question, what language are we conversing in?

or "If Abortions are murder" is a dumb question, what language are we conversing in? either way...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If abortions are murder, is a dumb thread because it is using polar logic in an argument of hard to define ethics.

The real question is

Where do you define the beginning of human life?

Is it at conception; Is it just before the 2nd trimester, or the 3rd trimester; Or is it at the moment of birth.

What does the US Constitution say?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

right....

and is that "live" a viable life ...... of its own?

Define viable.

not needing a host body for survival.


can you take out 16 week old fetal cells..... csection them out just as gently as any birth.... and have those cells live?

give it all the life support known to man..... and will it live? Or does it still need a host human incubator to survive?

How does the fact that the baby needs an incubator prove anything?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No, that's an even stupider question.

If anyone is having an abortion past the first Trimester, there really is a good medical reason for doing so.

But the Anti-Choice morons will show you a drawing of a D and X, and say, "Hey, that kind of looks like a baby." instead of pointing out that a fetus with Spina Bifida or Brittle Bone or Tay-Sachs or any of the other horrid diseases that trigger an abortion at that stage are truly horrible.

90% of abortions occur in the first trimester, when the fetus is the size of a kidney bean...

According to the pro abortion Guttmacher Institute the main reason women have abortions in the second trimester is they are poor and couldn't get one in the first trimester. If that is a sound medical reason you are the smartest person on the planet.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/j.contraception.2011.10.012.pdf

Very, very hard to get an abortion after 1st trimester, unless for special circumstances. I highly doubt that article, and I would like to know what journal it came from. And abortions should are cheaper and less dangerous the earlier they are.

You doubt a study about abortion conducted by Planned Parenthood? What on earth makes you think it is hard to get a second trimester abortion anyway?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If abortions are murder, is a dumb thread because it is using polar logic in an argument of hard to define ethics.

The real question is

Where do you define the beginning of human life?

Is it at conception; Is it just before the 2nd trimester, or the 3rd trimester; Or is it at the moment of birth.

What does the US Constitution say?

What does it say about me killing you?

 

[freedombecki]

The bible says that man becomes a living soul with the first breath. But nobody believes the bible any more.

Ge 2:7* And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Actually that knowledge was refined some time after the Book of Genesis was written and understood for 3,000 years as the truth to believers, ed, as the first man was cast out of Eden for disobedience. Later, King David noted about when substance of a man is known by god as follows:

Psalms 139:
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;[b]
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

 

[syrenn]

Define viable.

not needing a host body for survival.


can you take out 16 week old fetal cells..... csection them out just as gently as any birth.... and have those cells live?

give it all the life support known to man..... and will it live? Or does it still need a host human incubator to survive?

How does the fact that the baby needs an incubator prove anything?

Premature viable babies with even the slighting chance of living....are ALL put in incubators.

Will 12 week old cells make it in standard incubator....or do they still need a human incubator?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

not needing a host body for survival.


can you take out 16 week old fetal cells..... csection them out just as gently as any birth.... and have those cells live?

give it all the life support known to man..... and will it live? Or does it still need a host human incubator to survive?

How does the fact that the baby needs an incubator prove anything?

Premature viable babies with even the slighting chance of living....are ALL put in incubators.

Will 12 week old cells make it in standard incubator....or do they still need a human incubator?

At what point in time? Are you saying that it will always be impossible to take a 12 week old baby and keep it alive outside the mother, because just a few years ago babies who were born at 26 weeks were going to die.

So, what is viable?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

If abortions are murder, is a dumb thread because it is using polar logic in an argument of hard to define ethics.

The real question is

Where do you define the beginning of human life?

Is it at conception; Is it just before the 2nd trimester, or the 3rd trimester; Or is it at the moment of birth.

What does the US Constitution say?

What does it say about me killing you?

If "Abortions are murder" is a dumb question, what language are we conversing in?

If abortions are murder is a dumb question, here is the real question.

Seriously people of USMB, what standards have we left here?



or "If Abortions are murder" is a dumb question, what language are we conversing in? either way...

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

How does the fact that the baby needs an incubator prove anything?

Premature viable babies with even the slighting chance of living....are ALL put in incubators.

Will 12 week old cells make it in standard incubator....or do they still need a human incubator?

At what point in time? Are you saying that it will always be impossible to take a 12 week old baby and keep it alive outside the mother, because just a few years ago babies who were born at 26 weeks were going to die.

So, what is viable?

Fetuses and Babies do NOT pay taxes!!!

 

[syrenn]

How does the fact that the baby needs an incubator prove anything?

Premature viable babies with even the slighting chance of living....are ALL put in incubators.

Will 12 week old cells make it in standard incubator....or do they still need a human incubator?

At what point in time? Are you saying that it will always be impossible to take a 12 week old baby and keep it alive outside the mother, because just a few years ago babies who were born at 26 weeks were going to die.

So, what is viable?

i am not saying that it will not be possible... but at this point in time...it is not.

viable is the ability to be a life all on its own independent of a human womb.

 

[Noomi]

There are some out there on the left who believe life starts when the child becomes aware of his/her own existence, which is roughly 2 years old. Yup, that's right, I just said that there are some out there on the left who believe a mother should be able to abort her 2 year old child.

How freaking sick is that?

I myself believe that life begins at conception. Anything that grows is life, and the moment a child is conceived it starts to grow. Just my opinion and I know others don't think that.

I do not know of any liberal who believes it should be legal to kill a two year old.

If abortions are murder, is a dumb thread because it is using polar logic in an argument of hard to define ethics.

The real question is

Where do you define the beginning of human life?

Is it at conception; Is it just before the 2nd trimester, or the 3rd trimester; Or is it at the moment of birth.

Human life begins at conception.
Personhood begins a birth.

Ooo I like this point. Its debatable, but it makes you think. Do we draw the distinction at personhood or life?

Personhood. Because if we don't, we have to violate the woman's rights in favor of a fetus, and a woman should never be forced to endure an unwanted pregnancy.

Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
God knows our eternal soul from before conception.

So God knows when a woman is going to have sex because he knows the fetus before it has even come into being? That means that God knows a woman is going to be raped, and just sits back and enjoys the show.

Problem is idiots in this country claim it is a woman's right to do with her body what she wants. Lame. What about the fathers or the unborn child's rights? Abortion is murder of child. Not just my opinion.

It is HER body. NOT yours. And there is an entity inside her, sucking her nutrients, affecting her physically. She, and she alone, has the right to decide whether to carry that entity to term.

What the fuck is personhood?

When a baby is given all the legal rights as you or I - which is at birth.

At what point in time? Are you saying that it will always be impossible to take a 12 week old baby and keep it alive outside the mother, because just a few years ago babies who were born at 26 weeks were going to die.

So, what is viable?

Viable means the baby is able to survive outside the womb. It may need medical assistance, but the point is, it does not need to be attached to the woman to survive.

 

[edthecynic]

The bible says that man becomes a living soul with the first breath. But nobody believes the bible any more.

Ge 2:7* And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Actually that knowledge was refined some time after the Book of Genesis was written and understood for 3,000 years as the truth to believers, ed, as the first man was cast out of Eden for disobedience. Later, King David noted about when substance of a man is known by god as follows:

Psalms 139:
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;[b]
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

So we have another vote for life begins BEFORE conception because God is All-Knowing.

 

[Noomi]

The bible says that man becomes a living soul with the first breath. But nobody believes the bible any more.

Ge 2:7* And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Actually that knowledge was refined some time after the Book of Genesis was written and understood for 3,000 years as the truth to believers, ed, as the first man was cast out of Eden for disobedience. Later, King David noted about when substance of a man is known by god as follows:

Psalms 139:
13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;[b]
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

So we have another vote for life begins BEFORE conception because God is All-Knowing.

There are some lifers who think life begins when the woman last had her period. I believe some politician in the US wanted to pass a law saying that a woman was pregnant two weeks before she was pregnant, or some such shit.

 

[kaaazuo]

People are killing people all the time in every shape and form.

 

[Noomi]

People are killing people all the time in every shape and form.

Its only fetuses that people care about, though.

 

[kaaazuo]

People are killing people all the time in every shape and form.

Its only fetuses that people care about, though.

Nobody care about fetuses. We all just don't want people who don't care about fetuses to get us involved with their fetuses killing.