If A Terrorist Group of Mexicans

[Aristotle]

of course that would be stupid since the Arabs want to destroy Israel and could care less about international law.

Every single arab wants to destroy Israel?

Maybe the arabs whose kids were killed maybe...

No every single Arab. But most of them.

Have you read the Islamic Hadith?

Are you a scholar on Islam? Do you read and write arabic?

The Arabs that hate jews are a mixture of people who've lost loved ones and radicals. Since Palestine is of Islamic culture it is easy to indoctrinate people using scripture to validate their hatred. Heck, Jews of Israel do it all the time, its called "Zionism."

 

[Aristotle]

So basically you know jack.

You thought that Israel is all about religion, was turned down by a Rabbi which told you that since you're no Jew there is no reason whatsoever to study Judaism, and based your thinking of listening to the Arab side only.

Yes, as I said before, your opinion is based on ignorance.

You know NOTHING.

Ah yes seeing what you only want to see, such a typical trait that exist in Israel. My opinion is based on a collective experience. I have personal friends who've shared stories of living in Israel. I have seen Jews have this entitlement attitude. I have also read reafings of Jews who feel that Israel does not need America. I have had the unfortunate Rabbi experience and many more.

The only reason why Israel exist is because of the United States. Without U.S intercession, Israel would be at war with not just the Arab countries but also countries the covertly support Arab countries. Israel is not a liked country why don't you understand that? It doesn't matter how much I know about Israel what I do know is I hate the country.

"such a typical trait that exist in Israel" is such and Anti-zionist crap that holds ignorant people.

You have friends, but you have never seen anything with your own eyes, you've read books and magazines, but never experienced on your own flesh.

"It doesn't matter how much I know about Israel what I do know is that I hate the country".

So you admit yourself, you hate something you know nothing about.

It isn't rare, though.

Most haters have the same problem.

I don't need to be present in order to dislike something. People often have misplaced and justified biases. Even if I took a trip to Israel and lived among the people this would not change my opinion. I am very opinionated and I am sure many Jews who are opinionated as I, would be argumentative. You claim that I am ignorant of Israel but you seem to be ignorant of Palestine. You make this judgment that "most Palestinians hate Jews." Do you know most Palestinians? Have you've done some kind of anthropological study to live amongst them and develop a concrete factual belief that "most arabs hate jews?" I think not so if my views are based on ignorance then so is yours because there are tens of millions of arabs in that region and I would believe you hardly know most of them.

 

[Aristotle]

Hamas hides its missile launchers in schools, mosques and hospitals making killing civilians and children unavoidable.

Regardless....So its ok to shoot a missile killing your target and additionally killing someone else.

It is not unavoidable there is a choice. I dont care where hamas hides their weapons dont you guys understand that the more collateral damage you pile up, the more you aid hamas by helping them recruit raging drones.

that is ridiculous. israel has every right to defend itself from rockets. and if hamas doesn't care about it's own people, which, indeed, does violate international law, then it isn't something israel can help.

they're still entitled to get rid of those missiles.

unless you think it's ok for israel to be bombed constantly.

which, and i thank you, proves the double standard of your own biases.

So Israel has a right to send a missile killing innocent civilians? I want to know how this "defensive measure" is morally acceptable.

 

[Aristotle]

Hamas hides its missile launchers in schools, mosques and hospitals making killing civilians and children unavoidable.

Regardless....So its ok to shoot a missile killing your target and additionally killing someone else.

It is not unavoidable there is a choice. I dont care where hamas hides their weapons dont you guys understand that the more collateral damage you pile up, the more you aid hamas by helping them recruit raging drones.

You don't care where Hamas hides missiles?

You're one blinded guy, aren't you! if Hamas hides the missiles inside schools, kindergardens, houses, hospitals, THEY and only THEY are to be blamed if innocent people are killed.

Israel won't sacrifice its own kids in sake of Hamas' hopes that Israel won't strike! That's wicked to put Israel at that position to start with!

Of course I care what any terrorist organization does.....(.However as I believe you've purposefully overlooked this)

I said Israel being militarily superior compared to Hamas and other like militant groups have a moral duty to attack surgically to avoid or at least minimizing non-combatant casualties.

 

[Aristotle]

That's wicked to put Israel at that position to start with!

we're talking about terrorist supporters.

it's not surprising.

Jillian who said anything about supporting terrorist? I support the Arab people's way of life...Ah let me get it, gonna make an anti-semitic (I use this term since Arabs are of semitic lineage) and say all palestinian arabs are hostile terrorist?

 

[auditor0007]

fired over 100 missiles into Texas and California, would there be any doubt that we'd retaliate and hard...and that no one would ever question our right to retaliate?

so...what is it that makes anyone question the obligation of the Israeli government to respond to hundreds of Hamas missiles?

Personally, I think when your people are forced to live in bomb shelters by terrorists, you have an obligation to do what you have to in order to protect your population.

Reminder that this is the Clean Debate Zone and was intentionally placed here so as not to be another ranting and insane israel/pal section thread.

Jillian, I've been trying to tell you for years that you belong to the wrong party. In case you haven't noticed most democrats hate the Country of Israel and all the Jewish people who reside theirin. They favor the side of the terror groups like Hamas and the PLO. So lobbing rockets into Israel is the right thing to do. On the other hand democrats love the Mexicans and wish to erase all borders between the USA and Mexico and they demonize anyone who thinks we should protect our country from millions of illegal invaders. I hope this brings you up to speed. And, secondly, with the drug cartels now in power in Mexico don't think for a moment they wouldn't stoop to firing rockets into Arizona, California, or Texas. It's not a question of it it's a question of when.

Just because somebody says something certainly doesn't make it true. A lot of the crap you spew is just so far out there, it's unbelievable. Of course you can find some Democrats who might be sympathetic to the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank, but the same can be said for Republicans and Independents. As for Americans hating Jews, there are plenty of them out there and they come from all walks of life and political persuasions. You are fooling yourself if you think that as a whole, Democrats do not support Israel.

 

[JoeB131]

fired over 100 missiles into Texas and California, would there be any doubt that we'd retaliate and hard...and that no one would ever question our right to retaliate?

so...what is it that makes anyone question the obligation of the Israeli government to respond to hundreds of Hamas missiles?

Personally, I think when your people are forced to live in bomb shelters by terrorists, you have an obligation to do what you have to in order to protect your population.

Reminder that this is the Clean Debate Zone and was intentionally placed here so as not to be another ranting and insane israel/pal section thread.

And once again, why do the Israelis insist on living in a place where their neighbors want to kill them?

The problem with Israel is that it is predicated on a lie. It was not "A land without a people for a people without a land." There were people living there, for hundreds of years, and they were dispossessed of their land.

Israel can no more expect peace than the Apartheid Botha government could.

 

[sealadaigh]

So basically you know jack.

You thought that Israel is all about religion, was turned down by a Rabbi which told you that since you're no Jew there is no reason whatsoever to study Judaism, and based your thinking of listening to the Arab side only.

Yes, as I said before, your opinion is based on ignorance.

You know NOTHING.

Ah yes seeing what you only want to see, such a typical trait that exist in Israel. My opinion is based on a collective experience. I have personal friends who've shared stories of living in Israel. I have seen Jews have this entitlement attitude. I have also read reafings of Jews who feel that Israel does not need America. I have had the unfortunate Rabbi experience and many more.

The only reason why Israel exist is because of the United States. Without U.S intercession, Israel would be at war with not just the Arab countries but also countries the covertly support Arab countries. Israel is not a liked country why don't you understand that? It doesn't matter how much I know about Israel what I do know is I hate the country.

"such a typical trait that exist in Israel" is such and Anti-zionist crap that holds ignorant people.

You have friends, but you have never seen anything with your own eyes, you've read books and magazines, but never experienced on your own flesh.
"It doesn't matter how much I know about Israel what I do know is that I hate the country".

So you admit yourself, you hate something you know nothing about.

It isn't rare, though.

Most haters have the same problem.

kinda making me think that the holocaust wasn't so bad, now. i mean, i have never seen it with my own eyes or experienced it with my own flesh. does a brief brush with internment count?

are you a holocaust denier? your argument seems designed for one.

 

[jillian]

Ah yes seeing what you only want to see, such a typical trait that exist in Israel. My opinion is based on a collective experience. I have personal friends who've shared stories of living in Israel. I have seen Jews have this entitlement attitude. I have also read reafings of Jews who feel that Israel does not need America. I have had the unfortunate Rabbi experience and many more.

The only reason why Israel exist is because of the United States. Without U.S intercession, Israel would be at war with not just the Arab countries but also countries the covertly support Arab countries. Israel is not a liked country why don't you understand that? It doesn't matter how much I know about Israel what I do know is I hate the country.

"such a typical trait that exist in Israel" is such and Anti-zionist crap that holds ignorant people.

You have friends, but you have never seen anything with your own eyes, you've read books and magazines, but never experienced on your own flesh.
"It doesn't matter how much I know about Israel what I do know is that I hate the country".

So you admit yourself, you hate something you know nothing about.

It isn't rare, though.

Most haters have the same problem.

kinda making me think that the holocaust wasn't so bad, now. i mean, i have never seen it with my own eyes or experienced it with my own flesh. does a brief brush with internment count?

are you a holocaust denier? your argument seems designed for one.

are you and your fellow terrorist supporters intentionally trolling this thread and trying to turn it into the typical nonsense that goes on in the is/pal forum for a reason?

or is it just because you can't get negged? or are you so used to spewing propaganda that you can't engage in the topic at hand... which is why is israel held to a different standard than every other country?

no need to respond... it's rhetorical. but feel free to return to the is/pal threads.

 

[Jroc]

fired over 100 missiles into Texas and California, would there be any doubt that we'd retaliate and hard...and that no one would ever question our right to retaliate?

so...what is it that makes anyone question the obligation of the Israeli government to respond to hundreds of Hamas missiles?

Personally, I think when your people are forced to live in bomb shelters by terrorists, you have an obligation to do what you have to in order to protect your population.

Reminder that this is the Clean Debate Zone and was intentionally placed here so as not to be another ranting and insane israel/pal section thread.

Jillian, I've been trying to tell you for years that you belong to the wrong party. In case you haven't noticed most democrats hate the Country of Israel and all the Jewish people who reside theirin. They favor the side of the terror groups like Hamas and the PLO. So lobbing rockets into Israel is the right thing to do. On the other hand democrats love the Mexicans and wish to erase all borders between the USA and Mexico and they demonize anyone who thinks we should protect our country from millions of illegal invaders. I hope this brings you up to speed. And, secondly, with the drug cartels now in power in Mexico don't think for a moment they wouldn't stoop to firing rockets into Arizona, California, or Texas. It's not a question of it it's a question of when.

Just because somebody says something certainly doesn't make it true. A lot of the crap you spew is just so far out there, it's unbelievable. Of course you can find some Democrats who might be sympathetic to the Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank, but the same can be said for Republicans and Independents. As for Americans hating Jews, there are plenty of them out there and they come from all walks of life and political persuasions. You are fooling yourself if you think that as a whole, Democrats do not support Israel.

whose fooling who?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVBqOELT_J0]Flubbed Jerusalem vote mars Democratic convention - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Lipush]

Here is your evidence.

Look at the place from which they launch their rockets:

Hamas firing rockets from populated area - YouTube

Hamas firing at Israel, from densely populated areas in Gaza - YouTube

Footage Released by Hamas Further Proves It Fires Rockets from Civilian Areas - YouTube

The first and third videos, are obviously military targets. The second video, doesn't show any rockets. None of the videos, show schools, mosque's or hospitals being used. However, the Goldstone Report did find Hamas was deliberately using weapons close to civilian structures. That's one of the things they're guilty of. But it is not as widespread as Israel (and you) want people to believe. In that first video, Israel has a right to strike back at that target. They do not have a right to raze down the entire neighborhood.

If you really want these rocket attacks to end, you're going to have to deal with the issue of why their fired in the first place. And it has nothing to do with judaism.

The reason why they launch rockets is simple: They want to destroy Israel.

They say it out in the open themselves, and that is a fact you cannot deny.

"the Goldstone Report did find Hamas was deliberately using weapons close to civilian structures. That's one of the things they're guilty of."

Whah, did I read right? You actually admitting Hamas are not angels! I didn't think I'll get to live through the day!

and it IS widespreaded. Goldstone report and others don't tell you about it, because Hamas didn't let their people be asked, niether they did investigate their own wrongdoings. That's why Goldstone report can be used as toilet paper and nothing more. Because it's connection to real facts is casual, at best.

 

[Lipush]

Ah yes seeing what you only want to see, such a typical trait that exist in Israel. My opinion is based on a collective experience. I have personal friends who've shared stories of living in Israel. I have seen Jews have this entitlement attitude. I have also read reafings of Jews who feel that Israel does not need America. I have had the unfortunate Rabbi experience and many more.

The only reason why Israel exist is because of the United States. Without U.S intercession, Israel would be at war with not just the Arab countries but also countries the covertly support Arab countries. Israel is not a liked country why don't you understand that? It doesn't matter how much I know about Israel what I do know is I hate the country.

"such a typical trait that exist in Israel" is such and Anti-zionist crap that holds ignorant people.

You have friends, but you have never seen anything with your own eyes, you've read books and magazines, but never experienced on your own flesh.
"It doesn't matter how much I know about Israel what I do know is that I hate the country".

So you admit yourself, you hate something you know nothing about.

It isn't rare, though.

Most haters have the same problem.

kinda making me think that the holocaust wasn't so bad, now. i mean, i have never seen it with my own eyes or experienced it with my own flesh. does a brief brush with internment count?

are you a holocaust denier? your argument seems designed for one.

Since it IS the clean debate zone, I will keep what I really want to say to myself.

I told people before, I do not speak in general, of the Holocaust.

 

[Lipush]

if Hamas hides the missiles inside schools, kindergardens, houses, hospitals, THEY and only THEY are to be blamed if innocent people are killed.

Wrong! You're the one pulling the trigger. You're the one making the decision to fire. As the "occupier", it is your responsibility to take the necessary precautions, to limit civilian casualties.

You can't target hospitals under any condition. They're off limits!

Hospitals are off limits? Tell Hamas not to hide inside them, then! If they do, it means that THEY see it at legitimate! Just like they see Israeli hospitals and kindergartens.

In a normal world, I would have agreed with you. But when they Target civilized areas in Israel from INSIDE civilized areas among THEIR women and children, well, that is not normal.

Why should you people demant special morales from Israel, but never do so with Hamas?

What Have Hamas done, to be deserved to get the softer part of the hand, while the hitting part goes for Israel only?

 

[Lipush]

Every single arab wants to destroy Israel?

Maybe the arabs whose kids were killed maybe...

No every single Arab. But most of them.

Have you read the Islamic Hadith?

Are you a scholar on Islam? Do you read and write arabic?

The Arabs that hate jews are a mixture of people who've lost loved ones and radicals. Since Palestine is of Islamic culture it is easy to indoctrinate people using scripture to validate their hatred. Heck, Jews of Israel do it all the time, its called "Zionism."

"The Arabs that hate jews are a mixture of people who've lost loved ones and radicals"

Nonsense. There are dozens of Millions of Arabs, while Palestinian Arabs, just a few millions. Most of Arab/Muslims who hate Israel and the Jews, probably never met them, or know anything about them.

And you know nothing of Zionism! stop pretending as if you do! you hear of Zionism from the enemies of Israel! and from biased sources! you simply know nothing.

 

[Lipush]

Regardless....So its ok to shoot a missile killing your target and additionally killing someone else.

It is not unavoidable there is a choice. I dont care where hamas hides their weapons dont you guys understand that the more collateral damage you pile up, the more you aid hamas by helping them recruit raging drones.

that is ridiculous. israel has every right to defend itself from rockets. and if hamas doesn't care about it's own people, which, indeed, does violate international law, then it isn't something israel can help.

they're still entitled to get rid of those missiles.

unless you think it's ok for israel to be bombed constantly.

which, and i thank you, proves the double standard of your own biases.

So Israel has a right to send a missile killing innocent civilians? I want to know how this "defensive measure" is morally acceptable.

"So Israel has a right to send a missile killing innocent civilians?"

If you think Palestinians have that right, why not Israel?

 

[MikeK]

[...]

And once again, why do the Israelis insist on living in a place where their neighbors want to kill them?

[...]

This is a very good question considering the fact that alternatives were offered to Jewish refugees, such as the place in British East Africa now known as Kenya. But the Zionists rejected that and insisted on settling in Israel.

 

[Jos]

 

[Lipush]

[...]

And once again, why do the Israelis insist on living in a place where their neighbors want to kill them?

[...]

This is a very good question considering the fact that alternatives were offered to Jewish refugees, such as the place in British East Africa now known as Kenya. But the Zionists rejected that and insisted on settling in Israel.

Because Israel is the homeland of the Jewish nation.

We would not settle for anything else.

To people who have never been persecuted or have any ties to a homeland, it won't matter. one cannot expect you to understand that concept.

 

[Jos]

To people who have never been persecuted or have any ties to a homeland, it won't matter. one cannot expect you to understand that concept.

Does that mean you understand the Palestinian refugees plight?

 

[sealadaigh]

"such a typical trait that exist in Israel" is such and Anti-zionist crap that holds ignorant people.

You have friends, but you have never seen anything with your own eyes, you've read books and magazines, but never experienced on your own flesh.
"It doesn't matter how much I know about Israel what I do know is that I hate the country".

So you admit yourself, you hate something you know nothing about.

It isn't rare, though.

Most haters have the same problem.

kinda making me think that the holocaust wasn't so bad, now. i mean, i have never seen it with my own eyes or experienced it with my own flesh. does a brief brush with internment count?

are you a holocaust denier? your argument seems designed for one.

are you and your fellow terrorist supporters intentionally trolling this thread and trying to turn it into the typical nonsense that goes on in the is/pal forum for a reason?

or is it just because you can't get negged? or are you so used to spewing propaganda that you can't engage in the topic at hand... which is why is israel held to a different standard than every other country?

no need to respond... it's rhetorical. but feel free to return to the is/pal threads.

i, and most of the pro-palestinian poster, eschew "terrorism" in all its forms. we condemn it, but we also try to understand the causes. i, myself , and being irish, do not like the word at all because it is a word that interjects what i think is an inappropriate emotionalism into an argument.

i have no idea what you mean by trolling? my posts, and the pro-palestian posts, have for the most part on topic and on target. i think it is the anti-palestinian/anti-muslim posters who have been the ones who have digressed and indulged a bit in personal attacks.

i think that the reasons these threads fall apart is that the anti-palestinian posters like yourself have very little to offer in the form of an adequate response when people counter their arguments. i think your last sentence demonstrates this perfectly..."no need to respond... it's rhetorical. but feel free to return to the is/pal threads." rhetorical questions are supposed to have obvious answers to all who read or hear them, not just the person asking. the only thing obvious about your questions is that you are angry and, probably, frustrated.

you began this thread with a very bad analogy about a very controversial subject. to expect people in opposition not to respond is a bit preposterous, don't you think?

i know you took a particular delight in "negging" me, but it has not really affected my posts all that much. if anything, it has made me more mellow. an aquantice of yours who also opted out described being out o the rep system as "liberating". that is sort of an odd word to use, actually, and it struck me because a while earlier, another poster had asked me how it was outside the rep system and i told him that i felt "liberated." i'm sorry if it takes away any real or imagined power you may think you have. you can, if you would like, PM me with a nasty comment or two.

why do you assume i hold israel to a different standard? i don't, other than the fact that different countries have different histories and different timelines and exist in different circumstances. i think it is zionists who hold israel to far lower standards than they hold other countries.

i too think that, if you want to discusss israel being held to different standards, perhaps you should have a thread title like "Why Is Israel Held to Different Standards?" instead of something about "Mexican Terrorists" and then, making a poor analogy.

also, if you really did not want this to degenerate onto the kind of thread on the israel/palestine forum, perhaps you should read the first page of this thread at least and try to make an honest determination of where it began to go downhill, or if that is too tedious, read the first three posts.

thank you, jilli, for your input.