If A Terrorist Group of Mexicans

[Lipush]

to your point, which I will adress now

- why does Israel think they can control land that isn't theirs?

which land do you refer to? Gaza? Judea and Samaria? Golan heights? Each and its own problem

- why does Israel think they can get away with assassinating the elected leaders of a sovereign population?

The laws of targeted hits says something very clearly, that it is allowed to hit a man which is an immediate risk to a group, a state or a nation. Since Jahabari was Hamas militant commandor, and was planning terror attacks against Israeli civilians, it was allowed. Also, Jahabri was a military man of Hamas. Not in the head of the govenment of Hamas. two completely different things. He was not elected.

-why does Israel think they can build walls and structures through someone else's property?

Israel built walls to save Israeli life. Or do you think that property is more important than life?

-why is the most militarized country on earth, attacking a population of people that doesn't even have one, nor are they allowed to have weapons to defend themselves?

But they do use weapons. Or what is that killed Israeli civilians through the years? candies?? I think that Israel indeed is an empire in the Mideast when comes to military.
And the funny thing is, that it is also a country which is terrified of using it.

I have a discussion with my father earlier today about exactly that. funny. We waited years for allowing ourselves go on to "pillar of defense" and that was AFTER we ALSO waited years to start "Cast lead" because we were afraid we will have soldiers hurt.

We left Gaza because we didn't want soldiers hurt. We didn't respond to rockets on Sderot because we didn't want soldiers hurt. We didn't enter Gaza by ground 3 weeks ago *because we didn't want soldiers hurt*

So not only Israel is "most militarized country on earth", but it is also the country which FEARS MORE FOR ITS SOLDIERS, THAN ITS CIVILIANS

-why do we keep talking about the rocket attacks as the problem and not the 45 year occupation of Palestinian land and the illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza?

The thread is about the rockets, so there is the answer to your question. 45 years of occupation will easily end once Hamas agrees to accept the state of Israel.

as for me, if you lift your eyes a little up and look right, there, right next to my avatar? There is the LOCATION part. See that? It reads "South Israel".

So while for you, the rocket issue may be unimportant and annoying, to me personally is an everyday issue.

In "Pillar of cloud" a rocket missile hit right next to my grandfathers house. The windows were broken, the open field and walls next to the nearest building ruined, the walls splintered. Only the fact that my grandfather was taken to a safe place saved his life. And he is one of the dearest people to me. Raised me since I was a toddler. If it not for the decision of a half a minute, take him north, I would have lost him. for me that's serious.

a matter of short days after the incident, a Grad rocket fell near my house. There was a wedding in that place. Women. Children. Lucliky, no one was killed, and that is only because they had a shelter. I happen to know their daughter, she was my classmate.

so for me, it is very important.

 

[MikeK]

America supports Israel because it is AMERICAN interest. if it wasn't, you would not have done it.

I asked you to be specific. How is it in America's interest to support Israel? What do we get in return?

And 9/11 was never about Israel. Only liars and fools will tell otherwise.

Really?

I'm sure you've heard of Osama bin Laden:

Bin Laden Says Attack On US Is To Stop Support For Israel, 12-27-01:
=========================

LONDON (Reuters) - Osama bin Laden, the world's most wanted man, said on a video broadcast by al-Jazeera satellite television on Wednesday that the September 11 suicide attacks were intended to stop U.S. support for Israel.

"Our terrorism against the United States is worthy of praise to deter the oppressor so that America stop its support for Israel, which is killing our children," the bearded, Saudi-born fugitive said.

He added that the tape was being issued to mark about three months since the attacks on New York and Washington and two months after the United States began its bombing of Afghan targets.

The remarks indicated the tape was recorded in early to mid December.

Looking tired but calm, bin Laden was dressed in a clean, camouflage-patterned combat jacket. He sat against a cloth or canvas screen, his Russian-designed submachinegun propped beside him. There was no indication where he was when he recorded the video.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Israel: Strategic Ally or Constant Impediment?
-by Prof. Matt Giwer:
October, 2001:
===============
Israel and its supporters have been relentless in repeating the assertion that Israel is a strategic ally of the US. They can rarely make a statement regarding the relationship of the two nations without asserting that as a mantra. Much cynicism has been heaped upon the ally part of that question. Very little has been said on the strategic part. Just what is its strategic value?

As examples of strategic value our bases in Germany, England, Greece, Spain are strategic assets. Even our bases on little Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean are strategic assets. These permit pre-positioning troops, supplies and the hardware of war. The US has no bases in Israel. Given the US bases in Turkey, Greece and Saudi Arabia there is not the slightest need for one in Israel.

With the modern reliance upon air power, passage through friendly air space to get to the enemy in the shortest distance is strategically valuable for many reasons. Israel is land-locked to the North, East and South by nations ranging from unfriendly to hostile making it useless for a US airbase.

If we look back to the Cold War days we do not find a strategic value for Israel. Rather we find a political entity with the military capability to confront Soviet sponsored military expansion in the region. One can argue that was strategic but it was limited to a small part of the Mideast and far from the oil region. With the Cold War over and with a US base in Saudi Arabia in the middle of the oil region Israel cannot be considered of potential, future strategic utility in any sense.

At times the US has considered some countries to be strategic assets such as the Union of South Africa for metals needed for military jet engines and oil in the Mideast today. Israel has no particular mineral assets and certainly no rare ones. It exports no finished products which could be considered necessities for the US.

It is clear by inspection Israel has no strategic value to the US. The territory of Israel is of no value. The mineral assets of Israel are of no value. Its products are of no value. It follows clearly Israel is of no value to the US, strategic or otherwise.

In reviewing the record we find Israel was useless to the US in the Gulf War. We find Israel is useless in this current terrorism war. We can go back further and find it did positive harm to the US with its invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and provoking war with Syria in 1967.

In addition to specific events we find Israel's on-going policies of military occupation, illegal settlement and oppression of Palestinians, even if not one of the causes of the 9/11 attack, certainly pretexts which can be exploited to the benefit of terrorists in recruitment and organization. Israel has not only refused to even slow down these aggressions but insists upon escalating them.

Rather in this present near crisis, Israel has moved to take advantage of the 9/11 attack to exacerbate every detrimental policy. Israel has done everything but give a straight out refusal to cooperate. It has declined every request to cooperate and support the US. Are those the actions of even a friend, much less an ally, much less a strategic ally?

And in making matters worse Israel is directly harming the US effort to establish a coalition. One might even suggest it is deliberately doing so with that as the objective. That Israel would act as it is without fear of US response suggests its Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, truly believed it when he said in the Knesset, "Jews control America" a month after the 9/11 attack.

We cannot find any strategic value of Israel to the US. We do find Israel refusing to act as an ally. We even find Israel believing Jewish Americans are more loyal to Israel than to the US and apparently acting accordingly. These are not the acts of an ally.

As a result of the 9/11 attack the true colors of Israel are being shown to the US. Israel's idea of being an ally is only when it benefits and not if bound to reciprocate. It has the unmitigated gall to impugn the loyalty of Jewish Americans. These are not the acts of an ally but of an enemy.

 

[Billo_Really]

When you speak of "rules", you speak of what, exactly?

International law?

We follow the rules much better than our enemies, in each way you look at it.

Follow the rules?

Is that why you're in violation of over 200 UN resolutions?

Is that why you shoot at Palestinian fisherman and farmers?

Is that why you blow away Palestinian kids playing soccer?

 

[Billo_Really]

to your point, which I will adress now

- why does Israel think they can control land that isn't theirs?

which land do you refer to? Gaza? Judea and Samaria? Golan heights? Each and its own problem

- why does Israel think they can get away with assassinating the elected leaders of a sovereign population?

The laws of targeted hits says something very clearly, that it is allowed to hit a man which is an immediate risk to a group, a state or a nation. Since Jahabari was Hamas militant commandor, and was planning terror attacks against Israeli civilians, it was allowed. Also, Jahabri was a military man of Hamas. Not in the head of the govenment of Hamas. two completely different things. He was not elected.

-why does Israel think they can build walls and structures through someone else's property?

Israel built walls to save Israeli life. Or do you think that property is more important than life?

-why is the most militarized country on earth, attacking a population of people that doesn't even have one, nor are they allowed to have weapons to defend themselves?

But they do use weapons. Or what is that killed Israeli civilians through the years? candies?? I think that Israel indeed is an empire in the Mideast when comes to military.
And the funny thing is, that it is also a country which is terrified of using it.

I have a discussion with my father earlier today about exactly that. funny. We waited years for allowing ourselves go on to "pillar of defense" and that was AFTER we ALSO waited years to start "Cast lead" because we were afraid we will have soldiers hurt.

We left Gaza because we didn't want soldiers hurt. We didn't respond to rockets on Sderot because we didn't want soldiers hurt. We didn't enter Gaza by ground 3 weeks ago *because we didn't want soldiers hurt*

So not only Israel is "most militarized country on earth", but it is also the country which FEARS MORE FOR ITS SOLDIERS, THAN ITS CIVILIANS

-why do we keep talking about the rocket attacks as the problem and not the 45 year occupation of Palestinian land and the illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza?

The thread is about the rockets, so there is the answer to your question. 45 years of occupation will easily end once Hamas agrees to accept the state of Israel.

as for me, if you lift your eyes a little up and look right, there, right next to my avatar? There is the LOCATION part. See that? It reads "South Israel".

So while for you, the rocket issue may be unimportant and annoying, to me personally is an everyday issue.

In "Pillar of cloud" a rocket missile hit right next to my grandfathers house. The windows were broken, the open field and walls next to the nearest building ruined, the walls splintered. Only the fact that my grandfather was taken to a safe place saved his life. And he is one of the dearest people to me. Raised me since I was a toddler. If it not for the decision of a half a minute, take him north, I would have lost him. for me that's serious.

a matter of short days after the incident, a Grad rocket fell near my house. There was a wedding in that place. Women. Children. Lucliky, no one was killed, and that is only because they had a shelter. I happen to know their daughter, she was my classmate.

so for me, it is very important.

I have to go, I'll tear this to shreds later (except the part about your relatives, I too, do not want them harmed).

 

[sakinago]

Yes, they absolutely do, I am not sure how you could deny this statement. And I am not sure how you could blame Israel for firing back. I dont care how progressive you think you are, if someone is shooting rockets on your town and family and kids, anyone, even the Quakers, would scream at their government to obliterate wherever those rockets are coming from.

Here is another question that is in the same sort of moral category, If we knew the intentions of the terrorist who hijacked the planes on 9/11 before they hit the towers, would it be justifiable to shoot those planes down and save 1000's of civililian lives through sacrificing a couple hundred civilians lives?

Good post.

is it justifiable to bomb a mosque with a weapons cache that is filled with hundreds of worshippers when it could just have easily and effectively been bombed in the middle of the night with no one there.

also, there are many, many cases where hospitals and schools are attacked where there is no weapons cache and no real evidence of a weapons cache. now, i do not use the word "terrorism" exxcept on very rare occasions, but that really is ther essence of terrorism to me and it is particularly heinous because it is being done by a supposedly democratic nation.

no. i am not one of those alarmists who will scream "israel is deliberately targeting civilians", although i am sure some individuaal israelis are, but they are showing a comploete disregard for human life in their choice if targets and that, too, defines a war crime.

in vietnam, you could not just aim a claymore across a path with a trip wire and leave it, even though that path was used by bad guys only. you had to be there in case a kid wandered through. an "i am so sorry for this regretable incident" just doesn't cut it.

and that is not a good question of the same moral category. as usual, zionists make up analogies that do not at all fit the situation.

Its funny because they actually have these things flying in the sky, and floating in space that will actually show the people using them exactly where the missiles were shot from. I know what I am saying is outrageous and absurd but it is true! And you cant answer a plausible moral scenario by making up an implausible very vague one. You do realize, and we have seen this many times in Iraq and Afghanistan, that when we take out a group of insurgents like that, their buddies come in and take away the weapons and anything that might link them to being a part of a terrorist faction... then claim that they were innocent civilians...it is a very common tactic thats been around as long as guerrilla warfare has.

 

[Lipush]

America supports Israel because it is AMERICAN interest. if it wasn't, you would not have done it.

I asked you to be specific. How is it in America's interest to support Israel? What do we get in return?

And 9/11 was never about Israel. Only liars and fools will tell otherwise.

Really?

I'm sure you've heard of Osama bin Laden:

Bin Laden Says Attack On US Is To Stop Support For Israel, 12-27-01:
=========================

LONDON (Reuters) - Osama bin Laden, the world's most wanted man, said on a video broadcast by al-Jazeera satellite television on Wednesday that the September 11 suicide attacks were intended to stop U.S. support for Israel.

"Our terrorism against the United States is worthy of praise to deter the oppressor so that America stop its support for Israel, which is killing our children," the bearded, Saudi-born fugitive said.

He added that the tape was being issued to mark about three months since the attacks on New York and Washington and two months after the United States began its bombing of Afghan targets.

The remarks indicated the tape was recorded in early to mid December.

Looking tired but calm, bin Laden was dressed in a clean, camouflage-patterned combat jacket. He sat against a cloth or canvas screen, his Russian-designed submachinegun propped beside him. There was no indication where he was when he recorded the video.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Israel: Strategic Ally or Constant Impediment?
-by Prof. Matt Giwer:
October, 2001:
===============
Israel and its supporters have been relentless in repeating the assertion that Israel is a strategic ally of the US. They can rarely make a statement regarding the relationship of the two nations without asserting that as a mantra. Much cynicism has been heaped upon the ally part of that question. Very little has been said on the strategic part. Just what is its strategic value?

As examples of strategic value our bases in Germany, England, Greece, Spain are strategic assets. Even our bases on little Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean are strategic assets. These permit pre-positioning troops, supplies and the hardware of war. The US has no bases in Israel. Given the US bases in Turkey, Greece and Saudi Arabia there is not the slightest need for one in Israel.

With the modern reliance upon air power, passage through friendly air space to get to the enemy in the shortest distance is strategically valuable for many reasons. Israel is land-locked to the North, East and South by nations ranging from unfriendly to hostile making it useless for a US airbase.

If we look back to the Cold War days we do not find a strategic value for Israel. Rather we find a political entity with the military capability to confront Soviet sponsored military expansion in the region. One can argue that was strategic but it was limited to a small part of the Mideast and far from the oil region. With the Cold War over and with a US base in Saudi Arabia in the middle of the oil region Israel cannot be considered of potential, future strategic utility in any sense.

At times the US has considered some countries to be strategic assets such as the Union of South Africa for metals needed for military jet engines and oil in the Mideast today. Israel has no particular mineral assets and certainly no rare ones. It exports no finished products which could be considered necessities for the US.

It is clear by inspection Israel has no strategic value to the US. The territory of Israel is of no value. The mineral assets of Israel are of no value. Its products are of no value. It follows clearly Israel is of no value to the US, strategic or otherwise.

In reviewing the record we find Israel was useless to the US in the Gulf War. We find Israel is useless in this current terrorism war. We can go back further and find it did positive harm to the US with its invasion of Lebanon in 1982 and provoking war with Syria in 1967.

In addition to specific events we find Israel's on-going policies of military occupation, illegal settlement and oppression of Palestinians, even if not one of the causes of the 9/11 attack, certainly pretexts which can be exploited to the benefit of terrorists in recruitment and organization. Israel has not only refused to even slow down these aggressions but insists upon escalating them.

Rather in this present near crisis, Israel has moved to take advantage of the 9/11 attack to exacerbate every detrimental policy. Israel has done everything but give a straight out refusal to cooperate. It has declined every request to cooperate and support the US. Are those the actions of even a friend, much less an ally, much less a strategic ally?

And in making matters worse Israel is directly harming the US effort to establish a coalition. One might even suggest it is deliberately doing so with that as the objective. That Israel would act as it is without fear of US response suggests its Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, truly believed it when he said in the Knesset, "Jews control America" a month after the 9/11 attack.

We cannot find any strategic value of Israel to the US. We do find Israel refusing to act as an ally. We even find Israel believing Jewish Americans are more loyal to Israel than to the US and apparently acting accordingly. These are not the acts of an ally.

As a result of the 9/11 attack the true colors of Israel are being shown to the US. Israel's idea of being an ally is only when it benefits and not if bound to reciprocate. It has the unmitigated gall to impugn the loyalty of Jewish Americans. These are not the acts of an ally but of an enemy.

Are you aware of WHAT exactly is the Al-Quaeda terror organization? Are you aware that it is not ONLY harming Americans and oter Christians and Jews, but also Muslims?

It is because Its TARGET is to force RADICAL Islam on the world, by killing ANYONE who resiste that.

So saying it is about *Israel*? XXXXXXX

 

[Lipush]

As for your question, how on earth should I know the deep within american interests? You keep saying you're for freedom and Liberalism and liberty and all that, Israel see itself as a free country in the middle of a radical Islami ocean, so you do the math.

I have no idea what the Amercian government does the things it does. We in Israel see what you tell us.

Personally, I cannot WAIT for Israel to stop depending on the Americans so much. I wish we could just get along on our own. That way the Americans could not tell us what to do and not to do, like you guys tried to say in the Arab stpring.

God forbid that happening in Israel.

 

[Lipush]

When you speak of "rules", you speak of what, exactly?

International law?

We follow the rules much better than our enemies, in each way you look at it.

Follow the rules?

Is that why you're in violation of over 200 UN resolutions?

Is that why you shoot at Palestinian fisherman and farmers?

Is that why you blow away Palestinian kids playing soccer?

You say it like we see Palestinian kids playing and think "mmmhm, what will be perfect is a BOMB on them".

Like we wake up saying we would like a Palestinian well-done for lunch.

as I said, let it go, its NOTHING LIKE THAT.

When Hamas does the things he does from civilian population, they cannot count on Israel not to react when ITS civilians are at stake.

 

[JoeB131]

[...]

And once again, why do the Israelis insist on living in a place where their neighbors want to kill them?

[...]

This is a very good question considering the fact that alternatives were offered to Jewish refugees, such as the place in British East Africa now known as Kenya. But the Zionists rejected that and insisted on settling in Israel.

Because Israel is the homeland of the Jewish nation.

We would not settle for anything else.

To people who have never been persecuted or have any ties to a homeland, it won't matter. one cannot expect you to understand that concept.

Except they hadn't lived their in thousands of years. And it's debatable if the Jews of Europe descended from the Hebrews anymore than the Jews of Ethiopia.

 

[Billo_Really]

which land do you refer to? Gaza? Judea and Samaria? Golan heights? Each and its own problem

Gaza and the West Bank.

The laws of targeted hits says something very clearly, that it is allowed to hit a man which is an immediate risk to a group, a state or a nation. Since Jahabari was Hamas militant commandor, and was planning terror attacks against Israeli civilians, it was allowed. Also, Jahabri was a military man of Hamas. Not in the head of the govenment of Hamas. two completely different things. He was not elected.

First off, where are the "laws of targeted hits", codified in international law? Secondly, driving a car down the street, is not an immediate risk to Israel, only to other drivers nearby. Thirdly, he's a member of their elected government and you can't go around shooting anybody you don't like.

Israel built walls to save Israeli life. Or do you think that property is more important than life?

That still doesn't give you the right to build structures on someone else's property. I don't care how many Israeli lives you think you're saving, you can't save them in someone else's country, unless you have an embassy there.

But they do use weapons.

Homemade weapons.

Or what is that killed Israeli civilians through the years? candies??

Friendly fire. Israeli foreign policy. Indescriminant rocket attacks. Old age. Bad Woody Allen movies. Pontius Pilate. St. Paul. (when he was Saul of Tarsus).

I think that Israel indeed is an empire in the Mideast when comes to military.

You can't be a one-state empire, it doesn't work that way.

And the funny thing is, that it is also a country which is terrified of using it.

Oh please, that's like saying Charles Manson is pro-life.

I have a discussion with my father earlier today about exactly that. funny. We waited years for allowing ourselves go on to "pillar of defense" and that was AFTER we ALSO waited years to start "Cast lead" because we were afraid we will have soldiers hurt.

As long as you continue the 45 year occupation and seige on the Gazan economy, it's only a matter of time, before you get the rocket attacks. That's one of the root causes of the attacks in the first place. And until you address that fact, the rocket attacks will keep coming. Get this through your head, you're not going to get your cake and eat it to.

We left Gaza because we didn't want soldiers hurt. We didn't respond to rockets on Sderot because we didn't want soldiers hurt. We didn't enter Gaza by ground 3 weeks ago *because we didn't want soldiers hurt*

Treating everyone in Gaza the same, making no distinction between combatants and non-combatants, is not way to protect soldiers. Eliminating the reason for war, protects soldiers more.

So not only Israel is "most militarized country on earth", but it is also the country which FEARS MORE FOR ITS SOLDIERS, THAN ITS CIVILIANS

That's ass-backwards, when you consider that it's one groups' job, is to protect the other group.

The thread is about the rockets, so there is the answer to your question.

That's right. But you don't live in a vacuum. If X is dependant on Y, you can't talk about eliminating X, without discussing Y.

45 years of occupation will easily end once Hamas agrees to accept the state of Israel.

Why would they do that when Israel refuses to reciprocate?

There you go with that "having your cake..." XXXXXXX

as for me, if you lift your eyes a little up and look right, there, right next to my avatar? There is the LOCATION part. See that? It reads "South Israel".

So while for you, the rocket issue may be unimportant and annoying, to me personally is an everyday issue.

In "Pillar of cloud" a rocket missile hit right next to my grandfathers house. The windows were broken, the open field and walls next to the nearest building ruined, the walls splintered. Only the fact that my grandfather was taken to a safe place saved his life. And he is one of the dearest people to me. Raised me since I was a toddler. If it not for the decision of a half a minute, take him north, I would have lost him. for me that's serious.

a matter of short days after the incident, a Grad rocket fell near my house. There was a wedding in that place. Women. Children. Lucliky, no one was killed, and that is only because they had a shelter. I happen to know their daughter, she was my classmate.

so for me, it is very important.

If you want the rocket attacks to stop, you have to deal with their root causes. But in order to do that, you have to care more about your own family members, than you do making Israel look bad. Kids come first, nation comes second.

That means:

end the occupation
end the Gaza seige
remove the checkpoints in the West Bank
get those lunatic settlers off Palestinian land
stop conducting extra-judicial killings
stop shooting at their fisherman and farmers
stop demonizing their leaders or interfering with their civilian infrastructure​

Do all that and the rocket attacks will stop.

And if they don't, then go in there and nuke the entire area and turn it into a large glowing parking lot.

The main thing is, you're the ones who have to take the first step.

 

[Billo_Really]

You say it like we see Palestinian kids playing and think "mmmhm, what will be perfect is a BOMB on them".

Like we wake up saying we would like a Palestinian well-done for lunch.

as I said, let it go, its NOTHING LIKE THAT.

I'll give you a pass on this one, since its Israel's leaders and IDF commanders who are dictating the rules of engagement. But don't push it. As an Israeli citizen, you're still responsible for the government you elect.

When Hamas does the things he does from civilian population, they cannot count on Israel not to react when ITS civilians are at stake.

Stop trying to blame Hamas for things you do. Blame Hamas for the triggers they pull, not the ones you pull.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Hospitals are off limits? Tell Hamas not to hide inside them, then!

The Goldstone Report found no evidence of this and no one has provided any to date that they do. And if anyone ever did, that would be a war crime charge to Hamas, they'd have to deal with, it doesn't give you the right to declare the hospital a "free-fire zone".
But we're not even going to have this conversation, until you pony up the evidence that they have.

It doesn't mean that at all! It also doesn't absolve Israel's obligations as an occupying power. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Until you provide the evidence, we're not even going to have this conversation.

Are you on crack? They can't "Target" anything. Their rockets have no guidance systems. Their high-tech weapons consist of shooting rockets out of the trunk of their car and their guidance system consists of going home to turn on CNN to see where it landed. That's why their rockets are classified as "indescriminant weapons", which is a war crime. It doesn't matter if they're responding to an earlier Israeli attack, which the majority are, the use of these weapons are illegal.

They live under the same rules Israel does. It's just that Israel follows them less and are more belligerent about their violations. But that's a mute point. Doesn't matter what rules are in place for Israel, they refuse to follow any. Shit, you people won't even take responsibility for the things you do and say.

What Have Hamas done, to be deserved to get the softer part of the hand, while the hitting part goes for Israel only?

They don't get a "softer part of the hand". Stop being so obtuse! You constantly demonize Hamas as the ones who don't want peace, yet its Israel who's always breaking the ceasefires.

If Israel was getting more of the "hitting part", then there would be more discussions on:

• why does Israel think they can control land that isn't theirs?
• why does Israel think they can get away with assassinating the elected leaders of a sovereign population?
• why does Israel think they can build walls and structures through someone else's property?
• why is the most militarized country on earth, attacking a population of people that doesn't even have one, nor are they allowed to have weapons to defend themselves?
• why do we keep talking about the rocket attacks as the problem and not the 45 year occupation of Palestinian land and the illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza?

As far as I'm concernced, there's way too much Israeli ass-kissing going on that I care to stomach. Yet you want people to believe the emperor has new clothes. And I'm going to tell you right now, let this sink in to your little partisan Hebrew brain, write it down for future reference...

"THAT DOG DON'T HUNT!"​

You speak of the Godstone report like of some kind of Bible. Let it go, we all know the Godstone report is trash. Even Goldstone himself admitted it, so why stick to things which have no real ground?

Of course that is not true.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh1be2EX8Ws]Goldstone Reignites Gaza Debate - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Lipush]

The Goldstone Report found no evidence of this and no one has provided any to date that they do. And if anyone ever did, that would be a war crime charge to Hamas, they'd have to deal with, it doesn't give you the right to declare the hospital a "free-fire zone".
But we're not even going to have this conversation, until you pony up the evidence that they have.

It doesn't mean that at all! It also doesn't absolve Israel's obligations as an occupying power. But we'll cross that bridge when we get there. Until you provide the evidence, we're not even going to have this conversation.

Are you on crack? They can't "Target" anything. Their rockets have no guidance systems. Their high-tech weapons consist of shooting rockets out of the trunk of their car and their guidance system consists of going home to turn on CNN to see where it landed. That's why their rockets are classified as "indescriminant weapons", which is a war crime. It doesn't matter if they're responding to an earlier Israeli attack, which the majority are, the use of these weapons are illegal.

They live under the same rules Israel does. It's just that Israel follows them less and are more belligerent about their violations. But that's a mute point. Doesn't matter what rules are in place for Israel, they refuse to follow any. Shit, you people won't even take responsibility for the things you do and say.

They don't get a "softer part of the hand". Stop being so obtuse! You constantly demonize Hamas as the ones who don't want peace, yet its Israel who's always breaking the ceasefires.

If Israel was getting more of the "hitting part", then there would be more discussions on:

• why does Israel think they can control land that isn't theirs?
• why does Israel think they can get away with assassinating the elected leaders of a sovereign population?
• why does Israel think they can build walls and structures through someone else's property?
• why is the most militarized country on earth, attacking a population of people that doesn't even have one, nor are they allowed to have weapons to defend themselves?
• why do we keep talking about the rocket attacks as the problem and not the 45 year occupation of Palestinian land and the illegal and immoral blockade of Gaza?

As far as I'm concernced, there's way too much Israeli ass-kissing going on that I care to stomach. Yet you want people to believe the emperor has new clothes. And I'm going to tell you right now, let this sink in to your little partisan Hebrew brain, write it down for future reference...

"THAT DOG DON'T HUNT!"​

You speak of the Godstone report like of some kind of Bible. Let it go, we all know the Godstone report is trash. Even Goldstone himself admitted it, so why stick to things which have no real ground?

Of course that is not true.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh1be2EX8Ws]Goldstone Reignites Gaza Debate - YouTube[/ame]

Of course it is. Why was Goldstone chosen to make this report anyway?

He's a war-criminal himself.

 

[Lipush]

You say it like we see Palestinian kids playing and think "mmmhm, what will be perfect is a BOMB on them".

Like we wake up saying we would like a Palestinian well-done for lunch.

as I said, let it go, its NOTHING LIKE THAT.

I'll give you a pass on this one, since its Israel's leaders and IDF commanders who are dictating the rules of engagement. But don't push it. As an Israeli citizen, you're still responsible for the government you elect.

When Hamas does the things he does from civilian population, they cannot count on Israel not to react when ITS civilians are at stake.

Stop trying to blame Hamas for things you do. Blame Hamas for the triggers they pull, not the ones you pull.

No, in this case, Hamas is not the one to pull the trigger.

But it is the one to load the gun and point it at the right direction.

 

[Lipush]

You say it like we see Palestinian kids playing and think "mmmhm, what will be perfect is a BOMB on them".

Like we wake up saying we would like a Palestinian well-done for lunch.

as I said, let it go, its NOTHING LIKE THAT.

I'll give you a pass on this one, since its Israel's leaders and IDF commanders who are dictating the rules of engagement. But don't push it. As an Israeli citizen, you're still responsible for the government you elect.

When Hamas does the things he does from civilian population, they cannot count on Israel not to react when ITS civilians are at stake.

Stop trying to blame Hamas for things you do. Blame Hamas for the triggers they pull, not the ones you pull.

So do the Palestinians, when they elect Hamas.

What you say can go both ways.

I mysrlf served in the IDF, I know the system, and I know how it works.

Better than others. So I can tell in your face that the stereotype you live by, in mistaken.

And it IS, just a stereotype.

 

[P F Tinmore]

You speak of the Godstone report like of some kind of Bible. Let it go, we all know the Godstone report is trash. Even Goldstone himself admitted it, so why stick to things which have no real ground?

Of course that is not true.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh1be2EX8Ws]Goldstone Reignites Gaza Debate - YouTube[/ame]

Of course it is. Why was Goldstone chosen to make this report anyway?

He's a war-criminal himself.

WOW, I have never heard of that one before.

But how does that relate to this issue?

 

[Lipush]

Of course that is not true.

Goldstone Reignites Gaza Debate - YouTube

Of course it is. Why was Goldstone chosen to make this report anyway?

He's a war-criminal himself.

WOW, I have never heard of that one before.

But how does that relate to this issue?

It besides the point.

 

[Billo_Really]

No, in this case, Hamas is not the one to pull the trigger.

But it is the one to load the gun and point it at the right direction.

Their guns, not your guns.

 

[editec]

Just to remind some of us?


COLLECTIVE PUNISHMENT is outlawed by international law.

 

[Lipush]

No, in this case, Hamas is not the one to pull the trigger.

But it is the one to load the gun and point it at the right direction.

Their guns, not your guns.

both side's guns

You seem to believe that if they hide behind civilians, they have no responsibility if civilians gets killed on their side.

They have MOST of the responsibility. As I said- they load the gun, the point it at the right direction.

Israel pulls the trigger to protect Israeli children.

Like or not, that is just how it is.