Zone1 If a follower of Judaism simply cannot keep Shabbat, is there a way to make amends?

[rosends]

Nope. A true keeper of Judaism must stone a Sabbath breaker. If nobody stones him, then they're lawbreakers as well.

This is not true. Though the sabbath and new years holiday are almost beginng so I can't go into depth about thus, if you want to understand the problems with your claim, send me a message and I will try to explain next week.

 

[ActionJackson]

This is not true. Though the sabbath and new years holiday are almost beginng so I can't go into depth about thus, if you want to understand the problems with your claim, send me a message and I will try to explain next week.

I have no dog in the fight and don't spend my time worrying about what others do on whatever day they believe the Sabbath is on. I simply based my statement on the following:

Numbers 15:32-36, "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."

 

[Cougarbear]

The Jewish concept of "rest" is not just sitting around. It is a cessation of certain categories of creative acts.

Ya but what about the limitations on how many steps you can take on the Sabbath?

 

[Cougarbear]

try not to experience a SPIRITUAL Breakdown---mr. cougar. The writings of the NT
are just a collection of random opinion texts----edited to CONFORM to the
roman agenda.

 

[Lisa558]

Ya but what about the limitations on how many steps you can take on the Sabbath?

Never heard of such a thing. And I never had any Orthodox Jew mention it, either. They walk FAR to get to shul, too.

 

[rosends]

Ya but what about the limitations on how many steps you can take on the Sabbath?

Not steps - distance from the edge of town as measured in steps.

 

[rosends]

I have no dog in the fight and don't spend my time worrying about what others do on whatever day they believe the Sabbath is on. I simply based my statement on the following:

Numbers 15:32-36, "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.

34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.

35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."

Jewish legal systems go well beyond just what is written in the written Torah text. Witnesses, warnings, cross examining and other things play into it. Executions were rare and the system made it close to impossible to impose them.

 

[Lisa558]

Not steps - distance from the edge of town as measured in steps.

Rosends, and all my fellow Jews on this forum:

L’Shana Tovah!

 

[Cougarbear]

an interesting question ^^^^ from the POV of Judaism as I understand it. One issue
presented by the question is the word "SAVED" ----which I did manage to figure out
over the years sorta means---YOU GET TO GO TO HEAVEN. The concept does not
arise in synagogues or in the books there. ----to cut to the chase---over the years
I have come to understand that the word "FAITH" is all important in Christianity----
and "BELIEF" is the biggie in Islam. It is SO important in both these ideologies
that failure of "FAITH" or "BELIEF" is actually a capital crime in the respective
legal codes, For the record----failure of Belief or Faith is not a capital crime in the
Jewish legal code.

Let me help you here. Faith is simply acknowledging the existence of something. In our discussion, that would be the existence of God. With Judaism, that is Jehovah or whatever the name you give God. With Christianity, it's three fold, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Mainstream Christianity thinks they are all of the same person that magically becomes one of the 3. My belief is that they are 3 distinct persons of one unity of purpose. I'm positive that from Moses to the 800 years later of the most ancient writings of the 5 books of Moses that Moses also knew this as well. That "One" meant on one person but One in Purpose. That was changed as people lost their Faith and religious leaders of Israel became corrupt and controlling by throwing in this mystical magic of basically shape shifting of God. In any event, faith is the acknowledgement of God.

Belief is acting upon our faith. This is where "works" comes into play. The works helps to make a real change in a person which is Belief. How does attending Shabbat change you? Bat Mitsvahs? Other works of faith can strengthen your belief in God. People think "works" is just being a good person or helping the poor and the needy. But, it also requires the ordinances of God as well. When you accept ordinance works, such as Bat Mitzvahs, that strengthens both faith and belief. So, faith without works is dead. In my faith, we look towards the next ordinance to make new covenants with the Lord and our Heavenly Father.

Make a list of all the ordinances and covenants Moses was told to require of the people and then tell me, how many of them do Jews do and keep today? Jeremiah said that there would be a New Covenant in Chapter 31 that he would make with the whole house of Israel. Do you know that Covenant and the associated Ordinance? Jesus gave a New and Everlasting Covenant. To Joseph Smith, he restored that Covenant and included the New and Everlasting Covenant of Marriage. That we can be together as families forever in the Kingdom of God. (Celestial Kingdom) And it all starts with the first principles of the Gospel, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, Repentance, Baptism and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost. The ordinances of Baptism and the Gift of the HG are covenants that we make with the Godhead. Then, in the Temples of the House of the Lord, we are sealed for all time and all eternity as families, husbands and wives by receiving the ordinances of the Priesthood and making new and everlasting covenants with the Lord. Now, what new covenants has the House of Judah (Jews) made since Moses? None that I'm aware of. And you wonder why over and over Jews become wandering the earth without their temple.

 

[Cougarbear]

Never heard of such a thing. And I never had any Orthodox Jew mention it, either. They walk FAR to get to shul, too.

A Jew was permitted to travel 2,000 cubits on the Sabbath (Exod. 16: 29 and Num. 35: 5), about 1.2 km. (¾ mile), and the Mount of Olives was within this distance from Jerusalem (Acts 1: 12).

 

[Cougarbear]

Not steps - distance from the edge of town as measured in steps.

A Jew was permitted to travel 2,000 cubits on the Sabbath (Exod. 16: 29 and Num. 35: 5), about 1.2 km. (¾ mile), and the Mount of Olives was within this distance from Jerusalem (Acts 1: 12).

 

[irosie91]

Never heard of such a thing. And I never had any Orthodox Jew mention it, either. They walk FAR to get to shul, too.

TRAVEL is not allowed----and talmudic discussion being talmudic discussion---there are some diversions into chit chat about number of steps----it is a non-issue but that is the stuff which fascinates islamo nazi pigs

 

[irosie91]

A Jew was permitted to travel 2,000 cubits on the Sabbath (Exod. 16: 29 and Num. 35: 5), about 1.2 km. (¾ mile), and the Mount of Olives was within this distance from Jerusalem (Acts 1: 12).

TRAVEL is not allowed-----as in TRIPS-----the discussion thereof is beyond the
moron's mind

 

[irosie91]

a much more interesting topic-----THE DETAILS OF MORONI's UNDERWEAR

 

[Cougarbear]

TRAVEL is not allowed-----as in TRIPS-----the discussion thereof is beyond the
moron's mind

There's no distinction between the law and covenant Moses made with God. It just says don't plan on going on any long walks today.

 

[irosie91]

There's no distinction between the law and covenant Moses made with God. It just says don't plan on going on any long walks today.

your point? In fact you are right (for a change) ---discussion on DETAIL is what smart
people do in the face of a vague directive.-----like---the very important driving lesson---
"WHAT DISTANCE FROM YOUR HEADLIGHTS to the other guys rear bumper---can be called
TAIL GATING"

 

[BreezeWood]

36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses."

absolutely beyond belief ... and how they whine for themselves.

surly, someday all three desert religions will miraculously - disappear, forever though most likely, sadly - the abominations have a life of their own. like roaches.

 

[BreezeWood]

Executions were rare and the system made it close to impossible to impose them.

you're a joke - the fun part isn't the killing, the enjoyment they receive is the fear they shed over the community ... certainly moses could be seen from miles away - their dark silhouette ...

 

[Cougarbear]

your point? In fact you are right (for a change) ---discussion on DETAIL is what smart
people do in the face of a vague directive.-----like---the very important driving lesson---
"WHAT DISTANCE FROM YOUR HEADLIGHTS to the other guys rear bumper---can be called
TAIL GATING"

You’re amazing! You can go from an ancient commandment to a present day vehicle code violation without skipping a beat

 

[irosie91]

You’re amazing! You can go from an ancient commandment to a present day vehicle code violation without skipping a beat

so far over your head