I thought GM had paid us back Libs, another Obama lie?

[Sallow]

For those keeping score at home, I was actually hoping the government would sponsor an organized wind-down of GM an Chrysler over a long period of time - an orderly selling of assets etc...

And why exactly would they do that..

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

For those keeping score at home, I was actually hoping the government would sponsor an organized wind-down of GM an Chrysler over a long period of time - an orderly selling of assets etc...

And why exactly would they do that..

To provide those assets to companies that can use them more efficiently (by selling them) while proving the shareholders with a fair price for their assets (by winding down over a long period)

 

[JRK]

For those keeping score at home, I was actually hoping the government would sponsor an organized wind-down of GM an Chrysler over a long period of time - an orderly selling of assets etc...

And why exactly would they do that..

To provide those assets to companies that can use them more efficiently (by selling them) while proving the shareholders with a fair price for their assets (by winding down over a long period)

In addition explain to me why GM is any better than Enron or Lehman Brothers?
People failed. If I fail its my place in life to make good, not yours

 

[JRK]

Huh?! Bankruptcy is just the plan to let equity holders off the hook for mistakes.

There are several forms of bankruptcy. The kind being discussed here is where the company assets are liquidated. If not, then why where you whining about how all those jobs would be lost? Of course, all you really care about is whether the UAW union thugs will maintain their stranglehold on the company. You don't give a hoot about jobs, per se.

The main mistake GM made was agreeing to the terms imposed on them by union thugs.

It doesn't matter what type of bankruptcy is used - in the end, it's a way to protect owners personal wealth from the creditors to whom they owe money.

Chapter 7 the first in line are the bond holders
BHOinc made it to where they got robbed, took it to the supreme court where Ginsberg had jurisdiction, thats where it stopped (Chrysler set precedence)
Chrysler sale to Fiat blocked by Ruth Bader Ginsburg [Archive] - GM-Volt: Chevy Volt Forum


PrairiePundit: Obama screws the GM bond holders
The biggest losers here are GM's bondholders. According the Treasury-GM debt-for-equity swap announced Monday, GM has $27.2 billion in unsecured bonds owned by the public. These are owned by mutual funds, pension funds, hedge funds and retail investors who bought them directly through their brokers. Under Monday's offer, they would exchange their $27.2 billion in bonds for 10% of the stock of the restructured GM. This could amount to less than five cents on the dollar.

It does not matter?
an informed voter is Obamas worst night mare

 

[Uncensored2008]

That IS dangerous, our government was never set up to do this type of governing, and gives them waaaaayyyyy tooooo much power if they went down that road.

Isn't that basically the definition of "receivership" The court appoints a trustee to oversee the orderly liquidation of assets and payment of creditors?

 

[Uncensored2008]

No, the most advantageous would have been for the government to stay out of it altogether.

Bankruptcy is one of the primary functions of the federal courts. Liquidation and receivership have to be conducted under the guidance of the federal courts.

if Chrysler had folded, or GM, another company would have purchased any assets of value and employees who were worth having. That's how a free market works. Ford, or Toyota, or whomever would have stepped in to fill the production void left by either of these companies death.

I agree, but receivership would have been the first step.

Chance are that either, and especially GM , would have survived bankruptcy intact.

The UAW wouldn't have, though - which is why Obama stepped in.

 

[JRK]

No, the most advantageous would have been for the government to stay out of it altogether.

Bankruptcy is one of the primary functions of the federal courts. Liquidation and receivership have to be conducted under the guidance of the federal courts.

if Chrysler had folded, or GM, another company would have purchased any assets of value and employees who were worth having. That's how a free market works. Ford, or Toyota, or whomever would have stepped in to fill the production void left by either of these companies death.

I agree, but receivership would have been the first step.

Chance are that either, and especially GM , would have survived bankruptcy intact.

The UAW wouldn't have, though - which is why Obama stepped in.

They would not haved survived
they where done with out tax payers wealth and BHO using it as he pleased after the initial LOAN GWB gave them
General Motors near Chapter 7 Bankruptcy Liquidation « True Discernment
burning cash as U.S. sales slide, is being pushed closer to bankruptcy as it waits to learn whether the auto industry will win a new round of government loans.

Only federal aid can prevent a collapse of the biggest U.S. automaker, analysts including Buckingham Research Group’s Joseph Amaturo said before the shares tumbled today for a fifth straight day. Reorganizing in court protection also may not be possible, because the credit crunch has dried up financing.

“Strategic bankruptcy is not an option for GM,” said Mark Oline, a credit analyst with Fitch Inc. in Chicago. “This is an issue of operating or not operating.”

The prospect of a forced liquidation raises the stakes for GM’s quest for new federal borrowing after saying on Nov. 7 it may run out of operating cash as soon as year’s end. GM had $16.2 billion on hand as of Sept. 30, down from $21 billion at the end of June, and needs $11 billion to pay its monthly bills.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

In addition explain to me why GM is any better than Enron or Lehman Brothers?

Then employ ten times as many people for one thing.

 

[BlindBoo]

And why exactly would they do that..

To provide those assets to companies that can use them more efficiently (by selling them) while proving the shareholders with a fair price for their assets (by winding down over a long period)

In addition explain to me why GM is any better than Enron or Lehman Brothers?
People failed. If I fail its my place in life to make good, not yours

Here is a list of the WWII General Motors War Material Production 1940-45: (This is the best list I could assemble from the contemporary sources at war's end)

198,000 Diesel engines for tanks & landing craft
206,000 Airplane engines
13,000 Complete bombers and fighter planes
97,000 Aircraft propellors
301,000 Aircraft gyroscopes
38,000 Tanks, tank destroyers and armored vehicles
854,000 Trucks, including amhibious DUKWs
190,000 Cannons
1,900,000 Machine guns and submachine guns
3,142,000 Carbines
3,826,000 Electric motors
11,111,000 Fuses
360,000,000 Ball and roller bearings
119,562,000 Shells
39,181,000 Cartridge cases
540,619,000 Grand Total

To this day, the government has not forgotten GM's contribution.

1942, Production Goes to War - Generations of GM

 

[Uncensored2008]

They would not haved survived

I think GM could have survived by defaulting on the UAW pensions, dumping Saturn and GM Trucks and doing a "reset" (Firing all employees and rehiring as non-union.)

 

[Uncensored2008]

Then employ ten times as many people for one thing.

So you agree that this was done purely on behalf of the corrupt UAW, then?

 

[JRK]

To provide those assets to companies that can use them more efficiently (by selling them) while proving the shareholders with a fair price for their assets (by winding down over a long period)

In addition explain to me why GM is any better than Enron or Lehman Brothers?
People failed. If I fail its my place in life to make good, not yours

Here is a list of the WWII General Motors War Material Production 1940-45: (This is the best list I could assemble from the contemporary sources at war's end)

198,000 Diesel engines for tanks & landing craft
206,000 Airplane engines
13,000 Complete bombers and fighter planes
97,000 Aircraft propellors
301,000 Aircraft gyroscopes
38,000 Tanks, tank destroyers and armored vehicles
854,000 Trucks, including amhibious DUKWs
190,000 Cannons
1,900,000 Machine guns and submachine guns
3,142,000 Carbines
3,826,000 Electric motors
11,111,000 Fuses
360,000,000 Ball and roller bearings
119,562,000 Shells
39,181,000 Cartridge cases
540,619,000 Grand Total

To this day, the government has not forgotten GM's contribution.

1942, Production Goes to War - Generations of GM

With respect
to this day the tax payer still pays for it
My issue is with the way this entire event took place
GWB started it, but his was a one time do or die loan
From there it went postal

The lies are so deep with this event, let me add
is this about GM or the UAW?
I love most trade unions
they utilize a 401K type of retirement and they self insure
So am no where near anti union. What the UAW does is not union, there no different than a govt. employee
why dont we save GM and hire labor like Toyota does?

Let me add, This is about legacy cost that have not been changed

 

[JRK]

In addition explain to me why GM is any better than Enron or Lehman Brothers?

Then employ ten times as many people for one thing.

Those jobs were not lost
If GM goes chapter 7, Ford goes, Toyota goes, etc, etc
paying a person to build a Honda in Georgia is not as good as paying legacy cost for a UAW employee in Detroit?
difference is the UAW job at GM and Chrysler is costing the tax payer
the Ford job is not
nor is the non union Honda job

 

[bripat9643]

In addition explain to me why GM is any better than Enron or Lehman Brothers?
People failed. If I fail its my place in life to make good, not yours

Because GM is a union company and the UAW can funnel millions of dollars into the effort to get Obama reelected.

 

[bripat9643]

Here is a list of the WWII General Motors War Material Production 1940-45: (This is the best list I could assemble from the contemporary sources at war's end)

198,000 Diesel engines for tanks & landing craft
206,000 Airplane engines
13,000 Complete bombers and fighter planes
97,000 Aircraft propellors
301,000 Aircraft gyroscopes
38,000 Tanks, tank destroyers and armored vehicles
854,000 Trucks, including amhibious DUKWs
190,000 Cannons
1,900,000 Machine guns and submachine guns
3,142,000 Carbines
3,826,000 Electric motors
11,111,000 Fuses
360,000,000 Ball and roller bearings
119,562,000 Shells
39,181,000 Cartridge cases
540,619,000 Grand Total

To this day, the government has not forgotten GM's contribution.

1942, Production Goes to War - Generations of GM

They got paid for everything they contributed to the war effort. How does that justify soaking the taxpayers for the benefit of overpaid union thugs?

 

[TheBrain]

They didn't survive without handouts.

If GM collapsed, Ford would have gone too.

It's amazing how little some people know how these things work.

Good for me..by the way..I invested in Ford and made a killing..

As did I. So let me get this right you're saying that by giving GM an unfair advantage of Billions in operating capital it helped Ford Survive? Is that really what you're trying to suggest?

Suggest?

That's exactly what happened.

The executive board at Ford would tell you the very same thing.

That WOULD have happened had GM collapsed, but we all know that bankruptcy doesn't mean collapse.

 

[editec]

The US took about 61% of GM's stocks and paid about $50 billion for it

Today's price of GM stock is about $31 per share'

Todays price cap is about $48.49 Billion so today, theoretically the Govs stocks are worth .61x $48.49 Bil = $29.5 Bil.

Not a very good investment but way way WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better the most of the so call bailout "investments" they made to the various Banks, Insurance companiesm hedge funds etc, who were the CAUSE of this crises.

There basically, both Bush II and Obama took on the banksters debts in a series of complex deals where the banks basically get the profits while the government takes on all the risk.


If you want a very clear idea of how much SOCIALISM we gave to the BANKSTERS (and how little we gave to the people who really needed help that were screwed by aforementionsed Banksters), you might consider reading either Stiglet's books "FREEFALL" or Krugman's Book the GREAT UNRAVELING

If those tomes don't thoughly burn your capitalism loving buns, you either have the patience of a saint or you are a Bankster laughing all the way to (and in) the bank.

 

[TheBrain]

The US took about 61% of GM's stocks and paid about $50 billion for it

Today's price of GM stock is about $31 per share'

Todays price cap is about $48.49 Billion so today, theoretically the Govs stocks are worth .61x $48.49 Bil = $29.5 Bil.

Not a very good investment but way way WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better the most of the so call bailout "investments" they made to the various Banks, Insurance companiesm hedge funds etc, who were the CAUSE of this crises.

There basically, both Bush II and Obama took on the banksters debts in a series of complex deals where the banks basically get the profits while the government takes on all the risk.


If you want a very clear idea of how much SOCIALISM we gave to the BANKSTERS (and how little we gave to the people who really needed help that were screwed by aforementionsed Banksters), you might consider reading either Stiglet's books "FREEFALL" or Krugman's Book the GREAT UNRAVELING

If those tomes don't thoughly burn your capitalism loving buns, you either have the patience of a saint or you are a Bankster laughing all the way to (and in) the bank.

AGI is the one that REALLY burned my ass. They should have just said "fuck you, fold"

 

[bripat9643]

The US took about 61% of GM's stocks and paid about $50 billion for it

Today's price of GM stock is about $31 per share'

Todays price cap is about $48.49 Billion so today, theoretically the Govs stocks are worth .61x $48.49 Bil = $29.5 Bil.

Do you actually believe that if the government sold 61% of GM's stock, that it wouldn't affect the price? the price of GM's stock would be zero if the government hadn't purchased so much of it.

Not a very good investment but way way WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better the most of the so call bailout "investments" they made to the various Banks, Insurance companiesm hedge funds etc, who were the CAUSE of this crises.

There basically, both Bush II and Obama took on the banksters debts in a series of complex deals where the banks basically get the profits while the government takes on all the risk.


If you want a very clear idea of how much SOCIALISM we gave to the BANKSTERS (and how little we gave to the people who really needed help that were screwed by aforementionsed Banksters), you might consider reading either Stiglet's books "FREEFALL" or Krugman's Book the GREAT UNRAVELING

If those tomes don't thoughly burn your capitalism loving buns, you either have the patience of a saint or you are a Bankster laughing all the way to (and in) the bank.

What makes you think that the critics of the GM bailout support any other kind of bailout?

 

[Care4all]

What makes you think that the critics of the GM bailout support any other kind of bailout?

well, IF they did not support any other bailout, then these same people bitching here would have created a thousand or 2 more threads on the banks and insurance companies, comparing what they have gotten and what they have paid back etc.....................but nooooooooooooooooo, of course not.....those threads aren't started because there is nothing political for them to gain on starting them, as there is with starting one on gm, who you all on the right, blame all on obama....(even though president bush is the one who got the whole thing rolling on the auto bailout in 2008, and went around congress to do it)