I think the Muslim religion sucks, but this...

[Gunny]

Thanks, I think I will. He's going to win, you know. Even people who don't particularly like him will vote for him because they can't stomach McCain's junk food.

He might. We'll see. Doesn't really matter. I won't vote for him. There are plenty who won't because they can't stomach the pure crap Obama's selling.

Just a matter of where you're POV comes from.

 

[doeton]

IMO, even though most religions suck, you don't treat Americans badly or avoid them because they believe something you don't believe. It makes him look small and cowardly, frankly.

In point of fact, you are off base in your suggestion here.

Obama isn't avoiding muslims because he suffers from your diseased view of their religion. He's avoiding them because PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO SUCH A BELIEF.

Now does that cheapen his whole hope unity them? Yeah it sure does. (gunnyl did a obama supporter just show they aren't wearing cult googles?)

but realistically such prejudices are overcome with baby steps, and i'm willing to accept a realistic practical politician with democratic ideals over a principled but unelected martyr...

 

[Ravi]

If anyone has a pet religion, it's you. I'm not excusing any of them, I think they all suck equally and they all also have things that are good about them. Seeing as I think most humans are good, I think their religions, all of them, were intended for good and do accomplish some good though not enough to convince me they are worthwhile having.
You may think that the Koran advocates worse things than the Bible, (even though the Bible is in the Koran) and that all Muslims obey Sharia law ( if that were true, most of my Muslim friends would be in big trouble) but I think it's just your misplaced anger at the Catholic Church that makes you revile Islam. I wasn't even raised a Christian but as an American, Christianity has had a worse affect on my life than Islam. I'd venture to say it's the same for you.

No, I have not read her entire book but why would reading her book change my mind on whether I think one person's experience of Islam in Somalia makes them the expert on interpreting the Koran? Her father was a Muslim, a communist and opposed to female circumcision and he read the Koran too.

I have no misplaced anger at the Catholic church. But thanks for projecting. One of the interesting things about Islam is that if you renounce it to become an atheist, in the eyes of Islam you are to be killed. I can't think of any Christian religion that advocates that.

This woman was from Somalia but she also lived in several other Arab countries and even in Holland the muslim women aren't free to do as they please...own property, wear what they wish, etc. (unless they basically renounce their religion and/or their families). Even here at the local muslim school the girls are segregated and taught to be subservient. Sweet.

 

[Ravi]

In point of fact, you are off base in your suggestion here.

Obama isn't avoiding muslims because he suffers from your diseased view of their religion. He's avoiding them because PEOPLE LIKE YOU ARE SUSCEPTIBLE TO SUCH A BELIEF.

Now does that cheapen his whole hope unity them? Yeah it sure does. (gunnyl did a obama supporter just show they aren't wearing cult googles?)

but realistically such prejudices are overcome with baby steps, and i'm willing to accept a realistic practical politician with democratic ideals over a principled but unelected martyr...

So he's a racist or a coward? Is that what you mean?

How exactly is my view diseased, btw.

 

[editec]

Yes, I can cook and have a degree in sociology from University of Chicago. I have a couple others, end of discussion on intelligence.

An hopefully an end to your feelings of inadaquacy that prompted you to gratuitously insult me for having the audacity to respond in a way you disapproved of too, right?

So, Obama is reacting to the Republican jerks on his chain? By dissing those that would support him? Perhaps one would do better to question this law review Harvard grad?

Yes, that is exactly what he is doing.

He is playing a defensive game on the Moslim front.

If you were his handler how would you have handled that event?

 

[editec]

Thanks, I think I will. He's going to win, you know. Even people who don't particularly like him will vote for him because they can't stomach McCain's junk food.

That's the main reason I'm planning on voting for him.

he's not my great White Hope, either but he'll have to do until something better comes along.

 

[Anguille]

I have no misplaced anger at the Catholic church. But thanks for projecting. One of the interesting things about Islam is that if you renounce it to become an atheist, in the eyes of Islam you are to be killed. I can't think of any Christian religion that advocates that.

This woman was from Somalia but she also lived in several other Arab countries and even in Holland the muslim women aren't free to do as they please...own property, wear what they wish, etc. (unless they basically renounce their religion and/or their families). Even here at the local muslim school the girls are segregated and taught to be subservient. Sweet.

I knew that bit about misplaced anger would annoy you.
I tossed it in as a back at ya for trying to incite me by claiming I bend over backwards to defend the Muslim religion saying I piss "on Catholics to distract from Islamic atrocities". I'm not trying to distract from anything, I'm pointing out that you have a biased view of Islam.

Hirsi Ali says Islam advocates killing apostates. Other Muslims will disagree with her. In any case there are plenty of ex Muslims still walking around. At one time Christians burned heretics and witches. Maybe the Bible told them to do that, maybe not. You are really trying to make Islam out to be a political movement as if every Muslim was a terrorist at heart.

Doeton brought up an interesting point when she questioned why you denigrate Muslims in one breath and deride Obama for not wanting to associate with them in another.

Muslim women are free to own property in The Netherlands and wear what they wish and they do. Nothing in Dutch law prevents them from doing so. Muslim teenage girls dress like Britney Spears and the only way you know they are a "muslima" as they are called is because of the tiny thong shaped kerchief they wear on their heads but that isn't even a good indicator of religion because it's also a fashion among non Muslim Dutch girls and not all Muslim girls wear it. The state sponsored religious schools are an extemely bad idea in my view. I was surprised when I learned about the system there especially when I heard that even nonMuslim female teachers in the Muslim schools are required to wear head scarves. That is Dutch tolerance gone cuckoo.

 

[Ravi]

I knew that bit about misplaced anger would annoy you.
I tossed it in as a back at ya for trying to incite me by claiming I bend over backwards to defend the Muslim religion saying I piss "on Catholics to distract from Islamic atrocities". I'm not trying to distract from anything, I'm pointing out that you have a biased view of Islam.

Hirsi Ali says Islam advocates killing apostates. Other Muslims will disagree with her. In any case there are plenty of ex Muslims still walking around. At one time Christians burned heretics and witches. Maybe the Bible told them to do that, maybe not. You are really trying to make Islam out to be a political movement as if every Muslim was a terrorist at heart.

Doeton brought up an interesting point when she questioned why you denigrate Muslims in one breath and deride Obama for not wanting to associate with them in another.

Muslim women are free to own property in The Netherlands and wear what they wish and they do. Nothing in Dutch law prevents them from doing so. Muslim teenage girls dress like Britney Spears and the only way you know they are a "muslima" as they are called is because of the tiny thong shaped kerchief they wear on their heads but that isn't even a good indicator of religion because it's also a fashion among non Muslim Dutch girls and not all Muslim girls wear it. The state sponsored religious schools are an extemely bad idea in my view. I was surprised when I learned about the system there especially when I heard that even nonMuslim female teachers in the Muslim schools are required to wear head scarves. That is Dutch tolerance gone cuckoo.

I don't think all Muslims are terrorists. I disliked the religion long before 9/11, back when the Taliban started denying women medical care.

You are correct, nothing in Dutch law prevents them. What prevents them is the brainwashing they receive to be submissive and subservient to the males in their families.

As for Doeton's point (is she a she?) I dislike most religions but at the same time I realize that people have the right to believe what they want to believe. Obama acting that way toward any group of Americans, even evangelicals, is wrong. They are Americans, and until they start acting on their beliefs, they are not to be dissed. IMNSHO. Not to mention it makes him look cowardly.

My bias is based on reality, while yours, no offense, is a mystery. I always find it funny when atheists revile all things Christian yet twist and turn to excuse Muslims.

 

[Anguille]

Now does that cheapen his whole hope unity them? Yeah it sure does. (gunnyl did a obama supporter just show they aren't wearing cult googles?)

I'm glad to hear an Obama supporter say that because sometimes you guys scare me with your hero worship. Much as my opinion of him is lowered every time he shows himself to be a hypocrite over religious matters, there are other good reasons for voting for him and I doubt other people like me will decide not to vote for him because of this. So I suppose he is doing the politically savvy thing in choosing not to be associated with anything remotely connected to terrorism or Louis Farrakan. I want him to be elected so I'll stomach it, but I doubt I'll contribute anything more than my vote.

 

[Jeepers]

Originally Posted by Ravi
You LIKE the muslim religion? Why? As far as I can tell they preach for the destruction of the west and treat women worse than rats. Maybe if they'd throw out the Koran, denounce the serial child abuser Mobombed and get back to their roots...I dunno...I don't see much to like.

Jesus christ there are some idiots here....

Be my guest, Jeepers. Make your case to defend the religion.

Seriously.. would you go to a party step on on a chair and repeat that same comment. You would in a sense be telling everyone that you are an ignorant asshole. Its much easier to hide on a message board and make your stupid comments isnt it...

I will not defend muslims any more than I would defend christians... There is no god and no little fairy tale that you people use to make it through the day. There is only humanity and human ingenuity... I will say though that the amount of devotion that muslims give their religion makes christians look like clowns.... this is taking into account their poplulations as a whole and not just the fringe elements that you base your opinions on...

I'd personally be embarrassed if I were you ravi...

 

[Anguille]

I don't think all Muslims are terrorists. I disliked the religion long before 9/11, back when the Taliban started denying women medical care.

You are correct, nothing in Dutch law prevents them. What prevents them is the brainwashing they receive to be submissive and subservient to the males in their families.

As for Doeton's point (is she a she?) I dislike most religions but at the same time I realize that people have the right to believe what they want to believe. Obama acting that way toward any group of Americans, even evangelicals, is wrong. They are Americans, and until they start acting on their beliefs, they are not to be dissed. IMNSHO. Not to mention it makes him look cowardly.

My bias is based on reality, while yours, no offense, is a mystery. I always find it funny when atheists revile all things Christian yet twist and turn to excuse Muslims.

Once again I do not excuse Muslims. That is your perception. It's like my opinion on gay marriage. I don't think gays or ANYONE should be allowed to marry. Everyone should be treated as an individual in the eyes of the law. But is civil marriage ever likely to be abolished in the US? So, I have to go with saying that if you are going to have the institution of marriage it must not be discriminatory. Same with religions, I wish they would all disappear, but they aren't likely to, at least not in my lifetime so I have to accept them all equally.
Muslims are the underdogs in this country. If I stick up for them it's because they are underdogs not because I think their religion is any less stupid than another. I also don't get why religious people are often so antagonistic towards each other when all religions seem to promote the same thing.

 

[Ravi]

Seriously.. would you go to a party step on on a chair and repeat that same comment. You would in a sense be telling everyone that you are an ignorant asshole. Its much easier to hide on a message board and make your stupid comments isnt it...

I will not defend muslims any more than I would defend christians... There is no god and no little fairy tale that you people use to make it through the day. There is only humanity and human ingenuity... I will say though that the amount of devotion that muslims give their religion makes christians look like clowns.... this is taking into account their poplulations as a whole and not just the fringe elements that you base your opinions on...

I'd personally be embarrassed if I were you ravi...

I guess it's a good thing you aren't me. I asked you a simple question and you can't answer it. And, no, I have no problem saying such things in public. Any religion that treats women in the manner Muslim treats women owes me an explanation, not the reverse.

btw, I don't believe in fairy tales and I'm 99.9% convinced there is no God. So take your high horse and shove it.

 

[Anguille]

I guess it's a good thing you aren't me. I asked you a simple question and you can't answer it. And, no, I have no problem saying such things in public. Any religion that treats women in the manner Muslim treats women owes me an explanation, not the reverse.

btw, I don't believe in fairy tales and I'm 99.9% convinced there is no God. So take your high horse and shove it.

Face it, Rav, when it comes to dogs, religions or whether restaurant employees should be exposed to second hand smoke, you are an ...










...elitist!

 

[editec]

I guess it's a good thing you aren't me. I asked you a simple question and you can't answer it. And, no, I have no problem saying such things in public. Any religion that treats women in the manner Muslim treats women owes me an explanation, not the reverse.

btw, I don't believe in fairy tales and I'm 99.9% convinced there is no God. So take your high horse and shove it.

Owes you an explanation?

Owes you!?

Please explain.

 

[Ravi]

Owes you an explanation?

Owes you!?

Please explain.

I thought I was pretty clear. What part don't you understand?

 

[Ravi]

Face it, Rav, when it comes to dogs, religions or whether restaurant employees should be exposed to second hand smoke, you are an ...










...elitist!

Ha, I see it the other way. Your propensity to make some people more equal than others is Progressive. That's elitist.

 

[busara]

i wonder how many people here have ever met and talked with muslim people.

 

[nomdeplume]

I thought the title of this thread sucked, but then I read the OP's post and figured a sucky title was rather apropos.

 

[Ravi]

i wonder how many people here have ever met and talked with muslim people.

I have in the UK. Mostly the women, I find them fascinating for some reason with their black robes. I always expect them to be more exotic than they are but they end up reminding me of evangelical girls I used to argue religion with, kind of drony and pathetic.

 

[AllieBaba]

Wait, how could Muslims be true Americans if, as you say, they all obey Sharia law and think the Koran is telling them government must be subject to Allah?

They can't, because the teachings of the Koran are in direct conflict with our laws, and freedom, period.